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Sgt Welsh
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expansion question. Wed, 27 May 2009 16:00
Hello soldiers,

I wonder how a french extension pack "1940" will be seen by english and american players of M44. Would they buy him or its an uninteresting front because of the defeat and the short time of battle or else?

Would english and american gamers prefer italian one?

The next question is : what will be the six miltary figures you are asking for from DOW. figures in M44 spirit!!

Thanks for answers and just write (GB) for Britsh and (US) for American.

Cool.

[Updated on: Wed, 27 May 2009 19:32]

      
sniperscout
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Re:extension question. Wed, 27 May 2009 17:05
I would buy a 1940 French Expansion. That way I would have the correct figures, tanks and artillery for the 1940 scenarios in CB1. The units could also be used as French units in Normandy (substitute 1940 era tanks for Shermans)

I would also like to see an Italian expansion as well
      
OldBloodandGuts
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Re:extension question. Wed, 27 May 2009 17:29
I think I'd like to see an Italian expansion before a French one. In the grand scheme of things, I think you'd find much more use for Italian units (especially in North Africa, now that we have the British). Although the French do have the unique ability to fight for (or against) either side...

I also think it would be cool if we were to see an expansion that veered away from nationality or theater. Tops on my list would be a tank-destroyer/self-propelled artillery expansion.

Germany could get a Jagdpanther and/or a Stug, Russia could get an SU-85, America could get an M7 Priest and an M10 (or M36).

I've been testing some TD rules, and have had a lot of fun with the following one:
"These units score a hit against armor on a roll of a tank, grenade, or star symbol. However, they only score a hit against infantry with a roll of the infantry symbol."



      
ad79
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Re:extension question. Wed, 27 May 2009 17:38
let's just face it.

We would all buy a french expansion, we would buy any expansion.

I would say a french expansion would be ok if it included interesting scenarios and maybe a campaign.

As Oldbloodandguts says I think a SWA expansion with different tank figures, tank-destroyers and so on and so on would be fun.
      
Sgt Welsh
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expansion question. Wed, 27 May 2009 19:19
If we consider thar the russian expansion can replace the soldier and gun, just a tank is in this way is needed so a french medium tank like a somua S 35 would be the only tank we need (X24). could you agree that. The sherman will be used in 1944. So tanks with a good map would be an idea? In that way a m13/40 will be the tank for italian which need.

Great idea for generic SPG (Sexton/Priest and Hummel or wespe) (Allied/axis) with a specific map!!

Artillery could be a generic Howitzer 105mm and a german one as 10.5 cm to replace the ATG pak.

PS : Caesar will soon produce new 1/72 figures as french, german, US and British. For the French see that:

http://store.foxholetoys.com/caesar-miniatures-1-72.html

[Updated on: Wed, 27 May 2009 19:20]

      
yangtze
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Re:expansion question. Wed, 27 May 2009 19:33
The Italian M13/40 is not a million miles away in looks from the Japanese Ha-Go which we already have Cool
      
Sgt Welsh
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Re:expansion question. Wed, 27 May 2009 19:53
Hello Yangtze,

That's true!!! For the present time, I use Ha-go for french/italian/japanese light/medium tank. But we just have 12 of them so a generic medium tank could be an idea in that way. The tank could be paint in the color of the good country: german/US/British/French/Italian/Poland/USSR/...Why not.
      
Timmuilwijk
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Re:expansion question. Wed, 27 May 2009 19:59
Indeed it would be nice to include one or more nations, and you could add SWA's (or vehicles) with these respective packages to boost up the quality Very Happy just as they did with the British then you could play any scenario on the Western Front from 1939 onwards...a Somua S35 would be nice but the Char B1 would also do. However, for the campaign in 1940 the main difference should be that the Blitz rules have to be in effect. You could even propose to 'mix': 2 infantry units + 1 tank or something like that to emphasize the fact that the Germans used the tanks as independent units while the Western Allies, used them as infantry support within the infantry unit.

Italian tanks should be used in the same manner as the Japanese, medium / light tank, with only 16 tank units supplied, so you could compromise and add some other SWA's notable Heavy MG's etc. (see my thread on SWA's and other miniatures), nice ideas anyway!

I would buy both if both were released!
Tim

      
Sgt Welsh
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Re:expansion question. Wed, 27 May 2009 22:03
Hi Timmuilwijk,

The idea to mix tanks and infantery is a good one to employ french tanks except at Arras and Abbeville. As in russia because soviets dont have trucks at the first period of war (weapon was the priority and the war was to soon engage for Staline) so they carry theirs troops with tanks and cant go very far because havent any support means!!! Allied lorries were welcome and support means were the leak of russian army.
      
Nordiskanc
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Re:extension question. Wed, 27 May 2009 22:59
I would most likely purchase a French expansion, however I think an Italian expansion should come before it. US
      
Wrecker
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Re:expansion question. Wed, 27 May 2009 23:28
I like the idea of a French expansion, but only if the game is based on WW1, not WW2.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:expansion question. Wed, 27 May 2009 23:41
Wrecker wrote on Wed, 27 May 2009 14:28

I like the idea of a French expansion, but only if the game is based on WW1, not WW2.


I wouldn't suggest you hold your breath for that switch. Memoir '44 is solidly stuck in World War II and I think it's a good time period to be in.

I would like either expansion. I really enjoy the Fall Gelb campaign and it would be fun to use French troops for it. Until then I'll just use some 1/72 figures.
      
Achtung Panzer
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Re:expansion question. Wed, 27 May 2009 23:52
Wrecker wrote on Wed, 27 May 2009 22:28

I like the idea of a French expansion, but only if the game is based on WW1, not WW2.


Just a personal view but I realy don't see games reproducing fixed trench warfare dominated by off-table artillery as being that exciting. It wouldn't be a step forward for Memoir '44.

I know you may be thinking of the first few weeks of the 1914 campaigns but it still doesn't grab me. WW2 is just such a rich period!



      
yangtze
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Re:expansion question. Thu, 28 May 2009 00:41
Funnily enough, I had a stab at Memoir '17 a while back. See this Cambrai scenario:

http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/editor/view/?id=1784

Even funnier, here is the rule I came up with for mixed armour/ infantry units along the lines proposed by Timmuilwijk:

"The Allied armour units consist of 2 tank figures and two infantry figures (in other scenarios there may be only 1 tank figure and 3 infantry figures). They move as normal infantry (1 and fire, or 2), but ignore and automatically remove wire. They take casualties as an armour unit until the enemy attack after their last armour figure is removed. They fire as a normal infantry unit except for the following: whilst they contain at least 1 armour unit, they ignore any and all enemy defensive bonuses except the -1 die reductions for firing into a town, woods, or onto higher ground. Units in sandbag hexes may not ignore retreat results when attacked by armour. Armour units may not use overrun combat."
      
Timmuilwijk
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Re:expansion question. Thu, 28 May 2009 08:09
Indeed, I have read the rule, but I think that for the 1939-1940 scenario, this needs to be changed because the tanks were more powerful and there weren't a lot of defences dug by the Western Allies. Of course there are the exceptions of Abbeville and Arras, where de Gaulle used according to his study, the tanks as independent units, unlucky for him, the enemy had the bigger number and the more spirit. Anyway, I think that 2 inf + 2 tank will do, with the number rolled... indeed a very good idea!

Tim
      
Sgt Welsh
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Re:expansion question. Thu, 28 May 2009 11:59
Unfortunately De Gaulle's tanks meet 88mm and stukas!! As britih does at Arras.

But to come again to the basic question, it's seems italian expansion would have the preference of Britsh players and american players!! In a way, i could understand that as an opponant of brits in the desert. They fight in north africa, siscily, Italy, soviet union, balkans. Another advantage is to have the three axis forces ; german, japan, italian against british and american boys.

By the way what means "SWA"? unfortunately for us Miniatures figures are expensive so dont count to have many ones. So, a choice must be made and well made to push DOW to make some later in the initial spirit of the game.

So, one french medium tank must be enough to go with "East front expansion". What do you think of that?

And what about a "Stalingrad expansion" for 2012 Very Happy ? Urban fights!!

Cool

PS : WWI is difficult to developp and not so interesting as WWII in my opinion.

[Updated on: Thu, 28 May 2009 12:01]

      
ad79
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Re:expansion question. Thu, 28 May 2009 13:59
SWA means Special weapons assets.
In french it is the "Materiel" with the Arme Antichar etc.

If you follow this link it will take you to the card for Arme Antichar, and if you press the american flag on the top left of the page it will switch to the english text on the card and you will find out what the card translates to.

http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/fr/content/cards_compen dium/?id=anti-tank-gun
EDIT: The link will take you to the card for the anti-tank gun/arme antichar in the language you have set as your language.

[Updated on: Thu, 28 May 2009 14:02]

      
50th
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Re:expansion question. Thu, 28 May 2009 17:16
I think maybe we could use an expansion with French and Italian troops, tanks, and artillery. Since these both would only be used for specific times (for the French, only the defense of France did they fight as a country in 1940). I know the French fought alongside of the British and American forces at D-day, but I think they were infantry only at that point (correct me if I'm wrong). The Italians fought from the beginning to 1943 when they surrendered to the allies. The Italians had fewer tanks than Germany used to invade France. The Italian artillery guns were from world war one. So my solution, since the French didn't have many tanks and artillery, and the Italians didn't have many tanks and artillery, split this expansion to do both. It could include scenarios from the invasion of France, and the Italian campaign in Africa, the Italian campaign.
      
JJAZ
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Re:expansion question. Thu, 28 May 2009 18:11
I think you miss out on many other nations.
Like Polish ,Canadian etc....
And if you take 5 minutes to read the notes of my scenario.
The Liberation of Roeselare (French and English Version)
You would see that in many battles of the liberation , in the diffrent occupied country's the resistance played a big part in preventing casualties on the allied troops , by briefing oncoming allied troops , and give them vital information about the diffrent axis positions and sabotage them.
Sure at the beginning of the war country's like Belgium , Holland and France where not up to the modern German army,but lets not forget during the occupation what risks people from those country's took by joining the resistance.
Many Allied pilots survived thanks to them.

      
Kaufschtick
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Re:extension question. Thu, 28 May 2009 18:20
ad79 wrote on Wed, 27 May 2009 11:38

let's just face it.

We would all buy a french expansion, we would buy any expansion.

As Oldbloodandguts says I think a SWA expansion with different tank figures, tank-destroyers and so on and so on would be fun.


Agreed!!! Everything they have released for M44 has been a solid addition, IMHO. Smile

OldBloodandGuts wrote on Wed, 27 May 2009 11:29


I also think it would be cool if we were to see an expansion that veered away from nationality or theater. Tops on my list would be a tank-destroyer/self-propelled artillery expansion.

Germany could get a Jagdpanther and/or a Stug, Russia could get an SU-85, America could get an M7 Priest and an M10 (or M36).


I've been thinking the same thing myself. Instead of an "air pack", they could release an "armor pack" in the same spirit. They wouldn't have to make every tank ever made, just a few different ones would add quite a bit of flavor, like the Tigers have from Tigers in the Snow. Cool

I don't know about everybody else, but if you have ToI as I do, then the miniatures are already on hand for several different German tanks, and, lets see, there is an M10 for the Yanks,and they have a Matilda for the Brits. They also have universal carriers for the Brits, and half tracks for the Germans and the Yanks. So the miniature pieces do exist...

OldBloodandGuts wrote on Wed, 27 May 2009 11:29

I've been testing some TD rules, and have had a lot of fun with the following one:
"These units score a hit against armor on a roll of a tank, grenade, or star symbol. However, they only score a hit against infantry with a roll of the infantry symbol."


OB&G, that is a super idea, I'm really digging it! A little armor variation like that, IMHO, would add great flavor to the game!

Some other things, off the top of my head here; would be like, say for the M10 with the open top, that infantry shooting at it would also score a hit on the star symbol.

Maybe early Shermans would have the rule, every time one or more hits are rolled against this unit, roll one extra die, if a tank symbol is rolled, remove one extra figure. That would be the "Ronson Rule" I guess.

I think stuff like that would be great, just as long as the K.I.S.S. meathod is applied...(Heads off toward the basement mumbling to self "Let's see here, just how many of those ToI tanks do I have", followed by, "Oh yeah, that reminds me, I wonder how many beers are in the frig, could be time for a beer run." Rolling Eyes )

[Updated on: Thu, 28 May 2009 18:49]

      
Timmuilwijk
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Re:extension question. Thu, 28 May 2009 20:26
Well 50th, I have to correct you Very Happy The French did have armored divisions after 1940, formed mainly in the UK and the Free French colonies (if am correct Razz)

This division fought in France in 1944, liberating Paris after it had contributed to Operation Cobra, the French also did have a complete army (at least it was called an army Very Happy (sorry) in the south of France: French Army B)

see also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_France_duri ng_World_War_II
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_Armored_Division_(France)

well, to be exactly, with this game the sky is the limit...you can design and create just everything within M'44, from 3-D tiles to all kinds of miniatures...

Tim

[Updated on: Thu, 28 May 2009 20:26]

      
50th
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Re:extension question. Thu, 28 May 2009 22:02
thank you, I stand corrected.

Embarassed
      
Timmuilwijk
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Re:extension question. Thu, 28 May 2009 22:43
No problem, everyone including myself make mistakes Very Happy, it is just that I am a detailed history freak Razz especially when it concerns World War II Razz I see that you do too, so we share something mutual, although I must say that I am more specialized with the Western Front (1939-1940) North Africa (1939-1943) and the Western Front (1944-1945, in which my 'favorites' are Market Garden and the Bulge Smile )

I am now trying to focus more on the Pacific, because my knowledge on that one is quite underdeveloped compared to the rest of the theatres...Do you know any good books on the Pacific War?

Tim
      
50th
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Re:extension question. Thu, 28 May 2009 23:49
Timmuilwijk wrote on Thu, 28 May 2009 15:43

No problem, everyone including myself make mistakes Very Happy, it is just that I am a detailed history freak Razz especially when it concerns World War II Razz I see that you do too, so we share something mutual, although I must say that I am more specialized with the Western Front (1939-1940) North Africa (1939-1943) and the Western Front (1944-1945, in which my 'favorites' are Market Garden and the Bulge Smile )

I am now trying to focus more on the Pacific, because my knowledge on that one is quite underdeveloped compared to the rest of the theatres...Do you know any good books on the Pacific War?

Tim


From Makin to Bouginville (not sure of author), How They Won the War in the Pacific by Edwin P Hoyt, Marine Tank Battles in the Pacific by Oscar E Gilbert, Peleliu 1944 (author unknown) I have the complete Victory at Sea series on DVD, and Crusades in the Pacific Volumes II-IV on DVD's.

[Updated on: Thu, 28 May 2009 23:52]

      
OldBloodandGuts
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Re:extension question. Fri, 29 May 2009 00:40
Timmuilwijk wrote on Thu, 28 May 2009 14:26

Well 50th, I have to correct you Very Happy The French did have armored divisions after 1940, formed mainly in the UK and the Free French colonies (if am correct Razz)

This division fought in France in 1944, liberating Paris after it had contributed to Operation Cobra, the French also did have a complete army (at least it was called an army Very Happy (sorry) in the south of France: French Army B)

see also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_France_duri ng_World_War_II
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_Armored_Division_(France)

well, to be exactly, with this game the sky is the limit...you can design and create just everything within M'44, from 3-D tiles to all kinds of miniatures...

Tim


Don't forget that French forces (infantry and armor) opposed Americans at some of the Torch landings in 1942. One of these sites - Mehdia - is creatively recreated (and shamelessly self-promoted Razz ) in this scenario: http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/editor/view/?id=5819
      
Shoegaze99
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Re:expansion question. Mon, 01 June 2009 19:28
Bar-91 wrote on Wed, 27 May 2009 10:00

Would english and american gamers prefer italian one?

I would prefer an Italian pack first, but only because you could get more use out of it across all the other expansions. I'd take a look at a French box, too, assuming it came with some interesting scenarios.

What I'm really interested in right now are supplementary units of the type we've seen with the two map packs, as well as the anti-tank pieces in the Med. pack. I'd enjoy an expansion that was largely made up of stuff like that, including new scenarios to take advantage of them and rules to retrofit them to earlier scenarios.

But I'll take new armies, too. Smile
      
rooster5
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Re:expansion question. Sun, 07 June 2009 15:14
I would certainly buy anything Richard comes up with for this game, but I would like to see a French expansion pack. Being of Acadian decent, Cajun, I love playing Breakthrough to Gambleux and kicking but playing the french side. Eventhough it did not happen that way in real life, still fun to get a little retrobution for my long lost relatives. And I just like having the minis match their nationality. I would also like to see in the scenarios where the allies are concerned, the seperation of the minis for each nationality in the battle. Like in the campaigne book, a few of the scenarios have mixed British, canadienne, and US forces. The board looks too cool with all the mixed colors when you know which unit belonged to which nation. Maybe our senior members can put a side note for those that have all the expansions as to which unit is what color. Just a thought.
I have not played the French battles in the campgne book yet, but there again a French expansion pack would be great.
And with this expansion of coarse they would have to include the civillian resistors!
      
Shoegaze99
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Re:expansion question. Mon, 08 June 2009 17:59
rooster5 wrote on Sun, 07 June 2009 09:14

I would also like to see in the scenarios where the allies are concerned, the seperation of the minis for each nationality in the battle. Like in the campaigne book, a few of the scenarios have mixed British, canadienne, and US forces. The board looks too cool with all the mixed colors when you know which unit belonged to which nation.

After playing Market Garden, YES. I loved having the British and American forces on the board at once and look forward to doing the same with other scenarios.
      
    
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