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OldBloodandGuts
Posts: 298
Registered:
May 2007
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Early thoughts on some of the "newer" expansions
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Mon, 01 March 2010 18:23
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I've been playing M44 and the base expansions (TP, EF, PT) for years. A couple weeks ago, after slowly succumbing to cabin fever courtesy of the midwestern winter, I ordered a few more expansions: the Air Pack (finally), Mediterranean Theater, Sword of Stalingrad, and Tigers in the Snow.
It's still early (well, for me, at least), but I wanted to share some first impressions:
1. The Air Pack.
I have to admit, I am not a big fan of adding airplanes to M44 (which explains why I put off this expansion for so long). Without digressing too much into gaming philosophy, my two main reasons are (1) I think air power has a greater effect at the strategic, not tactical level, and therefore isn't a good "fit" with Memoir, and (2) when it does affect the tactical, it was already handled adequately - if modestly - off-board via the existing cards.
That said, I'm pretty impressed with the Air Pack. The models look better than in pictures I've seen. The P-38 is the one exception, but a quick coat of silver paint and some invasion striping fixed that (pictures to come). Anyone know why the Zero is green and not white? It was probably mentioned in earlier posts, but I'm too lazy to go back and look. I imagine it has something to do with which branch of the Japanese military it comes from, but I'm not sure.
Despite my misgivings about bringing in planes, they seem pretty unobtrusive so far. Their impact on play is relatively mild. So while I won't say I'm converted to a fan of planes in M44, I will say that I'm more neutral on them now than I was before. The cards and scenario manual are also well done.
2. The Mediterranean Theater.
I'd read all the hullabaloo about the British helmets, and I must say I was less bothered by these than by the cannons on my Crusaders, which were nearly all bent downward and resembled nothing quite so much as flaccid...well, you know. I'd like to get some British troop models who look like they're equipped to fight in Europe (ie., no shorts). My interest in North Africa (as the scenarios on my User Page attest) is more in the American side of Africa. I'd also like to see some First Airborne and their red berets some day, but I won't hold my breath. Despite my emasculated tanks, this set seems alright. I'm eager to use the SWA anti-tank weapons.
3. Sword of Stalingrad.
Haven't had a chance to check any of this yet, but I love the idea of urban combat. And Stalingrad is a battle that should get more attention from M44. Between the German attack and the Russian counterattack in Operation Uranus it was what? like four months? A big, big battle...looking forward to getting those maps out.
Tigers in the Snow
The good news is I think the models are great. They didn't look good in the pictures I saw - just sort of gray blobs - but once painted, they look real sharp. The bad news is I don't care for the Tiger rules. Making them hard to destroy is good -- they were. But heavy tanks like the Tiger should be slower than the Shermans and Pz IVs we already have. Historically, the trade-off for thicker armor is reduced speed and mobility. I'd also like to have seen something to represent the ferocity of that 88 they mounted - maybe extended range. Unless I missed it (and with all this new stuff, I might have), they don't get any attack benefit.
Anyway, I just wanted to share some early impressions with everybody and see what you thought. I'll have more once I get all these suckers painted and in play.
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Achtung Panzer
Posts: 948
Registered:
December 2007
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Re:Early thoughts on some of the "newer" expansions
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Mon, 01 March 2010 20:51
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| OldBloodandGuts wrote on Mon, 01 March 2010 17:23 |
Tigers in the Snow
The bad news is I don't care for the Tiger rules. Making them hard to destroy is good -- they were. But heavy tanks like the Tiger should be slower than the Shermans and Pz IVs we already have. Historically, the trade-off for thicker armor is reduced speed and mobility. I'd also like to have seen something to represent the ferocity of that 88 they mounted - maybe extended range. Unless I missed it (and with all this new stuff, I might have), they don't get any attack benefit.
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I agree about the speed and think that Tigers should be reduced to 2 hexes. I know the Blitz rule which does reduce Allied armour movement also represents poor tactics, command and control etc. so perhaps simply reflecting weight was not a big enough reason to reduce movement?
Also, there are "official" rules from JDrommel for the 88mm including Star hits on armour. I haven't tried play-tested either of these ideas for Tigers but they would seem to be an historical reflection?
Interestingly enough, the main enemy for the Tiger and other German heavy AFV would be aircraft. So here's an opportunity to use the Air Rules more and try them out. 
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OldBloodandGuts
Posts: 298
Registered:
May 2007
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Re:Early thoughts on some of the "newer" expansions
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Thu, 04 March 2010 18:35
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I like the star-hit-on-armor idea -- I've used the same thing for my own houserules on TD units.
I'd love to see more variation in armor presentation, too. Light tanks should move 4, but fire 2/2/2. The only condition is that they should never have their attack dice reduced below one because of terrain -- in other words, even a light tank should roll one die against a unit in a fortress.
The standard tanks -- Shermans, PzIVs, Crusaders, etc. -- are medium tanks, and are perfect with the move 3 and attack 3/3/3.
Heavy tanks tank more imagination. Moving two is a good start. And I really like the Tiger rules for making them harder to hit. It might be fun to experiment with range, too -- maybe 3/3/3/2, or something.
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Michael Von Älterman
Posts: 294
Registered:
January 2007
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Re:Early thoughts on some of the "newer" expansions
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Thu, 04 March 2010 19:32
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hello guy's
What do you think about the fire power of a Tiger tank
4-3-3-2 and a move of 2 hexes.
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rasmussen81
Posts: 6071
Registered:
July 2007
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Re:Early thoughts on some of the "newer" expansions
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Thu, 04 March 2010 19:44
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| private michel wrote on Thu, 04 March 2010 10:32 |
hello guy's
What do you think about the fire power of a Tiger tank
4-3-3-2 and a move of 2 hexes.
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The danger with increasing the attack dice to 4, is that when a player uses Armor Assault, Close Assault, etc which increases the battle dice you get to roll, the player will be rolling 5 dice! 
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Achtung Panzer
Posts: 948
Registered:
December 2007
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OldBloodandGuts
Posts: 298
Registered:
May 2007
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Re:Early thoughts on some of the "newer" expansions
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Thu, 04 March 2010 20:10
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| Achtung Panzer wrote on Thu, 04 March 2010 13:45 |
The number of combat dice rolled is a very important game mechanism and you alter this at your (and the game's) perril!
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Agreed. I've had good success reducing it in some home-made scenarios. One of these - a historic scenario - pitted American M3 Stuarts (which fire a small 37mm cannon) against the German Pz IV (which fires a 75mm cannon). It would have been ridiculous to have these two very different weapons attack in the same way. I toyed with the idea of making the Stuarts attack at a reduced range (3/3), but that made them ahistorically vulnerable to infantry. Slipping the Stuarts down to 2-2-2 did the trick perfectly.
With bigger guns, like the Tiger's, I'd be more inclined to increase the range.
http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/editor/view/?id=4528
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Shnik
Posts: 100
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May 2008
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Re:Early thoughts on some of the "newer" expansions
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Fri, 05 March 2010 00:33
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| rasmussen81 wrote on Thu, 04 March 2010 13:44 |
| private michel wrote on Thu, 04 March 2010 10:32 |
hello guy's
What do you think about the fire power of a Tiger tank
4-3-3-2 and a move of 2 hexes.
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The danger with increasing the attack dice to 4, is that when a player uses Armor Assault, Close Assault, etc which increases the battle dice you get to roll, the player will be rolling 5 dice!
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Well, there's already a precedent for that, with full Japanese infantry squads close assaulting with a "+1 die" card rolling 5 dice. I love borrowing my opponent's dice to better exterminate him! 
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rasmussen81
Posts: 6071
Registered:
July 2007
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Re:Early thoughts on some of the "newer" expansions
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Fri, 05 March 2010 00:37
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| Shnik wrote on Thu, 04 March 2010 15:33 |
Well, there's already a precedent for that, with full Japanese infantry squads close assaulting with a "+1 die" card rolling 5 dice. I love borrowing my opponent's dice to better exterminate him!
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Right, but there's an easy way to prevent that attack from happening very often! You just eliminate one figure from each unit and you won't have to see 5 dice rolled against you! But if a unit always attacks with 4 dice, they can attack with 5 dice if they have one of those cards up until they're destroyed. 
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TheMarshalUK
Posts: 183
Registered:
March 2009
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TheMarshalUK
Posts: 183
Registered:
March 2009
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TheMarshalUK
Posts: 183
Registered:
March 2009
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Re:Early thoughts on some of the "newer" expansions
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Fri, 05 March 2010 10:06
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Part 3
Australian Infantry By Hat (Currently HAT version Plastic Colour is light brown not green)
http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/review.aspx?id=48
(the link is for airfix but HaT use the same moulds for there figures so contents the same though they use softer plastic. Airfix Aussies aren't currently in print)
Ghurkhas By Hat (Currently Plastic Colour As shown)
http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=507
(the link is for airfix but HaT use the same moulds for there figures so contents the same though they use softer plastic. Airfix Aussies are currently in print though HaT are usually cheaper in the UK)
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TheMarshalUK
Posts: 183
Registered:
March 2009
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TheMarshalUK
Posts: 183
Registered:
March 2009
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OldBloodandGuts
Posts: 298
Registered:
May 2007
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Re:Early thoughts on some of the "newer" expansions
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Fri, 05 March 2010 17:22
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Wow, great stuff Marshal!
Some of those would be a perfect way to supplement my Memoir units...time to dust off the credit card, I guess...
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rasmussen81
Posts: 6071
Registered:
July 2007
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Re:Early thoughts on some of the "newer" expansions
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Fri, 05 March 2010 17:27
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| OldBloodandGuts wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 08:22 |
Wow, great stuff Marshal!
Some of those would be a perfect way to supplement my Memoir units...
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I haven't worked on them for a little while, but I have a sizable collection of troops like the above examples that I painted. They are perfect to use as elite infantry units or to add some extra flavor to the game!
I believe it's worth the time and money!  My wife might disagree! 
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Mighty Jim 83
Posts: 333
Registered:
August 2009
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Re:Early thoughts on some of the "newer" expansions
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Fri, 05 March 2010 17:34
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| rasmussen81 wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 16:27 |
I believe it's worth the time and money! My wife might disagree!
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I'm still trying to convince my wife that it's a good idea to buy a game we already own (i.e. second base game of M44 for Overlord) - how did other people manage it?
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rasmussen81
Posts: 6071
Registered:
July 2007
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Re:Early thoughts on some of the "newer" expansions
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Fri, 05 March 2010 17:49
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| Mighty Jim 83 wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 08:34 |
| rasmussen81 wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 16:27 |
I believe it's worth the time and money! My wife might disagree!
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I'm still trying to convince my wife that it's a good idea to buy a game we already own (i.e. second base game of M44 for Overlord) - how did other people manage it?
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I got lucky and I was able to buy several sets to use in my teaching at school. But if I hadn't been able to do that I would have asked for it from my brother as a gift! That way it wouldn't be coming out of our cash-flow but I would count on him getting the right set for me. 
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stevens
Posts: 2725
Registered:
February 2007
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Re:Early thoughts on some of the "newer" expansions
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Fri, 05 March 2010 19:27
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Use the old "at least I don't play golf!" line.
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tank commander
Posts: 1788
Registered:
October 2004
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Re:Early thoughts on some of the "newer" expansions
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Fri, 05 March 2010 20:01
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| Mighty Jim 83 wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 11:34 |
| rasmussen81 wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 16:27 |
I believe it's worth the time and money! My wife might disagree!
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I'm still trying to convince my wife that it's a good idea to buy a game we already own (i.e. second base game of M44 for Overlord) - how did other people manage it?
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I told my wife my first copy would self-destruct in 10 seconds
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ad79
Posts: 773
Registered:
September 2007
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Re:Early thoughts on some of the "newer" expansions
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Fri, 05 March 2010 20:42
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| stevens wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 19:27 |
Use the old "at least I don't play golf!" line.
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And for people that actually play golf. Any ideas for us?
Stig Morten
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OldBloodandGuts
Posts: 298
Registered:
May 2007
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Re:Early thoughts on some of the "newer" expansions
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Fri, 05 March 2010 21:48
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| ad79 wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 14:42 |
| stevens wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 19:27 |
Use the old "at least I don't play golf!" line.
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And for people that actually play golf. Any ideas for us?
Stig Morten
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Keep your left elbow straight, use your legs and shoulders -- not arms, have a rhythmic takeaway, swivel your hips, rotate your shoulders, swing through (not to) the ball, keep it low on windy days, try to play a draw when it's not, always practice the short game.
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afilter
Posts: 26
Registered:
February 2010
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Re:Early thoughts on some of the "newer" expansions
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Fri, 05 March 2010 21:52
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Tell the wife? What kind of nonsense are you guys talking about...what she does not know...will only hurt me later.
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rasmussen81
Posts: 6071
Registered:
July 2007
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Re:Early thoughts on some of the "newer" expansions
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Sat, 06 March 2010 00:48
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| afilter wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 12:52 |
Tell the wife? What kind of nonsense are you guys talking about...what she does not know...will only hurt me later.
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Let us know how the whole 'hiding things' from the wife thing goes for you!
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sam1812
Posts: 1912
Registered:
August 2006
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Re:Early thoughts on some of the "newer" expansions
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Sat, 06 March 2010 02:22
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| ad79 wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 14:42 |
| stevens wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 19:27 |
Use the old "at least I don't play golf!" line.
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And for people that actually play golf. Any ideas for us?
Stig Morten
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When you play a course in another country, do you buy a new set of clubs and paint it to match the nationality?
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ad79
Posts: 773
Registered:
September 2007
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Re:Early thoughts on some of the "newer" expansions
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Sat, 06 March 2010 09:06
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| sam1812 wrote on Sat, 06 March 2010 02:22 |
| ad79 wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 14:42 |
| stevens wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 19:27 |
Use the old "at least I don't play golf!" line.
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And for people that actually play golf. Any ideas for us?
Stig Morten
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When you play a course in another country, do you buy a new set of clubs and paint it to match the nationality?
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No, my wife have forbidden me to start painting my toys. 
So I play Memoir with plain plastic pieces and play golf with my trusty metallic coloured irons and black grips. Except my gap wedge which has a cool oil can finish.
Stig Morten
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ad79
Posts: 773
Registered:
September 2007
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Re:Early thoughts on some of the "newer" expansions
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Sat, 06 March 2010 09:19
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| OldBloodandGuts wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 21:48 |
| ad79 wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 14:42 |
| stevens wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 19:27 |
Use the old "at least I don't play golf!" line.
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And for people that actually play golf. Any ideas for us?
Stig Morten
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Keep your left elbow straight, use your legs and shoulders -- not arms, have a rhythmic takeaway, swivel your hips, rotate your shoulders, swing through (not to) the ball, keep it low on windy days, try to play a draw when it's not, always practice the short game.
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Thanks for the advice, might come in handy this season, if the snow ever disappears.
To get back on topic about in this thread.
I like the Airpack, but as you say the impact of the airplanes can differ very much from scenario to scenario.
I played the germans in The Fall Gelb campaign and used the airplanes alot during that.
I even got to use the Storch to rescue a 1 figure infantry unit. The look on my opponents face when that medal flew of the board was priceless.
During Fall Gelb I used the Messerchmitt to harrass the enemy units on his baseline and his artillery. It's quite a difference for a player to have his reserve infantry units consist of 2 and 3 figures instead of 4 figures. By taking out a lot of figures I made it diffucult for my opponent to commit units to go on the attack, because they were weakened and could be elliminated in one attack.
But I rolled the dice very well in that campaign and that might be why the airplanes played a vital role in my victory.
Other scenarios the planes have flown around and then failed air checks or just missed entirely on strafing.
A bit like the Tiger tanks, sometimes they get to harass the enemy for several rounds, other times they just fail.
And that is part of why I like them, they can be good and they can be bad. But they are fun.
Kinda like my Ping driver, sometimes it finds the fairway for several holes and sometimes it just heads for the unknown like the early explorers.
Stig Morten
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boersma8
Posts: 163
Registered:
February 2005
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Re:Early thoughts on some of the "newer" expansions
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Sun, 07 March 2010 14:58
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| OldBloodandGuts wrote on Mon, 01 March 2010 18:23 |
Tigers in the Snow
. The bad news is I don't care for the Tiger rules. Making them hard to destroy is good -- they were. But heavy tanks like the Tiger should be slower than the Shermans and Pz IVs we already have. Historically, the trade-off for thicker armor is reduced speed and mobility. I'd also like to have seen something to represent the ferocity of that 88 they mounted - maybe extended range. Unless I missed it (and with all this new stuff, I might have), they don't get any attack benefit.
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I think the Tiger rules are fine. Of course you're right about them being slower and stuff, but I think this might be added to specific scenarios as one of the posters below did as a special rule. If you made a change like this you'd have to specify many more types of tanks and guns and judging the immensely varying scale of memoir 44, I don't really think that's necessary....Play TOI, AAM or CoH if you want units to be more detailed than they already are and/or include such rules in scenarios, which BTW I hope is something Richard will do for an Overlord map expansion!
[Updated on: Sun, 07 March 2010 15:02]
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PanzerRunes
Posts: 228
Registered:
January 2007
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Re:Early thoughts on some of the "newer" expansions
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Mon, 08 March 2010 09:32
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| Mighty Jim 83 wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 08:34 |
| rasmussen81 wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 16:27 |
I believe it's worth the time and money! My wife might disagree!
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I'm still trying to convince my wife that it's a good idea to buy a game we already own (i.e. second base game of M44 for Overlord) - how did other people manage it?
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| ad79 wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 11:42 |
| stevens wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 19:27 |
Use the old "at least I don't play golf!" line.
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And for people that actually play golf. Any ideas for us?
Stig Morten
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Being married for a number of years I found sometimes it is just easier to ask for forgiveness rather than permission... I would recommend first making sure no high dollar items are needed for the rest of the month... then act on your impulse.
Now if you're going to go out and buy two of everything then you may be taking your life into your own hands...
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OldBloodandGuts
Posts: 298
Registered:
May 2007
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Re:Early thoughts on some of the "newer" expansions
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Mon, 08 March 2010 20:09
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I've started to slap some paint on my "newer" expansions...now that I've figured out how to post them, here are a few pics...enjoy!:
A Tiger, camouflaged for ambush with local vegetation:
An anti-tank weapon, concealed behind rocks and rubble:
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OldBloodandGuts
Posts: 298
Registered:
May 2007
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Re:Early thoughts on some of the "newer" expansions
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Mon, 08 March 2010 20:11
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Some British Infantry:
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OldBloodandGuts
Posts: 298
Registered:
May 2007
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Re:Early thoughts on some of the "newer" expansions
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Mon, 08 March 2010 20:13
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A pair of British 25-pounders (and their Crusader escorts) waiting to launch the "Garden" part of Market-Garden. I did the other 4 artillery pieces in a desert brown with sand bases:
And another anti-tank weapon, concealed behind desert rocks and rubble:
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JWRockets
Posts: 26
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July 2009
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Re:Early thoughts on some of the "newer" expansions
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Tue, 09 March 2010 02:51
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I'm still trying to convince my wife that it's a good idea to buy a game we already own (i.e. second base game of M44 for Overlord) - how did other people manage it?
[/quote]
Tax Return Money. My order is on the truck and is scheduled to arrive on Thursday. I had the box shipped to my office. And dang it, I'm off this Thursday.
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Katipunero
Posts: 8
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March 2010
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Maimed
Posts: 304
Registered:
November 2007
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