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VerfasserThema
Urban breed
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[Beta] AI Sat, 17 May 2014 20:10
Some things: (Even though there are a lot more)

Decline
One thing to note about AI behavior now (even more than before) is that some races or Race/Special Power combos absolutely refuse to go into decline. It would be nice if the AI could at least appear to try to win. Instead they will happily collect 2-4 gold per turn for 5 turns or so.
These are some examples from the last few games we played here:

-Peace Loving Amazons
-Pillaging Humans
-Merchant Orcs
-Forest Pixies
*

They were all three units or fewer (The pixies were down to 2) by turn 4 or 5 and just kept on going. It is worth mentioning that they didn't have much or any of a race in decline either. They were playing to lose.

As a human player wanting to win you leave these races alone on the board as they are harmless and occupy very little space (as opposed to a fresh invading race). Had this been a human player I would not have been able to stop myself from telling that player what he was doing wrong and what he would need to do in order to at least stand a chance to beat me.

Stout: Has anyone ever seen the AI use this Special Power? (and by that I don't mean just picking a Special Power/Race combo that includes Stout.)

Mountains
The AI absolutely loves mountains.
If you are playing a single player game and you want to win, here's my own personal** rule number one: Never set foot on a mountain. If you stay off the mountains and play with a little bit of forethought then you have a guaranteed win. Set foot on a mountain and your units will get attacked.

*(Apparently the option for a numbered list or bullet points isn't working. Very Happy)
**(My wife would argue that rule number one is to never pick the Dwarves as the AI considers them an aberration that needs to be stomped out.)
      
Yann
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Re:[Beta] AI Mon, 19 May 2014 08:43
Are you SURE you are running the Beta? What you are describing are exactly the issues that were fixed in version 2.5! Please go to the main menu and give me the full version number that you see there.

Thanks in advance,

Yann - puzzled
      
relliott
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Re:[Beta] AI Tue, 20 May 2014 05:18
I can confirm these kinds of behaviours in version 2.5.0 Build #1111

I just finished a three-player game where AI Marauding Pixies hung on until they were down to two tokens off-board and had been completely wiped out on-board.

And I agree the AI seems to love mountains and will attack 2 player tokens in the mountains over one in an adjacent forest. Perhaps it's playing the long game.

I've also noticed that the AI seems hell-bent on hunting down Leprechauns, even to the point of making irrational decisions point-wise.

      
relliott
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Re:[Beta] AI Tue, 20 May 2014 08:08
Something else I've noticed:

The AI doesn't seem to treat the Cursed ability properly. It will always take it with only 3 VPs on it, which to me seems like a poor deal.
      
SolusChristusX
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Re:[Beta] AI Tue, 20 May 2014 12:52
I've noticed the same thing: the AI is sometimes far too reluctant to decline. Sometimes it'll run a turn or two of just getting 3-4 points before declining. I'm not sure if this is based on races (I've specifically noticed it with Orcs and with Merchant Trolls) or not.

I was going to file a bug report about this until I saw this thread.

I'm DEFINITELY running the Beta. These issues were still there in version 1115.

[Aktualisiert am: Tue, 20 May 2014 12:53]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:[Beta] AI Tue, 20 May 2014 15:27
SolusChristusX wrote on Tue, 20 May 2014 03:52

I've noticed the same thing: the AI is sometimes far too reluctant to decline. Sometimes it'll run a turn or two of just getting 3-4 points before declining. I'm not sure if this is based on races (I've specifically noticed it with Orcs and with Merchant Trolls) or not.

I was going to file a bug report about this until I saw this thread.

I'm DEFINITELY running the Beta. These issues were still there in version 1115.


You should still file a Bug Report. This thread is a great place to talk about it and discuss it with other players, but the Bug Report is how we get it into the development team system.
      
Holmes108
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Re:[Beta] AI Tue, 20 May 2014 18:31
rasmussen81 wrote on Tue, 20 May 2014 09:27



You should still file a Bug Report. This thread is a great place to talk about it and discuss it with other players, but the Bug Report is how we get it into the development team system.



I've actually been wondering about this, because on the beta info/signup page it says:

"So make sure the matter was not already discussed in this forum before reporting an issue. This will save us time. Make sure you follow all the instructions in the report page to write a "good" bug report."

http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?th=29279&start=0

But I'd assume somebody should be reporting it. After one person has confirmed in the forum they've sent a report, should we not? But rather discuss or confirm the info here?

      
Urban breed
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Re:[Beta] AI Tue, 20 May 2014 23:14
Yann wrote on Mon, 19 May 2014 02:43

Are you SURE you are running the Beta? What you are describing are exactly the issues that were fixed in version 2.5! Please go to the main menu and give me the full version number that you see there.

Thanks in advance,

Yann - puzzled

Sure no problem. Smile
I'm playing 2.5.0 #1111
      
Urban breed
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Re:[Beta] AI Tue, 20 May 2014 23:17
Urban breed wrote on Sat, 17 May 2014 14:10


Stout: Has anyone ever seen the AI use this Special Power? (and by that I don't mean just picking a Special Power/Race combo that includes Stout.)

I'll reply to myself as I finally saw the AI use Stout. On the turn before the last... They lost their in decline race and took a net loss. Very Happy
      
rasmussen81
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Re:[Beta] AI Wed, 21 May 2014 01:36
Holmes108 wrote on Tue, 20 May 2014 09:31

rasmussen81 wrote on Tue, 20 May 2014 09:27



You should still file a Bug Report. This thread is a great place to talk about it and discuss it with other players, but the Bug Report is how we get it into the development team system.



I've actually been wondering about this, because on the beta info/signup page it says:

"So make sure the matter was not already discussed in this forum before reporting an issue. This will save us time. Make sure you follow all the instructions in the report page to write a "good" bug report."

http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?th=29279&start=0

But I'd assume somebody should be reporting it. After one person has confirmed in the forum they've sent a report, should we not? But rather discuss or confirm the info here?


The forums are a great place to discuss the issues we see and make sure that others are having the same problem. Sometimes a beta tester will complain about a problem that the rest of us can fix or explain. For example, someone might be upset that they can't use their Sorcerer ability to convert someone on the Lake region...but we can explain that it's one of the rules, not a bug.

If the issue really is a bug, someone needs to report it but not everyone. If 30 people report the same bug, it means the team has to sift through those 30 reports to make sure they aren't new ones. So if someone has reported the bug, and we don't have anything to add, there's no need to report it again.

I hope this makes things more clear. Smile
      
Holmes108
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Re:[Beta] AI Thu, 22 May 2014 17:30
rasmussen81 wrote on Tue, 20 May 2014 19:36

Holmes108 wrote on Tue, 20 May 2014 09:31

rasmussen81 wrote on Tue, 20 May 2014 09:27



You should still file a Bug Report. This thread is a great place to talk about it and discuss it with other players, but the Bug Report is how we get it into the development team system.



I've actually been wondering about this, because on the beta info/signup page it says:

"So make sure the matter was not already discussed in this forum before reporting an issue. This will save us time. Make sure you follow all the instructions in the report page to write a "good" bug report."

http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?th=29279&start=0

But I'd assume somebody should be reporting it. After one person has confirmed in the forum they've sent a report, should we not? But rather discuss or confirm the info here?


The forums are a great place to discuss the issues we see and make sure that others are having the same problem. Sometimes a beta tester will complain about a problem that the rest of us can fix or explain. For example, someone might be upset that they can't use their Sorcerer ability to convert someone on the Lake region...but we can explain that it's one of the rules, not a bug.

If the issue really is a bug, someone needs to report it but not everyone. If 30 people report the same bug, it means the team has to sift through those 30 reports to make sure they aren't new ones. So if someone has reported the bug, and we don't have anything to add, there's no need to report it again.

I hope this makes things more clear. Smile



Yeah, that makes sense. To make sure it's not fixable, or even already acknowledged by DoW as a known issue.

Thanks.
      
fajean
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Re:[Beta] AI Fri, 23 May 2014 03:30
Just to add some comments...

Gypsies never seem to decline. AI often picks / plays their first race as they would if they had 9 trolls already in decline (Gypsies, Orcs). Bad enough. But if they start losing tokens, they will keep trying. I have seen AI wiped out from the map with a couple of tokens left trying to get a mountain requiring a 2/3 die roll.

AI sure loves the Cursed power in a strange way. It just refuses to let go of a few coins. It seems if they can't make up for the lost coins in a single turn, they will chose those 2 white ladies without a second thought.

On the other hand, pick "Corrupt" or "Pygmies" and you will not be attacked much even in a full map with flying trolls on all mountains.

Picking up the Leprechauns? Good luck! I have seen the AI attack mountains of Leprechauns (4+) just to get that coin. And that was NOT with the dragon. This coins seems to be worth 5.

AI also loves Wealthy and Merchant to an uncanny degree.

I have seen the computer decline (and wipe the previous declined race) on the last turn, several times. It is like the AI does not know there is no other turn.

AI plays Skeletons without paying attention to picking up new Skeletons, even early in the game. Skeletons will never leave the map totally (like Gypsies always do, and Orcs often do).

AI pathetic with Goblins. Does not seem to take into account their bonus on declined tokens at all.

I do confirm an incredible tendency to attack mountains. A single token on the ground is often safer than two tokens on a mountain, unless the AI cannot attach that mountain. Computer will often prefer trying with the die on a mountain rather than picking a well-protected empty territory.

When playing with 3+ AI opponents, do not allow the Sorcerers to be picked by any of them, as the other ones just seem programmed to give away tokens.

It is not realistic expecting AI to play like a skilled human, taking into account the flow of the game and some subtle trade-offs. But some things can be formulated as rules that will prevent obviously bad choices, and some things can be tweaked to avoid excessive tendencies to do specific things.

      
Urban breed
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Re:[Beta] AI Fri, 23 May 2014 18:11
Here's a little peek at a game I played last night.

http://urbanbreed.com/images/smallworld-decline-fail.gif

http://urbanbreed.com/images/smallworld-decline-fail.gif
      
bjhomer
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Re:[Beta] AI Fri, 23 May 2014 20:56
Heh... I just reported a pretty funny AI bug. Here's my report:

Quote:

AI willingly takes turn with 0 coins.

I just finished a 5-player solo game in which I saw the AI do something remarkably dumb.
- Turn 4: Bot took Berserk Ghouls. It got 3 territories. (There may have been coins on the ghouls; I don't remember.)
- Turn 5: Bot goes into decline.
- Turn 6: Bot takes Stout Halflings (with 2 coins on them), then IMMEDIATELY goes into decline, before taking any territories with the Halflings. This also removed the ghouls from the board, which meant that the bot was left with 0 territories that turn.

I was dumbfounded.
      
    
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