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Zeno
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EU Tourney pairings and seedings Sun, 20 January 2008 05:15
I am writing as the recorder of the Tournament. Onyx puffin is the TD, and any rules questions/rulings should be sent to him. Match results should be sent to me, and I will update the tourney grid. A pdf file of the tourney grid can be found

here

This file will be updated periodically.

Here are the seedings, collected by onyx

1.   psteinx 	3827
2.  thekid	3820
3.  Neozen 	3805
4.  Stephan1972 	3779
5.  Patterson 	3732 
6.  tewe 		3722	
7.  CoolJ		3685
8.   Drakestorm 	3675 
9.   Zeno		3670
10.   erps	3636
11.  Hecki 	3626
12.  Wasdenn	3623 
13.  Schwen 	3622
14.  Brian01	3616  
15.  leleline_M	3596 
16.  dizz 	3585 
17.  Zimo		3584
18.  Miguel Marques 3550
19.  SKMorefield 	3540 
20.  onyx puffin 	3540
21.  dea1 	3538
22.  El Sid	3535  
23.  Masimo	3535	
24.  koel player	3532  
25   Pammes	3520
26.  Karin1961 	3514 
27.  foudecoasters 3483
28.  alleyooper  	3468
29.  Sebast	3351      
30.  xennos 	3338 
31.  Azariah	3251
32.  Jackster111 	3070



First round games are

A: psteinx v jackster111
B: dizz v Zimo
C: Zeno v Koel Player
D: Pammes v drakestorm
E: Patterson v Alleyoops
F: dea1 v wasdenn
G: Schwen v onyx puffin
H: Sebast v Stephan1972

I: Neozen v Xennos
J: SKMorefield v Brian01
K: Hecki v El Sid
L: Foudecoasters v tewe
M: CoolJ v Karin1961
N: massimo v erps
O: Leleline_M v Miguel Marquez
P: Azariah v thekid

The second round pairings will be
(AB)(CD)(EF)(GH) (IJ)(KL)(MN)(OP)
with the winners playing each other and the losers playing each other. All games are to be rated and open. I will update subsequent pairings in this thread.

[Updated on: Sun, 20 January 2008 05:24]

      
thekid
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Re:EU Tourney pairings and seedings Sun, 20 January 2008 15:54
Quite simply I want to know the second account of the person I am scheduled to play. This is quite simply ridiculous. The guy played 0 games in 2007 sixty some in 2006 but all of a sudden in less than 15 days he's played about 60. This is not a newbie and shouldn't be ranked 31st and second accounts aren't allowed.
      
ACP Miguel
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Re:EU Tourney pairings and seedings Sun, 20 January 2008 16:27
1st u don't know if it's a 2nd account, so i think it's quite unfair to assume that form the start. just a user that played few games in 2006 and 2007 that comes back and wants to play a tournament. not allowed? why? give reasons?

2nd what's your proposal? to leave this guy out? just because u are suspicious that he's a 2nd account? define 2nd account...

3rd many users are not well ranked in Europe that doesn't mean they are not good in Europe(many of play less Europe, some play unrated) then let's make the seedings how? how to mesure real strenght?

Off Topic I also think Marie is better than rank 15. so i want to choose my opp! Laughing

so just play on. please note that winner of your game plays me or marie so this really concerns me

Miguel

      
thekid
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Re:EU Tourney pairings and seedings Sun, 20 January 2008 16:37
It's simple Miguel, he played no games for almost 2 years, last game 3/06, but has been reading the forums and magically sees the Europe tourney so now decides to start playing again. Silly to believe that. I know what I would do if I were running the tourney, it wouldn't help me, and I'm sure it will be different from what they decide, but we'll see what they want to do.

[Updated on: Sun, 20 January 2008 16:44]

      
ACP Miguel
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Re:EU Tourney pairings and seedings Sun, 20 January 2008 16:45
Sorry Kid but i have to disagree.

Even if u are right and it's a 2nd account that we are talking about the TD of this Tournament cannot simply based in your instinct and deduction to cut someone off.



      
thekid
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Re:EU Tourney pairings and seedings Sun, 20 January 2008 16:52
That's all we have here is instinct and looking at histories, as it's not a physical presence tourney. Anyone can go look at that history. Also go look at the players he magically got to play against recently. How did he know to go play in some of the higher ranked people's games. Because he knows who they are. Like I said, if it's me running it, I know what I would do and like I said it wouldn't help me. And again we'll see what they decide.
      
Azariah
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Re:EU Tourney pairings and seedings Sun, 20 January 2008 17:00
thekid wrote on Sun, 20 January 2008 09:54

Quite simply I want to know the second account of the person I am scheduled to play. This is quite simply ridiculous. The guy played 0 games in 2007 sixty some in 2006 but all of a sudden in less than 15 days he's played about 60. This is not a newbie and shouldn't be ranked 31st and second accounts aren't allowed.


No 2nd account. Simply graduated from college in 2006, didn't really have time to play TTR, and stopped playing for a while. At the beginning of this year, I started playing again, and have played 60 games in 15 days. No, I'm not a newbie, but unfortunately most of my games were before the rankings splits, so I don't have the points in the 2P/Euro rankings.

Either way you're probably going to mop the floor with me.

And, for the record, I started playing, then saw the thread, so I asked to be included, as Europe is the board I like to play more than US, so I thought I'd cut my teeth in the "competative TTR" world on a format I'm more comfortable with.

[Updated on: Tue, 22 January 2008 02:12]

      
thekid
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Re:EU Tourney pairings and seedings Sun, 20 January 2008 17:03
Azariah wrote on Sun, 20 January 2008 11:00


No 2nd account. Simply graduated from college in 2006, didn't really have time to play TTR, and stopped playing for a while. At the beginning of this year, I started playing again, and have played 60 games in 15 days. No, I'm not a newbie, but unfortunately most of my games were before the rankings splits, so I don't have the points in the 2P/Euro rankings.

Either way you're probably going to mop the floor with me, so why be an arrogant bitch about it?



And you happen to be reading the forums too a lot too I see. And you know all about the ranking splits. Quite a lot of knowledge for someone who was gone then. Please. It reeks and it's obvious. So who are you?

[Updated on: Sun, 20 January 2008 17:06]

      
Azariah
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Re:EU Tourney pairings and seedings Sun, 20 January 2008 17:08
thekid wrote on Sun, 20 January 2008 11:03

And you happen to be reading the forums too a lot too I see. And you know all about the ranking splits. Quite a lot of knowledge for someone who was gone then. Please. It reeks and it's obvious. So who are you?


I'm not going to get into a drag-out argument over it, because it's obvious you don't want to believe me, but my statement in my previous post is 100% true.

Who am I? A standard recently-out-of-college American nerd who has a habit of getting really really into something, chasing it for a while, and then moving away from it if I don't really have any friends into it as well. Sometimes I come back to it, sometimes I don't. But whenever I'm involved in something, I put a serious amount of effort into it, such as checking the forums once or twice a day when I signed up for an event that's being administered through the forums.

You can believe I'm trying to scam you if you want. I'm not, and I was rather hoping that I would see some sportsmanship in the competitive TTR world, but I guess all I can do at this point is play it out and hold up my end of the sportsmanship gig.

Good luck to you, sir.
      
thekid
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Re:EU Tourney pairings and seedings Sun, 20 January 2008 17:13
Azariah wrote on Sun, 20 January 2008 11:08

But whenever I'm involved in something, I put a serious amount of effort into it, such as checking the forums once or twice a day when I signed up for an event that's being administered through the forums.



Funny I don't remember you being in a tourney before. But this says you were. Gotcha Smile. Must have been that other name then.

[Updated on: Sun, 20 January 2008 17:15]

      
foudecoasters - Cerdon
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Re:EU Tourney pairings and seedings Sun, 20 January 2008 19:04
mon adversaire, tewe, me parait aussi trop fort...on peut me le changer SVP Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy .

non, juste je ne comprend pas tres bien l'anglais, mais je suis OK avec miguel ! Bref, onyx a préciser que ce tournoi était pour le FUN .... ca commence mal à ce niveau là.... suspiscion, intrigue, scandale, manoeuvre politique, ....Hummm un grand THRILLER lol Very Happy Bon tournoi à tous ( good tournament for all ! )
      
Alleyooper
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Re:EU Tourney pairings and seedings Sun, 20 January 2008 20:41
It's simple Miguel, thekid showed no humour for almost 2 years, last joke 3/06, but has been reading the forums and magically sees the Europe tourney "FOR FUN" clause so now decides to start joking again. Silly to believe that. I know what I would do if I were running the tourney, it wouldn't help Azariah, and I'm sure it will be different from what they decide, but we'll see what they want to do.

--------------------------------

and to Azariah, greetings! I too have suffered outrageous and unprovoked slandering [Joke! Laughing] from the TTR community for being a well informed newbie. It is a cruel and nasty world out there. thekid is trying to do what we in Australia call "sledging" - getting inside your head to make you play to less than your potential, thus increasing his chances of winning. Some tips:

> don't be defensive, it just encourages more attacks
> counter attacks are the trick, using revealed weaknesses. For thekid, remind him how many ranking points he stands to lose every time he plays you and tell him that you are a much better player than your ranking suggests. Pretend that this is your second account, it will infuriate him - eg drop hints that you are actually kolmo

All the best!

[Updated on: Thu, 24 January 2008 11:29]

      
thekid
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Re:EU Tourney pairings and seedings Sun, 20 January 2008 21:07
Alleyooper wrote on Sun, 20 January 2008 14:41

It's simple Miguel, thekid showed no humour for almost 2 years, last joke 3/06, but has been reading the forums and magically sees the Europe tourney "FOR FUN" clause so now decides to start joking again. Silly to believe that. I know what I would do if I were running the tourney, it wouldn't help Azariah, and I'm sure it will be different from what they decide, but we'll see what they want to do.



Hi, Baron good to see you're back. Can't hide that writing style.
      
DrakeStorm
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Re:EU Tourney pairings and seedings Mon, 21 January 2008 00:38
thekid very well might be right, but not sure you can do much about it.

It could be some top who is ok at Europe but doesn't want to lose massive points in a tournament so is using another account.

And I still think Alleyooper is the Baron, and if it is, I'd consider it a second account, eventhough all his other accounts have probably expired so technically this would be a main account. Again, does it really matter.

I think in these tournaments the bigger problem is playing open games. I've played Psteinx and he's pretty darn good, so going 3-2 against the lowest seed seems odd. Maybe he got Athina-Edin a bunch of times or no locos or something, but it could have just as easily been from someone observing the game. I'm not accusing anyone, I'm just making a point that being worried about someone on a second account is pointless when this threat would have a much bigger impact on the result of a match.

      
onyx puffin
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Re:EU Tourney pairings and seedings Mon, 21 January 2008 05:06
OK, I am responding to the curious Azariah situation.

I am trying to enter the foray with caution and wisdom.

I certainly understand thekid's hesitancy to play Azariah in a match with the games open. So my suggestions and what I would allow in this case, is for the games with Azariah to be played closed! No view from any other players.

As I have seen in the FORUM, thekid's arguments for this being a second account seem somewhat sound, but not overwhelming necessarily. So no way at this time can I disqualify Azariah from the tournament; but certainly it is suspicious. So play the games: private, no view, closed, whatever the term may be where a person cannot cheat since the game cannot be observed.

Hope this provides a solution.

If it does not chrismmm_1987 and I will discuss what we should do.

My other hope is that someone from DoW will contact me regarding the Azariah account, and if they know if it is a second account.

One final notation about this mess: Last year, my son who had played thekid many times years ago as he remembers, joined the tournament as a favor to me so we would have 32. His account last year would look similar to the Azariah history, and it would look similar again if he had entered this year which he did not even though I did ask him. Just thought I should share that notation as well, not to defend the Azariah situation, but to say I am cautious.
onyx puffin

[Updated on: Mon, 21 January 2008 05:07]

      
onyx puffin
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Re: second account situation Mon, 21 January 2008 05:18
second account situation:

I need to state one more thing in this FORUM note:
I have known thekid for about as long as this website has offered games. He is an upright player, and in the past he has indeed found people who were cheating!!!

So I have to tell you I do listen to him in these matters and take them seriously.

If I can determine there was cheating here, I will replace Azariah and ask one of my friends in the ttr world to take his/her place.

[Updated on: Mon, 21 January 2008 05:19]

      
dizz
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Re:EU Tourney pairings and seedings Mon, 21 January 2008 05:27
<sigh> Sad

I find this astonishing. Disappointing. And quite sad, really. Drake, jersey, you're my countrymen and I respect you as players and even like you as people more often than not, but PLEASE!

What sort of recommendation is it for the "competitive TTR set" that anyone new who shows any sort of talent or propensity for the competitve side of this game is suspected of "multiple accounts" (if not personalities, in general Twisted Evil) and/or insinuations about cheating because they played well enough (and don't forget - this is the Europe map - generally accepted by any player worth his/her salt to be more susceptible to luck) to LOSE 3-2 against the top seed.

Good gosh, people, that's the stuff good tourneys are made of, isn't it? Who enjoys completely predictable results all the time? What's the point if the possibilities for upset aren't there? Why don't we just line everyone up at some appointed time and hand out titles according to established rank? But hey, if we drive all these players off with our paranoid suspicions and accusations, that's about all we'll be left with in the end, anyway. Sounds like a helluvalotta fun. Razz

I have played more games with Azariah, Alley and the "lowest seed" than probably all the rest of this EU tournament's players put together. And hey, if they're someone other than who they purport to be, good on 'em for a successful snow job of a somewhat ditzy dame who somehow barely keeps herself in the "competitive set" as it is. (And are you completely sure she's not someone else, after all?) I refuse to be so paranoid (and maybe it's not my right as a never-will-be-top-twenty-player-anyway) as to suspect every new, talented, up-and-comer who wants to join up in a tourney of deceit and subterfuge. The game and the tournament outcome may be that important to some, but I have to say it takes some of the shine off of it for me and I'll wager for those on the other end of these fairly baseless accusations. It would be regrettable indeed to lose new talent we seem to so wish to have during NC (do I have to live through the trans-national debate again? Shocked ) because of this behavior.

I've been so anxious to encourage new players to prepare for tourneys as I have found the "competitve set" to generally be an interesting and enjoyable (and even generous) bunch and I would sincerely wish not to have reason to regret that I had led these poor blokes to an unwitting and undeserved lynching rather than a good, old-fashioned board game tournament.

I acknowledge fully that cheating behavior has and, sadly, will continue to happen and that there have been those that have abused this community with their multiple accounts, questionable playing habits and even downright poor manners. But I hate to see it spoil all future trust toward actual new, truly funny and yes, even quite talented players who decide to activate that nifty little webcard and become competitive at a quaint little train game we all seem to enjoy.

-dizz

P.S. And for the record, Alley can't be Baron (as if BvS were the only one to ever have such a wicked sense of humor - for the world's sake and mine, I sincerely hope not Very Happy). Believe me, BvS and I had enough against each other that he would never accuse me of being the nicest player around, no matter how deep "undercover" he wished to be Razz. And Azariah, don't choose kolmo as Alley suggests - that's old hat. He's already been accused of being CoolJ, Taz and at least one or two others. If Alley were really Baron, he'd know all about that. Rolling Eyes




      
kolmo
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Re:EU Tourney pairings and seedings Mon, 21 January 2008 05:43
Are you becoming a born-again snob, kid ?
      
thekid
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Re:EU Tourney pairings and seedings Mon, 21 January 2008 05:46
Hi Dizz,

First of all the player isn't new, a 2 year hiatus and magically appearing. Second the player if you check his first post up there called me something, rhymes with witch, that only one other person has ever called me here. Interesting that that person is also playing in the tourney, hmmmmmm.

I am all for new players, I play everybody and encourage people all the time, once in awhile dispense a tip or 2, you saw me do it once I believe. But I am not for giving people 2 shots at me or anyone else in a tournament. It is about honor and trust. Good days, bad days I am here and on a bunch of other sites as thekid, or the_kid, if its taken, I play as no one else.
      
DrakeStorm
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Re:EU Tourney pairings and seedings Mon, 21 January 2008 08:01
dizz wrote on Sun, 20 January 2008 20:27


What sort of recommendation is it for the "competitive TTR set" that anyone new who shows any sort of talent or propensity for the competitve side of this game is suspected of "multiple accounts" (if not personalities, in general Twisted Evil) and/or insinuations about cheating because they played well enough (and don't forget - this is the Europe map - generally accepted by any player worth his/her salt to be more susceptible to luck) to LOSE 3-2 against the top seed.



I apologize to Jackster111, I did not intend to imply I thought they cheated. I was just trying to make a point that the whole second account concern is rather minor compared to if someone cheated (i.e. who cares who you play as long as they don't cheat).

And I apologize to Alleyooper, but I still think they are the Baron!! The writing style, when they appeared, what formats they played, who they played, etc. I don't really care, and if the Baron did get banned by DoW, then I'm all for this alternate account to get around 'big brother'.


      
AAA_dea1
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Re:EU Tourney pairings and seedings Mon, 21 January 2008 10:14
Shall we open the TPOE (= top players opponent exchange)?
Better seeded players who don't like their opponent offer a swap to other top players who don't like their's? Rolling Eyes

Off we go ...
kid offers to trade Azariah
any response?

A hint to the kid ... if you offer a decent extra bonus wasdenn might agree Laughing Laughing Laughing

Back to business
Can everyone please stop that and play whoever you get as opponent without complaining!
If you are the best you should be able to beat anyone, second account or not - correct?

      
Stephan1972
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Re:EU Tourney pairings and seedings Mon, 21 January 2008 11:36
Onyx, I would just like to clarify this. Can the higher-ranked player always ask for a game to be played closed? Or is this only the case against players which the TD decides are in some sense "untrustworthy"?

I totally agree that these insinuations (especially aimed at lower-ranked, or less experienced players) very much spoil the fun (especially for those on the receiving end, I imagine!).

If you really are going to go this route I would prefer some objective rule, to stop this sort of thing getting personal, e.g. if it is your first competitive tournament then your opponent has the right to play a closed match.

Anyway, that's my two pence worth. Hope you all have fun Very Happy
      
thekid
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Re:EU Tourney pairings and seedings Mon, 21 January 2008 14:32
dea1 wrote on Mon, 21 January 2008 04:14

Can everyone please stop that and play whoever you get as opponent without complaining!
If you are the best you should be able to beat anyone, second account or not - correct?




Like I said before it's about trust to me more than winning. I have already told them I will take a loss, I won't withdraw, but I will immediately go to the losers bracket. Anyone who thinks I'm a whiner, afraid or desperate to win should rethink that when I sit with a certain loss and then needing nine wins in a row and also him to not drop down to me again to win the tournament.

And another thing. If it is a second entry, your quote up there says it's OK. I can't imagine you really meant that.

[Updated on: Mon, 21 January 2008 15:41]

      
ACP Miguel
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Re: second account situation Mon, 21 January 2008 17:37
Onyx

When u say that Kid has pointed some users that were cheating are u assuming that whenever Kid points one they are cheating or 2nd accounts?

And based on that u are ready to allow the games to be closed?

I can't agree with that. Rules are not something that u break or mold when someone was something that they don't like, otherwise u would be spoilling the atmosphere, the fun of watching

I would be trully disappointed if that occurs.

I cannot understand why that user is untrustworthy than others...worse than Chris? than Stephan? than Zimo? based on what? only that that user didn't played in 2007. and others that did play many games cannot cheat? i just don't accept this prejudice!
      
thekid
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Re: second account situation Mon, 21 January 2008 17:41
MiguelMarques wrote on Mon, 21 January 2008 11:37


And based on that u are ready to allow the games to be closed?

I can't agree with that. Rules are not something that u break or mold when someone was something that they don't like, otherwise u would be spoilling the atmosphere, the fun of watching

I would be trully disappointed if that occurs.

I cannot understand why that user is untrustworthy than others...worse than Chris? than Stephan? than Zimo? based on what? only that that user didn't played in 2007. and others that did play many games cannot cheat? i just don't accept this prejudice!


If you could read above, Miguel, the games won't be closed. I will take a loss, there will be no games. Then I will meet and gladly play you open.

[Updated on: Mon, 21 January 2008 17:43]

      
ACP Miguel
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Re: second account situation Mon, 21 January 2008 17:59
questions were to Onyx since he's TD, and i disagree with his position.

      
thekid
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Re: second account situation Mon, 21 January 2008 18:04
MiguelMarques wrote on Mon, 21 January 2008 11:59

questions were to Onyx since he's TD, and i disagree with his position.




You put me in your question making it seem like I was asking for closed games. I have asked for no special treatment whatsoever and have said I will just take a loss and move on. What you should actually be questioning is something else.
      
DrakeStorm
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Re: second account situation Mon, 21 January 2008 21:36
thekid wrote on Mon, 21 January 2008 09:04

I will just take a loss and move on.


I just don't understand this. The only thing I can come up with is you are afraid of losing your precious rating points. If it is a Top player's second account you would lose like 7 points a game instead of the normal 4. So if you lost the round 0-3 it would be a loss of 21 vs. 12. Are the 9 points so precious to your quest for "The Nine", that you can't play in a Tournament you signed up for that was headlined as "for fun".

Or maybe you want an * next to the tournament so when you don't win, you can spout out how well you have done in tournaments, and don't need to count this first round in your results.

I mean what top's second account could it be that it would really make a difference in the seedings, by your standards you are the best player in the world, so you would be matched up with the 32nd best player in the world. So now you are concerned you might be matched up with the 12th or 15th or 20th best person - is there really much difference between those?

And have you ever considered you are wrong? I think not playing them is a much more serious offense. Its just selfish. In your head you might think, "hey, they get to the second round with a win, they have nothing to complain about." Well that is fine, but I bet there are alot of people who joined the tournament for Fun and to actually Play the game, not get byes.



      
thekid
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Re: second account situation Mon, 21 January 2008 22:06
DrakeStorm wrote on Mon, 21 January 2008 15:36

thekid wrote on Mon, 21 January 2008 09:04

I will just take a loss and move on.


I just don't understand this.



You're right you don't, and the only thing you could come up with has no factor in it whatsoever.

The real interesting thing the discussion has shown, regardless of who's right/wrong, is that the people posting don't care if it's a second account or a second entry. And that's a horrible appearance to project and a horrible precedent to set for future tournaments.
      
onyx puffin
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Re: second account situation Mon, 21 January 2008 22:12
As erps, thadd and shamogi would probably concur, being TD is not always an easy thing. I, being a nice guy, try to be accommodating. So let it be known, I was the one to suggest closed game. NOT thekid. thekid is ready to take the loss basically saying he could not make the arrangements for play that round. Thus to losers bracket.

I am not ready yet to make that call. I am still trying to get to bottom of this whole situation. Perhaps it was wrong of me to allow one to play closed when others cannot. But I have to tell you 2 reasons for my suggesting that:

a. I have been recipient of losing games against an opponent who cheated! Back in 2005. It was not in a tournament, but still where a second account was used to spy on the game I was playing. I could not believe it. (It was back then that I was ranked higher, and there was not as much competition as now.) I should also tell you that thekid was the one who put me onto that cheater. And just after that DoW suspended the accounts of the cheater. so yes, I take this seriously, and am attempting to check out the question. (as reply to Bean listed below this note, innocent is assumed, but when brought into question, one needs to look into it. All I am doing is looking into it. Currently there is no decision made yet.)

b. To me the easiest solution to have the tournament flow smoothly was for a closed game since we really do not know much about Azariah because we do not have a history with the person. I am attempting to be in conversation with Azariah beyond the ttr game site to help with this issue. Hopefully a phone or skype conversation.

No solution here will be perfect. But I will do my best.

[Updated on: Mon, 21 January 2008 23:32]

      
Mr Bean
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Re: second account situation Mon, 21 January 2008 23:03
once upon a time the civilised world went with "innocent till proven otherwise". guess that's out of the window ?????????????

in my opinion 2nd accounts are silly at the least and certainly unwanted in tournaments, but there must be more 'evidence' than has been presented so far !!
      
AAA_dea1
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T2R Nation Cup 2007 Winner

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Re: second account situation Mon, 21 January 2008 23:39
thekid schrieb am Mon, 21 January 2008 22:06


The real interesting thing the discussion has shown, regardless of who's right/wrong, is that the people posting don't care if it's a second account or a second entry.


Well, the idea of a second ENTRY never occurred to anyone (at least not to me) before you brought it up.
Wouldn't that be simply crazy?
What do you do if you end up scheduled against yourself?
Just imagine Azariah were ... Rolling Eyes ok, forget it Smile
And how much would it really help? If you are good enough you should be able to win with one entry and if you are not you're probably not going to win with two either.

I'm not fond of 2nd accounts - never had one myself and probably never will.
Others are, some reasons I understand (different accounts for different maps, or multi/2P accounts) others I don't.
But anyway - why not?
If you want to cheat you don't need one (any guest account will do, won't it?).

Ah, btw - maybe I should apologize to my opponents for NOT having a second account Rolling Eyes
If I played my late-night-bottle-of-wine-for-fun-games with a different account my 'competitive account' would be rated better and I would cost them less points if I win Twisted Evil Laughing Twisted Evil

[Updated on: Mon, 21 January 2008 23:41]

      
MarkoPolo
-= Crew =-
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Re:EU Tourney pairings and seedings Tue, 22 January 2008 01:25
Regarding this thread and it's accusations...

1. I will remind all the participants of the Competitive forum to show courtesy to each other. Yes, people have tried to cheat or take advantage of multiple accounts. No, it is not appropriate to accuse others of cheating based on circumstantial evidence. As your hosts, Days of Wonder is interested in making Ticket to Ride Online more inclusive, not less. Creating an environment of mistrust and accusation is NOT what we have in mind.

2. If you agree to play in an event, you also need to agree to the decisions made by the Tournament Director. If you have an issue, raise it with the TD and it is his or her responsibility to make a decision. Once a decision is made either play in the tournament or withdraw, it's up to you, but don't continue to badger either the TD or other players about it.

3. At DOW we have no proof that Azariah is playing a second account. The explanation that he has given seems plausible. Move on.

4. No name calling, swearing or personal attacks. See #1 above.

Thanks,
      
Azariah
Junior Member

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September 2005
Re:EU Tourney pairings and seedings Tue, 22 January 2008 02:18
I would like to apologize to thekid and retract my previous statement involving that word that rhymed with witch. There is no excuse for posting in haste or anger, and my response was uncalled for. It is my intention to provide a better example of sportsmanship in future posts and endeavors.
      
onyx puffin
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Re: second account situation Tue, 22 January 2008 06:03
As best I can ascertain through some checking up and cooperation from Azariah, I find Azariah's story checks out. I am convinced enough that this is not a duplicate account of some other top player. So as TD, we welcome Azariah into the tournament. Sometimes being cautious is a nuisance, but we do say welcome.

And thank you DoW for the response. I did not see it when I originally wrote this note.

[Updated on: Tue, 22 January 2008 06:06]

      
erps
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Re:EU Tourney pairings and seedings Tue, 22 January 2008 12:39
Hi

I have to admit that i can't stand it longer to remain silent Wink

I) I wrote it already to onyx but i have to add it here that i agree with Miguel: No rule change in the middle of a tournament for such a single case should be happen. We had for last years SPWC (add other letters if you wish...) the rule that the first rules were played closed if wanted, i think this should go for all/most tournaments (single tournaments, not NC or Tag Team).

II) Personally i think that in THIS case thekid is wrong, but generally regarding the double entry problem (not the double account problem, that is imho silly but not really a problem) he is absolutly right. If any top player is entering multiple times they multiply their chance to win this tournament. We all know the luck factor of this game and in a best of 5 you are quicker out than you can say "no locos!". The problem even is bigger with "not known" players. If thekid or me are entering with a second account and win the tournament what is the gain for us? We can't tell who we really are and the "ego boost" goes to an useless account. A "new" player with more accounts is able to leave the loser account behind using only the reputation account. Short: Entering a tournament with more than one account is the same cheating as watching games.

III) That even the top runner (psteinx) has a hard fight in a best of 5 is no surprise. And the chance is even higher in first round. And a real cheater had WON the match not lost 2:3, do you think? Personally i think that every player above some playing strength cannot lose in a best of N series with knowing all ticks and cards of the opponent. And we all know additionally that our american friends suck badly in tournaments (esp. psteinx Very Happy Twisted Evil )

IV) The now found solution is within the rules and no one can forbid thekid doing so. I think it is a pity for Miguel because under normal circumstances he would face a much weaker opponent. So this whole thing has an impact on the tournament. But we all know that Miguel is a member of TNT and they are always f***ed in tournaments by others Twisted Evil

V) I am apologizing to Alleyooper. I am still not sure that they are not the Baron but this is not important! As long as they are not showing the same odd behaviour as the last Baron instance it is okay for me. You have to understand my initial response, because the Baron is the reason for me losing interest and fun in this game. Some of you may find this delightful, but if you watch careful you can see that i am not the only one of the "old" ones who remain silent for long (SKM, Elric). Another reason is the absurd ranking / number one thing, but this is another story and may be told another time Wink

VI) The europe map sucks! Even if i am a little rusty, four games with one to three locos (and Edin Athen or another loco needed route), tunnels that cost you three additional cards and and ... are crap! Let's see what the tournament brings...

bye, erps
      
ACP Miguel
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Re:EU Tourney pairings and seedings Tue, 22 January 2008 16:23
The impact of Kid dropping the first game isn't that he plays me. is the suspicious mood that enters this Tournament...but u are right. nothing to prevent that.

      
psteinx
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Re:EU Tourney pairings and seedings Tue, 22 January 2008 16:37
Just to be clear, because a couple of folks mentioned my tight match...

I have no reason to think Jackster (my opponent) did anything nefarious in our match. It's possible for a lower ranked player to cheat in any open game, but that goes, theoretically, for well-known players as well as lesser known players. I don't think we should casually throw around accusations.

Jackster played a strong series against me. IIRC, I was the one doing most of the blocking (with varying degrees of success), not him. Perhaps he had a little luck too, and/or I did not play my best. In any case, as erps suggested, it should not be too surprising that a lower ranked player can take 2 games out of 5, or 3 out of 5 (or 3 of 3) for that matter.


[Updated on: Tue, 22 January 2008 18:41]

      
Nemo_
Senior Member

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December 2006
Re:EU Tourney pairings and seedings Tue, 22 January 2008 18:37
I've played against Jackster too, i know he is a good player because he's won me few time with skills.
And usually our game have been unrated so why he would cheat?
It wasn't surprise to me that he played that well against psteinx.
I could not even think that he would be a cheater.
      
express--
Member

Posts: 47
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October 2006
Re:EU Tourney pairings and seedings Wed, 23 January 2008 07:50
Ok I'm pretty new to writing in the forums (read them but don't often write in them) but though I'd respond to part of this post....
I really enjoy playing TTR, if not only for the strategy (although those that play with me may not always see a strategy there!!) but for the competitiveness. I say competitiveness not on a stress-filled level, but one of challenge combined with fun. That's truly how I look at it. If I ever lose that, I won't play anymore. But I just don't think we should be "accusing" people in the forum of things or blaming people in the forum for things. If you don't want to play, just don't play, don't blame someone for it. Everyone makes their own decisions based on many factors -- that doesn't mean we have to roll over and play dead, we just have to be tactful (and kind I guess). We all remember what our mothers taught us: If you don't have anything nice to say....well you know the rest!
By the way, as a "forum reader" I do miss Baron's posts (most of them!). TTR is NOT a major part of my life that I would ever stress over and I found them to be quite well-written (and quite possibly even entertaining at times)as a part of the game. And yes, erps, I realize you are happy he's gone and I won't get into all that but why keep bringing it up again? Is that really productive? It really makes me think when we drive others away from this game -- after all who are we to control it? We all have some players that go against our own grain (even me) but we've got to look above and beyond those times. Ok I'll get back to my peaceful express-- state now.....
TTR is fun, it's a game and I sure hope that we will never push people away (thanks for staying Alley!) due to negative thoughts and possibly posts. Sometimes some things are better thought in one's head versus said out loud as we all know.
Anyways, I do realize nobody's perfect, for sure not me. We ALL have our "moments".
I still love playing TTR and will continue to do so of my own choice. Here's hoping you see at least some truth in all this....ok yes, it's from my point of view, but I'm hoping I'm on the right track...
Peace Smile
express--
      
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