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Quit2
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rules question command cars on 2 sections Sun, 21 October 2012 11:07
A rules question that came up on the french forum:
Q: When a command car is in a hex that belongs in 2 sections (on the red dotted line), can you order an extra unit in both of those sections when playing recon in force or general advance, or do you have to choose one section?

I think this is one that is not clear in the rules, and we might need input from someone at DoW or Richard himself.
      
Almilcar
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Re:rules question command cars on 2 sections Sun, 21 October 2012 12:43
I may probably be totally wrong, but according to the manual:

Equipment Pack @ Page 8


[...] Instead, when a Section card is played in the same section as a Command Car, the player may activate 1 more unit than indicated by his card.



And in view of how the "Gung-Ho!" rule is applied for the US Marines, I think you may only add 1 single extra unit in any of the sections affected by the card.

That is our understanding and how we have it played so far.

But as I said, we may be absolutely wrong.
      
sam1812
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Re:rules question command cars on 2 sections Sun, 21 October 2012 15:33
I agree with Almilcar here. I would use various Overlord rules as my precedents. For purposes of issuing orders, you have to decide which section the unit is in.

And if an Overlord CinC plays Recon-1s in two sections that a Command Car is in, that wouldn't magically allow him two choices out of the discards, either, because any unit can only be ordered once per turn.
      
ad79
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Re:rules question command cars on 2 sections Mon, 22 October 2012 11:12
Ok, this situation in overlord needs to be clarified.

Command Car on intersecting hex between left and center fg.

Left gets a Probe, Center gets a Probe.

Can both order an extra unit, since the Command Car is in both sections and isn't ordered.
      
sam1812
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Re:rules question command cars on 2 sections Mon, 22 October 2012 13:22
That's no different from Marines playing multiple Section cards in OL. The CinC decides which FG gets the extra order.
      
Almilcar
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Re:rules question command cars on 2 sections Mon, 22 October 2012 15:18
ad79 wrote on Mon, 22 October 2012 11:12


Can both order an extra unit, since the Command Car is in both sections and isn't ordered.


Why are we taking the benefits of an unordered unit?

[Aktualisiert am: Mon, 22 October 2012 15:38]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:rules question command cars on 2 sections Mon, 22 October 2012 16:34
Almilcar wrote on Mon, 22 October 2012 17:18

ad79 wrote on Mon, 22 October 2012 11:12


Can both order an extra unit, since the Command Car is in both sections and isn't ordered.


Why are we taking the benefits of an unordered unit?


Because this unit affects the battle without having to be ordered. Smile

I would tend to agree with Sam on this one...it would play exactly like the US Marines.
      
Almilcar
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Re:rules question command cars on 2 sections Mon, 22 October 2012 16:49
rasmussen81 wrote on Mon, 22 October 2012 16:34

Almilcar wrote on Mon, 22 October 2012 17:18

ad79 wrote on Mon, 22 October 2012 11:12


Can both order an extra unit, since the Command Car is in both sections and isn't ordered.


Why are we taking the benefits of an unordered unit?


Because this unit affects the battle without having to be ordered. Smile

I would tend to agree with Sam on this one...it would play exactly like the US Marines.


Ummm... I should have misunderstood the rule for this unit.

I thought that one of the units that should have been ordered is the Command Car itself, and that is what gives you the benefit of ordering an extra unit in the Section affected by the card. This way, ordering the Command Car is free and you can move it freely in the map.

After reading the rule, I never understood that only for the sake of its presence in a specific section, the Command Car would give any benefit, since the benefit is taken in the "Battle Phase" of the Command Car. And a unit cannot battle if was not ordered.

The rule says that "in addition, when a Command Car is ordered by a Recon 1 card, player may take 1 card from the discard pile instead of drawing 2 cards and discarding 1, keeping the election secret to the opponent"

There must be any connotation in the rule we don't understand at all.

[Aktualisiert am: Mon, 22 October 2012 16:57]

      
Sgt Storm
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Re:rules question command cars on 2 sections Mon, 22 October 2012 23:07
The rules are quite clear on whether the command car needs to be ordered:

"Instead, when a Section card is played in the same section as a
Command Car, the player may activate 1 more unit than indicated by
his card. A Command Car does not affect the number of units ordered by a Tactic card."

So no order required for the first part

"In addition, when a Command Car is ordered by the play of a Recon 1 card, its player may choose 1 Command card of his choice from those already in the discard pile, instead of drawing 2 Command cards from the draw pile. The selection of this card remains secret from your opponent."

But order is required for the second benefit.

As for overlord, you guys have that nailed down correctly IMO (only usable in one section).
      
Quit2
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Re:rules question command cars on 2 sections Tue, 23 October 2012 00:51
To bring the conversation back on track: the questionwas about regular board (not overlord) and playing cards like recon in force.

Can an answer be asked from Richard?
I know there seems to be a consensus but the opinion is different from what goes in Battlelore, another game of Richard. There you have a goblin unit which gives a bonus to every unit in the same section as that unit, and when that unit is in 2 sections, all units in BOTH sections get the bonus. The command car mechanic is rather similar to that mechanic, so I wonder if it is the same for split section units.
      
Almilcar
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Re:rules question command cars on 2 sections Tue, 23 October 2012 07:43
Sgt Storm wrote on Mon, 22 October 2012 23:07

The rules are quite clear on whether the command car needs to be ordered:

"Instead, when a Section card is played in the same section as a
Command Car, the player may activate 1 more unit than indicated by his card. A Command Car does not affect the number of units ordered by a Tactic card."

So no order required for the first part


Thanks for clarifying this. I would have never thought there was no need of an order. Since the text you are mentioning is in the "Battle" paragraph, we always thought the CC needed to be ordered.

Thanks again. (************* language!!! Twisted Evil Confused)

Edited as per requested by Rasmussen. My apologies please. Never meant to offend anybody

[Aktualisiert am: Tue, 23 October 2012 08:36]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:rules question command cars on 2 sections Tue, 23 October 2012 08:28
Almilcar wrote on Tue, 23 October 2012 09:43



Thanks again. (***** it with the language!!! Twisted Evil Confused)



Let's avoid 'language' like this. Razz As a family-friendly forum, it's nice that for us to have a place with no swearing of any kind. Smile

Thanks! Cool
      
Almilcar
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Re:rules question command cars on 2 sections Tue, 23 October 2012 08:36
rasmussen81 wrote on Tue, 23 October 2012 08:28

Almilcar wrote on Tue, 23 October 2012 09:43



Thanks again. (***** it with the language!!! Twisted Evil Confused)



Let's avoid 'language' like this. Razz As a family-friendly forum, it's nice that for us to have a place with no swearing of any kind. Smile

Thanks! Cool


Edited as requested . My apologies, please. Never meant to offend anybody. Embarassed
      
rasmussen81
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Re:rules question command cars on 2 sections Tue, 23 October 2012 08:51
Almilcar wrote on Tue, 23 October 2012 10:36

rasmussen81 wrote on Tue, 23 October 2012 08:28

Almilcar wrote on Tue, 23 October 2012 09:43



Thanks again. (***** it with the language!!! Twisted Evil Confused)



Let's avoid 'language' like this. Razz As a family-friendly forum, it's nice that for us to have a place with no swearing of any kind. Smile

Thanks! Cool


Edited as requested . My apologies, please. Never meant to offend anybody. Embarassed


No problem and thanks! It's nice to have a place where I can feel comfortable telling my students (and their parents) that they can go to read more about the games they like...and I know that it won't be a problem for the kids to read the forums.

Thank you for helping keep this such a great community! Very Happy

[Aktualisiert am: Tue, 23 October 2012 09:13]

      
Phread
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Re:rules question command cars on 2 sections Tue, 23 October 2012 11:51
And they can still know that their teacher is still watching. Laughing Laughing Laughing
      
Almilcar
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Re:rules question command cars on 2 sections Tue, 23 October 2012 15:44
Looks like it was very inappropiate the use of that sentence.

I will inflict a self-punishment as soon as possible.

Cheers

[Aktualisiert am: Tue, 23 October 2012 15:44]

      
Lujo
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Re:rules question command cars on 2 sections Tue, 23 October 2012 16:28
Sorry for interrupting you guys, but when we already have this topic here, another similar question occured to me:

If 2 Kuebelwagens appear in the same section, do they add 2 orders? Suppose not, but I don't see that really covered.
      
Sgt Storm
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Re:rules question command cars on 2 sections Tue, 23 October 2012 18:23
Lujo wrote on Tue, 23 October 2012 10:28

Sorry for interrupting you guys, but when we already have this topic here, another similar question occured to me:

If 2 Kuebelwagens appear in the same section, do they add 2 orders? Suppose not, but I don't see that really covered.



There is no official scenario with 2 command cars, so I seriously doubt you'll get an official answer. I think the sensible answer is no. But we can safely leave the explanation to the imaginative scenario designer that first uses 2 command cars.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:rules question command cars on 2 sections Tue, 23 October 2012 19:52
As always, Richard was extremely fast and helpful in his response! Because life got busy, I wasn't able to send this question to him until yesterday and he already got back to me!! Amazing. Cool

The official answer is:

Q. When a command car is in a hex that belongs in 2 sections (on the red dotted line), can you order an extra unit in both of those sections when playing Recon in Force or General Advance, or do you have to choose one section?
A. (RB) When a section card is played in the same section as a Command Car, the player activates 1 more unit than indicated by his card. When the Command Car is on a hex that belongs in 2 sections, and a Recon in Force or General Advance is played, a player must choose which one section the 1 additional unit will be ordered in.


Lujo, just like Sgt Storm said, we will not be getting official answers to hypothetical questions any more. So we'll have to wait until two Command Cars are in an official scenario to get that answered. Until then, people can play that situation however they want. Smile

[Aktualisiert am: Tue, 23 October 2012 19:53]

      
clexton27
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Re:rules question command cars on 2 sections Tue, 23 October 2012 19:54
Merci Ras and Richard!
      
Lujo
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Re:rules question command cars on 2 sections Wed, 24 October 2012 09:38
Wow! This was as expedient as it gets! Smile Thanks Sgt Storm and Rasmussen. I just asked this because there are no less than six Kuebelwagens in EP so I supposed there must be some reason why their number is more than one (although I still don't get why they're more than three?).

[Aktualisiert am: Wed, 24 October 2012 09:39]

      
Quit2
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Re:rules question command cars on 2 sections Wed, 24 October 2012 10:26
To allow the possibility of units of command cards, with more than one figure for each unit. For example: an overlord battle with 2 units of 3 figures of command cars.

They will be hard to kill, but why kill them, it's not like they shoot at your units.
Rolling Eyes
      
red_zebra
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Re:rules question command cars on 2 sections Wed, 24 October 2012 16:22
Quit2 wrote on Wed, 24 October 2012 03:56


They will be hard to kill, but why kill them, it's not like they shoot at your units.
Rolling Eyes


Because the extra unit the order will shoot at my units!!! Mad Very Happy
      
Quit2
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Re:rules question command cars on 2 sections Wed, 24 October 2012 18:02
But if you shot at that extra unit instead, and you eliminated it, it won't shoot at your units ... Wink
      
    
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