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rasmussen81
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Kid-Friendly M44 Tue, 23 October 2007 17:57
I teach 3rd Grade in Oregon, USA and yesterday I was looking at Memoir 44 stuff while my students were taking a test. A student came back to my desk to ask me a question and I happened to be looking at an M44 picture from boardgamegeek.com. He asked what the game was and then said, "That looks cool. You should get it." I told him I already had it and he said, "Maybe you could bring it in some time and we could play." Smile

His comment got me thinking about it and I've decided that maybe I'll start letting kids play it at lunch recess! My question is...how do I make it simple enough for 8-9 year olds? I know I read somewhere that I should take all of the Tactic cards out of the deck. Are there any other things I should do to make the game easy for the kids?

I'm getting a whole new generation of board gamers ready for the world!! Very Happy
      
Randwulf
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Tue, 23 October 2007 18:12
Kids are a lot smarter than most people give them credit for. And when learning is fun, they learn even faster. Just because they don't know something does not make them stupid, it make them ignorant. And ignorance is not a bad thing, it only means you don't know something. And it can be corrected easy... I'll be the first to admit I am ignorant about a lot of things.

Bring a couple of copies and teach the little buggers how to play... next thing you know you'll have an overlord game going with 8 kids all wanting to be the general... LOL

Don't worry about it being to hard for them, I would wager that most of them could tell you how to reboot your computer into DOS and reformat your hard drive...

Not only will they learn a little history, they will get a good dose of probability statistics and problem solving decision making and not even know it...
      
Roobarb
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Tue, 23 October 2007 18:41
i think this is a great idea Smile i wish my teachers where as cool as you. boardgames and rpgs are like a work out for the mind it will make there young minds strong and devlope there imgination Smile imho the best thing a teacher can do is give a kid a passion for a given subject and history is a gift.
you may whant to scan the cards,hex overlays and boards and get some deck protectors
http://www.manaleak.com/store/index.php?cPath=25_38
go for it mate and give them full exp i reacon as randwulf says they will pick it up realy quickly
if there is any way i can help im ready and willing bearing in mind im in the UK
keep us posted Smile Very Happy

      
Whiterook
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Tue, 23 October 2007 18:50
I must agree with Master Randwulf! The little fellas are smarter than folks give them credit for. I seem to remember in the back of the M44 manual (I'm at work, lunch, so I don't have the book with me) that had a small section on Little Generals. Regardless, I don't think even the Tactic Cards would be that advanced for them with a proper explaination. Once they have the whole Section and dice rolling concepts down, the Tactic Cards should meld in pretty easy.

You might want to consider having them play in teams of two on each side, perhaps alternating play or playing collaboratively, so that one team member can consult each other on the best card to play if one of them gets stumped as to how to proceed. In this way, they can help each other get the game system down without bugging you every minute (not that you don't love that!). I would also restrict them to just Pegasus Bridge (or one of the first few scenarios not involving Maquis, Rangers, or Elite German Tanks).

I think M44 is a great tool to get them "in to" history. Well done!
      
Whiterook
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Tue, 23 October 2007 18:56
Roobarb wrote on Tue, 23 October 2007 12:41


you may whant to scan the cards,hex overlays and boards and get some deck protectors



Roo has a great idea! Put the cards in protectors...I believe baseball card protectors would do nicely (couple bucks for a pack of 100), and most hobby and game stores sell them.

The board protection can be something as simple as a sheet of flexible clear plastic. Craft and fabric stores sell this stuff in pretty thick mils; and they can be cut to size and roll up. A lot easier than scanning the boards (expensive).

Rock on, Roo!
      
Roobarb
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Tue, 23 October 2007 19:15
Whiterook wrote on Tue, 23 October 2007 17:56


Rock on, Roo!


Surprised is that me Question i thout that was the rest of the world Laughing
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Tue, 23 October 2007 19:41
I wrote the first message just before school started and it's 10:30, my first chance to check the board. Thanks for all the help and advice!! Smile

I like the idea of protecting the boards and cards! Can you shuffle the deck of cards with those sleeves on them? I'll have to see if I can get a second M44 game because right now I only have one set. We'll see if my wife will go for it! Rolling Eyes Very Happy

I think you guys are right, the kids will learn it faster than some adults, especially because they'll be interested in it. Thanks for the help guys and keep the advice coming!
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Tue, 23 October 2007 20:40
Good news, friends!! I just talked to my principle and he said that he doesn't mind if I offer M44 as a lunch activity! Very Happy Cool With the political world we live in I needed to make sure to cover my bases...so now all I need is parent permission for each student and we're golden!

Anyone have ideas of where I could get a cheap M44 game to use in the class? It would be great to have two sets so I could run two games at once or an Overlord battle! Very Happy Rolling Eyes
      
Randwulf
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Tue, 23 October 2007 21:47
ebay baby...


you can also look at BBG for folk that want to sell off their copy... although I can't for the life of me understand why they would want to???

      
Whiterook
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Wed, 24 October 2007 01:57
Send an PM (email) to Richard (Borg), and tell him what you have in mind. I wouldn't be surprised if he's donate a few copies....maybe even teleconference into the school to talk to the kids as a learning event. Never hurts to ask! I was got a bunch of great drums for my Drum Corps from a University up the street!!!
      
Whiterook
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Wed, 24 October 2007 01:59
And yes, Roo, that's you in all your magnificent glory! Very Happy

Your cool in my book!!!!
      
Roobarb
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Wed, 24 October 2007 02:05
you could do historical handouts maybe do the games in cronalogical order start in 1939 and work your way to 1945 Razz
      
silentshadow
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Wed, 24 October 2007 04:01
All right. I'll let the cat out of the bag. I'm a teacher. When I taught fifth graders (aged 10-11), I would bring Battle Cry to school during our civil war unit, and they would go nuts! So I can attest to the fact that the Command and Colors system is accessible to the young 'uns. Hey, my son is six, and he plays competitively.

ss
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Wed, 24 October 2007 04:49
Now that I've started thinking about it, I'm excited to get started with the class. I looked on the DoW page and they had a little part about donating games to schools! They said they don't do it because they get too many requests. Sad Oh well, it was worth looking into.

I didn't get an answer before, so does anyone know: Will I be able to shuffle my deck of cads if they are in card protectors?

What a fun way to learn about World War II! Very Happy
      
Roobarb
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Wed, 24 October 2007 04:53
you can get ridged deck protectors so yea i guess you can but maybe not small hands i was reluctant to post a replie cos i dont have personal exp Smile
      
Randwulf
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Wed, 24 October 2007 05:11
you can still shuffle but its hard... the side mix works better.


you could also ask your LFGS if they have teacher discounts or donations...


I was asked to teach D&D to some real losers way back in school, I said "what!!! why???" turns out they all had really bad math skills... simple adding and subtracting and dice rolling over a one month course brought them up 3 grade levels!!!! they had fun and did not even know they were learning...


It looked like it was going to be a pilot program until a local church threw a hissy fit at us teaching the kids to be devil worshiping satanists... y'all remember the D&D was evil thing 25 years ago.... lost that battle, but I think I won the war...
      
Roobarb
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Wed, 24 October 2007 05:48
Randwulf wrote on Wed, 24 October 2007 04:11


It looked like it was going to be a pilot program until a local church threw a hissy fit at us teaching the kids to be devil worshiping satanists... y'all remember the D&D was evil thing 25 years ago.... lost that battle, but I think I won the war...


i saw a film about it (fictional)i thout it was very a silly far feched load of cobblers i didnt realise there was a real histera about d'n'd i think thats very funny

[Updated on: Wed, 24 October 2007 05:49]

      
AK_Aramis
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Wed, 24 October 2007 07:58
Start with a few infantry only small actions, say 3 units per side per section, all infantry.


Repeat with tanks.

then 2 tank units and two infantry units.

then work through the full game.

It's how I taught my daughter to play when she was in 2nd grade.
      
Jim57
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Wed, 24 October 2007 14:39
I taught my daughter to play when she was in the 3rd grade. I never removed any of the cards, but for the first few games, we would play "openly". In other words, if she had a card she didn't quite understand, she would show it to me, and I would explain how to use it, and how to use it against me. Now, she is in the 4th grade, and I do not explain any card to her. In fact, she lets me know when I use a card incorrectly. Embarassed Also, she plays the Allies 90% of the time. We do not switch sides. She also wins most of the time. What really is funny, sometimes, I say... Are you sure you want to do that? and she replies, "I know what I am doing". Then, sure enough... most of the time, it is a good move on her part. Shocked We played all the scenarios in the original book, some several times, and We also have played some Eastern Front and some Pacific scenarios too!! I let her pick out scenarios on the "Scenarios from the Front" page to download too. So, I am just mentioning, kids at that age, they are ready for a challenge.

Sorry for the long post.

Jim
      
ANZAC_Trooper
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Wed, 24 October 2007 15:56
Just to follow on from Jim57 - I did the same open game method with my 8yr old so he could ask about any difficult tactics cards, chose an unbalanced scenario and took the 'losing' side, and gave the odd tip to him ... by the end of the game he was telling me he didn't like a particular tip because he was planning something else - and he won.
To be fair he had played LotR Combat Hex miniatures with me the previous year so had an idea what to do in lite wargames, but the concepts are simple enough for kids to pick up straight away and to start developing their own tactics.

And I have thin (cheap) protectors on my cards (from my lads Yu-Gi-Oh cards) and I seem to be able to get a decent basic shuffle in.
      
Roobarb
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Wed, 24 October 2007 16:41
it reminds me of an overheard conversation at my local games shop bettwen a farther and his girl (7 or Cool they were looking at some game and deciding weather to buy
girl: oh look you can get politcal power and make trade agremnts
dad:or you build a big army and crush your enemys
girl:now thats just silly
dad:um we realy need to go now
Rolling Eyes i dont know it made me chuckel Smile
      
Stavka227
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Wed, 24 October 2007 16:57
I've played quite a few games against my son, and the tip of removing the Tactic cards that they include in the main rulebook really works. Also, good scenarios for the young from the main rulebook are Sword Beach and Pegasus Bridge. I've played them a fair bit now and if there's one thing I've discovered - kids like tanks.
Mont Mouchet is also good as an introduction - think of Pegasus as an introduction to the game, Sword Beach as an overview of unit types, and Mont Mouchet as a look at the importance of terrain.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Wed, 24 October 2007 17:16
Stavka227 wrote on Wed, 24 October 2007 07:57


if there's one thing I've discovered - kids like tanks.
Mont Mouchet is also good as an introduction - think of Pegasus as an introduction to the game, Sword Beach as an overview of unit types, and Mont Mouchet as a look at the importance of terrain.


I could see a lot of the kids in my class liking tanks too! I don't have my rule book with me here...is Mont Mouchet one of the original scenarios or is it from Scenarios From The Front? I'm guessing the former.

I think I'll pitch my idea to the class tomorrow and send home permission forms. We'll see if all this thinking and effort pays off because if there isn't much interest I don't know if we'll do it. Cool I'm not too worried. Smile
      
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Wed, 24 October 2007 18:20
Mont Mouchet is one of the original scenarios. Good luck with your students. This is a good thing that you are doing. I suspect your lunch break will now be very busy. Smile
      
Whiterook
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Wed, 24 October 2007 18:29
Mont Mouchet is from the original game Cool

Just want to mention again, it probably wouldn't hurt to plug your idea with Richard Borg via email. What the company web site says is policy, and what the designer will actually do on his own are two separate things. He's a real cool guy who is very proud of his games...you may hit his soft spot Very Happy

On the protectors...yeah, probably not the easiest thing in the world to shuffle; but you don't actually shuffle that often anyways; new games and Their Finest Hour cards are about it. Now, I'm not sure how they would sit in the little stadium holders???
      
Whiterook
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Wed, 24 October 2007 18:32
A side note on shuffling...I hate when an opponent grabs the cards and does that shuffle thing where you bend the cards to shuffle the ends in. A real per peeve of mine. It just speeds the wear on the poor little buggers!
      
Jim57
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Wed, 24 October 2007 22:29
Whiterook wrote on Wed, 24 October 2007 12:32

A side note on shuffling...I hate when an opponent grabs the cards and does that shuffle thing where you bend the cards to shuffle the ends in. A real per peeve of mine. It just speeds the wear on the poor little buggers!


Didn't they used to say "Checkmate King 2 to Whiterook, over" in Combat! ? Been a long time. As for menitioning it when someone bends the cards... ON PURPOSE, Yeah I hate that too!! I also hate it when the get..."curled" in the center by someone trying to "hide" what they are. Sad Don't worry, I won't peek. I was playing with someone that did that with the cards from Ticket to Ride... I was cringing the whole time. I didn't want to sound... whiney, so I never mentioned it. Maybe I should have?? Sorry for getting off subject... Embarassed

Jim
      
Roobarb
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Wed, 24 October 2007 22:47
has anyone had any use of card shuffler do they damage the cards Question
      
Jim57
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Thu, 25 October 2007 00:12
Roobarb wrote on Wed, 24 October 2007 16:47

has anyone had any use of card shuffler do they damage the cards Question


Good point... I saw one at Target the other night for something like $6 or $7 and was wondering how good it was?? It seems that whenever I shuffle cards, they always look like I didn't shuffle them.

Jim
      
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Thu, 25 October 2007 02:29
Whiterook wrote on Wed, 24 October 2007 09:29



Just want to mention again, it probably wouldn't hurt to plug your idea with Richard Borg via email. What the company web site says is policy, and what the designer will actually do on his own are two separate things. He's a real cool guy who is very proud of his games...you may hit his soft spot Very Happy


I would be willing to pitch the idea to Richard Borg directly but I don't know how to get a hold of him. Anyone know an address I could use to send something to him? Rolling Eyes
      
Roobarb
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Thu, 25 October 2007 02:41
http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?th=10667&start=0
11th post down look for RBORG Wink lots of luck Razz

[Updated on: Thu, 25 October 2007 02:42]

      
renza22
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Thu, 25 October 2007 03:26
I've played simplified games with my nephew (6 yo) and he loves it! Keeps bugging me to play again. No tactic cards and for the first few games, no section cards either.

What we did was to order 3 units per turn so that he could learn the basic movement, range, etc. After he got the hang of it, I introduced some towns he could hide in, then some forests, etc. It was a very incremental learning curve but he got the most kick out of attacking and rolling hits on my units, so it is a very addictive game for little ones.

As for the card shuffler, I use one and it works great. Have not seen much wear and tear on the cards but I will probably buy a replacement deck when it ships in November anyway as a back up.
      
50th
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  Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Thu, 25 October 2007 05:17
I've played the game with my nieces, one was twelve, one fourteen. They took to it fairly quickly. They may be older than the students you're talking about, but I've taught them other games before when they were younger. And everyone is right, sometimes they come up with strategies that make you think, "that will not work!" and then they surprise you. One of the games I had taught them a couple of years ago was Settlers of Catan They won that game a lot.
      
Whiterook
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Thu, 25 October 2007 18:54
Jim57 wrote on Wed, 24 October 2007 16:29

Whiterook wrote on Wed, 24 October 2007 12:32

A side note on shuffling...I hate when an opponent grabs the cards and does that shuffle thing where you bend the cards to shuffle the ends in. A real per peeve of mine. It just speeds the wear on the poor little buggers!


Didn't they used to say "Checkmate King 2 to Whiterook, over" in Combat! ? Been a long time. As for menitioning it when someone bends the cards... ON PURPOSE, Yeah I hate that too!! I also hate it when the get..."curled" in the center by someone trying to "hide" what they are. Sad Don't worry, I won't peek. I was playing with someone that did that with the cards from Ticket to Ride... I was cringing the whole time. I didn't want to sound... whiney, so I never mentioned it. Maybe I should have?? Sorry for getting off subject... Embarassed

Jim



Yeah, the Lieutenant (Hanley) was King2, and Sgt Sauders (my Avatar) was Whiterook. I think "Checkmate" stood for Head Quarters (i.e., Headquarters, Hanley, this is Sauders, over", but in code).

Glad to see there's someone else out there with the same pet peeve. I used to hold my tongue with "card destroyers", but I speak up now....mainly because a good game goes for between $50-200 these days! I wasn't so picky with my old RISK game, thoough I am now. When I host my regular Game Night, it's now a requirement to not bend the cards, and no greasy foods (Chips, KFC, whatever!). What a dictator, eh!?!
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Thu, 25 October 2007 19:07
Greasy food... Confused I was playing Settlers of Catan one weekend with my parents and my Dad was eating this old chocolate. It got all over his fingers and then all over some of my cards! Frown I couldn't believe it!

I have the same rule now about eating.
      
MarkoPolo
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Thu, 25 October 2007 20:12
Rasmussen81,

While we aren't able to donate games to schools, we do have an educational discount program offering 20% off to schools and teachers. If you are interested, let me know.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Thu, 25 October 2007 20:17
MarkoPolo wrote on Thu, 25 October 2007 11:12

Rasmussen81,

While we aren't able to donate games to schools, we do have an educational discount program offering 20% off to schools and teachers. If you are interested, let me know.



Wow, thanks! That's a great idea. I'll be able to teach my kids some stuff about WWII but a lot of the material is too advanced for third grade so I'll be more focused on simple concepts that the game uses. (Things like probability, simple strategy, basic WWII information, etc.)

My wife teaches Middle School history and this would be absolutely perfect for their WWII unit! I'll let you know MarkoPolo, and thanks for letting me know about the discount because I had no idea. Shocked Very Happy
      
Stavka227
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Fri, 26 October 2007 15:51
Also if the kids are really young, it pays to take out the "Taking Ground" and "Armour Overrun" abilities at least for the first few battles, and then segue them in as a new rule in another battle, the way the game chronologically builds in tanks, artillery, and terrain.
      
red_zebra
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Mon, 29 October 2007 02:58
I used card protectors from day 1. I just recycled them my Magic TG days. I have no problem shuffling them; in fact they protect the cards from shuffling wear and tear. The cards sit in the stadium holders without problems.
      
trumpetman52
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Re:Kid-Friendly M44 Thu, 01 November 2007 21:54
What are Card Protectors and Where can they be found?
trumpetman52
      
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