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mikeloftus
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Day / Night Cycle Tue, 28 August 2007 18:44
This is also posted at BGG to cast a wide net...

A buddy of mine and I are thinking of running a campaign using the day to night feature from the Pacific Theater set for EVERY scenario.

Has anyone tried this?

We were thinking of using a random element to advance the counter from day to night and back again (or night to day depending on when the scenario starts).

We are probably going to use a FIXED setup however since we could not plan ahead if it was random.

We like longer games and this might add more maneuvering and exciting assaults on cities at NIGHT!

Your thoughts?

-Mike
      
SlotraceDK
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Re:Day / Night Cycle Tue, 28 August 2007 22:44
I would say you would have to have two day turns and one night turn.
Troops that move during a day turn can't move at night and the troops that move at night can't move the first day turn.
      
mikeloftus
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Re:Day / Night Cycle Tue, 28 August 2007 23:00
I'm not sure what you mean, I'll elaborate a little more.

I want to use the day to night cycle that lowers range from:

6 hexes - Day
5
4
3
2
1 hex - Night

As Indicated by the Night Visibility Chart.

Are you suggesting stopping on the day end for 2 turns?

Sorry for the confusion. Very Happy
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Day / Night Cycle Wed, 29 August 2007 00:56
What do you mean by the "Fixed Setup" part of what you're planning to do? Do you mean you will play a preset number of turns for each level of visibility:

2 turns each side (1 Visibility - Night)
1 turn each side (2 Visibility - dawn)
1 turn each side (3 Visibility - morning)
1 turn each side (4 Visibility - mid morning)
1 turn each side (5 Visibility - early afternoon)
2 turns each side (6 Visibility - Afternoon)
1 turn each side (5 Visibility - late afternoon)
1 turn each side (4 Visibility - evening)
1 turn each side (3 Visibility - dusk)
1 turn each side (2 Visibility - sunset)
2 turns each side (1 Visibility - night)

I think that would be really fun. You could do a more random element in there like the Day/Night rules are in the Pacific expansion (role dice) but then also say that when it is daylight (6 Visibility) each side gets to have X number of turns before the random darkening starts again. Then when it's night have the same X number of turns when it's dark. That would make for some cool maneuvering at night and in the dusk hours!

Twisted Evil
      
mikeloftus
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Re:Day / Night Cycle Wed, 29 August 2007 01:38
I meant fixed as in not random.

I like your plan... Especially since it makes sense that it would be at 1 and 6 for longer periods of time!

Great! I'll let everyone know how it turned out or if we had to tweak it. Surprised

You think like I do about the maneuvering... Its exactly what I had in mind! Twisted Evil
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Day / Night Cycle Wed, 29 August 2007 04:30
Now I'm going to have to try it! It sounds really fun. Are you going to play with the random speed for it getting light and dark or are you thinking it will be all planned out how many turns it is for each visibility?

I can't wait for my friend to get back in town so we can play with these new rules! Very Happy
      
mikeloftus
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Re:Day / Night Cycle Wed, 29 August 2007 04:47
We decided that the random speed would not be as much fun because daylight in REAL life isn't random... we know that in a certain amount of time that the sun will go down and come up.

The only thing we may tweak is how long the day and night rounds end.

Using the 2 rounds at the night and day extremes may be expanded to 3 if it draws the game out TOO long.

I hope you enjoy our idea, I just can't believe no one else has posted this idea before or is saying anything about it like "Yeah, we did that and it was OK".

[Updated on: Wed, 29 August 2007 04:49]

      
SlotraceDK
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Re:Day / Night Cycle Wed, 29 August 2007 13:11
Don't know about where you are, but here in Copenhagen sometimes it rains. Ain't always sunny!!!
Perhaps you should put that into you scheme?

rasmussen1's scheme is 14 turns for just one day. 24 hours of battle!!!! No relax for the troops?

[Updated on: Wed, 29 August 2007 13:12]

      
mikeloftus
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Re:Day / Night Cycle Wed, 29 August 2007 16:06
I guess if we are going as far as to add light, we could always add weather too.

I'll think about it after I see how the day/night works first... it may not play as good as it sounds.

Smile
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Day / Night Cycle Wed, 29 August 2007 16:45
I think when I try it out I'm going to forego the weather realism. Here in Oregon, USA it rains a lot too, but I'm afraid that if I add weather rules it'll start getting unwieldy and slow the game down too much. Pretty soon I would be playing with that huge list someone posted a while ago.

It is an interesting idea to make the Day/Night round last for 24 turns though, so it actually is like a full day. I don't know that a normal game lasts 48 turns though (24 turns for each side). But maybe with darkness in there the games will take longer.

[Updated on: Thu, 30 August 2007 00:09]

      
SlotraceDK
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Re:Day / Night Cycle Wed, 29 August 2007 21:05
But when will you give you troops a rest?
If you watch 'Band of Brothers' fighting only takes place in approx. 20 minutes - unless it is D-Day - and most of the time goes by with sleeping, eating and walking!!!
      
mikeloftus
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Re:Day / Night Cycle Wed, 29 August 2007 23:00
War is hell...

And this is a board game.... Laughing
      
neil1967
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Re:Day / Night Cycle Thu, 30 August 2007 00:28
Quote:

We decided that the random speed would not be as much fun because daylight in REAL life isn't random... we know that in a certain amount of time that the sun will go down and come up.


Daylight may not be random, but is each turn the same length in M44?

I'd suggest some kind of roll after each turn, to see if the day moves onto the next phase of day/night. For example a 1 in 6 chance of day becoming dusk, a 3 in 6 chance of dusk becoming night, 2 in 6 of night moving on to dawn, and 1 in 3 of dawn becoming day again. You get uncertainty of whether your troops will be quick enough to take advantage of the visiblity level before it gets lighter or darker.

The battle may be fought entirely in one phase of the day, but that's just representing fast moving action. Alternatively there might only be one turn of daylight, that's just the troops being slow to get off the mark, confusion in orders, waiting for re-supply, whatever. Remember the scene in "A Bridge Too Far" where Robert Redfords planned dawn river assault goes in in broad daylight? That's the result you can get Smile
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Day / Night Cycle Thu, 30 August 2007 00:45
That's an interesting thought, Neil. I hadn't considered the length of a M44 turn. Are you thinking you would roll a 6 sided die for that random aspect or the M44 die trying to get a star (that way you would have a 1 in 6 chance). This whole plan might still need some heavy thinking.
      
Randwulf
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Re:Day / Night Cycle Thu, 30 August 2007 04:58
how much time and planning does it take to play a recon vs an assault??? how much time does it take to move more units and attack more places???

maybe have a modifier for number of units moved to push the day along???

ok my brain hurts.... think i'll stick to the normal way. just remember many of the scenarios are set over several days of time, and many are just an afternoon... so changing daylight might not work....

      
neil1967
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Re:Day / Night Cycle Thu, 30 August 2007 10:32
Quote:

That's an interesting thought, Neil. I hadn't considered the length of a M44 turn. Are you thinking you would roll a 6 sided die for that random aspect or the M44 die trying to get a star (that way you would have a 1 in 6 chance). This whole plan might still need some heavy thinking.


I was thinking of just using a standard D6. Of course, you could also make a special dice just for it, one face for daytime ending, 2 for night time ending and 3 for dusk/dawn.

      
mikeloftus
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Re:Day / Night Cycle Thu, 30 August 2007 14:52
Hm, I see the point about the length of a turn, BUT time is already abstracted... troops are not moving all at once. Literally doing NOTHING for a short time while the enemy takes his turn. Personally I like how Memoir is more simple than TOI and other games. I think I'll know more after this Sunday when we play a few scenarios.

Another point is that I like to use "official" materials. The low-light restrictions provided are cool and I'm just looking to use them more than the one time I think they are used.

I'm NOT saying that I don't find these other ideas intriguing... just I like to keep it simple...

If it doesn't feel right doing turn - advance time, turn - advance time, then we would definitely look to using a dice roll to advance time.

How to do that is still up in the air... Razz
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Day / Night Cycle Fri, 31 August 2007 16:15
My buddy doesn't get back into town until next week so you'll have to tell me how the games go! Good luck, and good night. Cool
      
mikeloftus
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Re:Day / Night Cycle Fri, 07 September 2007 14:36
IT WORKED!

We played Scenario #38 Suomussalmi last night.

The Finns lost by one medal.

The addition of the light rules were awesome!

It was fun having to remember that Artillery would not be at full strength until the sun was back, I took the opportunity to move it during the night under the safe cover of darkness.

We decided to change the counter at the beginning of the Allie's turn, resting on the full daylight and full darkness for 2 counts.

It also made for some interesting night ops.

At one point, the Ski troops were in range and "plain sight" of Russians in the town, but were safe because of the cover of night.

Another big deal was that your use of cards is even MORE limited and choices become easier as night falls.

My opponent decided to hold onto a Barrage card until full daylight to finish off a wounded Ski team. He had been holding that card for over 8 turns, what a gamble!

All in all, it added time to the game, but also a nice break. There wasn't fighting every round and for complete darkness only some maneuvering and skirmishes in the woods.

We plan on playing Scenario # 28 Gallabat-Metemma, we'll see how it goes!
      
    
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