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Nemo_
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Re:Blocking - An Endless (But Always Interesting) Discussion Wed, 23 July 2008 10:02
GameJunkieJim wrote on Wed, 23 July 2008 06:06

Just bought the board game a couple weeks ago, and registered here this morning, and have to say that I cannot believe this is an issue at all.

I'm a new player. I don't have a tenth of the experience of most of the people here probably. However I can say that blocking is A-OK.

Not that I've done it much, I'm usually more worried about completing my own tickets.

But if you are able to complete your tickets, maintain your score, and still successfully block my route, good for you. Well played and all that.

Complaining about an aspect of the game that makes it harder for you to win is poor sportsmanship. It's competition, plain and simple. The object is to win. The goal is to have fun. If you can't have fun playing the game as it was intended, maybe you need a different game, or to agree on house rules beforehand.

There is a reason you draw the destination tickets in secret. The other players aren't supposed to know what they are. If you claim your routes in an obvious fashion, you have nobody but yourself to blame when your route gets blocked on purpose.


Correct.

His new here, but still he understands something which some others havent never undertood, even after many games.

[Updated on: Wed, 23 July 2008 10:04]

      
cppfreak
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Re:Blocking - An Endless (But Always Interesting) Discussion Thu, 24 July 2008 14:40
When I play TTR I hardly block other people unless it would block one of my routes. It can be really annoying to say "I don't block" and watch your opponent(s) block your routes. Blocking aggressively is totally different. A friend I play with blocks a lot and it can get annoying. Mad That's my take on the subject.
Cppfreak
      
GameJunkieJim
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Re:Welcome, GameJunkieJim Thu, 24 July 2008 19:43
Peter de Zeeuw wrote on Wed, 23 July 2008 03:47

GameJunkieJim, welcome to the community. Very Happy

D.I.S.



And I thank you.
      
Black Baron
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Re:Welcome, GameJunkieJim Thu, 24 July 2008 23:36
No Message Body

[Updated on: Sat, 26 July 2008 15:38]

      
Jemira
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Some thoughts on the blocking/no blocking discussion Fri, 25 July 2008 00:52
First off I want to say while although I do find deliberate blocking frustrating it is definitely a strategic part of the game but I think I can help explain why at least some people prefer games without too much completely intentional blocking. Its all a matter of what about this game or any game makes you want to play. I am part of a weekly board gaming group that plays many different types of games over the last 7 years or so and everyone has different play styles and goals. I'd say though at least with my grp there are 3 main types of players.

Type 1 plays to win will do anything within the rules of the game to win including hurting other players as long as it does not hurt themselves. These players like learing different strategies and will use both passive and aggressive strategies to win the game.

Type 2 players like the conflict in games not only do they intentionally harm others but they enjoy it when someone pays them back. In most games they prefer aggressive strategies to win.

Type 3, which is where I would fit most of the time play to complete goals and get satisfaction in completing them more so than necesarily winning. I tend to use strategies that are passive but still allow me to do well. For example in ttr I tend to hold a bunch of cards before placing much of anything so I can connect my tickets without having to worry much about interference even if I waste a bunch of turns while doing so. Now don't get me wrong I love it when I win and I play to win, but that's not what I'm really thinking about when I play.

Now in the group I play with in person only 1 of us ever blocks completely just to mess up someone elses route but we also play only with 4-5 people so as many of you have said unless it is a crucial block it is more likely to waste your time then win you the game. When I first started playing online although it didn't happen much if I got blocked by someone who never even attempted to connect that route to the rest of their trains I did get irritated, but I just learned to work around it or hide my routes better. Even now though if I have an opportunity to block say on the last round when I know that it will most likely win me the game cause they haven't connected there 2 sections I don't do it because I don't have fun that way. I'd rather take the ticket gamble even if its very risky.

None of these ways to play are better then another its just a different way to play. Most people probably have some characteristics of all these play styles but are more likely to play a certain way and would prefer to play with others that do too. I will add that sometimes we also have people who don't fit into any of these categories and play just to be social and participate. They don't lose on purpose but they don't have much drive to win or complete things either. Also we all have varying degrees of how much we like randomness in games. All of these factors determine what games are our favorites and which ones we don't like to play often or at all. Some games such as TTR are great because they offer so many different ways to play and have a balance between luck and strategy that they are great for anyone to play but can also cause conflict if people are not aware of different playstyles. Anyway I just thought I might be able to help explain why even though blocking is a part of the game why some people get no enjoyment out of getting blocked or blocking others. I think plenty of people have already explained why they do block and I agree to be a competitive player you have to in some situations.

Thanks for taking the time to read my thoughts.
Jemira
      
kolmo
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Re:Some thoughts on the blocking/no blocking discussion Tue, 29 July 2008 22:42
I agree with you, Jemira.

Thinking competition is built into the game rules is the sorriest way to protect oneself from lack of common social skills.
      
Black Baron
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Re:Some thoughts on the blocking/no blocking discussion Wed, 30 July 2008 09:41
you know kolmo,

I'm fairly bright but you must be on WHOLE nuther level man. I have never befoere experienced what it was like to read something someone said several times and STILL not be totally sure of what was said, until some of your posts.

Seriously man, I think your I.Q. must be off the charts.

Now. having said that please explain to me something. Was your comment meant as a "dig", "burn", "jab" or "razz" to Jemira, or just to some of the people he/she plays with?

Because if it was a jab at Jemira , I think that would discourage the very thing Peter started the post for. Peter wanted to get opinions from others who have differnt views on blocking and since this isn't even the competative play forum, I for one appreciated Jemira's post. I may not agree with all of it, but it Jemira took the time to write it and help explain another point of view. I personally think that should be encouraged rather than discouraged. Cool Cool

Then again, since I'm not 100% sure of exactly what your comment meant, maybe you are encouraging open and free discussion also. Very Happy

Baron
      
kolmo
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Re:Some thoughts on the blocking/no blocking discussion Wed, 30 July 2008 15:10
Thanks for your generosity, B

Really, there were two sentences. The first one was commending Jemira's analysis. She was making some very useful distinctions to defuse the whole debate. Basically, what she means is that people play for all kinds of reasons, and that the reason why you play should be shared with the ones you play with, if the experience is to be enjoyable.

The other sentence was a psychological explanation as to why often enough one appeals to the rules to justify one's behaviour. This explanation was of the same kind you gave when trying to explain why people do not want competition when playing a game. I think that this is exactly why my comment ticks you off.
      
Black Baron
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Re:Some thoughts on the blocking/no blocking discussion Thu, 31 July 2008 16:43
kolmogorov wrote on Wed, 30 July 2008 09:10

Thanks for your generosity, B
.


I was not being facetious just in case you were wondering.

kolmogorov wrote on Wed, 30 July 2008 09:10

I think that this is exactly why my comment ticks you off.


Where did I say your comment ticks me off? I'm confused because I wasn't ticked off (angry). Perhaps ticks off means something else in french?




      
Buckeyemark
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Re:Blocking - An Endless (But Always Interesting) Discussion Tue, 07 October 2008 00:20
This weekend I was in a game with someone who has played 9,000 games and had a 300ish ranking. I blocked him on a route because I felt that I had a weak set of cards and if I allowed him to connect to that city that he would certainly out-point me. The guy began to call me names and called me a (bip) plus other real names. I politly said that I felt blocking was an acceptable strategy. He told me to go to.... I was pretty upset by the whole ordeal when I wnt to the lobby and found him trashing me there. Apparently some people, even those who have played 9,000 games don't get it. This is a GAME. Entertainment. Isn't there some sort of "code" out there that unless you host a game and put "fair" in the title that anything goes?

I would encourage people to be kind to how they treat each other in the chat area. We should treat each player as if we were talking to our Mother. I occasionally suffer poor treatment if I play too slow or come from a certain part of the world. Some of the players can be cruel and rude in their discussions. I wish that more of the people in the lobby would call the trash talkers on this and ask them to behave.
      
stemayf
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Re:Blocking - An Endless (But Always Interesting) Discussion Tue, 07 October 2008 13:38
Remember, you can report this abuse to DOW who are always keen to know and clamp down on those who do not adhere to their policy. Taking a screenshot at the time and sending that as proof with undoubtedly help.

      
TuS WhiteTrain
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Re:Blocking - An Endless (But Always Interesting) Discussion Sun, 16 November 2008 18:38
BLOCKERS ARE BAD PEOPLE !!!
      
Zasdert Ultun
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Re:Blocking - An Endless (But Always Interesting) Discussion Sun, 16 November 2008 18:50
WhiteTrain wrote on Sun, 16 November 2008 12:38

BLOCKERS ARE BAD PEOPLE !!!


No, just good strategists Very Happy

There is no where in the rules that states blocking isn't allowed.
      
Mr Bean
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Re:Blocking - An Endless (But Always Interesting) Discussion Sun, 16 November 2008 19:02
Zasdert Ultun wrote on Sun, 16 November 2008 18:50

WhiteTrain wrote on Sun, 16 November 2008 12:38

BLOCKERS ARE BAD PEOPLE !!!


No, just good strategists Very Happy

There is no where in the rules that states blocking isn't allowed.


I was inclined to give the blockers some lee-way, but when someone from the club of NR ONES says so, it must be true:

BLOCKERS ARE BAD PEOPLE !!!
For the good of our community they must be punished in a most horrible way as an example to all those who even think of blocking.


      
Nemo_
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Re:Blocking - An Endless (But Always Interesting) Discussion Sun, 16 November 2008 19:44
Zasdert Ultun wrote on Sun, 16 November 2008 19:50

WhiteTrain wrote on Sun, 16 November 2008 12:38

BLOCKERS ARE BAD PEOPLE !!!


No, just good strategists Very Happy

There is no where in the rules that states blocking isn't allowed.



Zasdert, it fair to tell, dont take it so seriously.

White Train is ttr current rank #1,(and "böse blöckerin") so guess you can think something about that
Laughing
      
Zasdert Ultun
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Re:Blocking - An Endless (But Always Interesting) Discussion Sun, 16 November 2008 20:17
I guess he has some influence Laughing

I didn't realize that he was that good. If he has gotten that far without blocking, that definitely says something. And then there's me, under 1500 ELO. Embarassed It wasn't meant very seriously, just a "smart" remark after something shouted in big red letters.

At least I had a smile after my text in my original post.


Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile
See how nice I am?
      
Nemo-fish
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Re:Blocking - An Endless (But Always Interesting) Discussion Sun, 16 November 2008 20:50
No Message Body

[Updated on: Sun, 16 November 2008 21:00]

      
Nemo_
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Re:Blocking - An Endless (But Always Interesting) Discussion Sun, 16 November 2008 21:12
I know you're nice Smile

I just wanted you to know, that you wont use your time to those "funny guys", unless you want to gain your number of posts Very Happy
      
TuS WhiteTrain
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Re:Blocking - An Endless (But Always Interesting) Discussion Mon, 17 November 2008 00:41
Zasdert Ultun schrieb am Sun, 16 November 2008 20:17

I guess he has some influence Laughing

I didn't realize that he was that good. If he has gotten that far without blocking, that definitely says something. And then there's me, under 1500 ELO. Embarassed It wasn't meant very seriously, just a "smart" remark after something shouted in big red letters.

At least I had a smile after my text in my original post.


Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile
See how nice I am?


Hi,dont take me too serious Laughing Laughing Laughing there are times when blockers save the world Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

regards White

[Updated on: Mon, 17 November 2008 00:42]

      
joeyx2
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Re:Blocking - An Endless (But Always Interesting) Discussion Sat, 27 December 2008 01:54
I would like to add my two bits to this (long) thread, mostly because I was just rather rudely accused of blocking by a player called Monstarmaster when I wasn't even trying to block! (And by the way, how did he/she know I didn't need that route unless he/she was observing, which I DO consider cheating...)

I think that people who do not appreciate blocking simply enjoy the pleasure of connecting things together and coming up with a nice route. They are quite willing to leave the result of the game to the luck of the tickets and train cards drawn. They are content to work parallel to other players, somewhat like games based on solitaire where each player takes turns doing their own thing and the game is won by whoever gets there faster. Needing the same route as someone else is just bad luck and can't be avoided, but such players would have to admit that it would be a better game if an unlimited number of paths between cities were possible.

The fact that the number of paths between cities is limited intentionally by the game itself means that blocking has to be a (fair) part of the game!

Players who dislike blocking also usually dislike it when someone claims long routes for points only rather than forming part of a needed routes. Or when someone claims strategic routes early in the game, even before she has drawn cards that need that route. But there have to be strategies for balancing out the bad luck of drawing lots of short routes. Otherwise only those who draw the big East Coast - West Coast routes have a chance of winning and you can stop the game once the first cards have been drawn!

I remember the first time I was blocked. I was shocked because I hadn't even considered that possibility (the player caught NY in a web and my routes were made impossible)! In the end, it taught me more about the game. I've never been trapped around NY again. If I need NY, I make sure I get at least one thread started before they can be filled up. That's part of the risk of choosing big routes that include NY.

A good player knows that blocking for the sake of blocking carries a big risk and will usually lose you the game (assuming that no one is observing the game under another name and checking out what tickets the other player has drawn to block with lowest risk). The strategy around blocking includes blocking effectively while still building your own routes, timing the placement of key routes perfectly and reading hints the other players leave about where they want to build. That's not easy to do and I usually avoid blocking. But I use it occasionally as one of many strategies for balancing bad luck.

Of course, I dislike players who intentionally destroy a game by blocking without building anything themselves. Such players usually lose, but they do take the fun out of playing.

I welcome a game with anyone interested in having fun and getting to know the game better by pitting themselves against good, strategic players! No poor losers please...

joeyx2
      
Mr Bean
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Re:Blocking - An Endless (But Always Interesting) Discussion Sat, 27 December 2008 02:11
joeyx2 wrote on Sat, 27 December 2008 01:54

I would like to add my two bits to this (long) thread, mostly because I was just rather rudely accused of blocking by a player called Monstarmaster when I wasn't even trying to block! (And by the way, how did he/she know I didn't need that route unless he/she was observing, which I DO consider cheating...)



He couldn't have seen your tickets, because only the highest rated/ranked player's cards are shown and he has a (considerably) higher rating than you, so rest assured Cool

Apart from that, I think most good players would agree that blocking is really evil and blockers should be given jail sentences at least if there is no death penalty in their country Twisted Evil
      
joeyx2
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Re:Blocking - An Endless (But Always Interesting) Discussion Sat, 27 December 2008 02:22
Thanks for your reply. I am relieved it couldn't have been observing because I really hate that. But I guess the fact that lowly ranked me beat a highly ranked player so soundly (126 to 93 in a 2-player game) made him or her have to blame it on something!
      
mattsaddler
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Re:Blocking - An Endless (But Always Interesting) Discussion Sun, 04 January 2009 20:43
i think blocking i anti productive anyway cos when you approach the end of your game and ur short of trains to complete your journey you wont be feeling too clever
      
Winterbay
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Re:Blocking - An Endless (But Always Interesting) Discussion Sun, 04 January 2009 21:57
Interesting thread. As a somewhat new player (I have played 1 online game against 3 bots, which I lost due to missing some parts of the map...) I have not run into this problem yet. I do however feel that the so called malicious blocking is something I would not like. Blocking for the sake of blocking alone feels, somewhat, sub-optimal.

I would have no problem with someone building on a line that I want if they need it as well. No matter if this is done just because they wanted it and didn't suspect I wanted it or just because they suspected I wanted it.

There are a couple of cities on the maps that can be effectively blockaded by two, or even one set of trains (see for example Stockholm in the European version, or Kiruna in the Nordic version). This, to me, is a slight miss in the construction of the game and makes such stretches possibly a bit over-powered.

On the theme of playing for a win I would probably fail quite heavily since I usually play for fun no matter what I do, and winning isn't necessarily needed for fun Smile

Recently I played a 2-player game in Nordic setting where my opponent netted ~220 points, which was fun Smile (I "only" got about 140 points)
      
Nemo_
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Re:Blocking - An Endless (But Always Interesting) Discussion Sun, 04 January 2009 22:24
mattsaddler wrote on Sun, 04 January 2009 21:43

i think blocking i anti productive anyway cos when you approach the end of your game and ur short of trains to complete your journey you wont be feeling too clever


Its lack of skill, mate
      
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