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jerrytel
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Card question Mon, 05 July 2004 05:12
This may be a dumb question, but I am tired of looking through all the posts to get an answer...What happens if none of the cards in my hand can be used, or does not apply to my current deployment?

Thanks in advance.

Jerrytel
      
isbert
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Re:Card question Mon, 05 July 2004 05:29
This official ruling is from the FAQ:

Bad Hand
Q. When a player cannot play any of his Command Cards (because he does not have any units in the appropriate sections), does he discard a card and do not play at all at this turn?
A. You may play a section card for a section where you do not have any units. No units are ordered and thus you will not do anything but discarding a card, and draw another.

http://www.memoir44.com/index.php?t=content&sub=faq& rid=545&S=33252b67022b397723107a545d720e0e#badh

Happy Independence Day!

Game on,

      
jerrytel
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Re:Card question Mon, 05 July 2004 05:31
Thanks!!!

That is a crappy rule...maybe a house rule could be discard 1 or more of your cards - it is possible that you will just get another card you can't use - just a thought.

Thanks again

JT
      
isbert
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Re:Card question Mon, 05 July 2004 05:36
I agree -- I would like to hear if the designer has a concrete reason for this rule and how the playtesting went with it in place.

Take Care,
      
Texas gamer
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Re:Card question Mon, 05 July 2004 06:22
The playtesting probably showed that this was the best way to handle it, hence the rule. Generally it's play a card and take another. Having a special replenishment in a turn would be an exception, something Mr. Borg seems to try to avoid.

It is an improvement over Battle Cry, since there is the "order one unit" addendum if you have none of the special unit on some cards. In our games to date, it is rare indeed that you cannot do ANYTHING and must discard without making a play. You often can only do things you might not prefer - realistic, no?

And if you MUST DISCARD?...that's tough, that's life, that's war, that's the rule.

UNLESS you have a house rule that says otherwise.

      
jerrytel
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Re:Card question Mon, 05 July 2004 06:57
Good Point - but after 2 or 3 in a row, which could be possible, that is broken...just my opinion though.
      
komichido
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Re:Card question Mon, 05 July 2004 07:38
It has happenend to me once. I sucked it up and gritted my teeth. Boy did I have big plans! Alas it must have been the comm line or the ammo supply or some such thing that prevented me from doing anything that turn. Thank goodness whatever fouled me up was back on track the next round. I do see your point how that could be down right devastating if you could not get a decent card 2 or 3 times in a row though. I hope Murphy stays the hell away from me!

Komi
      
isbert
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Re:Card question Mon, 05 July 2004 13:57
I suppose another thing to think about is to try to avoid a situation where you have less cards that will do you good. In other words, if you have 5 cards, and four of them are for left flank moves, and you have all your units in the right and center flanks, you might want to play a card to get some units in the left flank.

Just an idea for playing with the hand you're dealt. Smile
      
GreatDane
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Re:Card question Mon, 05 July 2004 14:44
I have carried our house rule from Battle Cry with me into the new game. We simply allow a player to dump and redraw as many cards as he likes instead of playing a card.

- Although I have to add that we have never actually used this mulligan-option yet. Either have we just been lucky in our 20 games so far - or the cards are better balanced in this game.

[Updated on: Sat, 14 August 2004 20:07]

      
BloodyBucket
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Re:Card question Mon, 05 July 2004 21:36
My opinion, bearing in mind that it is worth exactly what I charge for it... Razz

M44 is a hand management game, and allowing for for a massive discard because you mismanaged your hand violates one of the basic design principles of the Command and Colors system.

To have a completely unusable hand in M44, you would have to have section cards exclusively for sections that you don't occupy. That is probably the result of not saving a card for a rainy day. It is possible to get very unlucky, but more probable, I'd guess, that the good cards were used as soon as they showed up.

Allowing a large discard rewards poor hand management, brings the rare tactic cards in to play more frequently than intended, and might even promote tooth decay.

In Battle Cry, where the tactic cards could not be used to activate any one unit if you could not use them as printed, there was a stronger case for a discard rule. Here I just don't see it.
      
Texas gamer
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Re:Card question Tue, 06 July 2004 05:43
[quote title=BloodyBucket wrote on Mon, 05 July 2004 14:36]
M44 is a hand management game, and allowing for for a massive discard because you mismanaged your hand violates one of the basic design principles of the Command and Colors system.

Excellent point and post.
      
jerrytel
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Re:Card question Tue, 06 July 2004 06:21
I agree - good point - however...

Don't assume that all cases will be the result of bad hand management. I am not saying it will or can be a common occurance, but still, I think that it could be broken, especially winding down a close scenario and your inability to do anything will result in leaving troops in the open to be routed.

But hey, that is just me. I understand that luck is greatly involved in this game, but a turn should be a turn.

Thanks for all your comments though.
      
BloodyBucket
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Re:Card question Tue, 06 July 2004 07:03
Yep, you could do everything "right" in a game, and still come up short.

Some gamers don't like that at all, some can live with it, and some enjoy it.

No right answer here, more of a question of taste.
      
jerrytel
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Re:Card question Tue, 06 July 2004 13:32
But, you are totally right - A set rule would open up the opportunity for abuse - I guess I had to sleep on it... Twisted Evil
      
Snowdog
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Re:Card question Tue, 06 July 2004 13:55
It's similar in a lot of ways to Up Front!, if you've ever played that -- I had a lot of hands where it was nothing but "discard, draw, discard, draw" looking for a fire card I could use to shoot at all the enemy troops bounding up next to me.

Also, it does a good job of demonstrating "command paralysis" in the event that your flank and/or center have disintegrated.
      
oivind22
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Re:Card question Thu, 08 July 2004 18:42
isbert wrote on Mon, 05 July 2004 13:57

I suppose another thing to think about is to try to avoid a situation where you have less cards that will do you good. In other words, if you have 5 cards, and four of them are for left flank moves, and you have all your units in the right and center flanks, you might want to play a card to get some units in the left flank.



That could take a long time, and things can happen fast in Memoir '44. A couple of overrunning tank units could wipe out several units in one turn.

I think BloodyBucket has some good points in his reply, but I still feel there's a need for a house rule sometimes. Maybe the house rule could be less powerful. What if you could only discard cards from the same section in one turn, and only if you don't have units in that section. For instance you could discard 3 cards for the left section if you don't have units there. You could not discard 1 card from the left section and 1 from the center section, even if you have no units in either section. This way it's more difficult to abuse the house rule (it takes time to save up 3 cards for the left section). And since things happen so fast in Memoir '44 it can be a serious disadvantage to do nothing during your turn, so you might not use this rule to discard/draw only 2 cards (you can always discard/draw 1 card anyway, by playing a card).
      
wayner2d2
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Re:Card question Thu, 08 July 2004 19:04
That sounds really reasonable. If I felt i had to incorporate a rule for dead hands this would be the one i would use. thanks.
      
isbert
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Re:Card question Fri, 09 July 2004 16:47
This is the house rule that I'm thinking about implementing.

In addition to the trade one:one instead of taking your turn, you can trade two:two once during the game (instead of taking your turn) IF you can't use any of your cards.
      
bitterboy
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Re:Card question Fri, 09 July 2004 19:30
I think fair house rule might be to discard 2 cards from the section in which you have no troops. I would not use such a rule in my games as I feel that the game is a hand management game and cards like "Recon" were put in to help with "bad draws". You might want to try both players shuffling the deck between games to make sure the cards are mixed up as evenly as possible. Sometimes bad luck is bad luck and you have to live with it... Sad


      
inquisitor
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Re:Card question Fri, 09 July 2004 21:47
This has been brought up a couple of times.

We don't need a house rule for this. I have played this game 30+ times and have yet to find a need to have a house rule for a bad hand.

I have had my share of nothing but left flank cards and having few units to move, but I also plan ahead and attempt to keep my units in position so they can be used in two different sections.

A few draws later, and I have balanced out my bad luck of drawing more of one card than another.

      
Tarheel
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Re:Card question Fri, 10 April 2009 15:34
Something we are trying out is that if the active player plays a card for a section where he has no units that may be activated, his OPPONENT chooses one section of the battlefield in which the active player may activate one unit.

Rather than total paralysis, you are getting something done, albeit with your opponents benevolent (yeah right) help...think of it representing the enemy doing something on that section of the battlefield which moves your high command to order you to do something there.
      
TommieSL
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Re:Card question Fri, 10 April 2009 16:11
Dude - this thread is 5 years old!!

However, since you raised the question, I have to make comment.
In the 5 years (and many games) that I've been playing Memoir I've never witnessed this so called 'problem'.
I've had games where I've played a card and done nothing, that's an integral of the game, at times, when you're happy with your position but want to churn a card and see what the deck offers.
By all means make your own rules to handle whatever areas you're not comfortable with, it is your game afterall, but for me, the rules themselves handle the situation very nicely. Play any card and draw another.

[Updated on: Fri, 10 April 2009 16:13]

      
Tarheel
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Re:Card question Fri, 10 April 2009 16:24
The game is fine as is, however we like to give a 'twist' once in a while as a variant.
      
Freeloading Phill
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Re:Card question Sat, 11 April 2009 13:36
We play with two house rules that work really well to deal with this potential problem.

1) Modified Recon
For Recon cards add the 2 cards drawn and discard any card from your hand.

This has made Recon a real option building for the future when we would usually play the order that moved the most units.


2) Plan B
Once in a game, as your turn, you may discard your hand and draw back up to one card less.

This has only happened once and in the turn of delay my troops were pummelled.

Phill
      
    
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