Memoir '44 D-Day Landings Memoir '44 D-Day Landings

Forum

Suche
Forum » Shadows over Camelot - English » What handicap do the designers use?
Anzeigen: Heutige Nachrichten 
  
VerfasserThema
travisjhall
Senior Member

Nachrichten: 358
Registriert:
November 2004
What handicap do the designers use? Wed, 27 July 2005 05:34
This is a question for Bruno (and Serge too, if he reads the forum).

Some of my friends and I have quickly gotten good enough at Shadows Over Camelot to want to increase the difficulty (when not playing with certain other players who definitely aren't good enough yet), which we will do by first reducing the odds of playing without a traitor, and then by using the squire rule and/or reducing starting life and/or reducing starting cards. The game is already getting boring due to the lack of challenge, though I'm sure that will change with a few "advanced rules".

This prospect led me to wonder, what rules do the designers themselves use to adjust the difficult of the game? Surely you guys know the game better than we do. What do you have to do to keep it challenging for you?

Thank you again for all your answers, Mr Cathala. It's great to be able to discuss the game with one of the designers.
      
Bruno des Montagnes
Game Designer

Fan-Seite
Nachrichten: 161
Registriert:
February 2003
Re:What handicap do the designers use? Wed, 27 July 2005 09:30
you know, it's a real pleasure to have the opportunity to exchange opinions and experiences around this game with gamers community !!

To answer to your question, i intoduce the new challenge in the following order:
1- Simple squire challenge: all knights start without their specific power (one of the squires gets it at end of a victorious quest)
2- Starting with 1 life point less
3- Starting with 1 or more white card less

If you are really experimented players, and paying with more than 5 players, my advice is to diretly begin with options 1+2. Then, if not sufficient, add option 3

If you only play with 3 or 4 players, maybe have a try just with option 1

happy to read your enthousiasm Very Happy
      
Luke the Flaming
Senior Member

Nachrichten: 270
Registriert:
July 2003
Re:What handicap do the designers use? Wed, 27 July 2005 14:01
I'm not a designer, but a couple of variants to make the game harder we've used are:
-) during setup, put the "Mists of Avalon" card into play (since there's no way to remove it and you can't counter it during the setup, you'll be allowed to lose less Quests);
-) use a "dummy Traitor" (in this case, do NOT deal Loyalty cards; while they're a great idea, we don't like to use them with only 3 players); the "dummy Traitor" has no miniature or cards, it is represented by a Coat-of-Arms (on the "Traiotr" side, of course) and plays after all players (as if an "invisible player" was playing with you, sitting on the right of the starting player).
He simply draws a Black Card (if he draws "Mercenaries" roll a die: odd = Saxons, even = Picts; unless there are 3 miniatures on one of the two Quests, in which case he obviously put there the fourth one!); except that if there are 11 Catapults placed, he adds the last one.
If you want to make him a bit more evil, when you draw the card for him, cover the upper part of the card with your hand: if it is a Black Knigth or Lancelot/Dragon card, put it face DOWN on the appropriate Quest.
If you want to make him more unpredictable, when he must plays, roll a 6-sided die and add the number of Catapults currently around Camelot: if the total is 12 or more, he adds a Catapult; otherwise he draws a Black Card.
Finally, if you want a difficult challenge: after the 6th Sword is laid on the Round table, he also "taunts the knights" in his turn (roll a die to randomly select a knight that must discard a card at random from his hand).

We (3 or 4 players) have combined "early Mists", "Squires with 3 life points" and "dummy Traitor" in variuos ways and while we usually win if using only one of these options, with any two of them things are MUCH harder (never tried - yet - with all three or with more than 4 players).

Have fun! Smile
      
travisjhall
Senior Member

Nachrichten: 358
Registriert:
November 2004
Re:What handicap do the designers use? Thu, 28 July 2005 03:13
Mr Cathala, while your advice is interesting to hear, you have missed my point. I was curious to know what handicaps you personally adopt, when playing with your partner Serge and the elite playtesters with whom you have played SOC over 100 times. Just how good can a team of players get, and how far can the handicaps be pushed while still keeping the game playable?

As for the handicaps we will use, I had already worked out that the order you suggest is probably a good one (though possibly we will start with just increasing the probability of a traitor, as that will add interest as well as challenge). The only reason we haven't started using altered rules yet is because those of us who are good at the game are still playing with one or two people who haven't figured out how to play effectively. I think having a traitor and a player so poor at the game that he is effectively a second traitor would probably be a bit much (especially since we have worked out ways to play to force a traitor to help, lest he give himself away, but those tactics won't work on someone who just plays badly).

BTW, just for a challenge, I tried out the game solo last weekend - just me playing a single loyal knight. It was close, but I eventually won 7-6 by claiming the Grail.
      
Bruno des Montagnes
Game Designer

Fan-Seite
Nachrichten: 161
Registriert:
February 2003
Re:What handicap do the designers use? Thu, 28 July 2005 10:32
My answer was not clear enough, but my advice is also the way i'm playing !! Smile

If we are olny 3 or 4 we use only option 1
If we are 5 to 7, we use option 1+2

luke's ideas are very interesting to increase the challenge !
Beginning directly with mist of avallon is a great idea, i need to try it !!
      
    
Vorheriges Thema:Become Paramides
Nächstes Thema:King Arthur
Gehen Sie zum Forum: