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MurkenTutte
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Sorcerer with catapult Mon, 10 September 2012 12:11
Can sorcerer use it's converting power with catapult and convert a single token 2 regions away?
      
pseudofenton
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Re:Sorcerer with catapult Mon, 10 September 2012 15:33
Not an official answer of cause, but as I read it: Yes, you can.

The sorcerer rules state: "your Sorcerers can conquer a Region by substituting one of your opponent's Active... {snip}" and are allowed to use their power in any region when Flying (see the FaQ on this board).

The catapult rules states: "place the Catapult in a region you occupy to conquer any region that is 1 region away (but not adjacent) at 1 less token than usual" and as such allows conquests in regions that are 1 Region away (non-adjacent) from where the Catapult is placed.

As the Sorcerer ability is just an alternative form of conquest I'd see no reason to forbid catapulting one over but using their racial power to substitute - so long as the target Region still has only one token in it and isn't immune (as usual).

[Aktualisiert am: Mon, 10 September 2012 15:33]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:Sorcerer with catapult Mon, 10 September 2012 15:52
I would tend to lean the other way and say that you couldn't do that. The Sorcerer special power is for Adjacent regions (which is why Flying lets them use their power on any region) but the Catapult specifically says that the regions can't be adjacent.

I don't think it would be allowed. Cool
      
*player1138704
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Re:Sorcerer with catapult Mon, 10 September 2012 19:05
EDIT: I misread your question, here is the proper answer.

Flying doesn't make things adjacent, it just makes you able to ignore adjacency for conquest (as described in the second post here: http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?goto=164065#msg_164065).

From what I understand, Catapult doesn't let you ignore adjacency. So you can't catapult over things, it just makes things 1 space away from the catapult cheaper to attack. You still have to be able to attack them normally by being adjacent to them. So it does not help sorcerers.

[Aktualisiert am: Mon, 10 September 2012 19:14]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:Sorcerer with catapult Mon, 10 September 2012 19:33
agrabah wrote on Mon, 10 September 2012 21:05

Snip...

From what I understand, Catapult doesn't let you ignore adjacency. So you can't catapult over things, it just makes things 1 space away from the catapult cheaper to attack. You still have to be able to attack them normally by being adjacent to them. So it does not help sorcerers.


I'll have to look for the reference, but the Catapult does indeed let you attack a region that you are not adjacent to. However, I still believe that you can't use it to "fling" your special power. Smile
      
*player1138704
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Re:Sorcerer with catapult Tue, 11 September 2012 01:18
Oh it says it here: http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?goto=197979#msg_197979

Crazy we've been playing that all wrong. I think the rules were really ambiguous about that, none of the five people in our group read it that way or even considered it until I saw this thread.


Anyway to get back to the original question, if flying let's you use the Sorcerer's power then I don't see why Catapult wouldn't, so I think it's fair game. Neither one changes adjacency, and apparently both change what the conquest rules are.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Sorcerer with catapult Tue, 11 September 2012 05:28
agrabah wrote on Tue, 11 September 2012 03:18

-Snip...

Anyway to get back to the original question, if flying let's you use the Sorcerer's power then I don't see why Catapult wouldn't, so I think it's fair game. Neither one changes adjacency, and apparently both change what the conquest rules are.


Actually, Flying does change Adjacency. It's mentioned specifically in the FAQ thread over here. Just look down under the Powers section at Flying. Smile
      
*player1138704
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Re:Sorcerer with catapult Tue, 11 September 2012 14:58
rasmussen81 wrote on Mon, 10 September 2012 20:28

agrabah wrote on Tue, 11 September 2012 03:18

-Snip...

Anyway to get back to the original question, if flying let's you use the Sorcerer's power then I don't see why Catapult wouldn't, so I think it's fair game. Neither one changes adjacency, and apparently both change what the conquest rules are.


Actually, Flying does change Adjacency. It's mentioned specifically in the FAQ thread over here. Just look down under the Powers section at Flying. Smile


No it specifically does NOT change adjacency according to that thread.

The relevant quotes:

Quote:

Q: If I have Flying Giants, and I control 1 Mountain, then can I attack ANY region using the Giant's ability of -1 on attacks against regions adjacent to a mountian I contol?
A: No, this is different. Flying does NOT make all the regions adjacent to each other. The Giants' ability only works against Regions that are physically adjacent to the Mountains they occupy.


and

Quote:

Q: Can a Flying race conquer a lake?
A: No. The English rules should read: ".. Seas and Lakes."

The "Flying" ability allows you to ignore the adjacency rule for your conquests.

If you have the Flying special power, you may use it to enter the board through a non border territory.



From these is pretty clear that Flying does not change adjacency, just lets you ignore adjacency rules for conquest. Since Catapult also lets you partially ignore adjacency rules for conquest (although in a more limited manner) if Flying lets Sorcerer's use their ability, then it follows that Catapult should as well.

[Aktualisiert am: Tue, 11 September 2012 14:59]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:Sorcerer with catapult Tue, 11 September 2012 15:37
agrabah wrote on Tue, 11 September 2012 16:58

rasmussen81 wrote on Mon, 10 September 2012 20:28

agrabah wrote on Tue, 11 September 2012 03:18

-Snip...

Anyway to get back to the original question, if flying let's you use the Sorcerer's power then I don't see why Catapult wouldn't, so I think it's fair game. Neither one changes adjacency, and apparently both change what the conquest rules are.


Actually, Flying does change Adjacency. It's mentioned specifically in the FAQ thread over here. Just look down under the Powers section at Flying. Smile


No it specifically does NOT change adjacency according to that thread.

The relevant quotes:

Quote:

Q: If I have Flying Giants, and I control 1 Mountain, then can I attack ANY region using the Giant's ability of -1 on attacks against regions adjacent to a mountian I contol?
A: No, this is different. Flying does NOT make all the regions adjacent to each other. The Giants' ability only works against Regions that are physically adjacent to the Mountains they occupy.


and

Quote:

Q: Can a Flying race conquer a lake?
A: No. The English rules should read: ".. Seas and Lakes."

The "Flying" ability allows you to ignore the adjacency rule for your conquests.

If you have the Flying special power, you may use it to enter the board through a non border territory.



From these is pretty clear that Flying does not change adjacency, just lets you ignore adjacency rules for conquest. Since Catapult also lets you partially ignore adjacency rules for conquest (although in a more limited manner) if Flying lets Sorcerer's use their ability, then it follows that Catapult should as well.


You make very good points! Very Happy I'm a lot less sure about it now and given enough time I might actually become a believer. Laughing Razz
      
*player1138704
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Re:Sorcerer with catapult Fri, 14 September 2012 00:31
Haha cool Smile There are a bunch of things in the game that could go either way. I don't really think it matters too much as long as everyone you're playing with agrees ahead of time how certain combos are going to work.
      
DannyMack
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Re:Sorcerer with catapult Fri, 26 April 2013 08:17
agrabah wrote on Thu, 13 September 2012 18:31

There are a bunch of things in the game that could go either way. I don't really think it matters too much as long as everyone you're playing with agrees ahead of time how certain combos are going to work.

This.
      
    
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