Forums

Search
Forums » Memoir '44 - English » Armor Overrun + Terrain effect question
Show: Today's Posts 
  
AuthorTopic
Bobagabe
Junior Member

User Pages
Posts: 16
Registered:
June 2004
Armor Overrun + Terrain effect question Wed, 23 June 2004 22:57

My tank unit moves adjacent to an enemy unit that is in a forest hex. My tank unit attacks and rolls one flag. The enemy unit retreats out of the forest.

Can I move my tank unit into the forest and attack the enemy unit again (armor overrun) or does the forest stop my tanks from firing a second round of attacks (terrain restriction).

We played that the tanks could attack again but I'm not sure we played it right.
      
wayner2d2
Member

User Pages
Posts: 62
Registered:
June 2004
Re:Armor Overrun + Terrain effect question Wed, 23 June 2004 23:39
the way the section is worded i would say yes. however, i suspect that the part about terrian restrictions still applying should have been included on the bottom of the taking ground section after the armor overrun combat section. The first move you are doing with the tank unit is taking ground. The armor overrun can be claimed if no other restrictions apply. i am sure this will be debated back and forth but if you think about it it makes sense that you could not overrun from the woods.
      
Brett
Junior Member

Posts: 25
Registered:
May 2004
Re:Armor Overrun + Terrain effect question Wed, 23 June 2004 23:55
Unless its scenario specific (and your not using resistance fighters) any armor that enters a woods stops, and cannot battle again. So you can get the breakthrough, take the ground, and your battle is over.
      
wayner2d2
Member

User Pages
Posts: 62
Registered:
June 2004
Re:Armor Overrun + Terrain effect question Thu, 24 June 2004 00:01
i agree. the armor overrun is not guaranteed. it is a bonus for tank units if no other restrictions apply. for those of you who think of things realistically this should not be a hard pill to swallow.
      
Bobagabe
Junior Member

User Pages
Posts: 16
Registered:
June 2004
Re:Armor Overrun + Terrain effect question Thu, 24 June 2004 00:22
I definitely see your point.

However, since this rule greatly effects the power of Armor, I'd sure like to hear the official word on it.
      
shumyum
Junior Member

User Pages
Posts: 21
Registered:
June 2003
Re:Armor Overrun + Terrain effect question Thu, 24 June 2004 00:29
Anyone who thinks Memoir '44 is realistic is not being realistic. We're already dealing with a special case so all bets are off about what "makes sense". One should first and foremost go by the rules and in my opinion, they are ambiguous on this matter. If I had to guess, I would say the full overrun (with attack) is allowed since nothing about terrain is mentioned in that section of the rules. The terrain restrictions *seem* to me to only describe the standard move and attack phases of the game (they certainly don't affect retreats). However, I will go by whatever official answer comes out. (If any of you *are* in an official capacity, please say so and I will gladly obey the chain of command!)
      
Bobagabe
Junior Member

User Pages
Posts: 16
Registered:
June 2004
Re:Armor Overrun + Terrain effect question Thu, 24 June 2004 01:01
I just reread that section of the rules and I think the tanks don't get to overrun and attack through forests. Here is why:


The Taking Ground rule clearly state that "Terrain movement and battle restrictions still apply when units take ground."


And I think before an armor unit can do an Armor Overrun attack, it must first do a "Taking Ground" move. (I get this impresion from the last paragraph from the taking ground rule)

So, until I hear otherwise, I'm curbing my tanks.
      
shumyum
Junior Member

User Pages
Posts: 21
Registered:
June 2003
Re:Armor Overrun + Terrain effect question Thu, 24 June 2004 01:28
I missed this. Yes, that makes sense. (Mea culpa, my bad, etc.)
      
komichido
Member
Cadet

Posts: 57
Registered:
June 2004
Re:Armor Overrun + Terrain effect question Thu, 24 June 2004 04:32
I agree with the not attacking after taking ground in the woods. Although I have a general question or 2 about tanks.

1. Panzers were better armored and better gunned than shermans. They were even superior to the Firefly which was available by '44. So has anyone decided to try and somehow recreate this fact in the game? I know the Tiger units which are represented in the game tries to do this but by '44 mostly panzer 4's, and panthers were on the battlefield and they just destroyed shermans. The only advantage shermans had was its speed.

2. Are we assuming that infantry that defeats tank units are using panzershrecks or bazookas respectively. Perhaps mines, or flamethrowers???? Just asking???

I do love this game thou!
As a noob to this forum....how do I change my name from player21779?
Joe



2.

[Updated on: Thu, 24 June 2004 04:32]

      
Texas gamer
Member

Posts: 62
Registered:
June 2004
Re:Armor Overrun + Terrain effect question Thu, 24 June 2004 04:54
An overrun is clearly different than taking ground. It reads like armor does not take ground, it overruns - the actions for infantry and armor have different names. The terrain restriction is clearly mentioned for taking ground. It is not mentioned for overruns. The charging, rampaging armor would have a lot of battle momentum and could continue an attack.

The disorientation upon entering woods and needing "another turn" to fire out would not apply if the armor is continuing to target a fleeing enemy. In the even rarer case when an overrun is conducted and the original enemy is destroyed, it is just a special case and the armor can still have another shot.

That's how we play it, in the few cases it has come up.

      
BloodyBucket
Senior Member

User Pages
Posts: 193
Registered:
May 2004
Re:Armor Overrun + Terrain effect question Thu, 24 June 2004 05:21
I'm interested in the official ruling, but it seems to me the woods should stop the armor from attacking again. I think the same would hold true for a hedgerow.
      
eric
-= Crew =-
Advanced Combat Training

User Pages
Posts: 3198
Registered:
October 2002
Re:Armor Overrun + Terrain effect question Thu, 24 June 2004 06:21
Yes that is correct. If an armor takes ground into a wood, it will stop there and won't fight again, as a result of the terrain limitation. Same thing for Hedgerows, towns, etc...
This will be detailed in the FAQ.
eric (btw an armor overrun involves a taking ground action, so what is said for taking ground remains true).
      
Stuart
Junior Member

Posts: 28
Registered:
June 2004
Re:Armor Overrun + Terrain effect question Thu, 24 June 2004 12:12
player21779 wrote on Thu, 24 June 2004 03:32

Panzers were better armored and better gunned than shermans. So has anyone decided to try and somehow recreate this fact in the game?


I assume that 1 unit of Shermans represents more actual tanks than 1 unit of Panzers.
      
BloodyBucket
Senior Member

User Pages
Posts: 193
Registered:
May 2004
Re:Armor Overrun + Terrain effect question Fri, 25 June 2004 04:17
That's a good reason for German and Allied tank units being equal in M44. The Allied units probably have more Shermans, more ammo, etc. The German units that are predominately Panzer IV or earlier might have about the same numbers, and the German heavy formations in some scenarios can be justified as having more Panthers, Tigers and the like in the unit, even if they are fewer in tank numbers to the same allied units. I can live with that abstraction.

I would like to see a way to give the allies more off board air and artillery support.

      
    
Previous Topic:Avatars
Next Topic:Air Power and Their Finest Hour
Goto Forum: