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Saghiet
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Tales and legends, Rats Mon, 13 June 2011 22:45
Hi everyone,

I am new to the forum, and loving the game of Smallworld.
We play it a lot and we've come across some things we cannot deside how to play. The following question I cannot find in the forum yet (but maybe I haven't tried hard enough of course). Anyway, I'll just ask it, see what your imput is.

We have tales&legends in which is a card called 'Rats'. It reads 'All Racial powers (including those in decline if any) are useless this turn. Clearly meant to be not a good thing. But, we also have 'be not afraid'. And there are some races (barbarians and pixies)which have special powers thats arent exactly good. Barbarians cannot redeploy, an Pixies have to withdraw all other tokens leaving only ne per region. Thats their racial power, combined with lots of tokens.

Do these races benefit by the rats and are the this turn allowed to redeploy as barbarians and leave their tokens as pixies?

Thnx for reading my question!

[Aktualisiert am: Mon, 13 June 2011 22:46]

      
ClanNatioy
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Re:Tales and legends, Rats Tue, 14 June 2011 09:34
That is an interesting situation but I would just play it exactly as the card states. No ones racial power works so that would make the barbarians and the pixies more powerful for a turn.
      
Deio
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Re:Tales and legends, Rats Tue, 14 June 2011 15:14
I wouldn't play it that way... This card is meant to be a bad thing for everyone, so I don't think barbarians or pixies should benefit from it.

To me, it's a bit like when some of us asked if, in SW Underground, Mummies could attack Gnomes without having to use an extra token (Gnomes are supposed to be immune to enemies special powers when they are under attack; and Mummies must conquer every region with one extra token). The answer was that Gnomes powers were not meant to make the Mummies stronger. So I think it is the same for this card: it is not meant to make any race stronger!
      
Saghiet
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Re:Tales and legends, Rats Tue, 14 June 2011 18:22
Agreed. Thats how we played it too. Because it specificly said 'USELESS'. That implies that something that's otherwise usefull now becomes useless. So what happens will be a bad thing for everyone. And races without special racial powers (like ratmen) are unaffected. That ratmen are unaffected by rats is a nice little twist of that card. But a race that gets stronger because of it would throw of the game I think.

But also agreed that when played exactly as it reads, following the rules very strictly, it would mean pixies and barbarians benefit from it.

I think we will make up our own version and pretend it is specified that this card does not affect pixies and barbarians. Just because its is more balanced out that way.

[Aktualisiert am: Tue, 14 June 2011 20:01]

      
*player38092
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Re:Tales and legends, Rats Sat, 16 July 2011 13:31
Deio écrit le Tue, 14 June 2011 15:14

This card is meant to be a bad thing for everyone
How do you know?
Did you design the card?
I advocate following the exact words of the card, and not extrapolating about what it is meant to mean.
Of course, the "useless" adjective count hint towards one not discounting negative effects of the power, but it is not enough in my opinion to avoid applying the exact wording of the card.
      
Deio
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Re:Tales and legends, Rats Sat, 16 July 2011 15:36
Well you are right, I didn't design the card, I just imagined it was supposed to be a bad thing.

You can follow the exact words of the card, but anyway, it depends a lot on how you define a Racial Power.
In my opinion, the Barbarians unability to redeploy is hardly a Racial Power; it is a counterpart to the fact that they are numerous (and I would say the same about Pixies, Kobolds, Mummies...).

So this really depends on how you interpret the game.
      
*player38092
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Re:Tales and legends, Rats Sat, 16 July 2011 17:11
I tend to stick to the wording of the rules - but will adapt when an errata/FAQ precision is officially expressed.
It must be my board-wargamer background, where there often is a very important temptation to speculate about the application of the rules, after one's own idea of "reality".
At least, in SW, the reality arguments are less frequent - but they can occur, as the ideas and mechanics of the game are not totally cut from our physical world's references. Rolling Eyes
      
Cyan4973
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Re:Tales and legends, Rats Sun, 17 July 2011 12:47
Deio écrit le Tue, 14 June 2011 15:14

This card is meant to be a bad thing for everyone, so I don't think barbarians or pixies should benefit from it.

To me, it's a bit like when some of us asked if, in SW Underground, Mummies could attack Gnomes without having to use an extra token (...). The answer was that Gnomes powers were not meant to make the Mummies stronger.

So I think it is the same for this card: it is not meant to make any race stronger!


I also agree with this version.
The Gnome vs Mummies precedent is an excellent example. Here is the exact wording :

FAQ

Q. Do Mummies have to conquer a region occupied by Gnomes with one extra token, or is this rule cancelled by the Gnomes' Power?
A. They still have to spend an extra token; the Gnomes' Power never applies to the Gnomes' disadvantage, only in their favor.



The generic rule derived from this precedent is : A Card/Power/Event made to benefit someone cannot play against him.
Conversely, a card/power/event made to hamper someone is not made to benefit him.

Obviously, should DoW produce a statement on this situation, it would become the new rule.
      
*player38092
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Re:Tales and legends, Rats Sun, 17 July 2011 12:55
Cyan4973 écrit le Sun, 17 July 2011 12:47

Obviously, should DoW produce a statement on this situation, it would become the new rule.
And I would submit.
But until then... Twisted Evil

[Aktualisiert am: Sun, 17 July 2011 12:55]

      
Luftharn
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July 2012
Re:Tales and legends, Rats Sun, 22 July 2012 12:27
Saghiet wrote on Mon, 13 June 2011 16:45

Hi everyone,

I am new to the forum, and loving the game of Smallworld.
We play it a lot and we've come across some things we cannot deside how to play. The following question I cannot find in the forum yet (but maybe I haven't tried hard enough of course). Anyway, I'll just ask it, see what your imput is.

We have tales&legends in which is a card called 'Rats'. It reads 'All Racial powers (including those in decline if any) are useless this turn. Clearly meant to be not a good thing. But, we also have 'be not afraid'. And there are some races (barbarians and pixies)which have special powers thats arent exactly good. Barbarians cannot redeploy, an Pixies have to withdraw all other tokens leaving only ne per region. Thats their racial power, combined with lots of tokens.

Do these races benefit by the rats and are the this turn allowed to redeploy as barbarians and leave their tokens as pixies?

Thnx for reading my question!

Any official word on this?
      
draziL
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Re:Tales and legends, Rats Sun, 26 August 2012 19:40
Hello

I would like to ask how the "Rats" card is used with Halflings racial power. Specifically, are the regions with "Hole-in-the-ground" tokens, still considered immune when the "Rats" card comes into play ?

[Aktualisiert am: Sun, 26 August 2012 19:44]

      
Saghiet
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Re:Tales and legends, Rats Wed, 05 September 2012 21:40
draziL wrote on Sun, 26 August 2012 19:40

Hello

I would like to ask how the "Rats" card is used with Halflings racial power. Specifically, are the regions with "Hole-in-the-ground" tokens, still considered immune when the "Rats" card comes into play ?




I would think not.. The use of these hole-in-the-ground-tokens is part of their racial power, so I think when rats come into play these regions immediately loose their immunity.
      
draziL
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Re:Tales and legends, Rats Sun, 14 October 2012 10:16
Saghiet wrote on Wed, 05 September 2012 15:40

draziL wrote on Sun, 26 August 2012 19:40

Hello

I would like to ask how the "Rats" card is used with Halflings racial power. Specifically, are the regions with "Hole-in-the-ground" tokens, still considered immune when the "Rats" card comes into play ?




I would think not.. The use of these hole-in-the-ground-tokens is part of their racial power, so I think when rats come into play these regions immediately loose their immunity.



We decided to play the Rats card as follows: We consider Halflings racial power the ability to place "Hole-in-the-ground" tokens. The immunity is a power originating from these tokens and not a racial power.

So, as long as the "Hole-in-the-ground" tokens are already placed, the do not loose their immunity when Rats card comes into play. However, if Halflings come into play when the Rats card is active, they are unable to place their "Hole-in-the-ground" tokens.

      
    
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