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Eagle1776
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Special Weapon Assets Mortars Question Thu, 30 December 2010 19:22
This question is in reference to page 9 of Winter Wars. I hope this question makes sense. For the anti-tank guns and machine guns, the rules say they "will also" score a hit for a star if they did not move. But the mortars says "may also" fire on a target 4 hexes away, rolling 1 die if it does not move.

2 questions:
1) Is this an additional roll on top of a normal roll?
2) Can the target be less than 4 hexes away? Can't think why you would want to, but can it be in close combat?

The more I think about it, I think the gist is that if you can do a mortar roll anytime if you choose which does not require line of sight. But if you didn't move you have an extra range of one hex?

Thanks for the help!

[Aktualisiert am: Thu, 30 December 2010 19:23]

      
tank commander
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Re:Special Weapon Assets Mortars Question Thu, 30 December 2010 22:31
The way I read it is the mortar 1d attack is in addition to any regular infantry attack (taking into account LOS, range and terrain mods).

I also believe the wording "4 hexes away" should probably be "up to 4 hexes away" although I am not sure on that one.
      
stevens
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Re:Special Weapon Assets Mortars Question Thu, 30 December 2010 23:37
Think of it this way:

If the unit moves and is still able to battle it throws dice at:

3-2-1

If the unit doesn't move it throws dice at:

3-2-1-1

Only RANGE and TERRAIN modifications effect the dice. No LOS for Mortars.

[Aktualisiert am: Thu, 30 December 2010 23:38]

      
sam1812
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Re:Special Weapon Assets Mortars Question Fri, 31 December 2010 00:34
It seems pretty clear to me.

A normal infantry battles 3-2-1.

An Anti-Tank infantry that didn't move on the current turn battles 3-2-1, but it hits armor and other vehicles with tanks, grenades, and stars.

A Mortar infantry that moved this turn battles 3-2-1 as usual, but it ignores LOS.

A Mortar infantry that didn't move this turn battles 3-2-1-1, ignores LOS, and "ignores the terrain battle protections of its target." (The wording here is important. If the unit moved into wire, it would be reduced 1d because of that.)

A Machine Gun infantry that didn't move this turn battles 3-2-1, but it hits infantry with soldiers, grenades, and stars.

[Aktualisiert am: Fri, 31 December 2010 00:34]

      
numquam retro
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Re:Special Weapon Assets Mortars Question Fri, 31 December 2010 10:12
sam1812 schrieb am Fri, 31 December 2010 00:34

It seems pretty clear to me.

A normal infantry battles 3-2-1.

An Anti-Tank infantry that didn't move on the current turn battles 3-2-1, but it hits armor and other vehicles with tanks, grenades, and stars.

A Mortar infantry that moved this turn battles 3-2-1 as usual, but it ignores LOS.

A Mortar infantry that didn't move this turn battles 3-2-1-1, ignores LOS, and "ignores the terrain battle protections of its target." (The wording here is important. If the unit moved into wire, it would be reduced 1d because of that.)

A Machine Gun infantry that didn't move this turn battles 3-2-1, but it hits infantry with soldiers, grenades, and stars.



i agree with sam.
      
stevens
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Re:Special Weapon Assets Mortars Question Fri, 31 December 2010 13:17
I agree Sam has listed it thoroughly.
Ignoring terrain battle protections of its target is critical. It's what makes mortar teams which can get in close, deadly to enemy units hidden in woods, villages and mountains.

Match this unit up with a BEL card and it can do some damage.

p. 42 FAQ
Quote:

Q. Can a Special Weapon Asset (SWA) unit be ordered with Behind Enemy Lines to move up to three hexes and still attack?
A. Yes. In this case, the card overrules the SWA movement limitation and allows a Special Weapon Asset unit to move three
hexes, attack and then move three more hexes. The unit could also move six hexes without attacking.

[Aktualisiert am: Fri, 31 December 2010 15:11]

      
sam1812
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Re:Special Weapon Assets Mortars Question Fri, 31 December 2010 18:07
We were actually typing at the same time, Stevens. BTW, I like your use of the larger font, above and elsewhere. It stands out nicely.
      
stevens
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Re:Special Weapon Assets Mortars Question Fri, 31 December 2010 18:31
Thanks Sam,
I hope you have a Happy New Year and that we can actually meet online.
Smile
      
Eagle1776
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Re:Special Weapon Assets Mortars Question Fri, 31 December 2010 19:22
Thanks all!
      
Turboheizer
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Re:Special Weapon Assets Mortars Question Mon, 31 January 2011 19:29
Speaking of the SWA's, I find it interesting that all of them, including the AT guns, are now represented by badges, although the (early war) AT guns in the MT pack were represented by a bazooka figure. To me, this makes sense, as the bazooka figures are so big that they hardly fit into the same hex with an infantry unit and it is much easier to move just the infantry and the badge. As the badge is the same for late and early war, I now use the badge in all scenarios containing AT guns. By the way, as I understand the introduction of the "AT guns" in the MT rule book, they should correctly be adressed as "AT weapons", because they are not real AT guns (in the sense of the German Pak), but portable rocket propelled grenade launchers as PIAT, Bazooka or Panzerfaust.
      
Sgt Storm
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Re:Special Weapon Assets Mortars Question Mon, 31 January 2011 22:53
I agree the MT figures for AT weapons are pretty big, but I use the occasionally.

I would like to see miniatures for all of the badged figures, including TDs, mortars etc., but I suppose that is not in the cards.
      
Turboheizer
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Re:Special Weapon Assets Mortars Question Tue, 01 February 2011 15:44
Also, as the WW rule book says that late war SWA's should be used in scenarios set after late 1942, shouldn't the scenario rules for the Vercors campaign be altered and the mortars replaced with late war mortars?
      
Sgt Storm
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Re:Special Weapon Assets Mortars Question Tue, 01 February 2011 22:44
Yes. This was discussed in an earlier thread and the conclusion was that any scenario that is "late war" should use these new rules.

http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?goto=197793#msg_197793

Not sure if this was an official ruling from DOW though, but Winter Wars rule book says late war SWAs should be used battles in 1942 and later.
      
50th
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Re:Special Weapon Assets Mortars Question Tue, 01 February 2011 23:45
I have a chart of Winter Wars Swa and Special units available on my user page or here:
http://boardgamegeek.com/file/download/6yatu9ceo7/M44_WW_Uni ts.pdf
Check it out, it has done away with the confusion in my WW games.

      
Ernest_Harmon
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Re:Special Weapon Assets Mortars Question Sat, 19 March 2011 05:00
Adding a question here: what is the starting point for late 1942, to use late war special weapons assets? October? September?
      
Paletti
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Re:Special Weapon Assets Mortars Question Sat, 19 March 2011 09:27
Turboheizer wrote on Mon, 31 January 2011 19:29

To me, this makes sense, as the bazooka figures are so big that they hardly fit into the same hex with an infantry unit and it is much easier to move just the infantry and the badge.


Would it be an option to count the bazooka figure as the 4th infantry figure? You can remove one infantry figure at setup so it wouldn't take up so much space in the hex (bazooka figure + 3 infantry instead of bazooka figure + 4 infantry units). The bazooka figure would be the last figure to take away when removing casualties. I think that this shouldn't be a problem since bazooka figures will always be accompanied by infantry figures (and no armor or artillery), so when a bazooka figure is on it's own it can still be recognized as an anti-tank infantry unit. What do you think?
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Special Weapon Assets Mortars Question Sat, 19 March 2011 09:32
Paletti wrote on Sat, 19 March 2011 12:27

Would it be an option to count the bazooka figure as the 4th infantry figure? You can remove one infantry figure at setup so it wouldn't take up so much space in the hex (bazooka figure + 3 infantry instead of bazooka figure + 4 infantry units). The bazooka figure would be the last figure to take away when removing casualties. I think that this shouldn't be a problem since bazooka figures will always be accompanied by infantry figures (and no armor or artillery), so when a bazooka figure is on it's own it can still be recognized as an anti-tank infantry unit. What do you think?


Sounds like a good plan! Cool
      
Turboheizer
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Re:Special Weapon Assets Mortars Question Sat, 19 March 2011 13:29
Since the AT badges appeared with "Winter Wars", I stopped using the Bazooka miniatures altogether. The badges are much easier to handle and consume less space.
      
Paletti
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Re:Special Weapon Assets Mortars Question Sat, 19 March 2011 17:56
rasmussen81 wrote on Sat, 19 March 2011 09:32


Sounds like a good plan! Cool


No reason anymore to not introduce miniatures for mortars and heavy machine guns Wink
      
sniperscout
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Re:Special Weapon Assets Mortars Question Sun, 20 March 2011 16:03
I agree. It would be great to see figs for mortars and MG's as well as TD's, specific Mobile Arty figs and so on.
      
Maimed1
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Re:Special Weapon Assets Mortars Question Sun, 20 March 2011 16:14
the Germans were very big on MG tactics thru the entirewar... can they be used in the campaign...if they would gain and elite unit?
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Special Weapon Assets Mortars Question Sun, 20 March 2011 19:25
Maimed1 wrote on Sun, 20 March 2011 19:14

the Germans were very big on MG tactics thru the entirewar... can they be used in the campaign...if they would gain and elite unit?


You could add these into your Campaign if you want to! But officially they are not available in the Campaign system at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if someone has allowed people to add Special Weapons units in their own campaigns...

It sounds like a fun idea! Cool
      
    
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