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Dasher
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Is this Okay, or Do I Need Permission? Tue, 08 December 2009 17:47
I wanted to save-and-paste some of the artwork from the Card Compendium to make facsimiles of the cards not yet produced by DoW.

Specifically, I wanted to make the Nations Cards for the Brtitish and Italians, the Terrain Cards for Ergs & Ridges and Escarpments and the Troops Cards for Tigers and Supply Trucks.

I figured would just go to the appropriate page in the Card Compendium, "Save Picture As" for the card back and detail side, then insert it into a card-sized picture box in Word. Then I would print them, fold them, tuck them in a sleeve and voila!, I would have a nice little temporary card to refer to until the actual ones get printed.

I am told that should anyone at a convention see these, I risk being reported to DoW, sued for copyright infringement, having torch-and-pitchfork-wielding mobs howling for my blood, and that I would generally be responsible for bringing about the collapse of Western Civilization.

Now, being a writer myself, I am very keen on the protection of intellectual property, but I saw someone who'd painted an entire 28mm Sci-Fi army inspired by one of my creations, and frankly, I was thrilled out of my socks at the compliment, but hey, that's me. Now, just to be honest, if he were selling sculpts of them without at least asking my permission, sure, I'd be peeved. So I am fine with asking permission for this before proceeding.

But am I really the Copyright AntiChrist if I just want to make myself six cards to go with the two sets of everything (three of the Air Pack) I buy for Memoir '44?

Confused
      
PanzerRunes
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Re:Is this Okay, or Do I Need Permission? Tue, 08 December 2009 18:47
I just wouldn't take them to a convention or a sanctioned DoW event...

Send Eric at DoW a private e-mail and he will answer your question fully.
      
stevens
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Re:Is this Okay, or Do I Need Permission? Tue, 08 December 2009 20:02
Actually, DOW has just published these cards and is releasing them in their new offering :
SWORD OF STALINGRAD

http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/content/op3/

Quote:

This Battle Map set also includes 2 Standard scenarios playable on a regular Memoir '44 board - Mamayev Kurgan and Pavlov, Hero of the Soviet Union; and Summary cards for the previously published Battle Maps and Mediterranean Theater. Also includes a revised Behind Enemy Lines Command card.


So maybe a new purchase is in order...... Shocked
      
Dasher
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Re:Is this Okay, or Do I Need Permission? Thu, 10 December 2009 18:13
Oh, cool, okay, thanks to you both, guys!

[Updated on: Thu, 10 December 2009 18:14]

      
Maimed
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Re:Is this Okay, or Do I Need Permission? Fri, 11 December 2009 00:56
Darion Leonidas wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 17:47

I wanted to save-and-paste some of the artwork from the Card Compendium to make facsimiles of the cards not yet produced by DoW.

Specifically, I wanted to make the Nations Cards for the Brtitish and Italians, the Terrain Cards for Ergs & Ridges and Escarpments and the Troops Cards for Tigers and Supply Trucks.

I figured would just go to the appropriate page in the Card Compendium, "Save Picture As" for the card back and detail side, then insert it into a card-sized picture box in Word. Then I would print them, fold them, tuck them in a sleeve and voila!, I would have a nice little temporary card to refer to until the actual ones get printed.

I am told that should anyone at a convention see these, I risk being reported to DoW, sued for copyright infringement, having torch-and-pitchfork-wielding mobs howling for my blood, and that I would generally be responsible for bringing about the collapse of Western Civilization.

Now, being a writer myself, I am very keen on the protection of intellectual property, but I saw someone who'd painted an entire 28mm Sci-Fi army inspired by one of my creations, and frankly, I was thrilled out of my socks at the compliment, but hey, that's me. Now, just to be honest, if he were selling sculpts of them without at least asking my permission, sure, I'd be peeved. So I am fine with asking permission for this before proceeding.

But am I really the Copyright AntiChrist if I just want to make myself six cards to go with the two sets of everything (three of the Air Pack) I buy for Memoir '44?

Confused


What kind of British and Italian cards are you making? sounds intressting Smile

cheers
M
      
ad79
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Re:Is this Okay, or Do I Need Permission? Fri, 11 December 2009 08:52
That would be the nation cards that summarises the rules for the British and french, I would guess. These are included in the Sword of Stalingrad battle map.

British: http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/content/cards_compen dium/?id=british-commonwealth-forces-bcf

Italian: http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/content/cards_compen dium/?id=action_19375377378379
      
Maimed
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Re:Is this Okay, or Do I Need Permission? Fri, 11 December 2009 12:59
ad79 wrote on Fri, 11 December 2009 08:52

That would be the nation cards that summarises the rules for the British and french, I would guess. These are included in the Sword of Stalingrad battle map.

British: http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/content/cards_compen dium/?id=british-commonwealth-forces-bcf

Italian: http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/content/cards_compen dium/?id=action_19375377378379


thank you AD79,

but the Italians weren't the best troops in WWII and this is more of an extra advantage than a disadvantage.. a disadvantave by italiens would be , retreat 2 space per flag and roll for panic on each space with Italian troops fleeing ( being removed ) on a grenade. unless they are regular or eleite troops

Cheers
M
      
tank commander
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Re:Is this Okay, or Do I Need Permission? Fri, 11 December 2009 13:17
Maimed wrote on Fri, 11 December 2009 06:59

ad79 wrote on Fri, 11 December 2009 08:52

That would be the nation cards that summarises the rules for the British and french, I would guess. These are included in the Sword of Stalingrad battle map.

British: http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/content/cards_compen dium/?id=british-commonwealth-forces-bcf

Italian: http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/content/cards_compen dium/?id=action_19375377378379


thank you AD79,

but the Italians weren't the best troops in WWII and this is more of an extra advantage than a disadvantage.. a disadvantave by italiens would be , retreat 2 space per flag and roll for panic on each space with Italian troops fleeing ( being removed ) on a grenade. unless they are regular or eleite troops

Cheers
M



Now how does that saying go? I would rather have an army of rabbits led by a lion than an army of lions led by a rabbit.

The upper Italian leadership was just dismal (along with their strategic thinking). Throw in substandard equipment and you have a recipe for disaster in any army.

With better training, a decent tank design and planning I am sure that the Italian Army could have performed much better than it did during WW II.

If you look back to it's performance in the latter stages of WW I(early on in this conflict, it suffered from some of the same malaise as it did in WW II), you will see what I mean.

[Updated on: Fri, 11 December 2009 13:17]

      
Maimed
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Re:Is this Okay, or Do I Need Permission? Fri, 11 December 2009 17:51
tank commander wrote on Fri, 11 December 2009 13:17

Maimed wrote on Fri, 11 December 2009 06:59

ad79 wrote on Fri, 11 December 2009 08:52

That would be the nation cards that summarises the rules for the British and french, I would guess. These are included in the Sword of Stalingrad battle map.

British: http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/content/cards_compen dium/?id=british-commonwealth-forces-bcf

Italian: http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/content/cards_compen dium/?id=action_19375377378379


thank you AD79,

but the Italians weren't the best troops in WWII and this is more of an extra advantage than a disadvantage.. a disadvantave by italiens would be , retreat 2 space per flag and roll for panic on each space with Italian troops fleeing ( being removed ) on a grenade. unless they are regular or eleite troops

Cheers
M



Now how does that saying go? I would rather have an army of rabbits led by a lion than an army of lions led by a rabbit.

The upper Italian leadership was just dismal (along with their strategic thinking). Throw in substandard equipment and you have a recipe for disaster in any army.

With better training, a decent tank design and planning I am sure that the Italian Army could have performed much better than it did during WW II.

If you look back to it's performance in the latter stages of WW I(early on in this conflict, it suffered from some of the same malaise as it did in WW II), you will see what I mean.



Agree Tank Commander. Gen Feld marschal Rommel always spoke well of the courage of the Italian troops under his command, publicly AND privately. yes it was the poor equepment and the poor leadership. Gen Feld Marschal couldnt change the equepent but he did a lot for the command structure,,, and the ropps did very well in Africa under him,, on other fronts,, they did not do well,, so I rules fro normal units not under Rommel should show this, I feel

Cheers
M
      
Dasher
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Re:Is this Okay, or Do I Need Permission? Sat, 12 December 2009 18:58
Maimed, I was just going to make repros of the cards from the Card Compendium, but I received my "Sword of Stalingrad" order with the production-quality cards, so the issue was resolved for me.

[Updated on: Sat, 12 December 2009 18:58]

      
Dasher
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Re:Is this Okay, or Do I Need Permission? Sat, 12 December 2009 19:10
I remember working on an Italian Army expansion for a card game years ago; I had developed the Italians from wartime reports, most of which were translated for me from Italian and German sources, rather than relying on the English language British assessments.
It turned out a couple other people had submitted Italian expansion designs for this game as well, each with very different conceptions on how effective Italian troops should be and how they should be modelled. One was extremely overpowered, and I never saw anyone lose a game playing the Italians when using it.
Mine was in the middle, but the third design "allowed" the Italians to retreat freely, a concept the author thought was amusing, if not hilarious, and which pretty much summed up his contempt for the Italian Army's combat abilities.
I remember playtesting his version, using his design to pull my Italian center back, and back, and back, reeling from his pursuing British center's assault. Then I opened up on him with my two still-forward Italian flanking units and blasted him to shreds. For some reason he didn't thank that was very funny... I was "abusing the intent of the rule". <shrug> Smile
Now, flanking is not as important in M'44 as it was in this older, now OOP game system, but I still have to say the "three flags retreat" option is a bit insulting, but I hope to find creative ways to use it to the Italian's advantage.
And no, I'm not Italian. I just think historical scholars - and re-creators - have a certain obligation to the truth. Smile
      
Maimed
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Re:Is this Okay, or Do I Need Permission? Sat, 12 December 2009 22:56
Darion Leonidas wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 19:10

I remember working on an Italian Army expansion for a card game years ago; I had developed the Italians from wartime reports, most of which were translated for me from Italian and German sources, rather than relying on the English language British assessments.
It turned out a couple other people had submitted Italian expansion designs for this game as well, each with very different conceptions on how effective Italian troops should be and how they should be modelled. One was extremely overpowered, and I never saw anyone lose a game playing the Italians when using it.
Mine was in the middle, but the third design "allowed" the Italians to retreat freely, a concept the author thought was amusing, if not hilarious, and which pretty much summed up his contempt for the Italian Army's combat abilities.
I remember playtesting his version, using his design to pull my Italian center back, and back, and back, reeling from his pursuing British center's assault. Then I opened up on him with my two still-forward Italian flanking units and blasted him to shreds. For some reason he didn't thank that was very funny... I was "abusing the intent of the rule". <shrug> Smile
Now, flanking is not as important in M'44 as it was in this older, now OOP game system, but I still have to say the "three flags retreat" option is a bit insulting, but I hope to find creative ways to use it to the Italian's advantage.
And no, I'm not Italian. I just think historical scholars - and re-creators - have a certain obligation to the truth. Smile


Hi Darion Leonidas
rigth mate. by and large Italian, Rumanian, Bulgarian , etc troops were inferior in training and weapons. The Poor Rumanians got French left over and later German leftovers and the officers, were "well born". totaly very bad for moral and training and leadership. Well trained and lead German ; Italian, etc troops should more or less be the same, but second rate troops, lots of the German troops in the west were really second rate troops, so were quite good, but very many very really second rate troops or troops recovering from a bad beating on the east front etc. well lead amd motivated even second rate troops can be effective, but when things get tough they should be less effective. the rules but me in line with standard M'44 rules and simple, and reflect the abilites of the troops. the Marine units on the pacific get 1 extra unit per command card, flanking attack with (2)--- (2) is raised to (3) --- (3) ( unless I have it wrong in my memory) these aer tur elite formations... similar to the Waffenn SS I would think,, sooo why dont the Waffen SS , and other elite units get to use this tule?
This is really a huge ability. Units that are very poorly lead or that have very bad communication could perhaps use the Commisar rule. for reluctant troops, perhaps only let them move 1 area TOWARDS visable an enemy unit, troops with dreadful moral, ready to surrender,, perhaps the retrat TWO hexes per flay and roll for each retrated hex , and with a grenade, remove one stand,,, showing units surrendering, fleeing the battle field etc..something along those lines.. those were just ideas of the top of my head.. and they stay within the M'44 rule system
what do you think mate`?

Cheers
M
      
    
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