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Asgharoth
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Sat, 02 November 2013 16:41
I heard that in decline ghouls cannot conquer seas anymore. They still hold ones they had but cant get any new
      
masterdruid817
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Sat, 02 November 2013 17:17
I believe that is correct.
      
*player38092
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Sat, 02 November 2013 17:27
Asgharoth écrit le Sat, 02 November 2013 16:41

I heard that in decline ghouls cannot conquer seas anymore. They still hold ones they had but cant get any new

No race can normally conquer seas anyway - unless it has the seafaring power (which is lost when going into decline).
      
masterdruid817
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Sun, 03 November 2013 16:58
Alright, I never fully understood this situation:
Say that I am in a 4 player game with dragon master sorcerers. (Let's say that I'm facing against skeletons, halflings, and elves.) I smash through the skeleton's defenses and zap one of their single token spots into a sorcerer. Now assuming I haven't zapped any halflings or elves, and there are two more available single token skeleton regions, can I zap both of those regions into sorcerers and not zap any halflings or elves that turn? Confused
      
masterdruid817
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Sun, 03 November 2013 16:59
Robin wrote on Sat, 02 November 2013 12:27

Asgharoth écrit le Sat, 02 November 2013 16:41

I heard that in decline ghouls cannot conquer seas anymore. They still hold ones they had but cant get any new

No race can normally conquer seas anyway - unless it has the seafaring power (which is lost when going into decline).


I would assume that he means ghouls with seafaring.
      
*player38092
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Sun, 03 November 2013 17:06
masterdruid817 écrit le Sun, 03 November 2013 16:58

Alright, I never fully understood this situation:
Say that I am in a 4 player game with dragon master sorcerers. (Let's say that I'm facing against skeletons, halflings, and elves.) I smash through the skeleton's defenses and zap one of their single token spots into a sorcerer. Now assuming I haven't zapped any halflings or elves, and there are two more available single token skeleton regions, can I zap both of those regions into sorcerers and not zap any halflings or elves that turn? Confused
Sorcerers may convert one of each active race per turn.
Elves and Halfings thus can be "zapped". Muahahaaaa !
      
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Sun, 03 November 2013 18:28
Robin wrote on Sun, 03 November 2013 10:06

masterdruid817 écrit le Sun, 03 November 2013 16:58

Alright, I never fully understood this situation:
Say that I am in a 4 player game with dragon master sorcerers. (Let's say that I'm facing against skeletons, halflings, and elves.) I smash through the skeleton's defenses and zap one of their single token spots into a sorcerer. Now assuming I haven't zapped any halflings or elves, and there are two more available single token skeleton regions, can I zap both of those regions into sorcerers and not zap any halflings or elves that turn? Confused
Sorcerers may convert one of each active race per turn.
Elves and Halfings thus can be "zapped". Muahahaaaa !



More simply answered, no you may not.
      
blaxnlion
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Sun, 03 November 2013 20:12
Robin wrote on Sat, 02 November 2013 17:27

Asgharoth écrit le Sat, 02 November 2013 16:41

I heard that in decline ghouls cannot conquer seas anymore. They still hold ones they had but cant get any new

No race can normally conquer seas anyway - unless it has the seafaring power (which is lost when going into decline).



The Seafaring power is one of the few that isn't lost in decline, so I would say that Seafaring Ghouls in decline can conquer water regions as well as any other.
      
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Sun, 03 November 2013 21:09
blaxnlion wrote on Sun, 03 November 2013 23:12

Robin wrote on Sat, 02 November 2013 17:27

Asgharoth écrit le Sat, 02 November 2013 16:41

I heard that in decline ghouls cannot conquer seas anymore. They still hold ones they had but cant get any new

No race can normally conquer seas anyway - unless it has the seafaring power (which is lost when going into decline).



The Seafaring power is one of the few that isn't lost in decline, so I would say that Seafaring Ghouls in decline can conquer water regions as well as any other.


Ghouls can't conquer any new water regions because the rules clearly say (in the PDF rules found here on the web site) that Active Races can conquer water regions. In-Decline Ghouls might act like active races, but they are most definitely In-Decline! They cannot attack any new regions in water.

[Aktualisiert am: Mon, 04 November 2013 16:00]

      
masterdruid817
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Mon, 04 November 2013 15:27
Jabooty_3 wrote on Sun, 03 November 2013 12:28

Robin wrote on Sun, 03 November 2013 10:06

masterdruid817 écrit le Sun, 03 November 2013 16:58

Alright, I never fully understood this situation:
Say that I am in a 4 player game with dragon master sorcerers. (Let's say that I'm facing against skeletons, halflings, and elves.) I smash through the skeleton's defenses and zap one of their single token spots into a sorcerer. Now assuming I haven't zapped any halflings or elves, and there are two more available single token skeleton regions, can I zap both of those regions into sorcerers and not zap any halflings or elves that turn? Confused
Sorcerers may convert one of each active race per turn.
Elves and Halfings thus can be "zapped". Muahahaaaa !



More simply answered, no you may not.


Well, my ruling was right and my deviousness was wrong. Luckily I went with my ruling.
      
trah.dahc
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  Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Tue, 24 December 2013 04:53
So we played our first game last night. One of the questions that came up that I could not find in the rules was: When you choose a new race (after one has gone into decline) dose your new race need to enter the board on a side closet to you? (similar to original deployment?)

Also can I expect the same amazing level of box control from all Days of Wonder games?
      
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Tue, 24 December 2013 05:25
trah.dahc wrote on Tue, 24 December 2013 07:53

So we played our first game last night. One of the questions that came up that I could not find in the rules was: When you choose a new race (after one has gone into decline) dose your new race need to enter the board on a side closet to you? (similar to original deployment?)

Also can I expect the same amazing level of box control from all Days of Wonder games?


I'll answer the last question first...I'm not sure what you mean by "Box Control" but all Days of Wonder games are amazing and have very useful box inserts.

Now to the question about bringing a new race onto the board. There is no rule that says which part of the map you have to enter from...the only rule is that you have to attack from the edge of the map. But that edge could be anywhere on the map.

Your new race does not need to enter the map next to your In Decline race, but does still need to attack a region that borders the edge of the map (or next to the sea regions).

I hope this helps. Smile
      
AlberethZA
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Sat, 28 December 2013 08:20
MrLefty wrote on Sat, 23 May 2009 18:56

sctooker wrote on Sun, 24 May 2009 01:59


The key is in the definition of Flying, which allows you to ignore adjacency requirements for attacking. If you have Flying you don't need to be adjacent to the space you are using your power on, so you could come on the board by swapping out a token.



I think they're making it unnecessarily complicated. To make it work thematically they should define "adjacent" so that it includes
- any territory your race can attack on the board by virtue of a special power (flying, underground etc)
- any territory on the border of the board, if you have no active race on the board already.

I don't see why the border attack at the start of the active race's time on the board should be considered any different to any normal attack - it's not "special", it's just the way that everyone starts. Thematically, the border spaces are "adjacent" to the outside, where the new race comes from.

Commandos get to use their special attack when they enter; why not sorcerers? I don't think that would unbalance anything.


Sorry. Late to the party.

Flying Sorcerers being able to swop out a piece as its first play is ridiculous. There is no reference pint from which adjacency is determined. There are no Sorcerer pieces on the board. Flying makes the regions 'adjacent' but adjacent implies at least two things.

Commando is about the attacking ability. Not a reference point.

[Aktualisiert am: Sat, 28 December 2013 11:24]

      
blaxnlion
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Mon, 30 December 2013 22:24
Here a question that came into my mind a few seconds ago :

For the Mercenary power, if it is your last conquest, I assume you can pay a VP to reduce the cost of the attack by 2, but if this still doesn't enable you to have enough tokens for your conquest ? So if that happens :

- you pay a VP
- you roll the dice and get 0, and your conquest is failed

Is the VP lost anyway ? I guess it is, but still... Worth asking.

And for the power Hordes of : once I got some race with it. My sister took one of my regions where there was none of the two. My question is : do you have to lose a token from the lost region, or can you dispose of the Hordes of token from another region so that you can save a regular race token for when you go into decline ? Same thing for when you go into decline, if you where not cautious and left one or the two tokens in one region with no regular race token along, do you "lose" this region ?

And I recently asked whether Seafaring Ghouls in decline could conquer Water regions or not. It is said no in the first messages, but someone told me the opposite afterwards. So ?
      
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Mon, 30 December 2013 22:42
blaxnlion wrote on Tue, 31 December 2013 01:24

Here a question that came into my mind a few seconds ago :

For the Mercenary power, if it is your last conquest, I assume you can pay a VP to reduce the cost of the attack by 2, but if this still doesn't enable you to have enough tokens for your conquest ? So if that happens :

- you pay a VP
- you roll the dice and get 0, and your conquest is failed

Is the VP lost anyway ? I guess it is, but still... Worth asking.


You still lose the coin, because you already payed it out. You don't wait to see the result of the roll before paying! Smile

Quote:

And for the power Hordes of : once I got some race with it. My sister took one of my regions where there was none of the two. My question is : do you have to lose a token from the lost region, or can you dispose of the Hordes of token from another region so that you can save a regular race token for when you go into decline ? Same thing for when you go into decline, if you where not cautious and left one or the two tokens in one region with no regular race token along, do you "lose" this region ?


If we take the computer version as an example you can not switch out Hordes of tokens for any others. It also makes sense with the rules since they are treated exactly like normal tokens, and not just "extra". So in your example, it's a good idea for your sister to target regions without your Hordes of tokens...and when you go In Decline, you definitely lose the regions (and can't exchange the tokens for others before going in decline)

Quote:

And I recently asked whether Seafaring Ghouls in decline could conquer Water regions or not. It is said no in the first messages, but someone told me the opposite afterwards. So ?


You definitely cannot keep conquering water with In Decline Ghouls.

I hope this helps. Cool
      
blaxnlion
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Tue, 31 December 2013 00:15
rasmussen81 wrote on Mon, 30 December 2013 22:42

blaxnlion wrote on Tue, 31 December 2013 01:24

Here a question that came into my mind a few seconds ago :

For the Mercenary power, if it is your last conquest, I assume you can pay a VP to reduce the cost of the attack by 2, but if this still doesn't enable you to have enough tokens for your conquest ? So if that happens :

- you pay a VP
- you roll the dice and get 0, and your conquest is failed

Is the VP lost anyway ? I guess it is, but still... Worth asking.


You still lose the coin, because you already payed it out. You don't wait to see the result of the roll before paying! Smile

Quote:

And for the power Hordes of : once I got some race with it. My sister took one of my regions where there was none of the two. My question is : do you have to lose a token from the lost region, or can you dispose of the Hordes of token from another region so that you can save a regular race token for when you go into decline ? Same thing for when you go into decline, if you where not cautious and left one or the two tokens in one region with no regular race token along, do you "lose" this region ?


If we take the computer version as an example you can not switch out Hordes of tokens for any others. It also makes sense with the rules since they are treated exactly like normal tokens, and not just "extra". So in your example, it's a good idea for your sister to target regions without your Hordes of tokens...and when you go In Decline, you definitely lose the regions (and can't exchange the tokens for others before going in decline)

Quote:

And I recently asked whether Seafaring Ghouls in decline could conquer Water regions or not. It is said no in the first messages, but someone told me the opposite afterwards. So ?


You definitely cannot keep conquering water with In Decline Ghouls.

I hope this helps. Cool



Shocked But... you were the one that told me one could ! Laughing

Seriously, I don't see why they can't. By basing oneself on the iPad version, perhaps, but this version has shown at least once to have unfair set rules, like for the Pygmies vs Sorcerers that can have Pygmies back whereas Elves can't. Seafaring Ghouls in decline are still Seafaring Ghouls, right ? So they should be allowed to carry on conquering Water regions;
      
DAC cazaron
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Tue, 31 December 2013 06:43
When Seafaring Ghouls go in Decline, they lose their Seafaring power. Any existing Sea Ghouls remain, but they can't conquer other sea regions because they no longer have the Seafaring power.
      
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Tue, 31 December 2013 08:00
blaxnlion wrote on Tue, 31 December 2013 03:15


Quote:

Quote:

And I recently asked whether Seafaring Ghouls in decline could conquer Water regions or not. It is said no in the first messages, but someone told me the opposite afterwards. So ?


You definitely cannot keep conquering water with In Decline Ghouls.

I hope this helps. Cool



Shocked But... you were the one that told me one could ! Laughing


Did you ever look back at the earlier posts about this!? About 5 posts up, I answered this question already...here's the quote:

rasmussen81 wrote on Mon, 04 November 2013 00:09

blaxnlion wrote on Sun, 03 November 2013 23:12

Robin wrote on Sat, 02 November 2013 17:27

Asgharoth écrit le Sat, 02 November 2013 16:41

I heard that in decline ghouls cannot conquer seas anymore. They still hold ones they had but cant get any new

No race can normally conquer seas anyway - unless it has the seafaring power (which is lost when going into decline).



The Seafaring power is one of the few that isn't lost in decline, so I would say that Seafaring Ghouls in decline can conquer water regions as well as any other.


Ghouls can't conquer any new water regions because the rules clearly say (in the PDF rules found here on the web site) that Active Races can conquer water regions. In-Decline Ghouls might act like active races, but they are most definitely In-Decline! They cannot attack any new regions in water.


If I remember right, my initial answer was that the Ghouls could keep using the Seafaring, but once I checked the rules again it was quite clear that they cannot.

Quote:

Seriously, I don't see why they can't. By basing oneself on the iPad version, perhaps, but this version has shown at least once to have unfair set rules, like for the Pygmies vs Sorcerers that can have Pygmies back whereas Elves can't. Seafaring Ghouls in decline are still Seafaring Ghouls, right ? So they should be allowed to carry on conquering Water regions;


At home, you can play however you want to with your game. But the rules are that only Active races can use the Seafaring ability. In Decline Ghouls are not active and cannot use the ability.

[Aktualisiert am: Tue, 31 December 2013 08:02]

      
blaxnlion
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Tue, 31 December 2013 10:24
rasmussen81 wrote on Tue, 31 December 2013 08:00

blaxnlion wrote on Tue, 31 December 2013 03:15


Quote:

Quote:

And I recently asked whether Seafaring Ghouls in decline could conquer Water regions or not. It is said no in the first messages, but someone told me the opposite afterwards. So ?


You definitely cannot keep conquering water with In Decline Ghouls.

I hope this helps. Cool



Shocked But... you were the one that told me one could ! Laughing


Did you ever look back at the earlier posts about this!? About 5 posts up, I answered this question already...here's the quote:

rasmussen81 wrote on Mon, 04 November 2013 00:09

blaxnlion wrote on Sun, 03 November 2013 23:12

Robin wrote on Sat, 02 November 2013 17:27

Asgharoth écrit le Sat, 02 November 2013 16:41

I heard that in decline ghouls cannot conquer seas anymore. They still hold ones they had but cant get any new

No race can normally conquer seas anyway - unless it has the seafaring power (which is lost when going into decline).



The Seafaring power is one of the few that isn't lost in decline, so I would say that Seafaring Ghouls in decline can conquer water regions as well as any other.


Ghouls can't conquer any new water regions because the rules clearly say (in the PDF rules found here on the web site) that Active Races can conquer water regions. In-Decline Ghouls might act like active races, but they are most definitely In-Decline! They cannot attack any new regions in water.


If I remember right, my initial answer was that the Ghouls could keep using the Seafaring, but once I checked the rules again it was quite clear that they cannot.

Quote:

Seriously, I don't see why they can't. By basing oneself on the iPad version, perhaps, but this version has shown at least once to have unfair set rules, like for the Pygmies vs Sorcerers that can have Pygmies back whereas Elves can't. Seafaring Ghouls in decline are still Seafaring Ghouls, right ? So they should be allowed to carry on conquering Water regions;


At home, you can play however you want to with your game. But the rules are that only Active races can use the Seafaring ability. In Decline Ghouls are not active and cannot use the ability.


Hey, you didn't have to take it that seriously Wink I was just kidding... I looked at all the posts and I didn't remember such post of yours, but whatever.

EDIT : I am applying my rule at home, for the Seafaring Ghouls. You guys can think whatever you want, but if I base myself on what's strictly written, it is :

- in-decline Ghouls act exactly like an active race
- the Seafaring power description never stated in-decline Ghouls can't conquer Water regions anymore. If it was forbidden, then they should have written that down, as both are from the initial game. Plus, in the French version it says "You can consider the Seas and the Lake like three empty regions and conquer them. You keep those regions even in decline." Nothing here about not being able to carry on conquering them in decline. "Those regions can only be occupied by a race that this power at its disposal". You still have this power at your disposal in decline. I don't see why a Seafaring race would be able to retain the previoulsy conquered Water regions and still not be able to conquer them if they can in decline.

[Aktualisiert am: Thu, 30 January 2014 14:53]

      
blaxnlion
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Sat, 01 February 2014 17:56
And what about Ghouls followed by a Stout race ? Can Ghouls make a turn of conquest, then the Stout race, you score points, and then you decline and take all the Ghouls out of the map ?
      
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Sat, 01 February 2014 18:25
blaxnlion wrote on Sat, 01 February 2014 20:56

And what about Ghouls followed by a Stout race ? Can Ghouls make a turn of conquest, then the Stout race, you score points, and then you decline and take all the Ghouls out of the map ?


Of course! The rules for Stout don't change just because you have an awesome race that is In Decline. Smile
      
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Mon, 03 February 2014 09:29
blaxnlion wrote on Tue, 31 December 2013 10:24



- in-decline Ghouls act exactly like an active race
- the Seafaring power description never stated in-decline Ghouls can't conquer Water regions anymore.

Not quite. When you go into decline you flip the race banner and discard the special power badge (mentioned in the English rules on page 6. Quote: "To do so, the player flips his current Race banner upside down, so that the grayed-out In Decline side becomes visible to all, and discards the Special Power badge that was associated with it as that Special Power badge is no longer in effect, unless dictated otherwise (e.g. Spirit Special Power).").
To see which Special Powers stay when in decline just check the back of the badge (the back of Seafaring power is empty, so this power is lost).

If a power is still active when in decline it is mentioned in the rulebook. If nothing is mentioned it's gone.

What might have caused some confusion is the sentence "You
keep these Regions even once you go into Decline, and continue scoring for them for as long as you have tokens there.". This means you keep Seas and lakes that you conquered with your active race, but you can't conquer them with an inactive race (e.g. Ghouls in decline).
      
blaxnlion
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Mon, 03 February 2014 12:13
Josie75 wrote on Mon, 03 February 2014 09:29

blaxnlion wrote on Tue, 31 December 2013 10:24



- in-decline Ghouls act exactly like an active race
- the Seafaring power description never stated in-decline Ghouls can't conquer Water regions anymore.

Not quite. When you go into decline you flip the race banner and discard the special power badge (mentioned in the English rules on page 6. Quote: "To do so, the player flips his current Race banner upside down, so that the grayed-out In Decline side becomes visible to all, and discards the Special Power badge that was associated with it as that Special Power badge is no longer in effect, unless dictated otherwise (e.g. Spirit Special Power).").
To see which Special Powers stay when in decline just check the back of the badge (the back of Seafaring power is empty, so this power is lost).

If a power is still active when in decline it is mentioned in the rulebook. If nothing is mentioned it's gone.

What might have caused some confusion is the sentence "You
keep these Regions even once you go into Decline, and continue scoring for them for as long as you have tokens there.". This means you keep Seas and lakes that you conquered with your active race, but you can't conquer them with an inactive race (e.g. Ghouls in decline).



That's weird... You English guys don't have anything on the back of the Seafaring badge power ? Because in the French version that I've got, there is ! A Water region with an in-decline token with a ? on it, occupying this region. That's really weird ! But obviously, I would'nt have said anything I wrote above if there had been nothing on the back.
      
Dan42hitchikers
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Mon, 03 February 2014 23:12
I have it, and i presume most others have it. (Got mine in the UK)
But i think the idea for no more lake conquers as not giving a race like ghouls too much of a stronghold in 2P games, where they could reach most squares.
If you want a smallworld justification, declined races dont have the resources to produce water settlements, thats how i calm my inner need for explanation, find a way for the smallworld logic to (somehow) make sense.
      
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Mon, 03 February 2014 23:24
I'm not sure what else to tell you, but the official rules are that only Active Races can conquer water when a race has the Seafaring power. Like I've said, you're welcome to play however you want, but the official ruling is that Ghouls cannot continue to conquer water.
      
blaxnlion
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Tue, 04 February 2014 07:21
rasmussen81 wrote on Mon, 03 February 2014 23:24

I'm not sure what else to tell you, but the official rules are that only Active Races can conquer water when a race has the Seafaring power. Like I've said, you're welcome to play however you want, but the official ruling is that Ghouls cannot continue to conquer water.


Yes, I admit it and I don't understand them. If they can handle a water region in decline I don't see why they couldn't be able to conquer empty water regions, that's all ^^
      
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Tue, 11 February 2014 18:44
In going back through the thread checking something, I think there was a question from long ago that was never addressed. It was about Berserk Sorcerers. Basically, when can they use their special power an how does it fit with dice rolls. Can they roll a 0, use their special power to convert a singleton, then pick up the die and roll again for their next conquest?

Never ran into this in the digital version so I'm not sure how it handles it. I do know that it forces you to either roll the die or go into decline, so I'm assuming the above scenario is how it would work. Otherwise, there would be no way to use your conversion power with this combo.
      
jepmn
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Tue, 11 February 2014 18:50
Second question (in a separate post to make it easier to quote) is what I was checking the thread for. Can a clarification be posted in the first post about Sorcerers converting units on a fortification? The way the rule is written makes fortifications sound like they work like race tokens. But unlike encampments, they don't specifically point out immunity from Sorcerers.

From Bivouacking:
Each Encampment counts as 1 Race token toward the defense of the Region in which it is placed (thereby protecting a single Race token with an Encampment from the Sorcerer's Racial Power).

From Fortified:
The Fortress also augments your Region's defense by 1 (just as if you had an additional Race token stationed there)

If fortresses aren't supposed to protect from sorcerers, I wish they'd written "just as if there was an additional mountain token there". Would have been a lot clearer.

[Aktualisiert am: Tue, 11 February 2014 18:50]

      
blaxnlion
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Tue, 11 February 2014 22:06
jepmn wrote on Tue, 11 February 2014 18:44

In going back through the thread checking something, I think there was a question from long ago that was never addressed. It was about Berserk Sorcerers. Basically, when can they use their special power an how does it fit with dice rolls. Can they roll a 0, use their special power to convert a singleton, then pick up the die and roll again for their next conquest?

Never ran into this in the digital version so I'm not sure how it handles it. I do know that it forces you to either roll the die or go into decline, so I'm assuming the above scenario is how it would work. Otherwise, there would be no way to use your conversion power with this combo.


I would say you're right. Berseck enables you to roll the die before each conquest, AND THEN attack wherever you want (on any adjacent region), the way you want, using the discount attack you may have got. That's why this power suits Sorcerers so well, because they don't have to lament some failes die rolls, because they can always nullify those failures with their power.

Quote:

Second question (in a separate post to make it easier to quote) is what I was checking the thread for. Can a clarification be posted in the first post about Sorcerers converting units on a fortification? The way the rule is written makes fortifications sound like they work like race tokens. But unlike encampments, they don't specifically point out immunity from Sorcerers.

From Bivouacking:
Each Encampment counts as 1 Race token toward the defense of the Region in which it is placed (thereby protecting a single Race token with an Encampment from the Sorcerer's Racial Power).

From Fortified:
The Fortress also augments your Region's defense by 1 (just as if you had an additional Race token stationed there)

If fortresses aren't supposed to protect from sorcerers, I wish they'd written "just as if there was an additional mountain token there". Would have been a lot clearer.


I don't remember if they compare a Fortress with a Troll Lair. If they don't, Bivouacking's got a sufficiently specific feature - that they act like race tokens for defense - to understand all other defensive tokens don't.
      
jepmn
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Tue, 11 February 2014 22:16
Yeah, the bivouacs seem like they rather arbitrarily got this sorcerer immunity power. And the way they explained it as a parenthetical "by the way" didn't help AT ALL. Perhaps it sounded better before translation.

And of course it makes ZERO sense thematically (people in fortresses succumb to sorcery easier than people in tents).

As far as berserk sorcerer, I don't know about it suiting them THAT much. I find that sorcerer's power doesn't get used THAT much. You have to be in just the right strategic position. Flying Sorcerers are MUCH better in that regard, as they can convert anything, anywhere. Your opponents will HATE you!

[Aktualisiert am: Tue, 11 February 2014 22:18]

      
Dan42hitchikers
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Thu, 13 February 2014 23:49
If you think sorcerers attack lone troops when they convert. I consider it as nomads visiting with tents who ensure there is no isolation and so sorcerers cant use their pesky tricks
      
jepmn
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Thu, 13 February 2014 23:51
Yeah, don't really see how it makes sense that they could with FORTRESSES, though, and not bivouacs. If you're going to try to use logic (which isn't a requirement for gaming rules!), it makes more sense for them to be the same.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Fri, 14 February 2014 17:11
jepmn wrote on Fri, 14 February 2014 02:51

Yeah, don't really see how it makes sense that they could with FORTRESSES, though, and not bivouacs. If you're going to try to use logic (which isn't a requirement for gaming rules!), it makes more sense for them to be the same.


I think of Fortresses as a lone tower...akin to Rapunzel's tower...with only a high window and chest of gold!

Also, I think you'll enjoy the explanation that comes in the Encyclopedia for the reason why bivouacs play differently. Very Happy

[Aktualisiert am: Fri, 14 February 2014 17:12]

      
jepmn
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Fri, 14 February 2014 23:39
rasmussen81 wrote on Fri, 14 February 2014 11:11

I think of Fortresses as a lone tower...akin to Rapunzel's tower...with only a high window and chest of gold!


I don't, because that's not a fortress. Very Happy

Quote:

Also, I think you'll enjoy the explanation that comes in the Encyclopedia for the reason why bivouacs play differently. Very Happy


Help me out. All I can find is this description which doesn't seem to be what you're talking about because it's not very funny:

Bivouacking
Deploy the 5 Encampment tokens in any of your Region(s), during your Troop Redeployment phase. Each Encampment counts as 1 Race token toward the defense of the Region in which it is placed (thereby protecting a single Race token with an Encampment from the Sorcerer's Racial Power).

Multiple Encampments may be placed in the same Region to obtain a higher defense bonus.


Each turn you may break camp and settle in any new Region you occupy. Encampments are never lost during an attack on the Region they are in: they are redeployed at the end of the current player's turn. When the Race they were associated with goes into Decline, they disappear.

      
rasmussen81
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Sat, 15 February 2014 00:43
jepmn wrote on Sat, 15 February 2014 02:39



Quote:

Also, I think you'll enjoy the explanation that comes in the Encyclopedia for the reason why bivouacs play differently. Very Happy


Help me out. All I can find is this description which doesn't seem to be what you're talking about because it's not very funny:

Bivouacking
Deploy the 5 Encampment tokens in any of your Region(s), during your Troop Redeployment phase. Each Encampment counts as 1 Race token toward the defense of the Region in which it is placed (thereby protecting a single Race token with an Encampment from the Sorcerer's Racial Power).

Multiple Encampments may be placed in the same Region to obtain a higher defense bonus.


Each turn you may break camp and settle in any new Region you occupy. Encampments are never lost during an attack on the Region they are in: they are redeployed at the end of the current player's turn. When the Race they were associated with goes into Decline, they disappear.




The Encyclopedia is one of the elements of the Kickstarter that hasn't been released yet. There is a nice little explanation of Encampments that I think you'll enjoy. Smile

In the end, though, it's just the rules of the game whether it makes sense to you or not. In your own games at home you can modify it however you want. Cool
      
jepmn
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Sat, 15 February 2014 07:18
Well, who knows if I'll ever read THAT, then. Very Happy

Honestly, it mostly feels like a mistake they somehow made that got set in stone. It seems like it would make far more sense for fortresses to defend against sorcerers from a balance standpoint. With encampments, you can protect five different regions from sorcerers and if someone conquers them, you get the camp token back. With fortresses, you can only lay one once per round and you get 3 units instead of 5. Yes, you get the +1 gold bonus and the fortress in decline, but in all my games I've found it less useful than encampments for racking up points by taking and keeping regions.
      
blaxnlion
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Sun, 16 February 2014 10:51
jepmn wrote on Sat, 15 February 2014 07:18

Well, who knows if I'll ever read THAT, then. Very Happy

Honestly, it mostly feels like a mistake they somehow made that got set in stone. It seems like it would make far more sense for fortresses to defend against sorcerers from a balance standpoint. With encampments, you can protect five different regions from sorcerers and if someone conquers them, you get the camp token back. With fortresses, you can only lay one once per round and you get 3 units instead of 5. Yes, you get the +1 gold bonus and the fortress in decline, but in all my games I've found it less useful than encampments for racking up points by taking and keeping regions.


That highly depends on the race it's coupled with. Fortified Trolls, for example, can be devastating if the players don't want to smash them down. On the other hand, Fortified Whites Ladies would be terrible...
      
blaxnlion
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Mon, 17 February 2014 07:33
rasmussen81 wrote on Mon, 30 December 2013 22:42

blaxnlion wrote on Tue, 31 December 2013 01:24

Here a question that came into my mind a few seconds ago :

For the Mercenary power, if it is your last conquest, I assume you can pay a VP to reduce the cost of the attack by 2, but if this still doesn't enable you to have enough tokens for your conquest ? So if that happens :

- you pay a VP
- you roll the dice and get 0, and your conquest is failed

Is the VP lost anyway ? I guess it is, but still... Worth asking.


You still lose the coin, because you already payed it out. You don't wait to see the result of the roll before paying! Smile

Quote:

And for the power Hordes of : once I got some race with it. My sister took one of my regions where there was none of the two. My question is : do you have to lose a token from the lost region, or can you dispose of the Hordes of token from another region so that you can save a regular race token for when you go into decline ? Same thing for when you go into decline, if you where not cautious and left one or the two tokens in one region with no regular race token along, do you "lose" this region ?


If we take the computer version as an example you can not switch out Hordes of tokens for any others. It also makes sense with the rules since they are treated exactly like normal tokens, and not just "extra". So in your example, it's a good idea for your sister to target regions without your Hordes of tokens...and when you go In Decline, you definitely lose the regions (and can't exchange the tokens for others before going in decline)

Quote:

And I recently asked whether Seafaring Ghouls in decline could conquer Water regions or not. It is said no in the first messages, but someone told me the opposite afterwards. So ?


You definitely cannot keep conquering water with In Decline Ghouls.

I hope this helps. Cool



Actually, the rule states you can roll the die and then you can decide to pay or not, but thanks anyway.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Mon, 17 February 2014 07:53
blaxnlion wrote on Mon, 17 February 2014 10:33


Actually, the rule states you can roll the die and then you can decide to pay or not, but thanks anyway.


Indeed, you are correct. It looks like we both missed that. Razz
      
jepmn
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Wed, 19 February 2014 18:46
Is this FAQ even being updated any more? The last update is May 2012 and I know there's been several things brought up since then. I have a couple of rules that had official clarifications in
http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?th=20384&start=0
that need adding.

I think we need to restart the sticky with someone very active like rasmussen making the first post.
      
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