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toddrew
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Panic on Pushback? Sat, 27 October 2007 18:11
I'm full of rules questions today Very Happy If a frightened unit is caused to retreat by the Hill Giant's pushback, does the controller of the giant roll for panic losses against the retreating unit? Or, more overarching, if said unit retreats for any reason?

[Updated on: Sat, 27 October 2007 18:12]

      
DarkPadawan
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Re:Panic on Pushback? Sat, 27 October 2007 19:14
toddrew schrieb am Sat, 27 October 2007 18:11

I'm full of rules questions today Very Happy If a frightened unit is caused to retreat by the Hill Giant's pushback, does the controller of the giant roll for panic losses against the retreating unit? Or, more overarching, if said unit retreats for any reason?


I am not totally sure on this, but I think the answer is "Yes". whenever a frightened unit is forced to retreat (by whatever reason), the opponent gets to roll for panic losses.

Dark.
      
cedrox
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Re:Panic on Pushback? Sun, 28 October 2007 11:29
That's a good question ! I was concerned by the same problem yesterday... Very Happy
      
toddrew
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Re:Panic on Pushback? Sun, 28 October 2007 12:30
cedrox wrote on Sun, 28 October 2007 04:29

That's a good question ! I was concerned by the same problem yesterday... Very Happy


Really Question Quelle coïncidence! Very Happy
      
dbc-
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Re:Panic on Pushback? Sun, 28 October 2007 19:16
Panic Loss is a product of morale. Since morale has nothing to do with Pushback, there is no reason to check for losses.
See this thread, regarding Giant vs. Spider:
http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?goto=100293#msg_100293
I believe, Toddrew, you have done the incredible feat, to answer your own question long before it was asked... Laughing
      
toddrew
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Re:Panic on Pushback? Sun, 28 October 2007 20:15
dbc- wrote on Sun, 28 October 2007 12:16

Panic Loss is a product of morale. Since morale has nothing to do with Pushback, there is no reason to check for losses.
See this thread, regarding Giant vs. Spider:
http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?goto=100293#msg_100293
I believe, Toddrew, you have done the incredible feat, to answer your own question long before it was asked... Laughing


Hey, with 400 odd posts, bound to happen Wink But, not this time Very Happy I should have provided a concrete example of when the question came up. In a rousing game between cedrox and I a red banner goblin foot unit attacked a Hill Giant. The goblin troop was unsuccessful and the battle back from the Hill Giant yielded a lore. Pushback ensued. So the question was: does the controller of the Hill Giant roll a panic check against the Goblin unit due to its retreating? We decided it should happen. The resulting hit didn't affect the ultimate outcome of the game, but may have made the end result a little closer. It was one of those games that could have ended on either of the players' last turns. The best of the games, methinks Smile

[Updated on: Mon, 29 October 2007 12:40]

      
ColtsFan76
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Re:Panic on Pushback? Tue, 30 October 2007 05:28
dbc- wrote on Sun, 28 October 2007 13:16

I believe, Toddrew, you have done the incredible feat, to answer your own question long before it was asked... Laughing

LOL

Beautiful
      
toddrew
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Re:Panic on Pushback? Tue, 30 October 2007 05:47
So, probably digging a deeper hole here, but the referenced post was about whether a goblin unit would retreat 4 hexes per pushback (or, so I interpreted what was being asked there), to which the answer would be no. But, since the goblin unit is frightened (though interesting what would happen if Fearless had been played...) and the pushback causes retreats, it would seem to follow that the retreating frightened goblins would be subject to a panic roll @ 1d per hex retreated. Round and round the mulberry bush Wink

EDIT: freudian slip mopped up

[Updated on: Tue, 30 October 2007 07:02]

      
dbc-
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Re:Panic on Pushback? Tue, 30 October 2007 07:25
While the post is originally about the number of spaces to retreat, it is also (officially) established that this kind of movement has nothing to do with morale.
On pg. 26 of the rulebook it says:
"A unit's Morale level determines how a unit reacts to Retreat flags rolled against it."
So if the pushback has nothing to do with morale, there is no panic effect either.
      
toddrew
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Re:Panic on Pushback? Tue, 30 October 2007 13:24
I can certainly go along with that, panic checks only on frightened units retreating from rolled flags (lore rolled from a card like Terrified being treated as flags rolled). Imminently reasonable assumption from a reading of the rules. The very reason I initially thought no panic check would occur. But the more I thought about it the more I was unsure.

How many hexes a unit retreats from a pushback is not a product of morale, is what I am sure about (even before that thread, but definitely after it as well Wink ). I think it is less clear whether panic losses are checked whenever a frightened unit is forced to retreat, even from means not caused by rolled flags. Until I hear/see differently, I'll be playing that panic checks only occur on retreats from rolled flags (or lore explicitly said to be treated as a rolled flag [well, you know what I mean - as this is where it gets grey to me], ie Terrified at this point being the only such case).

[Updated on: Tue, 30 October 2007 13:25]

      
toddrew
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Re:Panic on Pushback? Mon, 03 December 2007 20:21
Just following up: In the creature compendium page for the Hill Giant, the response to this question was that frightened units receive panic checks (1d for each hex retreated) any time they are caused to retreat, Giant Pushback included.
      
paulvbrown
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Re:Panic on Pushback? Sat, 31 January 2009 11:25
Okay - sorry to dredge up this old issue, but I'm still a bit confused. The end result of this was that "frightened units" roll for panic losses during their retreat from a pushback. So could I have a clarification of what constitutes a frightened unit?

Case I'm interested in is Hill Giant vs. Hill Giant. HG1 rolled a lore against HG2. HG2 should retreat 2 hexes for the pushback. HG2 is a creature, therefore inherently BOLD. However, when retreating, must retreat 2 hexes / flag -- which seems to me to be the equivalent of being frightened. Ergo (Matrix time....) I would say the HG is BOLD until forced to retreat, at which time he is then instantly FRIGHTENED. And thus, would have to roll for panic losses during his cowardly retreat....

????
      
toddrew
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Re:Panic on Pushback? Sun, 01 February 2009 00:27
This is one of those instances in BattleLore where the conclusion is one-way deal, not reflexive, i.e.:

Any unit that is frightened retreats two hexes per flag, but any unit that retreats two hexes per flag is not necessarily frightened.

Currently, the only way a Creature would make a panic check is if Mists of Terror were in play and a Creature was targeted during a battle and a flag was rolled.

Paul, you playing in the Vassal tournament that Michael (Bayernkini) is setting up?

And thanks for dredging up the old issue - I'm going to miss these forums. That was a nice bit of nostalgia, reading through that Smile

[Updated on: Sun, 01 February 2009 00:31]

      
toddrew
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Re:Panic on Pushback? Sun, 01 February 2009 00:36
paulvbrown wrote on Sat, 31 January 2009 03:25

So could I have a clarification of what constitutes a frightened unit?


Apologies for the double post, but I didn't directly address this question in the first one.

Currently the only units with a frightened morale are the goblins. I believe every Goblin unit to date is frightened. No other units have that morale, and the only way (per official rules, anyway) for any other unit to become frightened is for the Mists of Terror Cleric card to be played.

I'm hoping the frightened morale is a condition that will come into play more as the game is developed further (either through more lore cards, races/creatures that induce the frightened morale in other units, etc.).
      
paulvbrown
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Re:Panic on Pushback? Sun, 01 February 2009 08:54
toddrew wrote on Sun, 01 February 2009 01:27

Paul, you playing in the Vassal tournament that Michael (Bayernkini) is setting up?



Nope, no can do - just too much on the plate right now.

Quote:


And thanks for dredging up the old issue - I'm going to miss these forums. That was a nice bit of nostalgia, reading through that Smile


"going to miss"? Are you going somewhere where they don't play Battlelore?

And thanks for the clarification (in your next message)!
      
toddrew
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Re:Panic on Pushback? Mon, 02 February 2009 08:13
paulvbrown wrote on Sun, 01 February 2009 00:54

"going to miss"? Are you going somewhere where they don't play Battlelore?




Maybe you're not aware - DoW sold BattleLore to Fantasy Flight Games. The forums here at DoW for BattleLore are going to be put to rest around the 15th of February (if I'm reading the notice correctly).

The forum for BattleLore on FFG can be found here.
      
    
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