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stemayf
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Champions League - Voting Thread Thu, 07 January 2010 21:14
Hi All,

You know what? I really, really hoped we'd never have to use a thread like this during the tournament. And yet, here it is before we've even started. How foolish I am...

So, we've 15 registered teams: the 14 from Phase 1, and 'The Underdogs' from Phase 2. Superb.

But you know I've always been pushing for a 16th, haven't I? And here's the gist of this vote.

The TinMan (US) and I have been swapping ever since he applied to take part in the tournament slightly too late. Nevertheless, he's compiled a team and is requesting registration:

The TinMan - US - 3066
Ravage811 - US - 3034
Peter-Australia - AUS - 2905
yaelka - DEU - 3517

Now, this team has 2 US players, which is OK by the rules for Phase 3 of the registration process. But there are 2 rules being broken here.

1). The TinMan applied to play after the registration deadline. I did write about this a few days ago, and no Captain contacted me expressing their concern about this.

but 2). The fourth player, yaelka, did not register to play. And it just so happens he is the highest ranked player in the team, and outranks many other players in other teams.

CAPTAINS ONLY TO VOTE PLEASE!

So here's the vote:

a - allow registration of this team of all 4 players, including yaelka
b - allow registration of the team of 3 players, not including yaelka
c - do not allow registration at all

I will not pander to any other suggestions - "Hey, Steven, what about 'd' - allow more time for the team to blah blah blah...". NO. We're past all the deadlines, and I am not going to risk the credibility of the tournament or myself dragging this out (like I do with my posts Wink).

Captains of the 15 registered teams, please vote a, b or c, either by posting here, or by private PM to me. I will keep PMed votes anonymous. I will publish the results here and present my (TD) decision based on the vote here tomorrow.

You have 24 hours. I will post the result here.


The TinMan et al - cross your fingers.

Steven

[Updated on: Thu, 07 January 2010 21:45]

      
Sysyphus - Pommard
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Thu, 07 January 2010 21:16
A - More Fun and good to see new faces Smile
      
dea1
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Thu, 07 January 2010 21:32
A - enjoy the tournament
      
Truckerteller
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Thu, 07 January 2010 21:32
We like yealka, GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !

Actually, the rest of my team hates him, but I'm in charge, muhahaha.
      
mennonite436
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Thu, 07 January 2010 21:38
A- I would really like to see 16 teams, i think it would make it much more fun!
      
Robin Hood
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Thu, 07 January 2010 21:57
Hi Fans Very Happy
A. 16 teams pls Smile
Lets have a PROPER champions League Very Happy
(can we have the easy route to the final like Man Utd Rolling Eyes )
Robin

[Updated on: Thu, 07 January 2010 21:57]

      
stemayf
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Thu, 07 January 2010 22:03
Three more votes for A, and the vote is carried, being that 8 votes makes a majority verdict.
      
Lucullupus
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Thu, 07 January 2010 22:38
A - you're welcome Cool
      
xbomanx
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Thu, 07 January 2010 22:44
Hi all, here are the vote for G70!

Rolling Eyes AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Rolling Eyes

I wish all Teams a nice Champions League !

Many greets
Very Happy
xbomanx
      
stemayf
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Thu, 07 January 2010 22:49
One more 'a' ...
      
Toady
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Thu, 07 January 2010 23:17
A
      
stemayf
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Thu, 07 January 2010 23:23
Done - Vote closed.

Thanks, Captains. The rest of you, I hope your OK with the unassailable majority verdict:

a - allow registration of this team of all 4 players, including yaelka

Congratulations, The Tinman et al. I wish you, and the other 15 teams the best of luck. Smile

I have updated the rules for exactly 16 participating teams, if you'd care to look: http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?th=18620

Steven

PS. Of course, those Captains who did not have the opportunity to vote (it was very quick!) are welcome to add their opinion to the mix.

[Updated on: Thu, 07 January 2010 23:30]

      
Qorlas
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Fri, 08 January 2010 14:32
A for me too.
      
TIC wasdenn
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Fri, 08 January 2010 21:06
still within the 24 hours Smile


A - welcome
      
yaelka
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Sat, 30 January 2010 17:30
late .... but ...

just want to say THANK YOU for voting A and so letting me participate in CL in The Tinman's Team.

I knew quite late about this voting and was quite astonished, when some of you welcomed me to CL and I didn't even know about it... lol. Anyway I enjoy it ... So

Thank you all!

o, Truckerteller, hope you didn't get in trouble with your team, when voting against their will ha ha ha ha ha ha
      
stemayf
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread - NEW VOTE Feb 3 2010 Wed, 03 February 2010 10:57
NEW VOTE - DRAW FOR THE QUARTER FINALS

These are the QF rules as they stand:

Quote:

10. Quarter-final stage

10.1 The Quarter-final stage will comprise 8 teams, either through the league stage, play-off round, or a mixture of both.

10.2 The Quarter-final stage will return to be 3-player clashes as before, not the single player matches as used in the pre-Quarter-final Play-off round.

10.3 The 8 teams will be seeded 1 to 8.

10.4 If there was no Play-off round necessary, the seeding will be: 1 to 4 for the league winners (1 for highest ranked, 4 for the lowest), and 5 to 8 for the league runners-up (5 for highest ranked runner-up, 8 for the lowest).

10.5 If there was a Play-off round with 4 automatic qualifiers and 8 teams in the play-off, the 4 automatic qualifiers will be seeded 1 to 4 (1 for highest ranked, 4 for the lowest), and 5 to 8 for the winning play-off teams (5 for the highest ranked team at the end of the League stage, 8 for the lowest).

10.6 If there was a Play-off round with 16 teams, the seeding will be: 1 to 8 for all winning play-off teams based on ranking for each team at the end of the League stage, regardless of League position. Tie-breakers for seeding again will be used as outlined above.

10.7 The fixtures for the Quarter-final stage will be preordained. They will be: 1 vs 8, 2 vs 7, 3 vs 6 and 4 vs 5.


I am proposing a vote to reconsider the rule 10.7 regarding preordained lineups. I won't go into my reasons here, suffice to say that perhaps I did not consider all viewpoints when I wrote the rules.

Captain's only to vote, please.

Choices:

A - Leave the rules as they are
B - Leave the rules as much as possible, but adapt to prevent any team from playing another team from the same league (i.e. No Yellow vs. Yellow)
Ci - Impose NC ruling whereby highest ranked League winner picks from the second place teams (not from own league*), then next highest ranked winner picks from remaining 3 second placed teams, and so on
Cii - Impose NC ruling whereby highest ranked League winner picks from the second place teams (can be from own league if they so choose), then next highest ranked winner picks from remaining 3 second placed teams, and so on
D - A new totally random draw, akin to the league draw: 2 pots - league winners vs league second placers, but with the same caveat that no team can draw another team from its own league


* - the problem being the system may leave the 4th highest ranked team being forced to play against the second placed team from its own league

Majority verdict will be sustained. Votes in by next Wednesday, 10th February, please.

[Updated on: Thu, 04 February 2010 07:32]

      
Qorlas
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Wed, 03 February 2010 12:24
Definitely D.

Off course, the draw would be one of 1st placed against one of 2nd placed?

I would suggest to make the draw good also for next rounds:

you could create a bracket:

1st 1st placed extracted
1st 2nd placed extracted

2nd 1st placed extracted
2nd 2nd placed extracted

and so on...


Last thing: the draw, do it as the group draw... open a game and use the colors of the groups. For instance if the 1st good card is purple, then the 1st placed in purple group will be the 1st 1st placed extracted.

Q.

[Updated on: Wed, 03 February 2010 12:27]

      
dea1
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Wed, 03 February 2010 13:09
Ci - with the following assumptions/add-ons:

Highest Ranked is replaced with / clarified as:
The group winner with the best score in RR (not ELO at any point in time)

Proceeding:
1) Best group winner picks any of the 3 2nd placed teams not from his group
2) Second best group winner picks any of the 2 or 3 remaining 2nd placed teams not from his group
3) If the 3rd best group winner still has a choice that allows for all resulting pairings to be from different groups (i.e. remaining winners are from groups 1&2, remaining 2nds from groups 3&4) he may choose - otherwise the 2 remaining pairings are assigned to that nobody meets an opponent of his group

Pairings for SF: Set up the bracket so that best group winner of RR plays 4th group winner (assuming the winners win the QF)

----------

My reasons:
a) Playing an opponent you already played shall be avoided
b) The results of RR shall have significance
c) There shall be no possibility that finishing 2nd in your group could be better than finishing 1st
d) The Finals shall feature the best teams of the event (real strength not ELO) - avoid "premature finals" in QF or SF

Version A violates all of them (eg if there are no upsets in other groups QUAD would play F4 again in QF regardless of who finishes 1st and 2nd in RR)

Version B violates b), c) and d)

Ci is good provided that highest ranked = group winner with best score

Cii violates a)

D may violate d)

--------

TD: Please clarify whether my assumptions/add-ons to Ci would apply in case we vote for that.
(if they don't I change my vote to D)

[Updated on: Wed, 03 February 2010 13:10]

      
TIC wasdenn
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Wed, 03 February 2010 13:59
I concur with Dea's reasoning.

therefore my vote also is

Ci

...with the assumption that RR results define ranks, but maybe I am biased after 3 HOT wins in RR so far Wink
      
toutoune - Morgon
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Wed, 03 February 2010 14:58
Model is the soccer champions league, isn't it?

So: D

with same recommendations as Qorlas.
      
Sysyphus - Pommard
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Wed, 03 February 2010 15:35
Joining the Latin connection :

D
      
onyx puffin
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Wed, 03 February 2010 15:53
IN speaking with LOL Vice, (Mr. Bean) we favor Ci, much for the reasoning listed by dea.

But I wonder about slotting colors or re-ordering the colors based on the top 4, then the corresponding color groups get matched out so that we would not get purple1 playing yellow2, and yellow1 playing purple2. which would make Red1 v orange 2, and orange1 v red2. If it ends up that way, then you almost have a 2 league format and the chance for a group 1-2 to meet before the finals. I think a yellow-yellow, red-red, etc. possibility should be avoided until final.

Does either system (C1 or D) give us that qualifier?
And if D gets the votes, what about the Qorlas qualifier about the random draw? He said he assumed the draw was 1s versus 2s but it does not say that in proposal.


[Updated on: Wed, 03 February 2010 15:55]

      
Lucullupus
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  Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Thu, 04 February 2010 04:00
D

promises more fun and suspense Cool
      
stemayf
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Thu, 04 February 2010 07:33
LOL onyx puffin wrote on Wed, 03 February 2010 14:53

...assumed the draw was 1s versus 2s but it does not say that in proposal.


Winners vs. 2nd placers
      
xbomanx
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Thu, 04 February 2010 18:39
Here are the vote for Team G70

D

Have fun all
Very Happy
xbomanx
      
Truckerteller
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Thu, 04 February 2010 18:42
D sounds fine to me
      
Robin Hood
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Cadet

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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Thu, 04 February 2010 18:43
D Very Happy
      
mennonite436
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Mon, 08 February 2010 04:25
TU has decided to join the "D" side Very Happy
      
stemayf
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Thu, 11 February 2010 00:45
Currently:

8 votes for D
3 votes for Ci

One more vote for D and it's sustained.

Anybody else? You have just a few hours (i.e. between now and tomorrow morning, GMT).
      
stemayf
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Fri, 12 February 2010 11:42
G70 stemayf wrote on Wed, 10 February 2010 23:45

Currently:

8 votes for D
3 votes for Ci

One more vote for D and it's sustained.

Anybody else? You have just a few hours (i.e. between now and tomorrow morning, GMT).

Ok folks, we'll go with D.
      
onyx puffin
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread - NEW VOTE Feb 3 2010 Sat, 13 February 2010 16:27
G70 stemayf wrote on Wed, 03 February 2010 04:57

NEW VOTE - DRAW FOR THE QUARTER FINALS

These are the QF rules as they stand:

Quote:

10. Quarter-final stage

10.1 The Quarter-final stage will comprise 8 teams, either through the league stage, play-off round, or a mixture of both.

10.2 The Quarter-final stage will return to be 3-player clashes as before, not the single player matches as used in the pre-Quarter-final Play-off round.

10.3 The 8 teams will be seeded 1 to 8.

10.4 If there was no Play-off round necessary, the seeding will be: 1 to 4 for the league winners (1 for highest ranked, 4 for the lowest), and 5 to 8 for the league runners-up (5 for highest ranked runner-up, 8 for the lowest).

10.5 If there was a Play-off round with 4 automatic qualifiers and 8 teams in the play-off, the 4 automatic qualifiers will be seeded 1 to 4 (1 for highest ranked, 4 for the lowest), and 5 to 8 for the winning play-off teams (5 for the highest ranked team at the end of the League stage, 8 for the lowest).

10.6 If there was a Play-off round with 16 teams, the seeding will be: 1 to 8 for all winning play-off teams based on ranking for each team at the end of the League stage, regardless of League position. Tie-breakers for seeding again will be used as outlined above.

10.7 The fixtures for the Quarter-final stage will be preordained. They will be: 1 vs 8, 2 vs 7, 3 vs 6 and 4 vs 5.



D - A new totally random draw, akin to the league draw: 2 pots - league winners vs league second placers, but with the same caveat that no team can draw another team from its own league[/b]



So now that we have the D vote, what does this mean for the next phase? Can you write out the rules now as it applies with the vote decision impact please?
      
stemayf
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Sun, 14 February 2010 15:15
Amended Section 10 in light of the recent vote:

10. Quarter-final stage

10.1 The Quarter-final stage will comprise 8 teams, the 4 league winners and the 4 league runners-up.

10.2 A new random draw will be held to matchup quarter-final opponents. In each case, a league winner will matchup against a league runner-up.

10.3 The 4 league winners will comprise one pot, the 4 runners-up another pot.

10.4 The 4 league winners in Pot 1 will each be assigned a new colour (green, blue, white or black) IN THIS PRE-DEFINED ORDER based on ranking at the end of the league stage. Ranking will be decided upon: clashes won, then matches won, then games won, then games won vs. games lost.

Therefore, the highest ranked league winner = GREEN; the next highest = BLUE; the next highest = WHITE; and the final league winner = BLACK

10.5 The 4 runners-up will be ordered alphabetically. It will be identified at this stage the colour of the QF matchup to which each runner-up cannot be matched being that they contested in the same league.

10.4 The draw, again held live in the lobby, will then use the following procedure:

- The TD will create an open (dummy) 2P US game vs. a random bot, with the game title being that of the first runner-up alphabetically.

- Without selecting destination tickets, and therefore not initiating a game, the TD will allocate the team to its quarter-final pairing based on the colour of the first (top-most) of the 5 coloured face-up train cards on display on 'the table' (not the 4 coloured cards on view to the TD and observers).

- In the event of either: a loco, a colour not being used for the QF draw, a colour not permissable, or a colour representing a quarter-final matchup to which a team has already been allocated, the TD will use the colour of the next (moving top to bottom) coloured train card to allocate a team to its matchup.

- In the event of further unavailable colours/leagues, the TD will allocate using the third coloured train card, and then using the fourth card and finally the fifth.

- If none of the five coloured train cards on 'the table' allow for appropriate allocation of a team to a respective QF matchup, the TD will quit the dummy game and repeat the process until the team is allocated to a matchup.

- This process will continue for all runners-up until each team has been appropriately allocated a permissble QF matchup.

10.5 It may be, that before the conclusion of the live draw, teams are automatically matched due to the restrictions as set out by the rules. In this case, the draw will conclude.

10.6 Quarter-final clashes will continue to be 2-legged: one 'home' match and one 'away' match.

10.7 Quarter-final clashes will takes place within a two clash-week period (16 days, Saturday to 2nd Sunday), although this could be quicker at the discretion of all Captains and the TD.

10.8 Captains will have the opportunity to present lineups for both clashes separately, i.e. the second lineup can be presented to the TD for publication after the conclusion of the first clash.

10.9 Quarter-final matches will be Best of 5 with the same rules as per the League stage, with one exception: ties no longer count. The victor of each match will be the player to reach 3 wins first.

10.10 The lower seeded team will have 'home' advantage in the first leg, the higher seeded team playing at 'home' in the second leg.

10.11 Rules for starting matches are identical to those in the League stage.

10.12 The winning teams will win at least 2 of the 3 matches.


11. Semi-final stage

11.1 The Semi-final stage will comprise 4 teams, the winners of the 4 Quarter-final clashes.

11.2 The fixtures for the Semi-Final stage will be preordained: Winner of the GREEN matchup will play Winner of BLACK; Winner of BLUE will play Winner of WHITE.

11.3 Semi-final clashes will be 2-legged as in the Quarter-final.

11.4 Semi-final clashes will take place within a two clash-week period, as in the Quarter-final.

11.5 Captains will have the opportunity to present lineups for both clashes separately.

11.6 Semi-final matches will be Best of 5 with the same rules as per the Quarter-final (ties do not count).

11.7 Semi-final matches will continue to be Best of 5.

11.8 The lower seeded team will have 'home' advantage in the first leg, the higher seeded team playing at 'home' in the second leg.

11.9 Rules for starting matches are identical to those in the League stage.

11.10 The winning teams will win at least 2 of the 3 matches.
      
stemayf
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Mon, 01 March 2010 11:00
Right, Captains,

I now see why more than one TD would be best. And being a player-TD is not good. I'll admit to struggling somewhat at the relatively easy task of scheduling the rest of the tournament. So, to make my life easier, come and have your say here.

What schedule do you all want for the QF, SF and F?

It seems that whatever I choose, it will be wrong for someone. The original in the rules - wrong. The ticki schedule - wrong. Play time until this date - wrong. That date - wrong.

To be honest, I don't mind what any of you want. I'll go with the majority and we muddle through the rest. Whatever is chosen, there will still be the need to adapt it to suit people. The improtant thing is that no-one, no Captain or team player feels that the schedule stops them from lining up their chosen team, or the Captain feels disadvantaged.

Besides, I'm on holiday when the proposed Final is so... what the hell?

Captains: Post here - don't PM me. I'm happy for one of you to suggest the schedule and others to agree/disagree or make your own point. Let's see what everyone thinks and then make a decision. If we start tonight (I have some lineups already) - fine. If we start midweek - fine. I really don't care. Let's just agree and get on with it.

      
dea1
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Mon, 01 March 2010 12:25
long time ago ...

G70 stemayf schrieb am Wed, 13 January 2010 00:56

Folks,

...

With great help from my friend dea, this is the schedule:
Phase    lineup in   lineup out   to be played until
RR1        Jan 13      Jan 14      Jan 24
RR2        Jan 20      Jan 21      Jan 31
RR3        Jan 27      Jan 28      Feb 07
RR4        Feb 03      Feb 04      Feb 14
RR5        Feb 10      Feb 11      Feb 21
RR6        Feb 17      Feb 18      Feb 28
QF leg1    Mar 01      Mar 01      Mar 08
QF leg2    Mar 08      Mar 08      Mar 15
SF leg1    Mar 16      Mar 16      Mar 23
SF leg2    Mar 23      Mar 23      Mar 30
Final      Mar 31      Apr 01      Apr 05





That's what tiki says ...

... and still my suggestion
      
Sysyphus - Pommard
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Mon, 01 March 2010 12:29
Nothing to complain about from all the BTB's Steven !

You're doing a great job considering how hard is to set a new team-tourney.

About schedule, i'm following all updates either on tiki or in the forum, and i do consider that it's normal to adapt the rules / the schedule as this new tourney is wearing on.

I don't know what's the current matter but :

In case of a light change of the schedule, like it seems to be, i really don't mind...Do it like you feel it's the best ! I can understand that some want to improve the rules (or to stick with the original ones) to make them the best as possible, but no need to split hairs concerning details !


It's all about fun, ask PIFF's Wink !

[Updated on: Mon, 01 March 2010 13:47]

      
onyx puffin
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Mon, 01 March 2010 17:32
I admit to being one confused by the multiple schedules. We had lined our team noting 2 of our players were not available for 4 days of the schedule posted on ticki: (March 4-8)
ticki post: QF leg1 Mar 01 Mar 01 Mar 08
QF leg2 Mar 08 Mar 08 Mar 15
SF leg1 Mar 16 Mar 16 Mar 23
SF leg2 Mar 23 Mar 23 Mar 30
Final Mar 31 Apr 01 Apr 05.


So we had to scramble to ensure we had 3 players over the dates, which included March 1-3. So when it was announced line-ups did come out until late on March 3rd, we did not know how we would handle this. Since then Stemayf has informed us in a pm:
Lineups by Wednesday 3rd March to begin playing by Saturday 6th. You have then 9 days to complete the first leg, and a further 7-ish days to complete the second leg. Completion by Friday 19th March would be good, so the SF can begin Saturday 20th - as in the original rules. So now when one player gets back on March 8th, we will inform him, he is in.

Probably we need to simply allow captains of those in QF matches to line-up the games in their 2 sets of matches and give a must be completed by this date notation. (March 19th has been posted now I think)

My one other concern has to do with what is posted somewhere as dates for the Final. For whoever gets there, original post indicates Final is April 2-4 which is the traditional Easter/Passover weekend. Hope those teams can both field a group of 3 players over a busy weekend.

[Updated on: Mon, 01 March 2010 17:34]

      
TIC wasdenn
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Tue, 02 March 2010 14:11
Whatever the schedule will be, it has to be clear at some point very soon.

Every Captain has to be informed unambigously by pm and the main Forum threads ("rules" & "QF...") AND Ticki have to be updated within a short time frame.

This said, I don't mind any schedule.

Greets, wd.
      
stemayf
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Re:Champions League - Voting Thread Tue, 02 March 2010 17:22
SCHEDULE FOR THE REST OF THE TOURNAMENT
Stage      Lineups in        Lineups out        Play until
QF Leg 1   Weds 3rd March    Weds 3rd March     Weds 10th March
QF Leg 2   Weds 10th March   Thurs 11th March   Weds 17th March
SF Leg 1   Weds 17th March   Thurs 18th March   Weds 24th March
SF Leg 2   Weds 24th March   Thurs 25th March   Weds 31st March
Final      Weds 31st March   Thurs 1st April    Tues 6th April

For all dates, read 'at the latest'. If you and your opponents PM the lineups, I will get them out straight away to afford you the maximum playing time. I have already published QUAD vs. 6:1.

I hope this schedule finds some common ground between those previously published in the forum or on the ticki. I hope that Captains will be respectful of their opponents if the schedule causes problems to a team, and that a sensible time to play games can be found. Agree this amongst yourselves and then PM me if this happens to be the case.
      
    
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