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ad79
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Mon, 10 May 2010 15:01
Another question.
This time about how to handle Air Rules with 2 command card decks as DOW recommends for more exciting play.

Example from Breakthrough To Mortain:
Give both Air Sorties to the Allied player.

If I use 2 decks, do I
A: Give 4 Air Sorties to the Allied player
b: Give 2 Air Sorties to the Allied player and Shuffle 2 into the deck at the start.
C: Only use 2 Air Sorties and give both to the Allied player

And for those scenarios that have Air Rules as optional,
and the notes tell me to give 1 Air Sortie to each, do I
A: Give each player 2 Air Sorties
B: Give each player 1 Air Sortie and shuffle 2 inot the deck at the start
C: Use only 2 Air Sorties and give 1 to each player.

Stig Morten
      
Achtung Panzer
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Mon, 10 May 2010 19:42
My vote would be for option B in both cases.

I raised a similar question when the Breakthrough Kit was first mentioned as using two decks, though the response was that using 2 decks is more fun rather than each scenario being play-tested with two decks. I think anything that increases the frequency of air activity should be adopted.

Note, each deck within the Overlord Expansion comes with 2 Air Sortie cards so using all 4 would be the case and Breakthrough games are on an "Overlord" scale e.g. 12 medals to win.

      
sam1812
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Tue, 11 May 2010 01:41
Hi, Stig --

If you're playing with two Command Card decks and you don't have a second Air Pack, you only have 2 Air Sorties.

[Edit: The above statement is false. See below.]

[Updated on: Tue, 11 May 2010 04:52]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Tue, 11 May 2010 02:31
sam1812 wrote on Mon, 10 May 2010 16:41

Hi, Stig --

If you're playing with two Command Card decks and you don't have a second Air Pack, you only have 2 Air Sorties.


Actually, if he ordered 2 extra decks he could have 4 Air Sorties because each of the decks comes with 2. Cool
      
sam1812
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Tue, 11 May 2010 04:51
Yup, Ras, you're absolutely right. I stand corrected. Embarassed
      
RBorg
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Tue, 11 May 2010 06:06
No Air Sorties cards in a standard Memoir '44 Command card deck.

Richard Borg
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Tue, 11 May 2010 06:14
RBorg wrote on Mon, 10 May 2010 21:06

No Air Sorties cards in a standard Memoir '44 Command card deck.

Richard Borg


Well, Sam. I guess I'm the one who stands corrected! Very Happy

I've never bought the extra decks from DoW (though I have some on their way) but I thought they came with Air Sortie cards. I guess not. Razz

Edit: I just looked in the store and the new Command cards from DoW do indeed come with 2 Air Sortie cards each. So if a player has the base game (which doesn't come with Air Sortie Cards, as Richard pointed out), but does have the Air Pack and an extra deck from DoW, they could have 4 Air Sortie cards. If they have 2 decks from DoW and the Air Pack, a player could end up with 6 Air Sortie cards!! Shocked

Sounds like a lot of planes on the board... Cool

[Updated on: Tue, 11 May 2010 06:21]

      
ad79
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Tue, 11 May 2010 06:56
Ok, guys. To clarify this. I have bought 2 extra command card decks form DOW and they include matching Air Sorties, so when I shuffle them together I get 4 Air Sorties.

Now, any answer to what I do with all those cards?
Should I build a Memoir Card house? Rolling Eyes

Stig Morten
      
Bayernkini
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Tue, 11 May 2010 08:12
Quote:

Now, any answer to what I do with all those cards?
Should I build a Memoir Card house?


Now you can order a complete "Bombercommand" and blow away
your enemy Twisted Evil
      
Mighty Jim 83
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Tue, 11 May 2010 08:18
When you order replacement decks they come with 2 air sortie cards each. I'm sure many of us can back that up from experience.

So perhaps Richard's point is that the deck of cards as composed for the game doesn't include Air Sorties, and the fact that you've got piles and piles of them is irrelevant, and you should only add none or two as the scenario dictates?

...I accidentally ordered 4 replacement decks instead of 2, so together with the Air Pack, I've got 10 Air sorties!
      
Achtung Panzer
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Tue, 11 May 2010 15:19
I worked on the simple basis of proportion. Standard single game with Air Rules = 2 AS cards. Overlord / Breakthrough with two decks = 4 AS cards.

And of course Air Rules include AS equivalents so in Overlord / Breakthrough that's 2 x AP cards to boot!

Applying Blitz / Air Strike rules makes the skies even more crowded.

Have I got this wrong? Rolling Eyes

[Updated on: Tue, 11 May 2010 15:21]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Tue, 11 May 2010 15:36
Achtung Panzer wrote on Tue, 11 May 2010 06:19


And of course Air Rules include AS equivalents so in Overlord / Breakthrough that's 2 x AP cards to boot!

Applying Blitz / Air Strike rules makes the skies even more crowded.

Have I got this wrong? Rolling Eyes




You're on the right track. The question comes from where those Air Sortie Cards start. Razz

You're right, though, the skies will be full if you're using that many Air cards...it could make for interesting battles! Very Happy
      
gheintze
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Tue, 11 May 2010 17:03
ad79 wrote on Mon, 10 May 2010 09:01

Another question.
This time about how to handle Air Rules with 2 command card decks as DOW recommends for more exciting play.
Stig Morten



Where is this recommendation? Is it only for Breakthrough games?

Thanks,

Geoff
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Tue, 11 May 2010 17:24
gheintze wrote on Tue, 11 May 2010 08:03

ad79 wrote on Mon, 10 May 2010 09:01

Another question.
This time about how to handle Air Rules with 2 command card decks as DOW recommends for more exciting play.
Stig Morten



Where is this recommendation? Is it only for Breakthrough games?

Thanks,

Geoff


Yep, this recommendation is for Breakthrough battles. It's on the front cover of the Breakthrough Kit booklet but was also posted here on the forum. Cool
      
RBorg
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Tue, 11 May 2010 19:56
The original replacement Memoir card decks did not have Air Sortie cards.

I have not had the need for any replacement card decks in the last two years Wink
In addition I never received one of these new replacement decks, so I am very sorry if my comment caused any confusion.

Richard Borg
      
ad79
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Tue, 11 May 2010 21:17
RBorg wrote on Tue, 11 May 2010 19:56

The original replacement Memoir card decks did not have Air Sortie cards.

I have not had the need for any replacement card decks in the last two years Wink
In addition I never received one of these new replacement decks, so I am very sorry if my comment caused any confusion.

Richard Borg



No problem, Richard.

I got more replies to this question than I expected.
I was only trying to find out if it was a "correct" way to handle this situation.

Great game you have made.

Stig Morten
      
Achtung Panzer
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Wed, 12 May 2010 14:50
RBorg wrote on Tue, 11 May 2010 18:56

The original replacement Memoir card decks did not have Air Sortie cards.

I have not had the need for any replacement card decks in the last two years Wink

Richard Borg


I like the extravagance of a dedicated 2 x deck just for Breakthrough games, to go alongside my Overlord Expansion deck and original deck for standard games. No post-game sorting necessary! Very Happy

      
Maimed
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Wed, 12 May 2010 17:17
I live in Germany, if I order thru DOW , does it come from the states or from the EU? ( Customs duty are a bithc plus having to take tike to go thru the picking it up etc) so I would rather order from an EU state

so where will it come from ( USA/EU)?
      
nemesszili
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Wed, 12 May 2010 17:39
If you order from the EU Store, it will come from Germany, if from the US Store, then from the States.
      
Achtung Panzer
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Wed, 12 May 2010 19:57
nemesszili wrote on Wed, 12 May 2010 16:39

If you order from the EU Store, it will come from Germany, if from the US Store, then from the States.


Not only from Germany, but delivered via DPD.

      
nemesszili
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Wed, 12 May 2010 20:10
DPD can deliver your order in 4 days to Romania, while some local orders take 2 weeks to arrive to their destinations (this was back in January)!

Somehow, confirmation of the shipping of my order didn't arrive this time...
      
boyd the brave
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Fri, 14 May 2010 23:57
Tiger tanks are used in: Noville to Foy (Western front) and Battle of Prokhorovka (Eastern Front)
      
Bayernkini
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Wed, 19 May 2010 16:27
OK, the scenarios are online now... but...

Scenario 3 - Sword Beach:
British Commonwealth Forces command rules are in effect, for British units (Nation 5 - British Commonwealth Forces).

This rule are only in the online scenario, not in printed book!



[Updated on: Wed, 19 May 2010 16:34]

      
ad79
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Wed, 19 May 2010 18:57
Bayernkini wrote on Wed, 19 May 2010 16:27

OK, the scenarios are online now... but...

Scenario 3 - Sword Beach:
British Commonwealth Forces command rules are in effect, for British units (Nation 5 - British Commonwealth Forces).

This rule are only in the online scenario, not in printed book!






Since this scenario is supposed to use only the basegame, I think it is supposed to be played without the BCF rules.

Stig Morten

[Updated on: Wed, 19 May 2010 18:59]

      
nemesszili
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Thu, 20 May 2010 21:47
Received my copy today afternoon (had a fascinating trip to Mortain on the back of a Pz IV Very Happy) and I have some questions:

1. If 2 Air Sorties are handed to the Allied player in the "Breakthrough to Mortain" scenario, the remaining 2 (I'm using an OL deck to have 2 decks) will remain in the deck? And if they do, and the Axis player draws one of these, can he still play it as an Air Sortie?

("If the Axis player draws an Air Power - because Air Rules are in effect, I suppose that goes for Air Sorties as well - during the game, he must play it as an Artillery Bombard instead").

2. Will there be more Breakthrough scenarios (both official and custom)? Very Happy
      
Bayernkini
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Fri, 21 May 2010 21:44
Another question:
Scenario 4 - Breakthrough to the Beach:

Can the Axis reinforcements be targeted, before they are ordered.
And counts the first(starting) hex as first movement hex?

      
ad79
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Fri, 21 May 2010 23:14
Bayernkini wrote on Fri, 21 May 2010 21:44

Another question:
Scenario 4 - Breakthrough to the Beach:

Can the Axis reinforcements be targeted, before they are ordered.
And counts the first(starting) hex as first movement hex?




More questions for this scenario.

Why no British Commowealth Force rules in this one?

Are Allied reinforcements British or American?

And finally. The online scenario lists 15 medals as win conditions in the graphic representation, but 12 in the written Victory condition and also in the booklet.

Stig Morten
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Mon, 24 May 2010 15:51
Any other questions about the new Breakthrough Kit expansion? I know that some players will be getting the expansion this week so take a look through and figure out any questions that haven't already been asked... Cool

I'm trying to finish up a new version of the Official FAQ so it can be available in early June, so toss your questions either on this forum (if they pertain to the Breakthrough Kit) or on the FAQ thread if they are about Memoir '44 in general.

Have a great Monday, everyone! Smile
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Tue, 25 May 2010 00:55
Bayernkini wrote on Fri, 21 May 2010 12:44

Another question:
Scenario 4 - Breakthrough to the Beach:

Can the Axis reinforcements be targeted, before they are ordered.
And counts the first(starting) hex as first movement hex?




I'll check on the first part of this question but I don't see why the reinforcements couldn't be targeted. They're on the board...they just can't be ordered.

For the second part of your question, you don't spend a movement placing them on the board. So the turn after getting 5 medals (for the Axis player) you can order the reinforcements like they've been part of your forces the whole time. The Allied player has to place them on the baseline as soon as he gets 5 medals and then he can order them the next turn as though they were there all along.

I hope this helps. Cool
      
sam1812
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Tue, 25 May 2010 03:58
So, you're saying that, theoretically, the German reinforcements in Breakthrough To The Beach could be targeted at any time by, for example, a Barrage.

Interesting question: I played Axis in that scenario ove the weekend, and was holding both Armor Assaults early in the game. Since I couldn't order the tanks yet, if I were in a sufficiently urgent situation, could I have used an Armor Assault to order a unit of my choice?
      
ad79
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Tue, 25 May 2010 15:07
Bayernkini wrote on Wed, 05 May 2010 21:10

Next Question:
Scenario 7 - The Surrender of Elsters Column:

Quote:

The Allied player alone is able to conduct Air Strikes (Artions 3 - Air Strikes).

The "Air Power" card cannot be played by the Allied player. If he draws it or receives it at game start,
he must immediately discard it and draw a new one.


Allies can use Airstrikes but no Airpower card...
Is this correct or an missprint



This has now been corrected on the online scenario page, as it was indeed a mistake.
It is supposted to read:
The "Air Power" card cannot be played by the Axis player.
      
Achtung Panzer
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Tue, 25 May 2010 20:52
sam1812 wrote on Tue, 25 May 2010 02:58

So, you're saying that, theoretically, the German reinforcements in Breakthrough To The Beach could be targeted at any time by, for example, a Barrage.


That would be my understanding. They are already to go, just waiting for Hitler to get out of bed and issue their orders Laughing .
      
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Tue, 25 May 2010 23:24
sam1812 wrote on Mon, 24 May 2010 18:58

So, you're saying that, theoretically, the German reinforcements in Breakthrough To The Beach could be targeted at any time by, for example, a Barrage.


That's exactly what I'm saying. They're on the bridge and amazingly they don't have a cloaking device or force field around them! Laughing

Quote:

Interesting question: I played Axis in that scenario ove the weekend, and was holding both Armor Assaults early in the game. Since I couldn't order the tanks yet, if I were in a sufficiently urgent situation, could I have used an Armor Assault to order a unit of my choice?


That is an interesting question. I would say that since you have tanks on the board you could not use the cards for other orders, but I can see the argument that you don't control them until after 5 medals... I'll check on that one.
      
Mighty Jim 83
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Wed, 26 May 2010 14:36
rasmussen81 wrote on Tue, 25 May 2010 22:24


Quote:

Interesting question: I played Axis in that scenario ove the weekend, and was holding both Armor Assaults early in the game. Since I couldn't order the tanks yet, if I were in a sufficiently urgent situation, could I have used an Armor Assault to order a unit of my choice?


That is an interesting question. I would say that since you have tanks on the board you could not use the cards for other orders, but I can see the argument that you don't control them until after 5 medals... I'll check on that one.


But then, the card does say "if you do not command any armour units..." which is the position the axis player is in prior to 5 medals. Would seem logical that he could use it as an 'order 1 of your choice'
      
Achtung Panzer
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Wed, 26 May 2010 21:37
Mighty Jim 83 wrote on Wed, 26 May 2010 13:36

rasmussen81 wrote on Tue, 25 May 2010 22:24


Quote:

Interesting question: I played Axis in that scenario ove the weekend, and was holding both Armor Assaults early in the game. Since I couldn't order the tanks yet, if I were in a sufficiently urgent situation, could I have used an Armor Assault to order a unit of my choice?


That is an interesting question. I would say that since you have tanks on the board you could not use the cards for other orders, but I can see the argument that you don't control them until after 5 medals... I'll check on that one.


But then, the card does say "if you do not command any armour units..." which is the position the axis player is in prior to 5 medals. Would seem logical that he could use it as an 'order 1 of your choice'


Not sure about that. The units are are under your command (i.e. in terms of reporting lines), just not yet ordered / activated. They are in fact simply waiting for your orders. To my mind this is different to not physically having armoured units on the board. So I would so "no" to the idea of using Armoured Assault for 1 unit.

[Updated on: Wed, 26 May 2010 21:37]

      
stevens
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Thu, 27 May 2010 01:08
I agree with Achtung. This is not a general rule, but a scenario specific rule to mimic the fact that there was delay in ordering these armored units. I believe that you will have to wait to get five medals in order these units with the Armor Assault card for later or discard to get another card. It is built in frustration. It is intended for you to be frustrated, so enjoy it!

Shocked Shocked Shocked

[Updated on: Thu, 27 May 2010 01:10]

      
tank commander
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Fri, 28 May 2010 12:11
ad79 wrote on Sun, 09 May 2010 03:19


What happens if the Germans have to retreat THROUGH one of the permanent medal hexes? Will the Germans get the medal?



Hmmm, good question. It depends on when control of the hex is determined and if retreating is the same as moving(being a Permanent Objective Medal may make a difference?).

Of cousre one can obtain a Temp objective medal if one of his units is retreated INTO such a hex.
      
ad79
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Fri, 28 May 2010 14:49
tank commander wrote on Fri, 28 May 2010 12:11

ad79 wrote on Sun, 09 May 2010 03:19


What happens if the Germans have to retreat THROUGH one of the permanent medal hexes? Will the Germans get the medal?



Hmmm, good question. It depends on when control of the hex is determined and if retreating is the same as moving(being a Permanent Objective Medal may make a difference?).

Of cousre one can obtain a Temp objective medal if one of his units is retreated INTO such a hex.


Yes, there are more unclear cases with these permanent medal objectives.

Do you have to end your movement on it to capture it?

Have you captured the objective:
If you move THROUGH it with BEL?
If you are retreated THROUGH it? (The answer to this one has to have some correlation with the next one.)
If you are retreated onto it? (The question here is when it gets captured in this case? When you enter it with a retreat or when your turn starts?)

If we read the rule just as it is it probably is very clear:
Permanent Medal Objective - The Victory Medal in this
objective hex is captured and permanently gained the
moment a unit of the appropriate side enters this hex. The
medal is not returned or put back in play, even if the unit later
vacates this hex.
From the Air Pack rules.

It says in the emphasised part that it is when it ENTERS the hex. So it doesn't have to MOVE into the hex, only ENTER it.
That should indicate that retreats onto/through a Permanent Medal objective hex should be good enough to capture the objective. Moving THROUGH it with BEL should also be enough to capture it.

That is the way i have landed on this issue now after thining about it for a while. If Richard or DOW tells me otherwise i will play it the other way.

Stig Morten
      
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Fri, 28 May 2010 16:52
Is gaining an objective considered a battle action? If so it would happen after movement and require the unit to stop.

It seems more realistic when gaining / taking an objective to at least spend some time consolidating it. An example would be holding a bridge, though I can see that this sits better with being a temporary medal objective than permanent.

Gaining a medal by retreating (fleeing if you don't stop on the hex) seems like gamesmanship.
      
sam1812
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Re:Breakthrough-Kit Questions Sat, 29 May 2010 00:53
That's how I read the rule, too. So, though I intuitively would think the unit should have to stop on the hex (as with Temporary Medal Objectives), or actively move onto and stop on the hex (as with mines), I agree that, as the rule is worded, all it takes is a footprint.

ad79 wrote on Fri, 28 May 2010 08:49

It says in the emphasised part that it is when it ENTERS the hex. So it doesn't have to MOVE into the hex, only ENTER it.
That should indicate that retreats onto/through a Permanent Medal objective hex should be good enough to capture the objective. Moving THROUGH it with BEL should also be enough to capture it.

[Updated on: Sat, 29 May 2010 00:59]

      
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