Five Tribes Five Tribes

Forums

Search
Forums » Memoir '44 - English » Early Falaise end campaign question
Show: Today's Posts 
  
AuthorTopic
gp_man
Member
Lucky Bastard

User Pages
Posts: 38
Registered:
January 2009
Early Falaise end campaign question Wed, 18 March 2009 04:54
I need a little help. My son and I have completed the Flanking Caen campaign, and as the Germans I'm getting a butt-whooping! We were looking at the Early Falaise campaign ('cause it's next) and I'm confused how it ends.

looking at the Campaign sheets we play "St Martin..." then "Mont Pincon". At that point if the Axis wins we end the Campaign (per the Axis sheet) or if the Allies win we go to "Closing the Gap" and the campaign ends after.

Now, on both sheets (axis and allied) it says "if you win after Closing..." end the grand campaign; and it says on both "if you win after Mont..." move on to "Falaise".

OK, now here's where I'm getting turned around, how can the Allies win after "Mont Pincon" if by winning they goto "Closing..."?

I'm thinking (based on history) that if the Allies win "Closing the Gap" the Grand Campaign ends, but if the Axis win "Mont Pincon" we move onto the "Falaise" campaign.

To add to my confusion is the note on p.17 "Grand Campaign progression" - we're in step two : Taking Caen, but step four says to play "Falaise" if not already played? Does the Grand Campaign end if the Allies close the gap or not?
      
dagorman
Member
Lieutenant-colonel

User Pages
Posts: 43
Registered:
December 2006
Re:Early Falaise end campaign question Wed, 18 March 2009 09:30
I think it means the are 4 possible endings to that campaign.

Allies win campaign after losing Mont Pincon.

Axis win the campaign after winning at Mont Pincon.

Allies win campaign after closing the gap.

Axis win campaign after closing the gap.

It is possible for the allies to lose the battle at Mont Pincon but still win the campaign depending on the result of Saint Martin.

If you are playing the grand campaign an axis victory at Mont Pincon means you play the Falaise mini campaign.

If the allies win at Mont Pincon then closing the gap is the last battle of the Grand campaign
      
Brummbar44
DoW Content Provider
Artillery Specialist

User Pages
Posts: 1129
Registered:
June 2004
Re:Early Falaise end campaign question Wed, 18 March 2009 16:44
Good question and I can see how this may be a little confusing so hopefully I can shed some light here.

In the Early Falaise campaign if the Allies lose the battle of Mont Pincon (ie. the Axis win) the campaign ends. You'll note that on both Axis and Allies score sheet that the Grand Campaign then moves on to 'Falaise'.

The only way to get to 'Closing the Gap' (which happens to be the last scenario in the Grand Campaign as historically, the battle for Normandy did in fact end there) is for the Allies to win not only at Mont Pincon, but also need to win the 'Early Falaise' campaign.

The 'Early Falaise' and Grand Campaign will both end after 'Closing the Gap'.

It's like an early end and some bragging rights for the Allied Commander!

Early Falaise though is a tough campaign for the Allies (again, as it was historically) so likely the Allies will have one more campaign on their hands which is Falaise.
      
gp_man
Member
Lucky Bastard

User Pages
Posts: 38
Registered:
January 2009
Re:Early Falaise end campaign question Wed, 18 March 2009 17:59
am I getting this right:

a.) if the axis win Mont Pincon, "Early Falaise" ends and we goto "Falaise"
b.) if the axis lose Mont Pincon, play Closing the Gap.

c.) no matter who wins Closing the Gap, the Grand campaign ends.

d.) there are two ways to get to "Falaise": axis wins the "Taking Caen" campaign or axis wins the Mont Pincon scenario (regardless of who wins the "Early Falaise" campaign).

I guess I got confused by the idea that the Brits can win the "Early Falaise" campaign after losing the Mont Pincon scenario (and go on to Falaise) but I think I see it now.

things are desperate for the Germans here and as their commander I want to make sure I understand the consequences! Thanks for the replies.
      
Brummbar44
DoW Content Provider
Artillery Specialist

User Pages
Posts: 1129
Registered:
June 2004
Re:Early Falaise end campaign question Wed, 18 March 2009 18:09
Correct on all accounts!

Seems like you've got it (though you can also get to the 'Falaise' campaign via the Breakout campaign, but that doesn't factor into your particular path this play...maybe next time!).

I know it can seem confusing that if the Allies lose at Mont Pincon they might still go on to win the campaign but it is a case of lose the battle but win the war.

Should the Allies really do well at St. Martin & Bull Bridge yet lose by just a little at Mont Pincon, it might be enough to win the campaign but the loss at Mont Pincon gives the Axis one more chance to organize for a solid defence at Falaise. It might be your last hope so you'll need to be crafty at Mont Pincon, it is certainly a hinge battle!

Good luck!

      
rasmussen81
DoW Content Provider
Designer's Oath

User Pages
Posts: 7072
Registered:
July 2007
Re:Early Falaise end campaign question Wed, 18 March 2009 18:18
And now the brilliance of the Campaign System begins to show through. Very Happy

Eyes light up around the world as players of the fascinating World War II board game, Memoir '44, realize that with the Campaign Book they can experience the vital importance of capturing military objectives and the significance of winning hinge battles. In an atmosphere of destruction and loss, a solitary German general sees a faint shimmering light as he realizes the path he must take to ultimate victory. The road won't be easy, but if gp-man can keep his focus he may be able to defeat the brilliant young American general! Cool

Thanks, Brummbar, for creating such a fun Memoir '44 expansion. Smile

[Updated on: Wed, 18 March 2009 18:19]

      
Brummbar44
DoW Content Provider
Artillery Specialist

User Pages
Posts: 1129
Registered:
June 2004
Re:Early Falaise end campaign question Wed, 18 March 2009 18:25
Thanks Ras for all your support and efforts as well!

Are you going to be getting the club into the Campaign Book? That will be fun and interesting with the variety of results that can happen.
      
rasmussen81
DoW Content Provider
Designer's Oath

User Pages
Posts: 7072
Registered:
July 2007
Re:Early Falaise end campaign question Wed, 18 March 2009 18:46
It's been my pleasure! Smile

I have plans to use the Normandy Campaign next year in the Club. The kids will love being able to change the battle they play next! Very Happy

[Updated on: Wed, 18 March 2009 22:05]

      
dcbass
Junior Member
Major

User Pages
Posts: 6
Registered:
June 2007
Re:Early Falaise end campaign question Wed, 18 March 2009 22:50
I've had trouble as the allies in the Normandy Campaign. No objectives achieved. I'm down 2 to 1 in the campaign points and by 4 in the victory points so I need a big win at Falaise! Wish me luck!!!

B
      
rasmussen81
DoW Content Provider
Designer's Oath

User Pages
Posts: 7072
Registered:
July 2007
Re:Early Falaise end campaign question Wed, 18 March 2009 22:57
Good luck!! Very Happy

An intel report said something about Anti-Tank guns in the area so watch your flank! And use that Smoke Screen wisely. Cool
      
TommieSL
Senior Member

User Pages
Posts: 341
Registered:
November 2004
Re:Early Falaise end campaign question Sat, 28 March 2009 01:52
Is the... "If you win the Campaign after Mont Pincon" Grand Campaign Box on page 34 for the Allies superflous then, since it states the Grand Campaign should move on to 'Falaise'.
This is an error - right? - since an Allied victory leads on to Closing the Gap?

Cripes - this is suppose to be a simple game.
      
Brummbar44
DoW Content Provider
Artillery Specialist

User Pages
Posts: 1129
Registered:
June 2004
Re:Early Falaise end campaign question Sat, 28 March 2009 02:13
TommieSL wrote on Fri, 27 March 2009 17:52

Is the... "If you win the Campaign after Mont Pincon" Grand Campaign Box on page 34 for the Allies superflous then, since it states the Grand Campaign should move on to 'Falaise'.
This is an error - right? - since an Allied victory leads on to Closing the Gap?



No, it's correct. Remember, winning or losing a scenario doesn't necessarily equate to winning the campaign.

The Allies could lose the Mont Pincon battle yet win the campaign. In which case, the Grand Campaign box of moving on to Falaise is correct (the Allies wouldn't get an early 'closing the gap' chance...they only get that if they win the Mont Pincon scenario).


      
TommieSL
Senior Member

User Pages
Posts: 341
Registered:
November 2004
Re:Early Falaise end campaign question Sat, 28 March 2009 12:44
Ok - maybe I didn't ask the right question... how do the Allies Win the Campaign after Mont Pincon?

I ask because this 'box' says if they do - they move onto the Falaise Campaign in the Grand Campaign yet the current campaign (Early Falaise) is not yet finished - still need to play 'Closing the Gap'

Am I missing something obvious?

[Updated on: Sat, 28 March 2009 12:48]

      
Brummbar44
DoW Content Provider
Artillery Specialist

User Pages
Posts: 1129
Registered:
June 2004
Re:Early Falaise end campaign question Sat, 28 March 2009 15:30
TommieSL wrote on Sat, 28 March 2009 04:44

Ok - maybe I didn't ask the right question... how do the Allies Win the Campaign after Mont Pincon?

I ask because this 'box' says if they do - they move onto the Falaise Campaign in the Grand Campaign yet the current campaign (Early Falaise) is not yet finished - still need to play 'Closing the Gap'

Am I missing something obvious?


I don't think it is obvious...or perhaps even likely! LOL, it is however, possible.

As an example, say the Allies have a smashing success at St. Martin & Bull Bridge (let's say 5-1) but go on to lose only slightly at Mont Pincon (say 5-6).

Their loss at Mont Pincon prevents the campaign from progressing onto Closing the Gap and effectively the campaign is now over. (the condition to move onto Closing the Gap is a win specifically on the Mont Pincon scenario).

Because the Allies have a better campaign score than the Axis (say 10-7), they have in fact now won the campaign.

Again, while this may not be a likely outcome (or maybe it will...only time and AAR's will tell) I had to account for the possibility.

Does that make sense now?
      
TommieSL
Senior Member

User Pages
Posts: 341
Registered:
November 2004
Re:Early Falaise end campaign question Sat, 28 March 2009 16:29
Thanks for trying Brumm.

It must be me - I still do not understand why you have that box that seems superfluous to me.

I understand the Allies can still win the Campaign even if they lose at Mont Pincon. And I see how the result at Mont Pincon decides how the rest of the Grand Campaign will run. If the Allies win Mont Pincon - they get the chance to go to Closing the Gap (even if they may be losing the Campaign - which is possible). If they lose at Mont Pincon, the Camapign ends and go to Falaise.

So I just do not see how the Allied player's (Early Falaise) campaign score drives the Grand Campaign route (as suggested by the box in question). Whether they win or lose (the Campaign) at Mont Pincon is not the determinant - so I still cannot see the reason for this... "If you win the Campaign after Mont Pincon" call-out?

Nevertheless, this should no way detract from the time and effort you have obviously put into this excellent enhancement to the Memoir system.

Congratulations.

      
Brummbar44
DoW Content Provider
Artillery Specialist

User Pages
Posts: 1129
Registered:
June 2004
Re:Early Falaise end campaign question Sat, 28 March 2009 16:39
Maybe if I put the question to you...if the box weren't there, what happens in the case of the Allies lose the Mont Pincon scenario but win the campaign?

Players would be at a loss as to what happens next. The campaign must end because the Allies aren't able to carry on to Closing the Gap and yet, it wasn't an Axis campaign win.

The box needs to be there in this case as superfluous as it may initially seem.

Thanks on the congrats...as you can see, a lot of thought went into it! LOL!

Hope you are enjoying the book.

Cheers!
      
TommieSL
Senior Member

User Pages
Posts: 341
Registered:
November 2004
Re:Early Falaise end campaign question Sat, 28 March 2009 17:08
If the Allies lose Mont Pincon then the campaign ends.
It doesn't matter what the campaign score is as far as the Grand Campaign route-map you have drawn - or am I missing something - again!!.

You seem to be adding some 'weight' to the Campaign result affecting the Grand campaign route - but from what I observe in this particular case, the GC is driven by the battle result.

[Updated on: Sat, 28 March 2009 17:11]

      
Brummbar44
DoW Content Provider
Artillery Specialist

User Pages
Posts: 1129
Registered:
June 2004
Re:Early Falaise end campaign question Sat, 28 March 2009 17:13
If the Allies lose at Mont Pincon, then yes, the Early Falaise campaign does end...but the Grand Campaign carries on to the Falaise campaign. The Grand Campaign doesn't end...that only happens if the Allies do go onto to fight the Closing the Gap scenario.

Is that maybe where you are out?

Now you've got me totally intrigued! LOL!
      
TommieSL
Senior Member

User Pages
Posts: 341
Registered:
November 2004
Re:Early Falaise end campaign question Sat, 28 March 2009 18:50
Let's quit while we're ahead. We're obviously on different pages.
      
Brummbar44
DoW Content Provider
Artillery Specialist

User Pages
Posts: 1129
Registered:
June 2004
Re:Early Falaise end campaign question Sat, 28 March 2009 20:07
TommieSL wrote on Sat, 28 March 2009 10:50

Let's quit while we're ahead. We're obviously on different pages.



No, we're on the same page...page 34 right? LOL!

While you are correct that in essence, the outcome of Mont Pincon is really what is driving the GC, it still needed to be pointed out in that box where to go next otherwise I'd be getting all kinds of "So I lost the Mont Pincon battle but won the campaign...so where do we go next in the GC?" questions.

It is really just a tying up loose ends thing. Trust me, a lot of thought went into that Normandy campaign!
      
    
Previous Topic:First Time Fall Gelb
Next Topic:2-medal win conditions in campaign
Goto Forum: