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Brummbar44
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Terrain 65 - Balkas. Let the FAQs begin! Fri, 27 November 2009 18:46
Ok, having played SoS (Sword of Stalingrad) from each side now I simply couldn't avoid this terrain (trust me, I tried!). As a result the summary card helped but a new problem has developed. In previous expansions, the terrain always has rules that were then summarized with the cards (Air Pack). This is not the case here, we simply have the card to go off of.

So here is roughly what it says.

- Unit moving in or exiting...must stop and may move no further on that turn.

Traditionally, 'move no further' denies the ability to overrun and take ground (citing wire for example) ....but it's not clear here. We played as per the traditional method. However, if the unit in a Balka attacks another unit in an adjacent and contiguous Balka hex does that still apply?
For that matter, technically speaking, a unit that is in one Balka hex must stop when it moves into an adjacent and contiguous Balka hex which seems counter intuitive but that's what the card says!

- Unit may move out of a Balka directly onto a bridge hex and vice versa but must stop when doing so.

This seems superfluous given the rule above!? Don't units always stop when moving out of or into a Balka hex anyway? What am I missing here?

Anyway, great scenario but as I have stated, there will be a whole slew of FAQs to come out of this one!
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Terrain 65 - Balkas. Let the FAQs begin! Fri, 27 November 2009 18:57
Are you hinting that I don't have enough to do over here in Oregon, Malcolm?! Laughing
      
Brummbar44
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Re:Terrain 65 - Balkas. Let the FAQs begin! Fri, 27 November 2009 19:01
rasmussen81 wrote on Fri, 27 November 2009 09:57

Are you hinting that I don't have enough to do over here in Oregon, Malcolm?! Laughing


LOL! You may become quite busy Wink

The Combat Cards are great fun but sure to add to your growing list!

Great job again by the way Jesse on the FAQs.
      
ad79
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Re:Terrain 65 - Balkas. Let the FAQs begin! Fri, 27 November 2009 19:50
Hopefully it shares the rules of Gullies except that the sides are passable, but you must stop when entering or exiting.

That should mean no movement restriction through open end.

Jesse,remember you also have to make the Combat cards tuckbox. Laughing

[Updated on: Fri, 27 November 2009 19:50]

      
Brummbar44
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Re:Terrain 65 - Balkas. Let the FAQs begin! Fri, 27 November 2009 20:08
ad79 wrote on Fri, 27 November 2009 10:50

Hopefully it shares the rules of Gullies except that the sides are passable, but you must stop when entering or exiting.

That should mean no movement restriction through open end.



That would be a fair assumption but the card doesn't support it (like the Wadis/Gullies card does).

So it would mean that, even though you are moving along the Balka, each hex of movement would stop you (though firing out at -1 you don't tend to stay in there long! LOL!).

That brings up another question that seems a little counter intuitive but never the less is supported by the card. Say one unit is in a Balka and is adjacent to another unit in a Balka (contiguous, not a different Balka altogether) then it would be -1 die for the attacking unit being in a Balka, -1 for the target being in a Balka gives you a net result of 1 die!

Again, you'll likely play like me and try to avoid them altogether! LOL!


      
ad79
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Re:Terrain 65 - Balkas. Let the FAQs begin! Sat, 28 November 2009 01:14
Brummbär wrote on Fri, 27 November 2009 20:08



Again, you'll likely play like me and try to avoid them altogether! LOL!





Yeah, probably! But unlike you I have to wait until DOW officially releases the battlemap. Razz

      
Brummbar44
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Re:Terrain 65 - Balkas. Let the FAQs begin! Sat, 28 November 2009 01:45
ad79 wrote on Fri, 27 November 2009 16:14

Brummbär wrote on Fri, 27 November 2009 20:08



Again, you'll likely play like me and try to avoid them altogether! LOL!





Yeah, probably! But unlike you I have to wait until DOW officially releases the battlemap. Razz




True.

Just giving a heads up so that when it comes to everyone else playing, they will know the answers then instead of scratching their heads.
      
RBorg
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Re:Terrain 65 - Balkas. Let the FAQs begin! Sat, 28 November 2009 05:48
Hi Brummbär

Brummbär wrote on Fri, 27 November 2009 12:46

Ok, having played SoS (Sword of Stalingrad) from each side now I simply couldn't avoid this terrain (trust me, I tried!). As a result the summary card helped but a new problem has developed. In previous expansions, the terrain always has rules that were then summarized with the cards (Air Pack). This is not the case here, we simply have the card to go off of.

And that is a problem?

So here is roughly what it says.

- Unit moving in or exiting...must stop and may move no further on that turn.

Traditionally, 'move no further' denies the ability to overrun and take ground (citing wire for example) ....but it's not clear here.


(RB) If we don't read more into what the summary card states, I believe Balka plays as the card reads.

Quote:

We played as per the traditional method. However, if the unit in a Balka attacks another unit in an adjacent and contiguous Balka hex does that still apply?


(RB) Moving onto a Balka hex, even when onto an adjacent Balka hex means the unit cannot 'move no further'. Which clearly means, moving onto a Balka hex will prevent the unit from taking ground or making an overrun (citing forests).

Quote:

For that matter, technically speaking, a unit that is in one Balka hex must stop when it moves into an adjacent and contiguous Balka hex which seems counter intuitive but that's what the card says!


(RB) Counter Intuitive perhaps, but that is how those dam Russian Balka terrain hexes do play out Wink

Quote:

- Unit may move out of a Balka directly onto a bridge hex and vice versa but must stop when doing so.

This seems superfluous given the rule above!? Don't units always stop when moving out of or into a Balka hex anyway? What am I missing here?


(RB) The reason for this statement was to avoid players thinking a unit on a Balka hex could be under the bridge hiding in the Balka. A unit on a Balka/Bridge hex is considered on the bridge, just like a unit on a bridge over a fordable river is not considered on the fordable river. I could go on, but I hope you see the logic.

Quote:

Anyway, great scenario but as I have stated, there will be a whole slew of FAQs to come out of this one!


(RB) Thanks you for your kind words, sorry the Balka terrain rules were not as clear as you had anticipated.

Richard Borg
      
Brummbar44
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Re:Terrain 65 - Balkas. Let the FAQs begin! Sat, 28 November 2009 19:36
Thanks Richard very much for the clarifications.

I guess the issues really stem from the graphics of the Balka itself and the contiguous nature of the images (gives the perception that there is an 'outside' and 'inside' to the Balka). In essence they seem to act more like the Ergs and Ridges and may have been better served with a graphic more akin to those.

This coupled with just a card as opposed to a more detailed rule (that we find in the books) and the card (which is a summary) makes interpretation difficult.

I do generally apply the rules as written and it keeps things moving (for the record, we did play it correctly and yes, the Balkas are downright nasty!)

RBorg wrote on Fri, 27 November 2009 20:48



Quote:

- Unit may move out of a Balka directly onto a bridge hex and vice versa but must stop when doing so.

This seems superfluous given the rule above!? Don't units always stop when moving out of or into a Balka hex anyway? What am I missing here?


(RB) The reason for this statement was to avoid players thinking a unit on a Balka hex could be under the bridge hiding in the Balka. A unit on a Balka/Bridge hex is considered on the bridge, just like a unit on a bridge over a fordable river is not considered on the fordable river. I could go on, but I hope you see the logic.


Ok, I see now. I certainly didn't get that from the card though to be honest. So in essence, the unit is on the bridge not the Balka (and therefore none of the Balka restrictions or bonuses apply)

RBorg

Quote:

Anyway, great scenario but as I have stated, there will be a whole slew of FAQs to come out of this one!


(RB) Thanks you for your kind words, sorry the Balka terrain rules were not as clear as you had anticipated.

Richard Borg



Thank you again for the many hours of play and for your clarifications. It's not always easy to say what you need in a card sized space. Generally, the efforts of you and Days of Wonder on this have been concise.

Cheers!


      
    
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