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Makoa
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quick air pack question? Tue, 09 March 2010 00:38
i just want to check on this because im not sure if im doing it correct or not.

when playing the air sortie card to bring a plane on the field. Is it just to get it on the field (in this case from a edge hex) or am i still able to use a special action such as strafing?

When we played it last night i told my cousin that you just bring it on the field and order it on his next turn to do strafing or ground inderdiction. (Sadly for him i won the match before he could order his plane on his next turn)
      
rasmussen81
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Re:quick air pack question? Tue, 09 March 2010 00:47
Makoa wrote on Mon, 08 March 2010 15:38

i just want to check on this because im not sure if im doing it correct or not.

when playing the air sortie card to bring a plane on the field. Is it just to get it on the field (in this case from a edge hex) or am i still able to use a special action such as strafing?

When we played it last night i told my cousin that you just bring it on the field and order it on his next turn to do strafing or ground inderdiction. (Sadly for him i won the match before he could order his plane on his next turn)


You can order the plane to do anything it could normally do when it first comes on the board. Your cousin could have brought his (or her) plane onto the board and strafed your units right away.
      
Makoa
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Re:quick air pack question? Tue, 09 March 2010 00:52
haha ok. looks like i'll hear it from him a bit when i tell him i told him how to play it wrong. Maybe he could have won the match if i understood it better or maybe he can read the manual himself next time so i don't have to explain everything all the time.

thanks for the help
      
rasmussen81
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Re:quick air pack question? Tue, 09 March 2010 01:16
Makoa wrote on Mon, 08 March 2010 15:52

or maybe he can read the manual himself next time so i don't have to explain everything all the time.


That's the key!! Make him read the rules too! Smile

I don't have the Air Rules with me right now, could anyone else give us the page reference of where this is outlined? It runs in my mind it might have been part of an illustration as well as simply in the text.
      
sam1812
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Re:quick air pack question? Tue, 09 March 2010 01:31
On page 5 of the Air Pack rules, under the Orders section, there's an illustration of a plane entering the board and strafing.

I found that I had to read the Air Pack book several times to absorb it all thoroughly, because it's easy to miss something. (Same thing with the Campaign Book.)
      
rasmussen81
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Re:quick air pack question? Tue, 09 March 2010 01:34
sam1812 wrote on Mon, 08 March 2010 16:31

On page 5 of the Air Pack rules, under the Orders section, there's an illustration of a plane entering the board and strafing.


Thanks Sam! I knew it was in there somewhere.

I found that I had to read the Air Pack book several times to absorb it all thoroughly, because it's easy to miss something. (Same thing with the Campaign Book.)[/quote]

I found that reading things several times was necessary, and I still have to look back at the rules sometimes to make sure I'm not remembering something wrong!

[Updated on: Tue, 09 March 2010 01:34]

      
JWRockets
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Re:quick air pack question? Tue, 09 March 2010 02:37
If you have to bring the aircraft onto an empty edge hex, how can it strafe on the same turn? I can see Ground Support, Interdiction, and Recon, but not strafe. I, too, do not have the rule book in front of me.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:quick air pack question? Tue, 09 March 2010 03:03
JWRockets wrote on Mon, 08 March 2010 17:37

If you have to bring the aircraft onto an empty edge hex, how can it strafe on the same turn? I can see Ground Support, Interdiction, and Recon, but not strafe. I, too, do not have the rule book in front of me.


Well, the units the would be strafing have to be along the edge of the board or close to it. A plane could strafe up to 3 units! Smile
      
sam1812
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Re:quick air pack question? Tue, 09 March 2010 04:20
JWRockets wrote on Mon, 08 March 2010 20:37

If you have to bring the aircraft onto an empty edge hex, how can it strafe on the same turn? I can see Ground Support, Interdiction, and Recon, but not strafe. I, too, do not have the rule book in front of me.

Unlike ground units, airborne planes don't have to enter teh board on an empty hex. They just have to end each turn on an empty hex.

During its movement, the plane can fly over up to 3 hexes, which may or may not be occupied by friendly or opposing units. It may strafe the opposing units, if that's the action you choose.
      
JWRockets
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Re:quick air pack question? Tue, 09 March 2010 05:07
[quote title=sam1812 wrote on Mon, 08 March 2010 22:20]
JWRockets wrote on Mon, 08 March 2010 20:37

If you have to bring the aircraft onto an empty edge hex, how can it strafe on the same turn? I can see Ground Support, Interdiction, and Recon, but not strafe. I, too, do not have the rule book in front of me.

Unlike ground units, airborne planes don't have to enter teh board on an empty hex. They just have to end each turn on an empty hex.

Aaaaaahhhhhh!

I'll have to go back and read that. Again.

[Updated on: Tue, 09 March 2010 05:08]

      
xfoley96
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Re:quick air pack question? Tue, 09 March 2010 22:17
rasmussen81 wrote on Mon, 08 March 2010 18:47

Makoa wrote on Mon, 08 March 2010 15:38

i just want to check on this because im not sure if im doing it correct or not.

when playing the air sortie card to bring a plane on the field. Is it just to get it on the field (in this case from a edge hex) or am i still able to use a special action such as strafing?

When we played it last night i told my cousin that you just bring it on the field and order it on his next turn to do strafing or ground inderdiction. (Sadly for him i won the match before he could order his plane on his next turn)


You can order the plane to do anything it could normally do when it first comes on the board. Your cousin could have brought his (or her) plane onto the board and strafed your units right away.


This was a major bone of contention with my brother & I when we first started using the Air Pack, and one of the reasons why the planes are a mixed blessing for some folks, I think. This could have been stated more clearly in the rules- that an Air Sortie card by itself allows the plane to take an action, not just fly onto the board on an edge hex.

Also, if the plane can be ordered to do a strafe or another action with the Sortie card by itself, why does ordering it with a Section card (in conjunction with the Sortie card) take up one of the Section card actions? Never could see the justification for that, and I think it unnecessarily complicates how the card is played and is the cause of the confusion talked about above. Does it really upset the balance of play that much?


      
Mighty Jim 83
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Re:quick air pack question? Tue, 09 March 2010 23:33
xfoley8 wrote on Tue, 09 March 2010 21:17


Also, if the plane can be ordered to do a strafe or another action with the Sortie card by itself, why does ordering it with a Section card (in conjunction with the Sortie card) take up one of the Section card actions? Never could see the justification for that, and I think it unnecessarily complicates how the card is played and is the cause of the confusion talked about above. Does it really upset the balance of play that much?





Well, as a standard turn, you can only play one card, and perform the associated action. If you play a section card with an air-sortie, you're getting the bonus of being able to play a 2nd card in your turn. Also, because air sorties don't count towards your hand, you've had a larger pool of actions to choose from.

All in all, it doesn't seem that unreasonable that the trade-off for being able to play two cards in a turn is that one of those actions has to be paid for twice.

      
sam1812
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Re:quick air pack question? Wed, 10 March 2010 02:30
[quote title=xfoley8 wrote on Tue, 09 March 2010 16:17Also, if the plane can be ordered to do a strafe or another action with the Sortie card by itself, why does ordering it with a Section card (in conjunction with the Sortie card) take up one of the Section card actions? Never could see the justification for that, and I think it unnecessarily complicates how the card is played and is the cause of the confusion talked about above. Does it really upset the balance of play that much?[/quote]

DOW posted a series of articles describing various aspects of the Air Pack when they were preparing to release it. Here's a link to the one that specifically talked about Air Sorties. http://blog.daysofwonder.com/2007/09/12/memoir-44-taking-to- the-skies/en/
      
ad79
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Re:quick air pack question? Wed, 10 March 2010 08:50
xfoley8 wrote on Tue, 09 March 2010 22:17


Also, if the plane can be ordered to do a strafe or another action with the Sortie card by itself, why does ordering it with a Section card (in conjunction with the Sortie card) take up one of the Section card actions? Never could see the justification for that, and I think it unnecessarily complicates how the card is played and is the cause of the confusion talked about above. Does it really upset the balance of play that much?





I see your problem here, but my take on it is.

Playing an Air Sortie alone lets you bring a plane on the board or order a plane without doing the Air Check. This is fine if you just want to order the plane.

If you have two weak units, you want to move away or two week enemy units you want to elliminate, you play a section card, say Attack, and order two units and the last order on that card is used for the plane. You have now ordered your three units.
Since your plane is on a Cemetary hex and no enemy units are adjacent you don't have to do the Air Check. Excellent.

But if your plane is on a Forrest hex and have 3 enemy units adjacent that you want to strafe, you would now face a Air Check with 5 dice and a possibility for a enemy medal.

In this case the Attack card, alongside the Air Sortie is a good idea, you can order two units to attack the two weak enemy units, and order the plane to strafe the three units adjacent to it.
The Air Sortie is a modification to the Attack card now, and allows you to ignore he Air Check, so no danger of giving the enemy that medal for the plane.

Or the same if you use it to bring a plane onto the board, it works as a modifier to the Attack card. A lot like the new Combat Deck where you have card that modify or work in conjunction with the regular Command cards.

Stig Morten
      
Makoa
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Re:quick air pack question? Wed, 10 March 2010 09:43
i have another question on this.

the ground inderdiction action. Say i move my plane and use the ground inderdiction action on enemy units. End my turn and the opponent does his turn. When its my turn again am i allowed to order my plane to just stay there and do ground inderdiciton again?

Or do i have to move. Is flying and ending my planes movement on the hex it started on allowed?
      
ad79
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Re:quick air pack question? Wed, 10 March 2010 10:07
Your airplane must move at least 1 hex every time it is ordered and can not end it's move in the same hex it started, and it can't fly over the same hex twice with the same order.

Stig Morten
      
xfoley96
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Re:quick air pack question? Wed, 10 March 2010 19:35
Mighty Jim 83 wrote on Tue, 09 March 2010 17:33


All in all, it doesn't seem that unreasonable that the trade-off for being able to play two cards in a turn is that one of those actions has to be paid for twice.




I can see the argument, but I still say it unnecessarily complicates what was a really elegant rules system before. Unfortunately, the seeming inconsistency in that rule caused many an argument at my gaming table, and detracted from the enjoyment of the game a bit. We got over it, eventually, but every time we play and I bring a plane on the board, the hackles go up. My brother would just as soon not use the planes at all, but I like having the option. He never brings a plane into play unless I do.
      
sam1812
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Re:quick air pack question? Thu, 11 March 2010 01:47
xfoley8 wrote on Wed, 10 March 2010 13:35

I can see the argument, but I still say it unnecessarily complicates what was a really elegant rules system before. Unfortunately, the seeming inconsistency in that rule caused many an argument at my gaming table, and detracted from the enjoyment of the game a bit. We got over it, eventually, but every time we play and I bring a plane on the board, the hackles go up. My brother would just as soon not use the planes at all, but I like having the option. He never brings a plane into play unless I do.

From a pragmatic standpoint, I guess the ultimate explanation for why the Air Rules are the way they are is that (I know this may sound a non-answer) the game designer liked it that way. Players are always free to make up their own house rules.
      
tank commander
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Re:quick air pack question? Thu, 11 March 2010 12:10
xfoley8 wrote on Wed, 10 March 2010 13:35

Mighty Jim 83 wrote on Tue, 09 March 2010 17:33


All in all, it doesn't seem that unreasonable that the trade-off for being able to play two cards in a turn is that one of those actions has to be paid for twice.




I can see the argument, but I still say it unnecessarily complicates what was a really elegant rules system before. Unfortunately, the seeming inconsistency in that rule caused many an argument at my gaming table, and detracted from the enjoyment of the game a bit. We got over it, eventually, but every time we play and I bring a plane on the board, the hackles go up. My brother would just as soon not use the planes at all, but I like having the option. He never brings a plane into play unless I do.



Without a doubt, the Air Rules add a layer of complexity to Mem '44. Each player has to weigh that against what it brings to the table in added enjoyment - if any - your mileage may vary.

But I found that after using them a number of times, this seemed less of an issue to me. Mainly because I spent the time to reread those rules and understand how they work.

It sounds to me like your brother does not have a good handle on these rules and therefore has a negative reaction when they are used. How does that saying go "We hate and fear that which we do not understand".

My suggestion (and take that for what it is worth) is to gather all the answers to your questions on the Air rules including any FAQs and then take the time to go over the Air rules with your brother. Who knows, he may even wish to use them in the future without any problems.

If you use Vassal, I have almost completed my revised Air Rules tutorial log file which can be loaded onto Vassal and run through.


      
stevens
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Re:quick air pack question? Thu, 11 March 2010 12:22
Hey TC,
That sounds like a great instructional aid. I look forward to you putting it out.

Razz
      
tank commander
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Re:quick air pack question? Thu, 11 March 2010 22:30
stevens wrote on Thu, 11 March 2010 06:22

Hey TC,
That sounds like a great instructional aid. I look forward to you putting it out.

Razz



I made the first one not too long ago for two new ladder players so they could get a good idea of how to use the Air Rules w/ Vassal. Funny thing is one of the players never got around to playing his match.

I just have to find the time to polish up the revised one and will then download it to the ladder site.
      
    
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