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ISOisNo1
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Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Fri, 24 August 2007 00:39
I just recently bought Tide of Iron.

The first thing I thought when I opened the box was that those were the figures I was missing from Memoir44.

Tigers to use for the German elite armor and some Shermans that actually look like Shermans!

The infantry look nice too since they are of different types and can form various squads. You have to have German MGs for those beach scenarios!

So, what I have been doing for a few M44 games is using the ToI figures and use A&A chips to apply damage. The red chips are perfect for indicating that the unit is critically damaged, needing only one more hit for elimination.

I guess I'm a sucker for components but I found this enhanced my M44 experience quite a bit.

Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis for Memoir44?
      
Pz V
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Fri, 24 August 2007 02:09
I've thought about it but have decided to go with A&A minis for the infantry and World Tank Museum miniatures for the armor. Complete custom units for each unit type instead of having to use markers. My main reason is I have neither the time nor incliniation to paint but I WANT painted minis. Sending off my M44 minis to get painted is more expensive (even at the cheap Bangladash/India/Philipines/Sri Lanka sweat shops masquerading as factories) than just buying them already painted. Yea, the paint jobs on A&A minis are not exceptional, but they work.

Perrin minis are a good option for various vehicle types such as mobile artillery and heavy tanks. You can just paint them the same solid color to match whichever army they are with. Plus you could outfit the Brits already.

With TOI, why don't you just remove a figure instead of using markers? I guess some figures use two holes though. TOI halftracks, tigers, and trucks would also make a nice addition to M44.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Fri, 24 August 2007 02:59
I don't want to sound untrue to the best World War II game, M44, but is Tide of Iron good? It sounds more involved and looking at it the board looks like you can't change things as much. Is it worth the $ to have another game like M44?
      
ColtsFan76
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Fri, 24 August 2007 03:56
rasmussen81 wrote on Thu, 23 August 2007 19:59

I don't want to sound untrue to the best World War II game, M44, but is Tide of Iron good? It sounds more involved and looking at it the board looks like you can't change things as much. Is it worth the $ to have another game like M44?

You can check out these articles:

http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?goto=89036&start=0
http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?th=10877&start=0
      
Randwulf
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Fri, 24 August 2007 05:24
there is a guy on ebay selling off units of Battlelore... he also started selling off units of M44 and TOI... I missed the M44 card deck but did get a set of dice. and I got a set of tigers and each of the half tracks...

I already have special infantry units... coming out my ears...

I am wondering if this guy is making any money, or if he is gonna get stuck with a bunch of figs no body wants...

      
rasmussen81
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Fri, 24 August 2007 06:20
I just got an e-mail from him about the deck of cards. He said he mostly sells ToI but should be able to get another deck out for sale soon. It's a good idea to get another set of dice! I hadn't thought of that. He's selling the stuff at an ok price if you're just looking to get one or two components of the game but if he is selling most of the stuff I'll bet he makes back the price of the game.

I'm gunning for those cards and dice, so it's every man for himself! Twisted Evil May the best man win.
      
ISOisNo1
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Fri, 24 August 2007 11:21
Pz V wrote on Fri, 24 August 2007 00:09

With TOI, why don't you just remove a figure instead of using markers? I guess some figures use two holes though. TOI halftracks, tigers, and trucks would also make a nice addition to M44.


Because I like the look of full squads of four figures. The units in M44 retain their full firepower till they die so I prefer this way although I see why the other way might be more in line with the Memoir way.

Regarding the tanks, I dont like how they get all clamped together when three or four in the same square. Also, the same reasoning as above with the firepower. I rather think of it as a tank unit thats taking damage till its destroyed but keeps its full firepower till the end.

In any case I love the difference between the German Tigers and normal Pzkw4 now.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Sun, 26 August 2007 06:46
ColtFan, I just read the forum link that you set up - the one about when ToI was coming out. It was interesting and I had to smile when Eric jumped in and told everyone that DoW was not giving up on M44 but was going to wait until they had something to say before telling us when things were coming out.

I have to say I love this game and I'm in for the long haul. I may not be able to convince my wife that I should own two of everything, but I'll be there getting all the expansions whenever they do come out. This game has inspired a whole new facination with WWII.

Thanks Days of Wonder!! Very Happy
      
Hupp234
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Mon, 27 August 2007 15:03
I bought TOI a week ago and got it out, set up the troops and read the rules. The scenarios seem very confusingly written compared to M44. I get the feeling this one hasn't been playtested all that much and that there is a lot of stuff here but not a pulled together game.

As to the components, yes the Sherman's are better, but the Tigers are too close in size to the Mark IV's from initial visual inspection and the figures are OK but not great.

I am sticking with my microarmor to upscale the game.

Bill
      
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Mon, 27 August 2007 19:35
Have to disagree - ToI is a very different game (ASL-verylite) but it is a good game. Some of the scenarios are getting a lot of reports of being unbalanced, but then they are meant to replicate episodes where a certain side won ... and we certainly can't claim balanced scenarios looking at some of the Battle Report ratios here Razz.

I will happily play ToI when I get invited by game group colleagues organising a session and I have the time spare (and I refresh myself with the rules), but M-44 is still my main choice.
      
jbbnbsmith
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Tue, 28 August 2007 04:14
Hupp234 wrote on Mon, 27 August 2007 09:03

I bought TOI a week ago and got it out, set up the troops and read the rules. The scenarios seem very confusingly written compared to M44. I get the feeling this one hasn't been playtested all that much and that there is a lot of stuff here but not a pulled together game.



Really? I find it to be an excellent game. I've only played it about 3 times so far, and each time I gain more appreciation for how well it is "pulled together." It definitely is more difficult in terms of game complexity, and I know I had to look things up quite a bit during my first game. But i suggest you give it another go before passing judgement. Obviously this isn't the place to sing the praises of another company's games, but I thoroughly enjoy TOI and look forward to future expansions.

By the way, it hasn't caused me to lose interest in MM44 as it is really a completely different game in my opinion. And I enjoy both for different reasons.
      
Hupp234
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Tue, 28 August 2007 05:39
I'm sure I will play it a few times to actually be able to make a true judgement.

I was really just commenting on the components with the game and the fact that set up on the board, the figures weren't all that compelling to me.

Bill
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Tue, 28 August 2007 06:40
Hupp234, that must be frustrating. It's not a cheap game and when you lay down that much on something I would imagine you would want to really like it. It's good to know that it is a very different game. From what I had heard so far it sounded like ToI was just a more complicated version of M44 with more unit variety. Do you think you'll end up using the units on your M44 board and use some house rules?
      
SlotraceDK
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Tue, 28 August 2007 15:34
Does anybody have some pictures playing Memoir '44 with A&A Miniature pieces????
I would like to see how it looks because I'm thinking of buying 1:72 scale tanks, bunkers and guns, but if A&A Miniatures are just as good looking I might go for that!
      
Hupp234
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Wed, 29 August 2007 13:50
I am not too upset by the cost of TOI. I think it is a good effort on their part. I am somewhat of a rules junky. I have a friend who is did a lot of ASL in his youth and he might have more patience for this game than I do.

I will not be using the TOI pieces. I think the M44 pieces are better suited for the game on its own board.

I experimented with all types of scales including 54mm. I have settled on 6mm as my scale for this game with 4 inch hexes.

Below are some links to some pics.

Bill

http://homepage.mac.com/whupp/Memoir44Pictures/PhotoAlbum7.h tml

http://homepage.mac.com/whupp/PhotoAlbum20.html
      
Hupp234
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Wed, 29 August 2007 13:59
Here are a picture or two from the previous posts. -Bill

Kursk Overlord - Little Wars Convention

http://homepage.mac.com/whupp/.cv/whupp/Sites/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2006-05-07%2019.45.33%20-0700/Image-6C4DC576DE3B11DA.jpg-thumb_269_202.jpg


Operation Cobra - Little Wars Convention

http://homepage.mac.com/whupp/.cv/whupp/Sites/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-03-11%2021.41.53%20-0800/Image-363B78CA92B811D9.jpg-thumb_269_202.jpg
      
SlotraceDK
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Thu, 30 August 2007 09:53
thanks guys for the links and pictures!!
      
SlotraceDK
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Fri, 31 August 2007 15:22
Found this list of comparing figures: Comparison
Too bad they don't have the figures from different games included!!!
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Sun, 02 September 2007 08:32
Interesting web link. It's nice having them lined up and reviewed, but is there a way to buy them from that web site? Just wondering because I didn't see a way.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Sun, 02 September 2007 18:53
I looked around a little bit and found a good web site for buying figures at 1:72 scale. It's a store in the U.S. and here is a link to a landing craft they have. It looked cool and I remembered that some people were looking for one. http://store.foxholetoys.com/1scww2uslcla.html
      
SlotraceDK
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Sun, 02 September 2007 22:16
How would 1/144 tanks look beside the original Memoir '44 tanks?
      
ANZAC_Trooper
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Mon, 03 September 2007 09:52
Slotracer wrote on Sun, 02 September 2007 21:16

How would 1/144 tanks look beside the original Memoir '44 tanks?


From the Boardgamegeek website - WTM is 1/144:

http://images.boardgamegeek.com/images/pic195008_md.jpg
Sherman Comparision: M '44, ToI, WTM, A&A Mini (left to right, on M '44 board)

http://images.boardgamegeek.com/images/pic195011_md.jpg
Panzer Comparision: M '44, ToI, WTM, A&A Mini (left to right, on M '44 board)
      
SlotraceDK
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Mon, 03 September 2007 13:33
Thanks, I knew I had seen it somewhere!!!

[Updated on: Mon, 03 September 2007 13:37]

      
Dasher
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Sat, 30 January 2010 03:03
I haven't started using ToI minis yet, but I'm thinking of trying out some (minor) House Rules that the ToI minis seem to lend themselves to. Especially in the "Trail of the Fox" expansion, they have some interesting new figures. German Panthers, British Matildas, Bren Carriers, small British and American anti-tank guns, and - be still, oh my heart - FLAK '18/88 's!!!

So, the first thing I wanted was a way to use the FLAK '18/88 anti-tank gun miniature in Memoir '44 games, and just off the top of my head (not playtested yet), I came up with this:

FLAK '18/88 Artillery Special Unit; Single Figure
Range: As Regular Artillery
Dual Use:
1. May be used as regular Artillery, with all normal attack characteristics.
2. If the '88 has a clear line of sight to an enemy Armored unit, it will score a hit on a Tank Symbol, Grenade, or Star. If the '88 is being used in the anti-tank (direct fire) mode, the target is treated as being attacked by an Armored unit. (i.e., an '88 in a Town hex making a direct fire attack against an Armored unit in another Town hex would battle with two less dice.)

The basic game also has halftracks and trucks, so there's lots of ideas to play around with.
      
PanzerRunes
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Sat, 30 January 2010 06:53
This is a pet peeve of mine about the DoW artillery choices.
The Brit's got their 25pdr (and Italian helmets) so why couldn't the US get a 105mm Howitzer and the Germans their 88mm?

(At least the tanks and infantry are good representations for each nation...)

I do use the 88's from ToI... I use the US and German artillery from base game to denote ATG/SWA units.

I've bought heavily into Perrin and Mini Fig's 10mm/n-scale lines.
Both are great products and offer a lot in the way of alternatives.
Mini Fig's has a large variety of artillery



ToI is a good game, great if you are looking for a step up in detail and unit control... You will take a hit in learning curve, setup and play time. The ToI line is not supported nearly as well as M'44. DoW has many more expansion, maps and scenarios than ToI.

But of the systems I have played recently, I think Conflict of Heroes has the best game system... It is a nice balance between detail (control of units) and abstraction (rules complexity)... But unfortunately it is not a miniatures game nor does it have much in the way of expansions.

M'44 is the game that gets the most of my play and development time. This is because M'44 is quick, easy and has the most product support (expansions). DoW and RB definitely have a good thing going in this game.

[Updated on: Sat, 30 January 2010 06:56]

      
ad79
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Sat, 30 January 2010 08:07
Darion Leonidas wrote on Sat, 30 January 2010 03:03

I haven't started using ToI minis yet, but I'm thinking of trying out some (minor) House Rules that the ToI minis seem to lend themselves to. Especially in the "Trail of the Fox" expansion, they have some interesting new figures. German Panthers, British Matildas, Bren Carriers, small British and American anti-tank guns, and - be still, oh my heart - FLAK '18/88 's!!!

So, the first thing I wanted was a way to use the FLAK '18/88 anti-tank gun miniature in Memoir '44 games, and just off the top of my head (not playtested yet), I came up with this:

FLAK '18/88 Artillery Special Unit; Single Figure
Range: As Regular Artillery
Dual Use:
1. May be used as regular Artillery, with all normal attack characteristics.
2. If the '88 has a clear line of sight to an enemy Armored unit, it will score a hit on a Tank Symbol, Grenade, or Star. If the '88 is being used in the anti-tank (direct fire) mode, the target is treated as being attacked by an Armored unit. (i.e., an '88 in a Town hex making a direct fire attack against an Armored unit in another Town hex would battle with two less dice.)

The basic game also has halftracks and trucks, so there's lots of ideas to play around with.


This breakthrough scenario by jdrommel has rules for a German 88 Flak gun.
http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/editor/view/?id=5142
It is listed among the official scenarios so we can assume these rules are approved by DOW. But no minifig for the 88 yet.

Stig Morten
      
50th
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Sat, 30 January 2010 17:51
Sorry Ad79, but that is a house rule. I have my own house rules for the 88 plus other artillery, armor, and infantry. You can download charts showing my house rules units on my user page. I also would like a figure for the mighty 88. But I also like the idea of simplicity for those players that are not true gamers. The people that I play with most often. They do not like to learn complex games, or play something that takes longer than about an hour. That is what I like about Memoir 44, I can get my non wargamer friends to play.
      
ad79
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Sat, 30 January 2010 18:04
My take on it is that they are official since they are included as a special rule in an official scenario by jdrommel. But I can easily be wrong.
      
nemesszili
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Sat, 30 January 2010 18:20
I guess Stig is quite right. Rules for 88s are all the same in the Official Scenarios section (all scenarios using 88s were created by JdRommel, but as it seems, DoW agreed on the rules mentioned in each scenario...).
      
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Sun, 31 January 2010 12:27
ad79 wrote on Sat, 30 January 2010 12:04

My take on it is that they are official since they are included as a special rule in an official scenario by jdrommel. But I can easily be wrong.



Is that an official scenario or a "Scenario from the Front"?.
      
nemesszili
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Sun, 31 January 2010 12:32
It is an Official Scenario.
      
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Tue, 02 February 2010 12:20
No Message Body

[Updated on: Tue, 02 February 2010 12:22]

      
Dasher
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Thu, 04 February 2010 05:40
ad79 wrote on Sat, 30 January 2010 02:07


This breakthrough scenario by jdrommel has rules for a German 88 Flak gun.
http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/editor/view/?id=5142
It is listed among the official scenarios so we can assume these rules are approved by DOW. But no minifig for the 88 yet.

Stig Morten


Dear Stig:

Thanks for the info. I checked out the scenario; looks fun, but I have to disagree with the '88 being able to ignore terrain in Anti-Tank mode. If firing HE, then absolutely; an '88 is just another Artilleryy piece. But what makes it a tank-killer is its nearly flat trajectory in direct-fire mode, and that means requiring a clear line of sight to the target, and all the problems that go with that.

I think jdrommel's 2/2/2/2 attack factor is not unreasonable, although it means that, barring special cards modifying the rolls, an '88 could not wipe out a full-strength armored unit with a single attack. This is probably better for play balance, but I'd be more inclined to give it the 3/3/2/2/1/1 and Star = Tank Hit rating.

The '88 design fathered an entire family of anti-tank guns throughout the war, and all of them were just plain murder. It's one of the only weapon systems in history whose reputation is completely deserved.

We'll play both ways and see what "feels" best. Thanks again for the input!
      
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Thu, 04 February 2010 09:45
Darion Leonidas wrote on Thu, 04 February 2010 04:40


I think jdrommel's 2/2/2/2 attack factor is not unreasonable, although it means that, barring special cards modifying the rolls, an '88 could not wipe out a full-strength armored unit with a single attack. This is probably better for play balance, but I'd be more inclined to give it the 3/3/2/2/1/1 and Star = Tank Hit rating.



I guess you have to factor in the (lack of) scale invovled in M44. Given the game's great flexibility, you never know how many tanks a unit represents, and therefore how much of it you might be able to take out in one go. This still makes it a powerful anit-tank weapon, as it has greater range. Seems like a good balance to me.
      
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Thu, 04 February 2010 18:40
Darion Leonidas wrote on Thu, 04 February 2010 04:40

ad79 wrote on Sat, 30 January 2010 02:07


This breakthrough scenario by jdrommel has rules for a German 88 Flak gun.
http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/editor/view/?id=5142
It is listed among the official scenarios so we can assume these rules are approved by DOW. But no minifig for the 88 yet.

Stig Morten



but I have to disagree with the '88 being able to ignore terrain in Anti-Tank mode.


The 88mm made its name in the open desert - terrain ideally suited to its low trajectory.

2/2/2/2/ with LOS and Star hits on armour all work for me, but not the "ignore terrain battle protections". I can see some logic with hull down armour i.e. tanks behind sandbags, but not in urban built up terrain. Rolling Eyes

      
PlanBee
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Fri, 05 February 2010 12:17
The outstanding feature of the 88 was to pick off allied tanks before they could get anywhere near in range of for their own guns to be effective. Think about an 88 on a Tiger.....why would you give it less dice than a Sherman at 3 hex range?

We play 3 3 3 2. The great thing about this (particularly with a Tiger) is that it creates another tactical option. Sitting such a Tiger in an 'alleyway' of terrain waiting for a Sherman to come into range is a great denfensive tactic, particulalry given the Tiger being harder to destroy. In the end the Shermans have to rush it enmasse, which is pretty much what the Allies did in reality

[Updated on: Fri, 05 February 2010 12:18]

      
PlanBee
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Fri, 05 February 2010 12:21
Darion Leonidas wrote on Thu, 04 February 2010 04:40

ad79 wrote on Sat, 30 January 2010 02:07


This breakthrough scenario by jdrommel has rules for a German 88 Flak gun.
http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/editor/view/?id=5142
It is listed among the official scenarios so we can assume these rules are approved by DOW. But no minifig for the 88 yet.

Stig Morten


Dear Stig:

Thanks for the info. I checked out the scenario; looks fun, but I have to disagree with the '88 being able to ignore terrain in Anti-Tank mode. If firing HE, then absolutely; an '88 is just another Artilleryy piece. But what makes it a tank-killer is its nearly flat trajectory in direct-fire mode, and that means requiring a clear line of sight to the target, and all the problems that go with that.

I think jdrommel's 2/2/2/2 attack factor is not unreasonable, although it means that, barring special cards modifying the rolls, an '88 could not wipe out a full-strength armored unit with a single attack. This is probably better for play balance, but I'd be more inclined to give it the 3/3/2/2/1/1 and Star = Tank Hit rating.

The '88 design fathered an entire family of anti-tank guns throughout the war, and all of them were just plain murder. It's one of the only weapon systems in history whose reputation is completely deserved.

We'll play both ways and see what "feels" best. Thanks again for the input!


Absolutely right. However intheory if you give the 88 the options of Anti Tank (requiring LOS) or HE (not requiring it as per standard M44 rules) why wouldnt you give the same option to armour? After all the Tiger carried an 88. Most tanks (with the notable excetpion of the otherwise glorious Matilda II) could fire both
      
PlanBee
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Mon, 08 February 2010 20:36
I wouldnt worry too much about scale, DoW obviuosly don't! In real life a Crusader tank was just 1cm (about 1/5 inch) smaller than a T34. As you can see from the link, in M44 land the T34 is about twice the size of the Crusader. The other tanks are also out of scale.


http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/mypage/348994/m44/gallery
      
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Re:Anyone else using Tide of Iron minis? Wed, 24 February 2010 22:13
rasmussen81 wrote on Thu, 23 August 2007 20:59

I don't want to sound untrue to the best World War II game, M44, but is Tide of Iron good? It sounds more involved and looking at it the board looks like you can't change things as much. Is it worth the $ to have another game like M44?


ToI is nothing like M44 IMO...The game similarities pretty much end with they are both based on WWII and both are great games.

They both also have a very good support network with onlne scenarios posted by users and it seems both will have more expoansions down the road.

Not trying to put down M44, but I would liken M44 to playing risk vs ToI being Axis and Allies. If I want a quick easy gaming fix without a lot of deep thought I play M44...if I want somethig more it is ToI.

ToI is very flexible and the map combinations are almost limitless for building new scenarios. The game mechanics provide an excellent base structure and then allow the scenario designer to incorporate advanced scenario specific abilities similar to M44.

The Biggest draw back for ToI to me is set up and play time. The shortest scenarios take about an hour and a longer one can easily take 3-4 hours. Unlike M44 not all units are created equal.

If you have not played it is very much worth giving a try.

Like I said both M44 and ToI are both great games..it just depends on what you are in the mood for at the time. Wink


      
    
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