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Blorbo
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Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Wed, 07 October 2009 20:17

I have nearly everything for memoir and 2 of some of the more important bits but I refuse to buy the campaign bag. I love the game and appreciate the production value of all the expansions except the bag. Even Hedgerow hell with its one paper map and 6 tiny trucks is great.
The cost of the bag is just too much being equal to some complete games (Shadows, Smallworld and TTR to name a few). Worse still I feel kinda forced to buy the bag because I want breakthrough. I have thought about making my own map but one of the reasons I play games like memoir is because I can open the box and go.
I can't stress how much I enjoy playing memoir. I've played through the whole campaign book and most recently got around to losing (as soviets) Tigers in the snow. I just wish DOW would sell me a breakthrough map. I would be happy to pay the 20 bucks and save the other 25 for the next overlord map or w/e.

Anyone else refuse to buy the bag or is it just me?
      
nemesszili
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Wed, 07 October 2009 20:37
No, you're not alone. I also wish to get Breakthrough. Unfortunately, not even the Bag is available here, so there's no option for me... Confused

[Updated on: Wed, 07 October 2009 20:41]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Wed, 07 October 2009 20:43
Eric has talked about releasing Breakthrough maps similar to the pre-printed Overlord maps, so you guys might get your wish!

I do have to say though, I wasn't sure about the bag either but it's supper useful for when I want to move my Memoir '44 stuff around. I think it was worth the money just for the ease of storage and transportation. But that's me. Smile
      
nemesszili
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Wed, 07 October 2009 20:55
Yeah, I would take both of them; but I simply got no chance to buy it (only if I'll pay 50$ for transportation + additional taxes).
      
Sgt Storm
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Wed, 07 October 2009 21:44
I find the bag fairly useful. I store all small components from all expansions and 2 base sets in a tackle box. That leaves the boards, large rule books, campaign book and paper maps, all of which fit neatly in the campaign bag. So I went from a large number of boxes, 6+ to one tackle box and the bag. That saves a lot of space on my shelves.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Wed, 07 October 2009 21:50
I have all of my Memoir '44 stuff in my bag too. One set of everything fits nicely in the bag.

I took most of the small pieces and have them in Viewtainers or little tackle boxes that save some room. I'm even able to fit my Player Aids, FAQ Book, and some help sheets.

My wife really appreciates that my Memoir collection is in one place that can be easily put in a closet so it's not all over the place.
      
Sgt Storm
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Wed, 07 October 2009 22:22
Yeah, a wife can be a great motivator to condense ones mess into a small area. Laughing

But seriously, I used to have anywhere from 3-5 boxes open for one game and was struggling with some of the less than optimal packaging (e.g., air pack). Now, I just pop the tackle box open, either top section or bottom section, and I can set up all scenarios.

However, my box is now full and the next expansion is going to drive me to further innovation. Rolling Eyes

[Updated on: Wed, 07 October 2009 22:22]

      
Timmuilwijk
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Thu, 08 October 2009 10:12
One question, about the tackle box, did you create it by yourself or did you buy something to put everything into. (plastic storage box or so). I am struggling with the same problem that I need a lot of space,sadly I do not have the Bag yet...so I'm trying to find a solution in which I can put all terrain tiles in one box (each expansion another place Razz) and figures in the other or something like that...

Tim
      
GreatDane
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Thu, 08 October 2009 13:43
I have two sets of everything (except the spare airplanes, second Overlord and diito Campaign Book) in one bag. And that includes a dice tray and a binder with the FAQ and the best SFTFs. I also have a second bag in case the first get worn out (luckily it seems to be quite sturdy).
      
Vulch
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Thu, 08 October 2009 13:50
I like the way this thread is going.

I have two Base Games and all the expansions in their original boxes. They just fit into the campaign bag, but it's a very tight squeeze. Plus the aircarft in the air expansion are always falling out of their little slots and I am worried they may get broken.

I have been thinking of redistributing some items out of their boxes to save space.

Is there any disadvantage to keeping all the terrain tiles (from all expansions) in one place?

Do you keep the base games intact and just redistribute everything else into the tackle box?

Do you keep the smaller tokens from each expansion with the apropriate figures, or again all in one place?

What size tackle box do you use, how many compartments, do you have a model number or picture please?

Cheers
Vulch

[Updated on: Thu, 08 October 2009 13:51]

      
sam1812
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Thu, 08 October 2009 14:25
When I play from the box, I put everything back in the box it came from.

Whe I play on Vassal, I put all my files away in the proper folders. Smile
      
Cheng
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Thu, 08 October 2009 14:26
I find it very useful to have all the terrain tiles in one box, so you have greater access to all of them. (When you need a ton of forest tiles, for instance). Take a look at the pictures in my user gallery. I tried to sort them in a logical manner, then I printed a location sheet and taped it to the lid, so it takes very little time to setup any scenario. I also divided the armies into separate Axis and Allies boxes.
      
Sgt Storm
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Thu, 08 October 2009 16:47
Look on my user pages. I have pictures of the Plano 1155 Magnum. It has two levels, a handle, and holds all pieces from all expansions and 2 base sets, including cards, card holders, dice, small rule booklets.

Its perfect. I don't know if they still make it or not.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Thu, 08 October 2009 17:07
I put all of my Terrain in their own container called a Viewtainer. That way my Base Tiles are in one, my Terrain Pack tiles in another, Pacific Theater ones in a third, etc. When I go to set up a battle I just grab the containers I need and get to work.

I have my troops stored in basic bead containers with my base game troops and Japanese in one, and the British and Russians in another. I put the tokens and such in their own little organizer. When I play, I just take the viewtainers I need, the troop box, and the token container.

I thought about getting a tackle box that could fit everything but I didn't find one I liked and this system has worked great.

EDIT: I think my whole storage solution cost less than $25, which I thought was a good deal.

[Updated on: Thu, 08 October 2009 17:08]

      
Vulch
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Thu, 08 October 2009 17:15
rasmussen81 wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 16:07

I put all of my Terrain in their own container called a Viewtainer. That way my Base Tiles are in one, my Terrain Pack tiles in another, Pacific Theater ones in a third, etc. When I go to set up a battle I just grab the containers I need and get to work.


Which size?
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Thu, 08 October 2009 17:24
Vulch wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 08:15

rasmussen81 wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 16:07

I put all of my Terrain in their own container called a Viewtainer. That way my Base Tiles are in one, my Terrain Pack tiles in another, Pacific Theater ones in a third, etc. When I go to set up a battle I just grab the containers I need and get to work.


Which size?


I use the 2.75"x5" viewtainers for the Base Terrain, Pacific, Eastern, and Med. Terrain. They each have their own container and I've written which expansion it is on the rubber base and lid. The Terrain Pack tiles fit perfectly in the 2.75" x 8" viewtainer. Cool
      
Vulch
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Thu, 08 October 2009 18:06
Sgt Storm wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 15:47

Look on my user pages. I have pictures of the Plano 1155 Magnum. It has two levels, a handle, and holds all pieces from all expansions and 2 base sets, including cards, card holders, dice, small rule booklets.

Its perfect. I don't know if they still make it or not.



Sgt Storm

I couldn't work out from your description; does the Plano 1155 fit in the campaign bag? I want something like that, but want it all to fit in the campaign bag.

Found it on an ebay fishing tackle shop.

Vulch
      
Timmuilwijk
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Thu, 08 October 2009 19:54
Nice solutions indeed, however I do not live in the USA ( Embarassed ) although your solutions are great inspiration for me. Now I know to get the Dutch counterparts! Indeed I want one big one probably with a lot of different storage units in them for every nation one and to put the terrain tiles apart from each other (divided per expansion probably). It would be nice though as DoW would create something like this as well...they could even promote it by already putting an expansion or the base game in place, so that people would really want to buy it...Very Happy

Tim
      
Cheng
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Thu, 08 October 2009 20:31
I don't understand why so many people separate their tiles by expansion. They all fit in one box, so I find it much more helpful to sort them by terrain type.
      
Vulch
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Thu, 08 October 2009 21:30
The Plano 1155 is a fishing tackle box. Don't know about elsewhere, but here in England craft shops like "Hobbycraft" have similar types of partitioned box for a lot cheaper than fishing shops. Probably not as sturdy or waterproof, but then they don't need to be for M44.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Thu, 08 October 2009 21:39
Cheng wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 11:31

I don't understand why so many people separate their tiles by expansion. They all fit in one box, so I find it much more helpful to sort them by terrain type.


I don't want my tiles all mixed up because when I see a battle, I know to look in the correct expansion pack. If I sorted them my terrain type, I would think I would have more trouble finding them.

It I'm looking for a desert hill, should I look with the desert tiles, or might I have put those tiles with the winter stuff since they have Winter Hills on the back? If I divide them by hills, forest, etc. then I run into problems with what to do with tracks on one side and whatever is on the other side.

In short, I would rather just be able to grab the correct expansion and know that the tiles I need are in there! Cool
      
tank commander
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Thu, 08 October 2009 22:29
I store all my tiles (3 base games, 1 Terrain Pack, 1 Air Pack, 2 each of East Front, Pacific Front and Med Front) in three plastic containers sorted by type.

Check out the pics on my user page here:

http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/mypage/34328/m44/gallery

I have the boxes labeled and a master sheet that makes finding any tile easy.
      
Vulch
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Mon, 12 October 2009 12:38
Had a look at the Plano 1155 box that Sgt Storm uses (local fishing tackle shop has one and it's really nice. Very strong, lots of good sized compartments.

Problem is that it wont fit in the campaign bag and I want to keep everything together in that, rather than having the campaign bag plus another box.

I have decided to keep my two base games in their original boxes, but to decant the Air Pack, Army Packs, Terrain Pack and Overlord into other containers. Map packs, FAQ and Campaign book all fit nicely into the back pocket of the campaign bag.

So I am now on a search for three partitioned boxes. Two (16x24x5.5cm) that will fit in the front pouches of the bag and one larger one (32x30x9cm) that will fit in the remaining space in the bag. I am sure I can get everything I have in those boxes. I have all the boxes in the bag at the moment, but it's a bit of a squeeze and some of the boxes are getting crushed.

In a weird sort of way, organising everything is nearly as much fun as playing the game Shocked

Vulch
      
Boddekker
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Mon, 12 October 2009 17:57
I'm with Rasmussen - I keep my terrain tiles together by expansion. I tried doing it by tile type, but it just added to the setup time.

I keep my tiles in the original M44 box in Hefty One Zip Quart Freezer Bags (the ones with the pull tab on the outside). Big enough to keep the entire terrain pack in, with a big white label on the outside to write the expansion name on. All the expansions fit inside the Memoir Box with room for lots more.

Meantime, all the figures, chits, dice, etc., fit in the four divided containers carried over to the Campaign Bag from my Bead Bag days. I've got room for everything so far, and have one of the front expansion pockets open for, well, a future expansion.

I'll try and get a picture of my system up when my daughter makes her next home-from-college trip and gives me back my camera... Confused
      
Mighty Jim 83
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Wed, 14 October 2009 13:54
Going back to the original question about the breakthrough maps - are they paper maps like hedgerow hell / tigets in the snow etc. or proper maps like in the original game?
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Wed, 14 October 2009 14:49
Mighty Jim 83 wrote on Wed, 14 October 2009 04:54

Going back to the original question about the breakthrough maps - are they paper maps like hedgerow hell / tigets in the snow etc. or proper maps like in the original game?


Paper like the Overlord maps. Actually, the Overlord maps are like the Breakthrough, since it was out first. Cool
      
SirKirby
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Wed, 14 October 2009 15:20
Not got them in front of me, and I've also been away from the game for nearly a year, but I think two Battlelore maps will do you nicely.

From another thread, just to confirm...

The Memoir '44 Breakthrough Map is 17 hexes deep (between players) and 13 hexes across. The Battlelore Epic map is 13 hexes deep (between players) and 17 hexes across.

... so I think two Battlelore maps gives you a huge Breakthrough map. (If I'm not mistaken...).

Think I also bought at least one of my two Battlelore maps separately... Can't remember the price, but two hardboard maps are surely the way to go!

My only beef with DoW is that Battlelore maps don't come in Winter and Desert formats Very Happy !

Battlelore is a pretty terrific game too, if you ever get bored with M44!
      
clexton27
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Wed, 14 October 2009 15:51
SIRKIRBY states:

Quote:

Battlelore is a pretty terrific game too, if you ever get bored with M44!


Blasphemy!!!!!

Shocked Shocked
      
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Wed, 14 October 2009 16:09
SirKirby wrote on Wed, 14 October 2009 06:20


The Memoir '44 Breakthrough Map is 17 hexes deep (between players) and 13 hexes across. The Battlelore Epic map is 13 hexes deep (between players) and 17 hexes across.

... so I think two Battlelore maps gives you a huge Breakthrough map. (If I'm not mistaken...).


I don't have the Epic boards, but I don't think they will work as well as you might hope. Like you noticed, the Epic boards are turned 90 degrees from the Breakthrough map, which means when you try to set up the battle, you'll have a tough time and when you try to retreat I believe you'll only have one possible path to take.
      
SirKirby
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Wed, 14 October 2009 16:47
Well, I'll have to get them out and try... But why wouldn't they work -- if they work perfectly well for Battlelore, which is fundamentally the same system...?

@stevens... I did say "IF" Laughing

What took me away from M44 wasn't Battlelore but the computer game the Matrix version of Talonsoft's East Front (am I allowed to mention that here...?).

It's like M44 only there's no messing about trying to remember which hex has the railroad station printed on the back of it... Very Happy

[Updated on: Wed, 14 October 2009 16:47]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Wed, 14 October 2009 17:01
SirKirby wrote on Wed, 14 October 2009 07:47

Well, I'll have to get them out and try... But why wouldn't they work -- if they work perfectly well for Battlelore, which is fundamentally the same system...?


It's not the system that wouldn't work, it's the hex orientation. I believe the Battlelore hexes are rotated 90 degrees compared to the Memoir '44 hexes. So your board will be different with the Battlelore map and it'll affect the way the game works.

But I could be wrong. I don't have Battlelore to compare the boards. Smile
      
ad79
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Wed, 14 October 2009 18:20
A Memoir Breakthrough map is as Kirby mentioned 13 hexes wide and 17 hexes deep. The left and right sections are 4 hexes on the baseline and the middle section is 5 hexes.

A Battlelore Epic map is 17 hexes wide and 13 hexes deep. The left and right sections are 6 hexes wide on the baseline and the middle section is 5 hexes wide.

Using two Epic maps could work, but you would have to use some serious overlay, because you only need 4 more hexes to get the proper depth. And you would need to make the outer 2 hexes on the left and right a no go zone to get the right witdh of the battlefield.

ANother thing you can do is use the winter/desert board with some overlay on the regular Memoir board to make a Breakthrough map. "Counterattack of the BEL" even has a Railroad track running the entire witdh of the battlefield where you join the boards together.
      
SirKirby
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Wed, 14 October 2009 22:36
Ah, now I think I'm with you!

You mean the Battlelore maps aren't compatible because (1) you couldn't get an exact match in the Scenario Editor and thus (2) couldn't set up an exact fit for any of the existing scenarios, right? It's not that the hex layout would make it unplayable...

(I actually did play a few M44 games that way...)

However, I'd still say that (1) if you REALLY want a hardboard, not paper map, and (2) think part of the fun of M44 is designing your own battles, including laying them out, even if you never get to reuse them, then two Battlelore maps is still a possibility...

I'm positive I bought at least one Battlelore map on its own from my local games store for under 20 euros...

But yes, I'd buy the real thing as well if it were made available as a hardboard map (especially if the reverse were a winter board).

(PS Failing anything else, couldn't we at least get a crashed Stuka painted on that... Laughing ?)
      
ad79
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Wed, 14 October 2009 22:43
That is basically what I said yes.

Any C&C map will work for Memoir if you make your own scenario, and you can make a breakthrough map out of 2 Epic maps if you want to.

For battlelore you probably bought one half of the map in the Epic expansion and got the other half in the basegame. Right?

Breakthrough maps in cardboard would be nice, but I think the papermap works fine too.

And I own the Campaign bag, and think it is useful.
      
Sgt Storm
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Wed, 14 October 2009 22:44
I don't think you have it yet. Rotating the board and playing from what effectively is the left and right edges drastically hampers movement.

In a normal board, when moving forward or backward there are two hex sides through which you can move. This makes it possible to attack a single hex in the next row from two hexes in the current row. Put in simpler way, hexes form rows across from left to right and when moving left or right, you have one hex side through which you can move (i.e., you must move along the row).

If you turn the board 90 degrees, the rows go from one player's side to the other. Therefore, to move forward you can only move down the row (really a column) and hence have one hex on which to advance or retreat.
      
SirKirby
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Wed, 14 October 2009 23:15
I really must be missing something frighteningly obvious, as I've got both boards on my table in front of me right now, and I can't see that that is the case.

On either board, you can retreat into any one of two hexes.

There's the one (??!!) Breakthough scenario available:
http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/editor/view/?id=3496

Retreat into any one of two hexes, right?

There's an Epic Battlelore game:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/227693

Retreat into any one of two hexes...

What's the difference...?

True, the Breakthrough board will be 4 hexes deeper, but that's the only difference I can see.

(Neat that you could combine any number of Breakthrough maps, though... Razz )

      
ad79
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Thu, 15 October 2009 00:03
He is talking about taking the Epic map and just laying it on the side, so you have a 17 deep map and 13 wide. That is what wouldn't work, because the hexes wouldn't be going north-south any longer, but east-west.

      
clexton27
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Thu, 15 October 2009 00:16
To get the Battlore map into the orientation with which you will want to play BREAKTHROUGH scenarios you will need to turn it 90 degrees. This will give you 13 hexes wide by 17 hexes deep.

Look now at the normal Memoir 44 board setup. The points of the hexes are facing you when oriented normally. The same is true on the Battlelore map when oriented normally. However, when you turn the Battlelore map 90 degrees the points of the hexes are now parallel to you going horizontally instead of vertically.
This seems to only be a slight appearance issue, however, it will greatly effect the angle and number of hexes for retreating. Instead of the 2 hex choices usually behind each hex, now you have 3 hexes behind each hex. Interesting dynamic this will create and probably alter the effects of all movement and the game as a whole.

/\
\/ vertical <><><><> horizontal


[Updated on: Thu, 15 October 2009 00:35]

      
SirKirby
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Thu, 15 October 2009 01:33
Yes, but that's because you are insisting on having a 17-hex deep map and sticking rigidly to the retreat rules.

You can still have a 13-hex deep map (an improvement on the deepth of the normal M44 board) and get your hardboard map as or more cheaply (part of the original poster's doubt); and you could still play 17-deep provided that you had a house rule that allowed you to retreat provided you moved further away from the nearest enemy unit/s.

In that way, you'd have only one hex to retreat into if attacked by three adjacent-to-each-other) enemy units (none if they were three, non-adjacent-to-each-other); but still have two hexes to retreat into if there were only two adjacent-to-each-other attackers.

I'd provide a diagram, but it's a bit late...

It might make for some interesting tactical variations (a good thing, surely).
      
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Re:Breakthrough maps - my beef ONLY beef with memoir Thu, 15 October 2009 01:43
I don't know that anyone is trying to say you couldn't use the BattleLore boards for Memoir '44...but they don't replace the Breakthrough maps.

House rules are always interesting and people enjoy playing with them, but I think everyone agrees that the Epic boards are not a "cheap" cardboard version of Breakthrough.

If you decide to try Memoir on your boards, let us know how it goes. Sounds like it could be interesting. Smile
      
    
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