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Wildfire2099
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World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Mon, 14 December 2009 04:06
As before, people should open up a thread for each division to report results, schedule times, and whatnot. You may start right away, but I am building in time to take into considering not being available for the holidays, so no worries if that's the case for you.

I don't intend to do a 'suggested schedule', since it seems to work better with people doing their own thing. For those that are new, you play 1 seven game 'series' against each player in your division. the timing is such that you should play about 1 match a week, but that's up to you.. you can play them all tomorrow if you like... though I might recommend waiting a couple days, to make sure I didn't mess anything up Very Happy


If anyone has any questions, concerns (i.e I left you off, you think you're in the wrong place, etc) let me know via PM.

Without further ado:


Tycoon Division (A)
RMarkes
goscha
Rufuz
Hecki
Schwen
Deveric (Season 1 Champ)
deep_blue
Daedin (Season 2 + 3 Champ)

Engineer Division (B)
drake
foudecoasters
toutoune
dea1
stemayf
Elric
xbomanx
WostWuist

Conductor Division (C)
Requiem FAD
maia03
sauvignon57
suburu
acemandope
Chrismmm
Muddha
Angel6

Brakemen Division (D)
Gyuri
Marschall Vorwärts
U 31
Val
Olle Boll
Onyx Puffin
Der Neusser
Pammes

Coal Shovelers Division, Front (E1)
BarneyG
Doc-Pignolo
JTrea93
Lucullupus
Qorlas
U32
Womble

Coal Shovelers Division, Caboose (E2)
Dizz
Genuinefauxfarm
Lcremita
mennonite827
Patterson
solinsf
wasser
Sysyphus

Hobo Division, East (F1)
Yaelka
Cat_
Jenack
Kunibert
Portos9705
Snowstar
Teddy1

Hobo Division, Central (F2)
Arendalsbanen
Gralsritter
Jmulcai
Manni
Ravage8111
TKcool

Hobo Division, West (F3)
BonkersandNuts
HIT - Cani
Karin1961
Nicole20918
Robin Hood
Technikerin
Xennos

[Updated on: Mon, 14 December 2009 19:59]

      
Wildfire2099
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Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Mon, 14 December 2009 20:02
Two updates (Thanks Foude!)

Pammes was mistakenly demoted and extra division, so has been moved to 'D'

Sysyphus was demoted from 'E' to 'F' based on season 1's performance.. which is contrary to our rule of being considered a new player if you've missed 2 seasons (that rule was apply correctly to other returning players, but not Sysy somehow). He therefore as a 'new' player by rating should be in 'E', rather than 'F'.

Let me know if y'all see anything else.

      
Graf Zahl
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Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Mon, 14 December 2009 21:18
Wow wildfire,

that seems to be an awesome rule. If you continue to play in the League you get demoted to a lower division if your performance in your current division leads to this. If you miss 1 season you get demoted accordingly. But if you miss 2 seasons you will get moved to a division that reflects your ranking in ELO points if this is possible...which leads to a factual promotion in some cases obviously as the demotion that would have taken place 2 seasons earlier will have no effect at all.

This rule is nothing but ridiculous and lacks ANY rationality. It is a privilege for well-ranked players who performed badly in the League before and did not continue to play in it for 2 seasons (because of this bad performance or other reasons). Their absence from the League leads to a factual promotion while players who continue to play in the League get demoted... Amazing!

Greetings

Dennis

[Updated on: Mon, 14 December 2009 21:21]

      
barneyg
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Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Mon, 14 December 2009 22:07
That 'problem' could be one if there were several vacated spots in the top divisions, which isn't the case now it seems. Returning players from season 1, who weren't there in seasons 2 and 3:

Mudda -- s 1, div. B, finished 4th -- season 4, placed in div. C
Patterson -- s 1 B 7th -- s 4, placed in E2
Sysyphus -- s 1 E 6th -- s 4, placed in E2
Gralsritter -- s 1 E 8th (excluded) -- s 4, placed in F2

So no season 1 returning player is starting in a higher division than the one he left. Patterson is even starting in division E when that would be C if his 7th place in div. B had been realized in season 2 instead of season 1 (or if the season 1 result was kept). Same for Mudda who'd have been in B had the season 1 result been used.

Edit: wording.

[Updated on: Mon, 14 December 2009 22:08]

      
foudecoasters - Cerdon
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Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Mon, 14 December 2009 22:22
barney ,

the only error is the 2 levels between mudda and patterson (only one is the good choice for me )

for sysyphus, if he start like a newbie, with his ranking, he must play in a better division than doc, jtrea, solinsf, and you... are you agree ? ( or the same division ! like in the wildfire program ). If sysy comeback in F, you must play in F too !

for gralsritter, en francais : "c'est une blague???? tu va pas defendre ce mec quand meme barney ???? " Division F is really so good for him ! For me his player never change, of course all competition is forbiden for him !

THX wildfire for the good job this season again !

Good luck for all ( not dennis of course ) and sorry for truckteller , really !

cue

foude

      
foudecoasters - Cerdon
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Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Mon, 14 December 2009 22:25
Graf Zahl écrit le Mon, 14 December 2009 21:18

Wow wildfire,

that seems to be an awesome rule. If you continue to play in the League you get demoted to a lower division if your performance in your current division leads to this. If you miss 1 season you get demoted accordingly. But if you miss 2 seasons you will get moved to a division that reflects your ranking in ELO points if this is possible...which leads to a factual promotion in some cases obviously as the demotion that would have taken place 2 seasons earlier will have no effect at all.

This rule is nothing but ridiculous and lacks ANY rationality. It is a privilege for well-ranked players who performed badly in the League before and did not continue to play in it for 2 seasons (because of this bad performance or other reasons). Their absence from the League leads to a factual promotion while players who continue to play in the League get demoted... Amazing!

Greetings

Dennis


please SHUT UP DENNIS

WHY DENNIS IS HERE ??????

[Updated on: Mon, 14 December 2009 22:27]

      
barneyg
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Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Mon, 14 December 2009 22:41
foudecoasters écrit le Mon, 14 December 2009 16:22


the only error is the 2 levels between mudda and patterson (only one is the good choice for me )

for sysyphus, if he start like a newbie, with his ranking, he must play in a better division than doc, jtrea, solinsf, and you... are you agree ? ( or the same division ! like in the wildfire program ). If sysy comeback in F, you must play in F too !

for gralsritter, en francais : "c'est une blague???? tu va pas defendre ce mec quand meme barney ???? " Division F is really so good for him ! For me his player never change, of course all competition is forbiden for him !


I'm not defending or attacking anyone -- I think this rule *could* have some unintended consequences, such as someone dropping down to F through relegation, skipping 2 seasons, then coming back in division B or C. However, all I did was point out that it did *NOT* happen with those coming back after a 2-season pause because they all came back ranked the same or lower than they would have had they not done so. As far as I'm concerned, I'd be very surprised to see those unintended consequences happening anyway.

I definitely agree for Sysy -- in fact the only 2 reasons I got interested in the promotion/relegation rules (and therefore posted here) are (1) Patterson is on the same level as I am, and (2) Sysy started at a lower level than I did. Those 2 things didn't make sense until I figured out why (for Patterson anyway).
      
Colo
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Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Mon, 14 December 2009 22:51
my 4 cents:

patterson too low
mudda too high
dennis too present

thanks to wildfire
      
foudecoasters - Cerdon
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Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Mon, 14 December 2009 23:17
barneyg écrit le Mon, 14 December 2009 22:41



I definitely agree for Sysy -- in fact the only 2 reasons I got interested in the promotion/relegation rules (and therefore posted here) are (1) Patterson is on the same level as I am, and (2) Sysy started at a lower level than I did. Those 2 things didn't make sense until I figured out why (for Patterson anyway).


are you lucky barney ??? you don't play patterson and sysy !!! ( but womble lol ! Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing )


for all, the table of season 4, with nationality of players (for help you in Champions league Very Happy ) :



Very Happy

[Updated on: Mon, 14 December 2009 23:28]

      
Qorlas
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Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Mon, 14 December 2009 23:31
In champions league I could really join any team... love it Razz
      
RFAD - Saint-Emilion
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Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Mon, 14 December 2009 23:51
mortel Very Happy
      
SMP-JenAck
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Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Mon, 14 December 2009 23:57
foudecoasters schrieb am Mon, 14 December 2009 23:17

barneyg écrit le Mon, 14 December 2009 22:41



I definitely agree for Sysy -- in fact the only 2 reasons I got interested in the promotion/relegation rules (and therefore posted here) are (1) Patterson is on the same level as I am, and (2) Sysy started at a lower level than I did. Those 2 things didn't make sense until I figured out why (for Patterson anyway).


are you lucky barney ??? you don't play patterson and sysy !!! ( but womble lol ! Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing )


for all, the table of season 4, with nationality of players (for help you in Champions league Very Happy ) :



Very Happy


wow foude
where are the results?we have to play no more

Cool Laughing
      
Teddy1
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Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Tue, 15 December 2009 00:03
Hallo zusammen.

Jetzt muss ich hier mal meinen Senf dazu tun.

Ersten ist es mir eigentlich gleich gegen wen ich in der Liga spiele. Aber zweitens verstehe ich diese ganze Ansetzung und Aufstellung der einzelnen Gruppen nicht. Wie kann es sein das neue Spieler (und witzigerweise nicht alle) in den oberen Gruppen spielen während Spieler die 2 oder 3 Saisons gespielt haben sich in den unteren Gruppen wiederfinden.

Also meiner Meinung nach müssten alle neuen Spieler in den unteren Gruppen beginnen und sich dann nach oben durchspielen. Ich kann auch nicht einen Fussballverein gründen und sofort in der Topliga spielen.
Ich denke das dieses jemand ins Englische übersetzen wird.

mfg
Teddy1
      
AGT-DN
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Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Tue, 15 December 2009 00:04
Grizzly going second-last???? Beware the bear's revenge, Jen....
      
Qorlas
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Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Tue, 15 December 2009 00:26
Nice results yep Very Happy
      
UEG Mudda
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Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Tue, 15 December 2009 00:57
Colo schrieb am Mon, 14 December 2009 22:51

mudda too high

Wohl mit dem Hammer gekämmt, was?
      
AAA_dea1
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T2R Nation Cup 2007 Winner

Posts: 1955
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Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Tue, 15 December 2009 01:19
Naja, Mudda - bei aller Liebe ... in der Saison aussteigen sollte schon mehr kosten, als einfach nicht teilnehmen.
Das kostet ja immerhin jemand anderen den Platz, und ist für die Gruppe äußerst unerfreulich.
Also kämm dir den Hammer oder was auch immer bitte mal selbst.

-------

English version:
I think it's worse to quit mid- (or beginning of -) season than not participating, because it denies somebody else his spot and is really awkward towards the rest of the group.
Therefore - irrespective of playing skills - I agree: Mudda too high
      
barneyg
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Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Tue, 15 December 2009 01:25
foudecoasters écrit le Mon, 14 December 2009 17:17


are you lucky barney ??? you don't play patterson and sysy !!! ( but womble lol ! Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing )


Ouais, très chanceux à première vue Smile

Cool graph, btw! Wink
      
Colo
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Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Tue, 15 December 2009 02:26
Mudda,

you quit division B very early during season 2, with no strong reason (if I recall it right it was something like "I wont play ttr for a while").

In my opinion that should have resulted in you playing Div C in season 3 (as if you ended last in B, which you did) or even only Div D as a penalty for quitting or even not allowing you to enter season 3 without a good commitment to not quit again early.

You did pause in season 3. That should not be treated better than playing and eventually playing with little success. Even taken that you were allowed to play in C in season 3 that should result in a max position in Division D in season 4.

You and everyone is responsible for his actions and must accept the consequences. Dennis should (muted is muted for a reason, the player is ment to be muted, not the account), Mudda should (quitting is quitting and is not appreciated), I do (I would have faced relegation to C if I signed season 4, I expect nothing better than D in case I should sign a future season 5). These are just my thoughts, and I would think the same for everyone, even for the former team captain of my NC team 2008. Nothing personal.

While I understand Wildfire's aim to have groups of more or less similar playing strength, I disagree here and there when it comes to placing new entries and when it comes to handling penalties for quitting and the like. Btw, I also disagree with the two step promotion from C to A. Of course we can agree to disagree.

0.01
Colo
      
Wildfire2099
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Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Tue, 15 December 2009 03:56
A couple comments:

regarding people leaving, then coming back: I think Sysy's situation is rather unique... I don't think it would happen often. I agree it's a little odd, but in the previous seasons LOTS of people complained I was making too many 'arbitary' decisions, so I tried very hard to make things more in line with definable rules. In this particular case, I think it's also appropriate, since Sysy's rating is pretty high compared to most of the players in F.

Muddha posed a unique problem, and I dealt with it as made the most sense. My original plan was to have him in 'D' with Angel starting in C, but, again, there has been much commentary about people starting too high, so I changed my mind. If y'all are gonna go the other way on me, I'm not sure what to tell you.


Edit: after re-reading Colo's post, I see he was looking for a penalty of sorts, since Muddha quit out of a season. While I agree it's really annoying, the 'punishment' I envision is if it happens again, you don't play any more. I feel like relegation punishes the players in that lower division more than anything.
While Colo is a very smart guy, and a wiki wizard, we do disagree alot, and that's OK. Very Happy




Patterson(or someone, not sure if he was the highest rated new person in E or not) would have started higher if there was a spot, but there wasn't, so he didn't.

As for Dennis: people who are only in the league at all because I'm a VERY nice guy should play quietly and keep their mouths shut.


As Colo said, the main idea is for everyone to have a whole bunch of very good games against players of similar skill.. Last season this worked out REALLY well, as you'll see if you look at the standings... hopefully it will again.

and, most importantly, AWESOME table, Foude!

[Updated on: Tue, 15 December 2009 04:00]

      
SMP-JenAck
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Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Tue, 15 December 2009 08:56
I do not agree with all statements and attitudes...
but let us now stop to discuss and start with playing Smile
i wish all much fun and good and exciting games

greetings JenAck
      
AAA_Lucullupus
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  Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Tue, 15 December 2009 09:57
Wer hat mir meinen Pammes geklaut?
Who has stolen my clergyman? Mad Mad Mad
      
Gyuri
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Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Tue, 15 December 2009 10:21
IIIIIIIICH HAB IHN! Smile Smile Smile

IIIIIIIIIve got him!!!! Smile Smile Smile

[Updated on: Tue, 15 December 2009 10:23]

      
UEG Mudda
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Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Tue, 15 December 2009 11:32
Wildfire - please replace me for somebody else, I cant stand the pressure any more Confused : too many cages have been jiggled, too many wannabe-guardians around! Rolling Eyes
      
AAA_Lucullupus
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  Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Tue, 15 December 2009 14:22
don't give up, mudda Smile
      
Graf Zahl
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Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Tue, 15 December 2009 16:39
Translation of Teddy 's post into English:

Hi all,

my 2 cents concerning the situation...

First, I don't really care against whom I play in the League. But I cannot unerstand the reasoning behind the composition of the different groups. How can it be that new players play in the higher groups while people who played in seasons 2 and 3 have to play in the lower groups (again)?

Accoring to my opinion all new players should begin in one of the lower groups and should have to earn their promotion to higher groups by winning in their respective group. I just cannot found a new football-club and start playing in the national Top League straight away.

Kind regards

Teddy



Teddy for President!

Greetings

Dennis
      
Wildfire2099
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Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Tue, 15 December 2009 19:41
I've answered Teddy's question on a number of occasions, but I'll do so again for his benefit.

It would make NO SENSE at all for, say, Angel, who has been #1 overall and is a very, very good player, to spend his 6 weeks in the league beating Teddy and Dennis and everyone else in F 7-0 (or maybe 6-1 if they get lucky) That's not fun for anyone involved. and would discourage new players, especially those who might not be 'regulars' to the board.

That being said, the idea of a progressive league like this is to win and work your way up.. hence the system we have currently, where the very best new players occassionally fill in spots left by people who didn't sign up.

The vast majority of the new players (all but Angel, IIRC, since Truckteller changed his mind about playing) are in either E or F, based on their ELO. The cut off was around 1520 or so. Players from previous seasons were put in the division they belong in. You don't get promoted just for playing, you have to win some. I don't feel that's unreasonable. The very best way to show me you're in too low a division is to win, they you'll be promoted Very Happy

      
Teddy1
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Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Tue, 15 December 2009 22:30
OK no problem , i understand it.

Then i will win the Hobo Division, East (F1) Very Happy

Have fun all in the games

greetings

Teddy

      
Wildfire2099
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Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Wed, 16 December 2009 13:43
Lol.. Love the confidence, Teddy Very Happy. Good luck to you, and everyone else in season 4!

      
AAA_Pammes
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December 2004
Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Wed, 16 December 2009 14:37
Lupo,

dont worry
i was noit stolen by gyuri
fact is i played too awful to be the same skill as u are
lets hope i find myself in the next league not again a divison lower or even two..
but at least i play in the same group as winne...
we started together, departet far away and play again together ggg

hope we all have fun
Pammes
      
Ironhorse2
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Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Fri, 18 December 2009 20:53
Hi all,
i want to put my pennyworth in.
Dennis good points but delivery needs a little sweetning and less flamable.
Foude great graph love it.
I want to say i love being in the bottom league its always fun, i'm pretty useless anyway and whoever i play its a challenge.
Angel you are lucky you don't come up against me He he. It would be too one sided and i would feel charitable and want to let you win 1 game.
Happy Christmas to all,

Phil Rolling Eyes

Keep on rocking
      
ATN Drake
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Re:World TTR League Season 4 Divisions Sat, 19 December 2009 07:59
Just to add my opinion.

I think the fun of the league is moving up the ladder and trying to stay there. As such I think it really ruins the fun of the league if people start in too high of a group. Also I think you should only move up 1 group at a time, no jumping up 2.

I do understand the problem of a high ranked player completely destroying the competition if placed in a low group, but low ranked players might actually like this. There are so many high ranked players that would never ever play someone 1600 or lower or 1500 or lower. This gives the lower ranked players a chance to play these elusive "tops". Maybe to make up for it there needs to be more movement in the lower groups so not just the winner (i.e. the high ranked player) moves up in a group.
      
    
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