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senorblanco
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  Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Fri, 31 October 2008 22:35
We all know about the usual blabla of kids dating problems but what the hell happened to the result of TA vs theTeam?!

I just heard from Pammes that an arrangement between the two players couldnt be found and so the TD decided FOR the Americans?!

As I read the word "forfeit" as a deciding game for the 2-3 for TA I thought it would be a matter of personal circumstances but what the hell is that?!

And give me good reasons...

GTS Mudda
      
Lucullupus
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  Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Fri, 31 October 2008 22:43
It seems to be like formula 1: Ferrari gets right, whatever happens... Confused Sad Embarassed
      
Pammes
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Fri, 31 October 2008 22:43
as i know,

our team-mate raimund was till tuesday off net because of computer problems (and thought tournament week goes as the weeks before from sunday to sunday, therefore had enough time to make arrangements)
as he came to know he was late he tried to make an arrangement with tprail, waited for him entire tuesday evening/night in the lobby

wednesday morning after the kid-sauvignon game came the decision of TD of forfeit

sauvignon asked for same time-spot as sos-true got for their last game (sjoerd-denmark) but was that denied and forfeit was confirmed by TD
that´s all i know of this
      
Mr Bean
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sat, 01 November 2008 00:21
I read the decision of the TD and i assume he did not take this decision lightly. We asked him because we trust his judgement, didn't we?

In the situation between TRUE and SOS something somewhat similar happened: both myself and Denmark hadn't realised (a bit foolish, i agree Embarassed ) the deadline was Wednesday instead of the usual (in RR anyway) following weekend.
When we found out on Saturday, i was available all of the 1st weekend and Monday and also Tuesday evening. However, Denmark could not be reached and since we had already thought to have fixed a date, it was logical that maybe he wouldn't be online in time.
Had he known the game needed to be played by Wednesday he might very well not have been in the line-up, because he was not available till Wednesday evening.

Although the TRUE captain did offer a forfeit on several occasions the 2 teams did their very best to try and prevent that by substituting, first thinking of a substitue for Denmark, then Denmark came online and was able to play Wednesday- or Thursday-evening, which unfortunately was not possible for me.
Luckily Sjoerd was able to substitute for me; if not, there would have been a second forfeit decision for the TD, i guess.

I don't know the details of the TT-TA match, but i trust the TD to know them and to have taken a fair decision based on what he knows, as i would have expected in our match as well had it been necessary.
Of course it is only a last resort, and you would wish the teams involved to do their best to find an alternative solution, but if that doesn't work out in order for the tournament to move on, there must be some sort of decision.
      
dizz
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sat, 01 November 2008 01:05
Very nice, guys.

I don't seem to remember much of anyone having a problem with the UEG-CAN TD decision (the big difference here being that kolmo was at least gracious in accepting the rules and OFFERING the forfeit). So, it's only questionable when it doesn't go the way we want it, eh? And where do I sign up to be TD next year? How many do we have to burn through that will never do it again because of all the crap they have to take for doing a job no one else wants to do?

<sigh> Honestly. I just don't know what to say to some of my friends here any more. Crying or Very Sad

I thought (and hoped) it was just "ugly americans" and their uglier politicians who start calling a decision "invalid" when a vote doesn't end up going their way.
      
senorblanco
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sat, 01 November 2008 01:08
So now it seems even more that the decision was made far too quick, not letting TA giving a substitute or anything. The tendency is quite clear, SKM is TD (and should be accepted) but not GOD... The decision to announce theTeam bounce to 1/4 final without winning the 3rd game is ridiculous and seems to be discussable, I wonder nobody did before especially those who discuss for weeks even before ONE GAME IN NC is played...
      
Mr Bean
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sat, 01 November 2008 01:20
GTS Mudda wrote on Sat, 01 November 2008 01:08

So now it seems even more that the decision was made far too quick, not letting TA giving a substitute or anything. The tendency is quite clear, SKM is TD (and should be accepted) but not GOD... The decision to announce theTeam bounce to 1/4 final without winning the 3rd game is ridiculous and seems to be discussable, I wonder nobody did before especially those who discuss for weeks even before ONE GAME IN NC is played...


i don't understand, Mudda.
Should TD have put a whole explanation of his decision in the Forum? We don't know how long he took, how much alternatives were looked at etc.
There have been several forfeits in the RR too, all of them of course unwanted and quite a few leading to a different outcome of a match, so why is this one so different?
RR -> KO is just as decisive as 1/8 -> 1/4 and the tournament schedule leaves only limited time.
      
thekid
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sat, 01 November 2008 01:26
I am the biggest proponent of playing the games and hated to see the forfeits in the earlier rounds of the NC. I've been outspoken on replacements, the lower ranked rule I like, but I feel differently here and here's why:

This tourney is run on trust. Trust not to look at your opponents tix, not to have someone else play for you, etc. And TA was headed by a guy who publicly says its OK to play on vs. the bot if he doesn't like the opponent. Imagine if I said this, there would be people calling for me to be thrown out of the tournament. And there is also a lie in his most recent thread, I'll post it if you want me to but right now don't feel like going through old forum posts, but will if asked because I know it's there. How can you trust someone who publicly says it's OK to cheat and lies?

I believe it was his intention to not play the games against me. He rebuffed my initial perfect time proposal for him. Then was unavailable for 2 days and then wasted the next two days whining that him playing at midnight is unfair for him and it was also unfair that I play at 1:30am. So he went to the forums. Scott said come to an agreement or he would rule who wins. But when there was no euro groundswell to his post, he realized he was in trouble. So he became more conciliatory, still whiny, but knew he had to play or he would lose. I also realized that I wouldn't have had to play and would've gotten the win. Even so, I wanted to play, knew I'd win as long as I was the lower ranked player so he couldn't cheat. Because he was around most of the week and there was reasonable time to get the match done, I thought we should play.

Susifusz's situation was different. We were able to start playing last Wednesday and had until Wednesday to play. That is 8 days. He doesn't respond to Tp's PM's til the day before the deadline, provides only one time to play, that day which is during our work hours. This is ridiculous. Gone for 7 days and only available at one point in time over an 8 day period. Realize that he also had these same "internet problems" the year before in my match with him. Isn't he a doctor or something? He can't go to a library, nothing. Please, he wasn't available to play this week, and they decided to create a circus atmosphere to game the system when instead should have put in their 6th guy. But they didn't want to do that because he really sucks. This was a 5 player team, plain and simple. And even if they offered now to play that 6th guy, I wouldn't accept as I have absolutely no trust that it would be him playing. Susifusz pulled the same garbage against me last year and Sauvignon's actions the past 2 years give me absolutely no reason to trust them. So unfortunately, they failed to follow the rules, not us. They lose. And the TD agrees. I fully believe that Tom would have killed them anyway, but why give them the chance, they can't be trusted and don't deserve it.

And by the way, that wasn't the deciding match. Sauvignon knew going into game 7 of our match, that Scott had decided via email to both of us, it just wasn't posted here. So it was 2-2 going into our game 7. And so he had his chance in the deciding match, but with his going first, his better tickets and his more locos, he couldn't get it done. The match was decided on the board between the 2 captains and he lost it for his team.

[Updated on: Sat, 01 November 2008 01:57]

      
tprail
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sat, 01 November 2008 02:09
I feel obliged to give my information. As soon as my opponent was announced last Wednesday, I sent a PM and I would check online each day (even while traveling back from overseas) but when it got to Sunday night and still nothing, I informed the rest of my team and the TD. Then Tuesday, I finally got a response offering the weekend. When I responded that the match needed to be played by Wednesday, I was offered a time a couple hours later (during my work day - I do not have access to play from work). I responded that I could play after I got home - and did get on around 7pm (midnight CET) Tuesday but did not find my opponent or any PM. When I also got no PM Wednesday, kid asked for a decision before his final game would be played so that the TA captain would know. That decision was made and (as far as I know) no mention of it before/during/after their final game. Perhaps some other offer/communication occurred with TD but nothing was ever sent to me.
      
dea1
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sat, 01 November 2008 02:10
I intended not to comment the matter as I didn't know the developments and just heard about them today.

But this reply from you, kid takes it too far ... so ... hello again Rolling Eyes

a) Kid, you were not outspoken on replacements - you voted that we didn't need rules (probably knowing that they could be designed to your disadvantage)

b) Rules and rulings have to be unbiased, period. You are in fact saying that it is OK in this case, because team TA is headed by a certain captain. That is NOT OK.

c) You are openly accusing Sauvignon of cheating. That is an insult you should apologize for. (Don't tell me that the 'bot story', that you never forget, proves it. Even if it were true - which I don't believe but don't know - he may have said it but didn't do it, and it's not the same as looking at your opponent's cards)

d) Time arrangements with you are not so easy, as everybody knows. You play the game of making the opponents compete at unconvenient times for them quite well. You even get by with making fun of your opponent, who reluctantly accepts. (Telling U32 that she simply loses against your sexy wife was not very good style, was it?).
You should not throw the first stone if you run into an opponent who maybe tried the same.

--------

If SKM took the decision that first contact on Tuesday is simply too late, I can understand that (even though it's hard - but I wouldn't like my opponent to do that either)
As we don't have rules stating what is acceptable and what isn't, he has to decide something.
(It looks like a very quick decision in the forum as there is no reasoning written, but that may well have been given to the captains, I don't know it)
If he says he would have taken the same decision no matter which teams are involved, I believe him.
But if you suggest, that's right because IT IS THIS TEAM, and could/should be ruled in another way next time, that is not acceptable at all.

-----------

And as you expect your opponents to lose in proper style (and complain about missing 'grats') you should learn how to win in proper style (applies to games, matches and arguments won). A post like that does not fall into that category.

[Updated on: Sat, 01 November 2008 02:14]

      
TD-Account
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sat, 01 November 2008 02:53
AT_dea1 wrote on Fri, 31 October 2008 21:10


If SKM took the decision that first contact on Tuesday is simply too late, I can understand that (even though it's hard - but I wouldn't like my opponent to do that either)


This is really the main reason. Sauv actually emailed me to let me know that although he would like to get it played, he understood the decision to forfeit as well. Susi simply did not provide an adequate time to play during the pre-determined 8 day timeframe - period. The next round depends on the results of this round, and so we do not have time in the playoffs to drag rounds past their deadlines.

Quote:


As we don't have rules stating what is acceptable and what isn't, he has to decide something.
(It looks like a very quick decision in the forum as there is no reasoning written, but that may well have been given to the captains, I don't know it)



It was. I prefer stuff like this to be handled as much behind the scenes as possible, so I really don't like this thread.

Quote:


If he says he would have taken the same decision no matter which teams are involved, I believe him.



I would have. Believe me I held off as much as possible crossing my fingers that kid and sauv would get their games played, because I honestly didn't want to have to rule there. But this case was pretty cut and dry. I am actually surprised there is any controversy at all...

Quote:


But if you suggest, that's right because IT IS THIS TEAM, and could/should be ruled in another way next time, that is not acceptable at all.



I assure you it wasn't. Smile


Best,
Scott

[Updated on: Sat, 01 November 2008 03:17]

      
senorblanco
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sat, 01 November 2008 03:13
TD-Account schrieb am Sat, 01 November 2008 02:53

I prefer stuff like this to be handled as much behind the scenes as possible, so I really don't like this thread.


We are in Quarterfinals of the NC, the captains and/or board representatives do have a right to know HOW the teams slide into the round of last eight, am i wrong?! And nevertheless I still think this decision should not be handled by at least one person...

But as things were mentioned in some comments I guess Sauvis discussions with Stefan Kournikova were so lasting that even the complete team gave up hope due to less fun-factor, sad story for this great tourney... sad!
      
TD-Account
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sat, 01 November 2008 03:20
GTS Mudda wrote on Fri, 31 October 2008 22:13

TD-Account schrieb am Sat, 01 November 2008 02:53

I prefer stuff like this to be handled as much behind the scenes as possible, so I really don't like this thread.


We are in Quarterfinals of the NC, the captains and/or board representatives do have a right to know HOW the teams slide into the round of last eight, am i wrong?! And nevertheless I still think this decision should not be handled by at least one person...

But as things were mentioned in some comments I guess Sauvis discussions with Stefan Kournikova were so lasting that even the complete team gave up hope due to less fun-factor, sad story for this great tourney... sad!


If I had thought it was a difficult decision with much controversy I would have submitted it for a vote. This is cut and dry, an obvious decision. If I am constantly submitting such obvious decisions before the board it just wastes the thing we do not have... time. The round is over and the next round begins.
      
thekid
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sat, 01 November 2008 04:41
AT_dea1 wrote on Fri, 31 October 2008 21:10


And as you expect your opponents to lose in proper style (and complain about missing 'grats') you should learn how to win in proper style (applies to games, matches and arguments won). A post like that does not fall into that category.




I know how to lose in proper style. My only loss this year. That's class.

theKid wrote on Sun, 28 September 2008 08:30

A wild finish to my match with TIC - U32 last night.

Great match, I was outplayed, she really deserved to win.



So what do you have to say about my saying good game after all of Sauvi's wins and he says nothing after mine? Doesn't that tell you something? It tells me a whole lot.

[Updated on: Sat, 01 November 2008 05:17]

      
thekid
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sat, 01 November 2008 04:43
[quote title=GTS Mudda wrote on Fri, 31 October 2008 22:13 I guess Sauvis discussions with Stefan Kournikova were so lasting [/quote]

They were so lasting because all he wanted to do was whine. Go check his post and see all the times I asked him to come out and play.
      
thekid
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sat, 01 November 2008 05:01
AT_dea1 wrote on Fri, 31 October 2008 21:10


c) You are openly accusing Sauvignon of cheating. That is an insult you should apologize for. (Don't tell me that the 'bot story', that you never forget, proves it. Even if it were true - which I don't believe but don't know - he may have said it but didn't do it, and it's not the same as looking at your opponent's cards)



TA_sauvignon57 wrote on Mon, 27 October 2008 06:36


And this bot thing was also explained by me - it is mainly depending on your rude behaviour. If you would behave as most people do, this would not have happened.


[/quote]


Uh dea, cheating is cheating, doesn't matter what form it takes. He admits it right there. It wouldn't have happened if I wasn't rude. What??? Are you kidding me, you defend this. And that's not the same story he gave last year:

TA_sauvignon57 wrote on Fri, 12 October 2007 02:18

I had clarified that I had not noticed the bot coming in.



Wait a minute those two stories aren't the same. One of them is a LIE.

Nice try Dea but if the names were covered up, you would be all over him. But you can't because he's your countryman and I'm me. Pathetic.


And this goes to Mudda and Dea both about the bot situation. In my match against Maia. She got botted early in one game, which I had horrible tickets. A game I was sure to lose. And you know how bad I wanted to beat your team Mudda, and you know you wanted to beat us bad too. The team match was 2-2 and our match would decide it. The bot came very quickly without the usual pause that would have been easy to miss. I actually just barely saw it. If I wanted too, I could of played on a bit saying I didn't see it and looked for a restart or went for a ruling. But you know I wouldn't do that. I haven't cheated anyone, nor ever botted any top player, the lowly who leave when blocked are a different story. There is that level of trust. When someone shoots their mouth off that, they are proud of cheating because they don't like someone, there is not that level of trust. And it's amazing that you staunchly defend them too.
      
Vballman20
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sat, 01 November 2008 05:05
I hate to do this as I think most of you know I stay away from controversy and do not talk poorly about anyone. However, this out is out of line and has passed the point of being a thread about a question.
First, I know neither team wanted this to happen. I know my opponent and myself both were frustrated with the result, and I know that other teammates were as well on both teams. However, even though the results went against TA, their team seemed to accept the result, even if it was not wanted. I definitely did not want that to be the deciding factor either, but unfortunately as stated, that is why there are rules and a TD.

Second, Mudda, if you had a question, you too could have PM'd the captains and the TD instead of making this thread. As said previously, we trust our TD to make a informed decision taking much thought, and do not want to push them away from this position. I know that you have issues because kid was involved with the result, nut ask yourself if you would have been this irate if it were someone else? Yes, it sucks and sucks bad that it was decided that way, but who started the fuss?

Third, Scott: I appreciate the work you have put into this and I know you are not taking decisions lightly. I am sorry that you are forced into such situations, and are forced by our lack of consistency, commitment, and communication, to make decisions like this one. I do agree that it was cut and dry as well, and it had nothing to do with the fact that my team benefitted from the result. It was a well fought match for the 4 matches that were played and unfortunately a player did not comply with the rules that I did not decide, Scott did not decide, but as a group that were agreed upon.

Fourth, to TA: I do apologize to you as a team. I really do wish it would not have happened this way. Pammes, Karin, Sauvi, Itchy, Suszi, you are good opponents, and the games I was able to watch and be a part of were great games, and great matches. I know I may not know all of you well, but I do apologize and I think you fought hard and well. Thanks for the games Pammes Smile

Fifth, it has been decided, it is in the past, and there is nothing that can or is going to be done about it now. That may be tough, but that is life sometimes, and unfortunately we have all had to learn to that at some point. If we haven't we will... Some of those things that we have to learn to deal with can be as small as this and they can be life changing...but either way if they are in the past, we have to move on and live in the present, looking toward the future. Living in the past only hurts ourselves.

So, guys, gals, ladies, gentlemen...let's start acting like adults and quit hanging on to crap that in the scheme of things, doesn't matter. If you are not here at TTR to have fun and enjoy each others company, it is time you learn. If you think that this game is only fun when you win, I feel sorry for you. I love playing this game because it is fun, it takes skill and thought, and I have gotten to know a whole new world of people I have never known prior to the life of TTR. I appreciate those that took me in when I was beginning, and I appreciate those that are cordial before, during and after games.

Enough of my post, but stop the whining, everyone!! I, nor anyone else here wants to here it. The forums are for posting good things, and as we have noticed in the past, talking crap about people and situations is frowned upon by DoW, and I am sure many of us here feel the same way. Let's let Scott do his job, and if there are problems to be discussed, discuss them with the TD and with the other captains...don't try to bring someone down, a whole team down, or anything of that nature in the forums.

Thank you to all...and I look forward to some more great matches in the NC..and just so you know, I would still be saying that even if my team was no longer in the tournament...as it was last year, when my team and myself did not make it out of the RR and I still watched as many matches and games as possible, and enjoyed them.

Vball

      
thekid
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sat, 01 November 2008 05:05
AT_dea1 wrote on Fri, 31 October 2008 21:10


b) Rules and rulings have to be unbiased, period. You are in fact saying that it is OK in this case, because team TA is headed by a certain captain. That is NOT OK.




The rules are unbiased. Their player was not available to play. They lose.
      
süszifusz
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sat, 01 November 2008 05:53
hello to SKM and the people who like to play ttr and read this forum.

I took the opportunity to apologize to my excellently playing team mates for destroying their chances to reach the next playoff round simply by not being able to find an appropriate appointment with tp.

It is like tp said: he wrote a pm with suggestions of playing times early in time. I simply didn&acute;t get them before tuesday because of computer problems. Initially i&acute;ve been thinking that there would be time to play the games until november 2nd and there would have been a break for one week between first rounds and playoff. So i offered tp times on this weekend because timing problems between America and Austria are not that heavy on weekends. TP and my team captain Sauvignon afterwards informed me, that the games had to be played until Wednesday morning, so i immediately offered time until very late in the evening in CET and stayed online until 23:10 CET. tp probably didn&acute;t get my pm in time and was not online. I&acute;m sure, we would have played very interesting games if he had not have to work and eat his dinner afterwards.

As i&acute;m living in beautiful Austria and earn a living by running my own medical practice as a specialist in internal medicine i had to sleep at least for 4-5 hours before my next working day (i.e Wednesday) started. My practice is 75 km from home, so i have to get up early (4:30 CET) and on Wednesday i usually have to work until 22:00 and then go back home about 23:00 CET.
So i&acute;ve got tp&acute;s pm suggesting playing on wednesday morning 0:30 CET on Thursday - and that was too late. The decisions had been made.

SKM, i believe you thought about the pros and cons making your decision. As you surely know, i like to play ttr since years. On weekends (Saturday and Sunday) i don&acute;t have any problems to play during the night or early morning. But, as you do in America - and besides also in Europe -, i have to work during the day and sleep at least some hours during my nights to be in shape for my patients on next working day.

ttr is a wonderful game and games are like pearls if they are played

TA_süszifusz
      
Pammes
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sat, 01 November 2008 08:29
let bygones be bygones,

i am not the expert to make a proposal which rule changes should be made for next nc
that is part of the captains discussion after this and before next years nc

i can only agree with all of Vballman20 comments:

theVballman20 schrieb am Sat, 01 November 2008 05:05

If you are not here at TTR to have fun and enjoy each others company, it is time you learn. If you think that this game is only fun when you win, I feel sorry for you. I love playing this game because it is fun, it takes skill and thought, and I have gotten to know a whole new world of people I have never known prior to the life of TTR. I appreciate those that took me in when I was beginning, and I appreciate those that are cordial before, during and after games.




i play TTR because i want to have fun and i love to talk to people i would never haven gotten to know otherwise
and sincerly hope my love for playing with and twisting words in German and English never was an insult for anybody else
thereby i get some energy for my sometime exhausting work and can clear my head
I (unfortunately) just started last week (after three years of playing TTR Embarassed ) to regularly read threads in here


i also admit wednesday morning i was pretty irate because how things went for us as a team and getting out of the nc the second year in a row because of a forfeit did not make me happy

i hereby apologize to süszi because of having bad thoughts of you, that we as a team did not know for almost a week what happened to you and had no way of contacting you
and of course i accept your apology

i also apologize to SKM for being somehow involved in starting this thread by simple giving an answer to mudda as i was asked why we forfeitetd the match
skm, i dont envy your job as a TD
and i can understand your decision as dry and clear cut

theVballman20 schrieb am Sat, 01 November 2008 05:05

Enough of my post, but stop the whining, everyone!! I, nor anyone else here wants to here it. The forums are for posting good things, and as we have noticed in the past, talking crap about people and situations is frowned upon by DoW, and I am sure many of us here feel the same way. Let's let Scott do his job, and if there are problems to be discussed, discuss them with the TD and with the other captains...don't try to bring someone down, a whole team down, or anything of that nature in the forums.




i hope we all have a wonderful nc
and i also hope that things that went on years ago... and nobody really knows of exactely can finally be bygones as well!
please, have fun playing TTR and dont make fun of each other if it hurts the other!
Pammes

p.s.: Vballman20
the games with you were really great Laughing Very Happy Laughing and Thanks for letting me win! Embarassed

[Updated on: Sat, 01 November 2008 09:06]

      
OLE sebbo
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sat, 01 November 2008 09:40
I cant see any violation of a NC rule by this decision. So whats the problem? We have the TD to decide such things.

@Mudda, you didnt want to participate at the discussion before NC, i can remember many postings of you, where you stated that all this discussions about rules are boring and useless and that we simply should play. And now you are complaining that the way it goes is not the way you like? Laughing
      
OLE Masimo
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sat, 01 November 2008 11:34
This is not my discussion at all, but a few things should be said I think:

1. Scott is doing a great job here - he earns all our respect and the way he handled this case is more than correct. I would like to remind you that earlier this year we had noone to do this difficult job for us and some of us that try to make the NC work even thought of alternatives for the lineups in case we would have to start NC without a TD! - Then Scott was kind enough to offer his spare time to do the lineups! Now he even took responsibility to use his rights as TD to rule this case! Can you imagine what a mess we would have had if we had asked the board for a decision here?

Thank you Scott for doing a great job!

2. the timeframe -

I agree, this first week of KO was different to RR and probably a little short for 16 teams....
I put the timeframe together after a few weeks of discussion with VERY FEW players involved in this discussion (if I recall it right only erps and dea were interested at all to find a schedule) This schedule was posted September 17th, the first week of NC! There was plenty of time for every team to get this information. I am really surprised how many players did not know this round was ending wednesday. Apparently very few competitive players read the competitive forum?

So here again is the schedule for the remaining games:

Friday Oct. 31st 11:00 pm GMT lineups due for KO8 (qf); TD posts same day
Friday Nov. 7th 11:00 pm GMT end of KO8 (qf)


matchups are known

Saturday Nov. 8th 11:00 pm GMT lineup due for KO4 (sf); TD posts same day
Sunday Nov. 16th 11:00 pm GMT end of KO4(sf)


matchups are known

Monday Nov. 17th 11:00 pm GMT lineup due for final; TD posts same day
final to be played until Sunday Nov. 23rd 11:00 pm GMT,

preferably on Saturday Nov. 22nd



      
erps
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sat, 01 November 2008 13:09
Hi

Imo the right decision. It had to be a quick decision, so asking the board was not an option.

We had weeks for all captains and all players to know the rules and the schedule. Seven days without response is not tolerable. And we are talking about tprail here, he is usually always around AND is playing within european times most of the time too. If he is saying he can't play at a specified hour, he can't. And you can't come after 7 days of ignoring and offer one date and then wonder why this is not possible...

And the rules based on the opponent. Come on, dea, you know it better. There was always said, substitute "if the opponent agrees", prolonging the timeline "if the other team agrees" etc. What do you thing the "if agrees" stand for? If there were always and overall valid rules for such thing, this sentence makes no sense. Every captain/team has players/teams they will allow it, others not. Do you think i would accept a substitute for Tofra? (I am NOT saying GTS! I would accept for certain players). I am pretty sure, that some players would not accept a substitute for me. If thekid has the opinion, that the other team is a bunch of [enter whatever you think here] and they would NOT grant his team or him the same treatment, why should he offer it?

Face it, we have good and bad links between teams and players. Even the TD may not be 100% objective, but as a human this is impossible and i trust SKM in this decision. Why should he favor theTeam? Some of their members said that they didn't like HS anymore?

A better solution of course is the idea to have more than one TD. For SPWC and EMC we have now 3 TDs, so such a decision is made on a 2 out of 3 vote. Better, but still not good.

If this is a problem, maybe Masimo and me can offer to be Co-TDs for the rest of the NC. Both our teams are out and we are online because of SPWC and EMC anyway.

CU
erps
      
TD-Account
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sat, 01 November 2008 13:38
Thanks to all for your trust and kind words. Thanks also to susi and pammes for posting their view on this!

Don't worry, I'm not going to let a small disagreement (especially from Mudda!! Laughing Wink ) get me down or angry. I can handle it for 3 more weeks. Cool I am amazed, however, that most of the trouble getting people to be available to play comes in the round of 16. One would think that part would get easier!


Best,
Scott

[Updated on: Sat, 01 November 2008 13:42]

      
senorblanco
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sat, 01 November 2008 15:06
theKid schrieb am Sat, 01 November 2008 05:01

And this goes to Mudda and Dea both about the bot situation. In my match against Maia. She got botted early in one game, which I had horrible tickets. A game I was sure to lose. And you know how bad I wanted to beat your team Mudda, and you know you wanted to beat us bad too. The team match was 2-2 and our match would decide it. The bot came very quickly without the usual pause that would have been easy to miss. I actually just barely saw it. If I wanted too, I could of played on a bit saying I didn't see it and looked for a restart or went for a ruling. But you know I wouldn't do that. I haven't cheated anyone, nor ever botted any top player, the lowly who leave when blocked are a different story. There is that level of trust. When someone shoots their mouth off that, they are proud of cheating because they don't like someone, there is not that level of trust. And it's amazing that you staunchly defend them too.

I appreciate for this behaviour, just heard from the games cause I havent seen them all... no more to say...
theVballman20 schrieb am Sat, 01 November 2008 05:05

Second, Mudda, if you had a question, you too could have PM'd the captains and the TD instead of making this thread.

Wrong my Volleyball playing friend:
Yann schrieb am Sat, 01 December 2005

Welcome,
This forum was created to provide competitive players of all our online games (Ticket to Ride and Gang of Four in particular) with a venue to discuss their passion.

sebbo schrieb am Sat, 01 November 2008 09:40

I cant see any violation of a NC rule by this decision. So whats the problem? We have the TD to decide such things.

@Mudda, you didnt want to participate at the discussion before NC, i can remember many postings of you, where you stated that all this discussions about rules are boring and useless and that we simply should play. And now you are complaining that the way it goes is not the way you like? Laughing

Did anybody in this thread mention something like a hurt rule? Reading and interpreting phrases doesnt seem to be Your best ability... I just wanted to be informed about what has happened and not discuss about rules in general... BUT YOU can continue discussing the rules for NC 09 or alternatively the SPWC rules cause You have lots of time now after failing the 1/4 Final in NC... Razz Laughing Surprised Very Happy Twisted Evil

Thx to all for information
      
dea1
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sat, 01 November 2008 15:52
TRB erps schrieb am Sat, 01 November 2008 13:09

And the rules based on the opponent. Come on, dea, you know it better. ...


Come on erps, you know how to read and understand a text better ... Twisted Evil ...

I wrote that I understand the ruling, but I think theKid's post is not acceptable at all as HE states that it is OK because team TA 'deserves it'.
I wanted SKM to state that it would of course be the same for all participants - which he did. Thanks Scott, if have no issue with the TD at all but I do have one with theKid.

-------------------------------------

To theKid:
So you think are are the only one with an arsenal of old weapons that you draw over and over again when they come in handy?
Watch out, others may find some, too ...

That's what you write today ...
theKid schrieb am Sat, 01 November 2008 05:01


I haven't cheated anyone, nor ever botted any top player, the lowly who leave when blocked are a different story. There is that level of trust. When someone shoots their mouth off that, they are proud of cheating because they don't like someone, there is not that level of trust. And it's amazing that you staunchly defend them too.


That's what you wrote 2 years ago (loooong time, but shorter than sauvignons alleged 'bot comment') as a reply to erps' Top100 Ticket-EE:
theKid schrieb am Fri, 10 February 2006 20:54

With regards to the game and disconnects and such of course I agree. All of the people on this list except for dea1, I would have treated the same before this. I didn't know dea1, can't know everybody anymore.


You were saying you would play on against the bot against me.
Why?
Not because I was rude or anything.
Just because you didn't know me!

Glad, you know me by now - so there's a level of trust (again).
Rolling Eyes
      
OLE sebbo
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sat, 01 November 2008 15:59
GTS Mudda schrieb am Sat, 01 November 2008 15:06

Reading and interpreting phrases doesnt seem to be Your best ability...


Are you able to discuss things without provocating or insulting others? Or are your arguments just not convincing enough?
      
thekid
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sat, 01 November 2008 17:29
AT_dea1 wrote on Sat, 01 November 2008 10:52To theKid:
So you think are are the only one with an arsenal of old weapons that you draw over and over again when they come in handy?
Watch out, others may find some, too ...

That's what you write today ...
[quote title=theKid schrieb am Sat, 01 November 2008 05:01


I haven't cheated anyone, nor ever botted any top player, the lowly who leave when blocked are a different story. There is that level of trust. When someone shoots their mouth off that, they are proud of cheating because they don't like someone, there is not that level of trust. And it's amazing that you staunchly defend them too.


That's what you wrote 2 years ago (loooong time, but shorter than sauvignons alleged 'bot comment') as a reply to erps' Top100 Ticket-EE:
theKid schrieb am Fri, 10 February 2006 20:54

With regards to the game and disconnects and such of course I agree. All of the people on this list except for dea1, I would have treated the same before this. I didn't know dea1, can't know everybody anymore.


You were saying you would play on against the bot against me.
Why?
Not because I was rude or anything.
Just because you didn't know me!

Glad, you know me by now - so there's a level of trust (again).
Rolling Eyes [/quote]


You actually prove my point with your post. The post I was referring to was a list of people that you wouldn't bot, it was a petition being signed by top players. At the time I wouldn't have known you as a top player. When you open up open games anyone can join. You don't see their ratings, so you don't know if they are a top player. By signing the list I then knew you so you would then be treated like a top player instead of an unknown who leaves a game. Keep on trying.


But again I'll revist the circumstances, look at susifusz's post. He thinks the round is somehow 4 days longer so in total 12 days, what kind of player doesn't contact the opponent for 7 days. That's a complete lack of disrespect. And sorry you can't use internet problems 2 years in a row against the same team. He's a doctor who has his own practice, he's the boss, he can use the internet there without a boss complaining to him. Or was the internet out at home too or all of Austria.

And it's funny that you think observing the rules is somehow bad. Maybe your boy instead should have shown some class after his game 1, 4, 6 and 7 losses, maybe he should stop being an unrepentant botter, maybe they should come up with a new "story" about being unavailable then maybe someone might want to bend the rules for them. But since they did none of that your boy has to live with the fact he had 2 shots to send us home, both going first, both with better tix and both with more locos. Must be hard to choke it away, need to find someone else to blame, I understand, but you can't blame us.
      
senorblanco
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sat, 01 November 2008 17:48
sebbo schrieb am Sat, 01 November 2008 15:59

Are you able to discuss things without provocating or insulting others? Or are your arguments just not convincing enough?

I will stop "insulting" (at least) You if You stop throwing around destructive comments and spaming constructive and/or informative threads... But its always the same with You, once somebody from GTS shaked the cage - no problem - we get along with it...
Right in the moment I extremely enjoy the 1/4 Final is running without You and Your team and this ought to be no insult but the one and only outspoken truth Very Happy Laughing Twisted Evil
      
OLE sebbo
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sat, 01 November 2008 18:15
Mudda, since i know you personally, i know that your habit in this forum is only show. Nothing less, nothing more. I dont know why you do so, but you might have your reasons Smile. But you know me too, so please, you can try to impress others this way, but not me, and you know that Smile.
Looking forward to the next game of knack vs. you Smile
      
senorblanco
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sat, 01 November 2008 21:01
Damn he got me Crying or Very Sad Crying or Very Sad Crying or Very Sad

Aber hallo! Und dann knack ich Dir von der Seite in die Beine Laughing

Take it easy and let the show continue - at least the "GTS-Show"... Very Happy
      
dea1
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sun, 02 November 2008 00:35
GTS Mudda schrieb am Sat, 01 November 2008 21:01


Take it easy and let the show continue - at least the "GTS-Show"... Very Happy

Yes, folks ... come and watch the last episode of the GTS-Show ... title: 'Hear the echo of good bye in the Alps' Twisted Evil
      
süszifusz
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sun, 02 November 2008 06:37
to theKid

I am really amazed that you find a way to look at things like you do.
Not contactin TP for 7 days did not happen because of disrespect but due to not having an internet connection at home for this period.
TP is an excellent player and i would have liked to play with him.
And to state it clearly, i also do respect the decision of SKM, it was correct.
Nevertheless i am sad that a timing problem leaded to a forfeit decision against our team.
Nevertheless i am getting angry reading your oneway postings.

So try not to offend people. It is not worth it and it is not acceptable.

süszifusz

      
thekid
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sun, 02 November 2008 07:24
süszifusz wrote on Sun, 02 November 2008 01:37

to theKid

I am really amazed that you find a way to look at things like you do.
Not contactin TP for 7 days did not happen because of disrespect but due to not having an internet connection at home for this period.
TP is an excellent player and i would have liked to play with him.
And to state it clearly, i also do respect the decision of SKM, it was correct.
Nevertheless i am sad that a timing problem leaded to a forfeit decision against our team.
Nevertheless i am getting angry reading your oneway postings.

So try not to offend people. It is not worth it and it is not acceptable.

süszifusz




Wait a minute.

You knew you were in the lineup.

Did you think the world would just wait for you?

Did you think your opponent might wonder where you are?

Isn't it REALLY ODD that this only happenened against OUR TEAM 2 YEARS IN A ROW?

Do you not have internet at work?

Remember you're the boss, you can use it.

If no, could you not go to a library?

Or have a friend send a message for you?

You have a phone right? Don't have any teammates #'s?

You have a million different options but choose none of them.

You wonder how I think?

There it is right in front of you.

Answer them, I'm wondering how you think.
      
Lucullupus
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sun, 02 November 2008 09:35
Hi all,

to theVballman20:
you spoke out of my soul, I feel like you, thanks Cool

to TD:
you are doing a very hard and thankless job and we all believe that you are doing your best Smile but I think it would be better (also for you) to have a gremium of about 3 TDs (in USA and Europe) for such decisions

to theKid:
yes, we know, you are a very nice guy, a fantastic player and the best loser of the world Laughing - but isnt it strange that you are so many times involved in such unpleasant troubles? Mad

to TA Sauvignon:
why Stefan Kournikova? I would prefer Anna... Laughing

      
Nemo_
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sun, 02 November 2008 11:04
AT_Lucullupus wrote on Sun, 02 November 2008 10:35



to theKid:
yes, we know, you are a very nice guy, a fantastic player and the best loser of the world Laughing - but isnt it strange that you are so many times involved in such unpleasant troubles? Mad




Well, i dont know all details, but i've readed old posts and so, and i've seen that there have been many people who have tried to cheat thekid or something like that.
I would also be quite tired of that stuff, if i was him. Also many previous issues still affects to some poeple's opinion. But what i've seen, he seems like quite nice afterall, at least to those who dont blaim him all the time.
And even i dont agree always the way he says things, normally his posts have some reasonable point, and them are not stupid at all.
      
thekid
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Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Sun, 02 November 2008 13:13
First, thanks Zimo.

AT_Lucullupus wrote on Sun, 02 November 2008 03:35



to theKid:
yes, we know, you are a very nice guy, a fantastic player and the best loser of the world Laughing - but isnt it strange that you are so many times involved in such unpleasant troubles? Mad



Yeah, I congratulate my opponents when I lose, not leave the lobby as soon as possible, run sauvi run.

Hey if you think it's strange that I'm always involved in problems, then why don't you answer the real problem questions for this round.

So go ahead and answer this:

How is it possible that a doctor, who has his own practice, has "internet problems" 2 years in a row, ONLY AGAINST OUR TEAM, is there no email, no internet in his office, no internet at home, no internet anywhere he can walk to, to say hey I need a few days? You mean everywhere this guy went there were "internet problems"?

Notice one thing, it's interesting that you whiners just want everyone to accept that oh he had internet problems as an acceptable excuse, but when you stop and ask questions, it makes no sense. That's why none of the whiners answer the questions. So go ahead and answer them or stop whining.
      
Lucullupus
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  Re:Forfeit - TD decides and nobody agrees!? Mon, 03 November 2008 02:26
Dear Kid:

1) I dont know süszifusz well (although I am living in the same country), therefore I cannot judge his internet problems. Yes, I agree that his reaction came very late (maybe too late).
2) Every time I won against him, he congratulated (which is normal, nothing special), so I dont know why he did not the same against you (guess who is to blame for that...if you are nice to your opponents your opponents will be nice to you too, isnt it?)
3) Whining? You are joking! My contribution had nothing to do with "whining" - I was in a very good mood when I wrote it.

Yours,
Luc Cool
      
    
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