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Dadof8
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Traitor effectiveness Sun, 04 January 2009 07:52
As per my other post, we are pretty new at this game and really haven't explored the traitor much. But, I was reading some other posts discussing the "traitor being obvious" problem.

To me, it seems that if the traitor is obvious, then the other knights will accuse him, they get a white sword and the traitor is fairly useless. I mean, he can take one card and post a seige engine or card. Well, he could have pretty much done this every turn if he was sneaky anyhow. If you are hidden, and played correctly, you can cause all sorts of havoc, especially if you can get to lancelot's armor.

It's just that in my house so far, we pretty much get stomped so being the traitor is well, easy on us. Against skilled players, the traitor must be sneaky or he'd get beat easily.

Thoughts?
      
Sgt Storm
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Re:Traitor effectiveness Sun, 04 January 2009 21:26
The whole point of playing the traitor is to NOT be obvious, otherwise the traitor really isn't doing a good job and should probably lose. So the traitors tactics have to be subtle. IMO, the traitor should gain the trust of the group and then stab them in the back at the right time to cause a major setback that loses the game. (However, I am no expert on playing the traitor properly, so others who have played successfully as traitor more often might have better input.)

If the traitor is revealed, then the point would be to try and recapture what the traitor lost, e.g., nullify that white sword somehow. One thing a known traitor could do is occupy a single knight quest that requires attention and is starting to go badly and play really bad cards. Other than that (and some questionable tactics) I think you are right: the revealed traitor can at best pick the worst evil deed each turn.

[Aktualisiert am: Sun, 04 January 2009 21:27]

      
Hugin
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Re:Traitor effectiveness Sun, 18 January 2009 00:20
I think the traitor's goal isn't to beat the loyal knights at everything, but rather, ensure they don't win enough to gain a victory. The traitor should play at helping out his fellow knight's (though not nearly as effectiently as he would be capable of) when playing in the open, and be counter-productive in the situations where his plays are hidden.
      
boardgamejosh
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Re:Traitor effectiveness Thu, 11 November 2010 22:08
Some strategies that I've seen that worked well included:

- Throw away good cards at Excalibur.
- Act dumb every time you play (then we're used to you being not helpful, even when you're not the traitor)
- Gain trust and convince them that someone else is the traitor - thus costing the team a sword during the accusation. This works best if you can convince someone else to use their Heroic Action on accusing the wrong person. If you do this well enough, you can accuse another one yourself to flip another sword before they catch on to you.

Hope that helps.
      
simplisticton
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Re:Traitor effectiveness Sat, 20 November 2010 20:47
It can be risky as the traitor to throw too many good cards out at Excalibur. If you're playing with 5-7 people, you go through the white deck pretty quickly and a shuffle or two during a game is inevitable. If cards like Heroism, Convocation and Clairvoyance don't come out before the deck is shuffled, that's a good indication you have a traitor in your midst (either he's holding onto the good cards or he disposed of them).

There are also a couple of good tactics to smoke out the traitor with special cards. If the king or the knight with Messenger suspects a particular knight, he can give him a good card (like Heroism) to see if he'll use it at the appropriate time.

Keep track of what special cards people pick up at the end of a successful quest. If they grab a good card and then don't play it appropriately, there's a good chance they're the traitor.
      
boardgamejosh
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Re:Traitor effectiveness Mon, 22 November 2010 20:58
That's a good point. If you play with very observant people, you do have to be much more careful with the special cards. However, if you make yourself look like the most loyal knight possible, it can still be quite effective to turn the other players against each other.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Traitor effectiveness Tue, 23 November 2010 04:17
je14 wrote on Mon, 22 November 2010 23:58

However, if you make yourself look like the most loyal knight possible, it can still be quite effective to turn the other players against each other.


The danger you run (if you're the trator) when you act really loyal is that the game might go too well before anyone turns on anyone else...and by that point you might have waited too long. Razz
      
boardgamejosh
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Re:Traitor effectiveness Tue, 23 November 2010 17:57
That's why you have to start planting seeds of discord early. And if all else fails, you can always use your heroic action to accuse someone else (thus flipping a sword to black), even though at that point you've basically given away that you are the traitor and they'll be able to accuse you and get a white sword.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Traitor effectiveness Wed, 24 November 2010 08:53
je14 wrote on Tue, 23 November 2010 20:57

That's why you have to start planting seeds of discord early. And if all else fails, you can always use your heroic action to accuse someone else (thus flipping a sword to black), even though at that point you've basically given away that you are the traitor and they'll be able to accuse you and get a white sword.


It's true that once you accuse another player, you're most likely revealing that you're the trator...but if you can make a strong case against the person and then act genuinely surprised when they turn out not to be the trator, you might be able to delay the return accusation!

Such a fun game! Very Happy
      
redsavina
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Re:Traitor effectiveness Sat, 12 November 2011 16:22
I have played Shadows with the expansion 3 times so far. Once I was the traitor and was able to upset the knights to force a loss for them. I have been thinking about how to more effectively play this role in the future. Here are two ideas I am exploring for our gaming session tonight.

1. Go totally covert and try to make it to the end of the game to flip 2 white swords to black for the win. With this strategy you cannot raise suspicion that you are a traitor but you are also trusting that the knights will not acquire more than 8 white swords by the end of the game (or 9 white swords if there are 2 traitors who make it to the end undiscovered). This can be a viable strategy especially if the covert traitor(s) can make a few slight moves which result in a couple black swords.

2. The traitor goes all out at the start of the game to thwart a couple quests before there are 6 white swords or 6 siege cannons. Since you cannon make accusations until one of these conditions are met the traitor can openly force progression of evil as a knight and possibly create a couple of lost quests. This might prompt the other knights to push siege cannons but you can remove a couple before they get to 6the or you can wait for them to get to 6, push the 7th on your next turn and then they are 5 away from failure early in the game.

Once you are discovered you should be doing one of 2 approaches.

1. Pulling cards from knights who are trying to complete a quest to frustrate the possibility of completion and pushing siege engines to force a loss in this way if the knights cannot keep up in removing as many as you place each round.

2. Pulling cards from knights who are trying to complete a quest to frustrate the possibility of completion and pushing the black cards, especially if they have already completed the holy grail and Excalibur quests. Pushing black cards at this point will force siege engines, as well as advance the black knight, Lancelot / dragon quests.

Can't wait to play tonight. Hope I get to play the traitor...

[Aktualisiert am: Sat, 12 November 2011 16:24]

      
    
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