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Nightrain
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Hill to Hill LoS question Wed, 22 July 2009 16:50
dear all,

i need to clarify about the LoS situation where a unit were on top of a hill shooting another unit who's on top of the hill but between them are a hill and a ground (so the source and target hill weren't connected)

similar to example B at this one :
http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/editor/view/?id=1096
only this time the allies unit is on a hill

thanks Smile
      
50th
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Re:Hill to Hill LoS question Wed, 22 July 2009 16:59
wouldn't this be like example E? As long as there were no units between the two hills like examples G or H. This is the way I've always thought it to be.


      
rasmussen81
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Re:Hill to Hill LoS question Wed, 22 July 2009 17:50
Hi Steve,

If I understand your question...neither unit would have LOS with the other. The reason for this is because the hills aren't continuous and the unit behind the two hills in example B don't have LOS, even if a unit was right up next to the hills.

I know this is hard to explain and I don't know if I've made it clear, but my understanding is that if hills are between units and they aren't on the same 'ridge', they can't see each other.
      
Nightrain
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Re:Hill to Hill LoS question Thu, 23 July 2009 03:50
hi jesse, thanks for your reply

but i will await the other to response (hopefully an official response from richard), as in my understanding, as long as units are on the hill, all the hill are considered in the same height, as there are no official rule that stated that hill has difference in height even thought they're apart, so i still consider it LOS
      
Nightrain
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Re:Hill to Hill LoS question Thu, 23 July 2009 03:59
50th wrote on Wed, 22 July 2009 21:59

wouldn't this be like example E? As long as there were no units between the two hills like examples G or H. This is the way I've always thought it to be.





hi 50th
actually it's kinda similar to example E but the only difference is one of the units were not standing on the edge of the hill

maybe this one will clear things up :

H1 H2 G H3

H is hill and G is lower ground
you can see that H1 and H2 is connected but not with H3
so imagine a tank is on H1 shooting a tank is H3, is this LOS ?

      
rasmussen81
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Re:Hill to Hill LoS question Thu, 23 July 2009 05:06
I see your point and it would make sense because the hills say that they only protect from lower terrain. But I think the hill between does block LOS. Razz

It would be good to know for sure though...
      
50th
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Re:Hill to Hill LoS question Thu, 23 July 2009 06:40
Steve Nightrain wrote on Wed, 22 July 2009 20:59

50th wrote on Wed, 22 July 2009 21:59

wouldn't this be like example E? As long as there were no units between the two hills like examples G or H. This is the way I've always thought it to be.





hi 50th
actually it's kinda similar to example E but the only difference is one of the units were not standing on the edge of the hill

maybe this one will clear things up :

H1 H2 G H3

H is hill and G is lower ground
you can see that H1 and H2 is connected but not with H3
so imagine a tank is on H1 shooting a tank is H3, is this LOS ?




I agree with rasmussen because the hill in front of the unit would block the terrain. However in real life, if the hills were the same height, you should be able to see the unit on the other hilltop. In other games I play, they have what they call levels. So you can have a level 1 hill to a level 8 hill (which would be a mountain). In this game we deal with three levels, ground, hill, and mountain. I know that if they are on the same hilltop like example D, they have LOS. But in this situation, I think I would have to agree with Rass. (also because I think he plays this game a lot more than I do, and knows whats going on!)
(and I can't spell either without a spell checker and my dictionary program to tell me what the correct spelling is, just telling me it's spelled wrong is
not good enough!)
      
ad79
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Re:Hill to Hill LoS question Thu, 23 July 2009 09:48
I disagree with Ras and 50th.

I think you would have LOS in this situation.

You are on the same level and there is no unit or terrain that block LOS in the way.

I don't think the Hill in between the units block LOS. It wouldn't make sense that it sould suddenly block line of site just because there is a hill missing in the chain.

For example H1,H2,H3,H4 with units on 1 and 4 would give line of sight.
So H1, H2, Level ground, H3 should also have LOS. There is nothing (obvious)blocking LOS.

But I think Richard or the DOW team should edit the LOS scenario to include this example and give us an official answer.
      
Antoine
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Re:Hill to Hill LoS question Thu, 23 July 2009 11:11
Hi guys,

Ras and 50th are right. The units don't have LOS because the hills are not continuous. I will update the hill scenario in the database to cover this situation.

I agree this may seem odd, but this is a strict application of the rules.


[Updated on: Thu, 23 July 2009 11:12]

      
GreatDane
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Re:Hill to Hill LoS question Thu, 23 July 2009 11:29
Antoine wrote on Thu, 23 July 2009 11:11

I agree this may seem odd, but this is a strict application of the rules.

I don't find it odd at all.
However, I would find it odd if a little sniper on the ground between two hills would block LOS, but another hill wouldn't...

Connected hills is an exception to the standard rule of LOS. Since separated hills doesn't have an exception, it should be clear that they are blocking just as much as anything in this game!
      
Nightrain
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Re:Hill to Hill LoS question Thu, 23 July 2009 12:19
Hi Antoine
i believe you represent an official answer to this so there will be no LOS to that situation, thanks a lot Smile
      
Antoine
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Re:Hill to Hill LoS question Thu, 23 July 2009 12:47
Steve Nightrain wrote on Thu, 23 July 2009 12:19

Hi Antoine
i believe you represent an official answer to this


Yes I do Smug
      
ad79
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Re:Hill to Hill LoS question Fri, 24 July 2009 09:40
So H1,G,H2,H3 doesn't have LOS.

But if H1 and H2 was connected by two hills in the neighbouring hexes, (Like in example H)it would become a continous hill and have LOS. Is that correct?

Made a scenario to illustrate my question.(Will remove it when I get an answer.)
http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/editor/view/?id=6091

The question is: Does B have LOS?
Will the hill ridge in example B be a continous hill?

[Updated on: Fri, 24 July 2009 09:45]

      
Nightrain
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Re:Hill to Hill LoS question Fri, 24 July 2009 11:18
i would say that your B is LOS because that's a continuous hill

but logically i would say that example A should be LOS (apart from the official answer) because in the game, there's no statement that stated hill's height are different because the game differentiate the altitude level based on ground, hill, and mountain, therefore all hills should be considered in the same height Smile
      
ad79
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Re:Hill to Hill LoS question Fri, 24 July 2009 12:17
If you are correct and B have LOS, I would agree with Antoine on his statement about it being odd that A doesn't have LOS.


      
gheintze
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Re:Hill to Hill LoS question Fri, 24 July 2009 15:53
I don't believe there is LOS in example B. If it's not in the M'44 Hill examples I think that it was in the BattleLore examples (which are no longer online). I'll try to find it when I get home.

I think the rationale is that if the intervening hexes were hills (as in C) there would be LOS. But since there is a plains hex in between, that means they are on two separate hills (even though they are connected). Confusing, but it makes sense to me.

You only look at the hexes through which the LOS would pass when making these judgments I think.
      
Nightrain
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Re:Hill to Hill LoS question Sat, 25 July 2009 03:53
again, we shall wait for antoine answer about example B Smile
      
stevens
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Re:Hill to Hill LoS question Mon, 03 August 2009 00:21
And here is Antoine's updated answer in example J.

http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/editor/view/?id=1096

Thanks for the labor of love, Antoine!
      
    
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