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Muddaihrsohn
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Tue, 07 September 2010 14:34
OLE Masimo schrieb am Mon, 30 August 2010 12:20

it just steals all our time when someone who did not get his oppinion through one year pulls the same thing out the next year (as Mudda tried as well)

You all smoke too many peace pipes, I dont get why so many 68ers show solidarity with the current situation.
Didnt 2010, 09, 08 AND 07 show the exigency of protecting the teams that are observable in a mayor number of games cause of ELO?! We had cheaters in nearly every tourney around the lobby, we had "creep to #1-spot with any help" -idiots and last but not least we EXACTLY KNOW about dozens of second accounts here!!! Whats the sense of a tourney to crown the best team, if THIS team at the end is not only playing the clashes but needs to hire a lobby detective for the games... By the way, we did Rolling Eyes - no lie...

its only a matter of time the NC will spotlight the next cheater in this rule-buildup... WATCH OUT CHEATERS! Twisted Evil

Oh hey - is this the reason why so many people wish "good luck" at the start of games?

Finally a big "GRATS" to any who misses this phrase in my games! Laughing
      
OLE Masimo
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Tue, 07 September 2010 15:13
Mudda - in your enumeration you forgot to mention the tourney quitters that just steal out of the event once they got beaten up 0-10 in the first match ...

you also forgot to mention that some of those cheaters were recognized exactly due to the fact that the games were OBSERVABLE - and that a lot qualified players noticed the instance cause they watched.

      
Muddaihrsohn
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Tue, 07 September 2010 15:49
Gosh - I am so what demotivated to suffer those agonies some people spread here... just continue your match Masimo and go and eat some cake with Dea! YOU AT LEAST (as most interested in the lobbys fate) should know why our FED TEAM was cancelled!!! If not ask xsandrax, Dennis or Nayeli, they might explain you, spin doctor ...

My wish for the rest of the lobby: have fun during NC! Let it start folks and I hope for good and thrilling games!

Lord M
      
OLE Masimo
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Tue, 07 September 2010 21:24
I don`t know what you are talking about Mudda - and I don`t care.

I am more than fed up with you self declared cheaterhunter that even gets personal - if you need to clear something with me do that in PMs!

Probably the best is to ask the board/TD for a special rule to have UEG play ONLY closed games! - (who wants to watch their games anyway?) - or maybee Cheatersihrsohn is the only one in your team that has that problem?
      
Sysyphus - Pommard
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Tue, 07 September 2010 21:43
Important question for NC :

Where can i find popcorn ? (always out of it before the end of nc !)

[Updated on: Tue, 07 September 2010 21:47]

      
Muddaihrsohn
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Tue, 07 September 2010 21:59
OLE Masimo schrieb am Tue, 07 September 2010 21:24

I don`t know what you are talking about Mudda - and I don`t care.
Ask dea1!
OLE Masimo schrieb am Tue, 07 September 2010 21:24

I am more than fed up with you self declared cheaterhunter that even gets personal - if you need to clear something with me do that in PMs!
I wont. Dont worry!
OLE Masimo schrieb am Tue, 07 September 2010 21:24


Probably the best is to ask the board/TD for a special rule to have UEG play ONLY closed games! - (who wants to watch their games anyway?) - or maybee Cheatersihrsohn is the only one in your team that has that problem?
Whoooo irony is so what your best strength. "Only one"? Laughing
      
Nayeli
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Tue, 07 September 2010 22:05
No Message Body

[Updated on: Tue, 07 September 2010 22:19]

      
OLE Masimo
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Tue, 07 September 2010 22:10
UEG-ihrsohn schrieb am Tue, 07 September 2010 21:59

Whoooo irony is so what your best strength. "Only one"? Laughing


I am glad I have one Laughing you`re still searching yours, right?
      
Robin Hood
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Tue, 07 September 2010 22:35
3 TDs'???

I Have the very video....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTUi7mYAqTY

.... hope they deal with the cheaters like this
Very Happy
Greets
Robin
P.S. I am getting to like the names Lord Muddiahrson and Cheatiahrson.... awesome.. love the NC but have no popcorn left already Sad
      
Tyrana
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Tue, 07 September 2010 23:21
is that mudda, nayeli & robin in the video link? Rolling Eyes Very Happy
      
2Cutter
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Tue, 07 September 2010 23:47
A lot of qualified players observed the cheating games, are you kidding me masimo???????
The only one who called it by name, was me, isn`t it so?????
With endless discussions, or not?????
Better to shut up, yes, yes, the proove is never given 100%, only 99,9%. Sure.
This community don`t need such lame td`s.
Well, i am very noisy of YOUR answer jenack. Laughing
      
Muddaihrsohn
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Wed, 08 September 2010 00:07
Uuuuuh rough wind is coming up... I wish i read this Nayeli stuff before it was cancelled... darn!
      
dea1
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Wed, 08 September 2010 00:16
Would everyone please cool down here!

I'm happy that we have Masimo organizing everything - otherwise there would be no NC.

Rules are, as they are - wrong timing to discuss them, once a tournament has started.

If you like to play with rough wind,
need more popcorn,
want to complain about lame TDs, dea's posts or the weather of tomorrow
please move to Erwin Dekker or any other thread

... my 1/3 cent as current 1/3 TD
THX!
      
2Cutter
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Wed, 08 September 2010 01:30
And usual or what ?????? Laughing
      
thekid
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Wed, 08 September 2010 02:00
UEG-ihrsohn wrote on Tue, 07 September 2010 08:34its only a matter of time the NC will spotlight the next cheater in this rule-buildup... [size=3

WATCH OUT CHEATERS![/size] Twisted Evil


Hey at least you get a one week respite to start the tourney without having to worry about cheats. Smile
      
Lucullupus
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Wed, 08 September 2010 15:43
Till now, bad mood about cheaters, bad behaviour and exaggerated aggressiveness came during our NC. Sad
This year it already starts before the first NC round. Is this a sign of progress? Evil or Very Mad
Then it's time to cancel the NC!
      
Jac_
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Wed, 08 September 2010 16:46
Hey 2Cutter

IF you got something to say why don't you? Or shall we MAKE A DEAL???

Now, why everybody calm down, or as Lucu says. Its time to .......
      
JenAck
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Wed, 08 September 2010 17:34
my answer is the same as few weeks ago....

If someone believes that he/she can do a better job being TD, than he/she should take action and not only post words. Btw, I think that most people underestimate the work that comes with such a job. I also don't like some of the rules, i.e. the starting rules in connection with a tie. It could be handeled much simpler. But this is the wrong time to discuss this. Such things must be dealt with right after the NC, or in spring. So everyone can think about solutions and can participate in the discussion.

so let us look forward..
@ all NC Teams have fun and interesting games
      
Robin Hood
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Wed, 08 September 2010 17:37
So..... having just read ALL this thread...
I am no wiser as to who to send my line-up to before the deadline Rolling Eyes
Greets
Very Happy
Robin
Ok just read the OTHER thread LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Laughing Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

[Updated on: Wed, 08 September 2010 17:40]

      
thekid
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Wed, 08 September 2010 19:24
SMP-JenAck wrote on Wed, 08 September 2010 11:34

my answer is the same as few weeks ago....

If someone believes that he/she can do a better job being TD, than he/she should take action and not only post words. Btw, I think that most people underestimate the work that comes with such a job. I also don't like some of the rules, i.e. the starting rules in connection with a tie. It could be handeled much simpler. But this is the wrong time to discuss this. Such things must be dealt with right after the NC, or in spring. So everyone can think about solutions and can participate in the discussion.

so let us look forward..
@ all NC Teams have fun and interesting games



Well you're just plain wrong. I did bring it up in April and just got brushed aside. I even made a pledge to uphold it which NO ONE else did. Luckily there were 2 other classy people who DID IT, without being asked, when I tied them as player 2. And one of them was Marschall Vorwarts in the final game of the Europe final. How many of you would have done the same thing? NOBODY, you'd all run over your own mother for a nickel.

You let people vote and half of them are too concerned about their 2nd account they don't write anything cause they don't know who they're logged in as. And the rest are like everyone else in the world lazy and prone to inaction - Let's just keep it the way it is. And then the others who just wanna hear themselves talk - zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

It's simple. There should be no discussion, it's the right thing to do, then DO IT. But you won't and you'll be back here with the same garbage next year.



thekid wrote on Tue, 20 April 2010 00:45

I do have a question, it's inferred in the rules but didn't see it anywhere explicitly and if it's not explicit it can and always does cause problems. Maybe I missed it but if not here goes:

A match with a tie game in it, has swapped starters all the way to game 8, it's now 3-3-1, in my opinion starts should keep swapping to avoid the possible 5-3 start disadvantage. The rules say random on 7th/9th game, so by inference it shouldn't be random but isn't explicit, it should be random if it's 9th, 11th, 13th etc., but didn't see anywhere specifically mentioning this.

And lastly what should make it even more obvious is the vote that the people had to keep swapping starters. If say it's 3-3-1, and you now decide a random start, then the swapping of starters has conferred an advantage in a match where there is a tie to the player who started game 1. For instance if it's 3-2-1, player one goes first with a chance to close it out and then gets a random start if he loses, and at 2-3-1, player one goes first to try to even it up and then gets a random start in the final game. Player one is always at the advantage, that doesn't make sense. The only way to make it fair is to continue swapping unless there is an even # of ties which makes the final game an odd #, 7th, 9th, 11th etc and thereby a random start. So to me its obvious but lets make it obvious in the rules.







AGT-DN wrote on Wed, 21 April 2010 03:04

The TDs see no reason to discuss - the starting rule is clear and remains as it is:

-> FIRST GAME WITH RANDOM STARTING PLAYER
-> FOLLOWING GAMES WITH ALTERNING STARTING PLAYER (EVEN AFTER TIED GAMES) TILL THE DECISIVE GAME
-> THE DECISIVE GAME IS THE GAME PLAYED AT 3-3 (IN BEST-OF-SEVEN MATCHES; 1ST ROUND TO ROUND OF 16) OR AT 4-4 (IN BEST-OF-NINE MATCHES; QUARTERFINAL TO FINAL) AND IT IS STARTED RANDOMLY REGARDLESS TO THE NUMBER OF DRAW GAMES DURING THE MATCH.
-> IN THE CASE THE DECISIVE GAME ENDS TIED THE NEXT GAME(S) WILL BE PLAYED WITH ALTERNING STARTING PLAYER UNTIL ONE PLAYER WINS A GAME


This is NOT about the question whether the starting rule is fair or there could be a better one or yadayadayada...(the last NC showed, there won't be a huge majority for one proposal anyway and discussing during a tournament about rule-changing leads to nothing but confusion) - the players decided via poll about the main points of these tournaments including the rules...

POLL RESULT 3a:
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/8553/77688121.jpg
So 38 players endorsed last year's rules - only 2 players thought about changing the rules --> BUT: NONE OF THESE TWO PLAYERS CONTACTED THE TDs CONCERNING THEIR IDEAS!

POLL RESULT 3b:
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/6756/94488042.jpg
The majority of 31 players supported the rule concerning ties erps proposed last year - only 8 players wanted to ignore tied games completely (btw. with this option the discussion wouldn't exist) --> BUT ALSO HERE: NO ONE CONTACTED THE TDs!

...and so the full starting rule remains the same as last year:

erps schrieb am Sun, 03 May 2009 13:10

Hi

We - the TDs - have decided that one rule needs a clarification:

The starting order after a tie!

We have chosen the "fair" solution.

Tied games did not count but the starting player alternate every time. If the last game is a tie, the starting player alternates.

A tie means that the "non starting player" played well enough to earn the right to start the next game.

Still, the "probably" last game of a match is determined randomly. If this game is a tie, the starting player alternates till a non-tie game happens.

The rule is in effect from now on for all Single Player Tournaments organized by me or using my generic rules.

Have fun.



Maybe thekid is right and this is not a fair rule but the issue is only a 'special case' and this is neither the place nor the time to start discussions regarding changing rules.

dea1 & DN

PS: To clarify I updated the rules on Tiki concerning starting right after a "decisive" game ended tied (this rule was only written down in forum).



      
dea1
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Wed, 08 September 2010 21:26
Kid, these are the SPWC/EMC/SMC rules.

For NC it WAS changed last year during NC (in effect in the KO already) because somebody (maybe you?) pointed out the problem.
For NC we have
Odd games random
Even games the player who didn't start the corresponding odd game
Regardless of ties (sounting games played not point won)

This way the 5-3 advantage you mentioned cannot happen.


Why did we not change that in SWPC after your PM? Because there was a vote before where people said they wanted to keep the old SPWC rules.
      
OLE Masimo
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Wed, 08 September 2010 21:44
thanks dea - i admit I was totally confused reading kids post - to me it was as if we had that corrected ... (or did we not???) - I think I am messed up now Embarassed

maybe you did not check the rules before you posted, thekid? or is that not what you mean either?
      
thekid
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Thu, 09 September 2010 05:34
Why on earth did we have a tournament after one with the right way to do it and then let the people who have no clue what they are doing vote on it?

Someone should just go and change them for next years tournaments right now.
      
AGT-DN
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Fri, 10 September 2010 20:28


waits for you to check the latest NATION CUP NEWS - and please edit if you know a result or scheduled match... ALL TIMES CEST there!!!

[Updated on: Sat, 11 September 2010 22:38]

      
AGT-DN
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Fri, 10 September 2010 20:30
TIME ZONE INFORMATION

All deadlines end 9 pm UTC, this means for

EUROPE (Daylight Saving Time)
EEST = UTC+3 --> FINLAND 12 AM
CEST = UTC+2 --> CENTRAL EUROPE 11 PM
BST = UTC+1 --> GREAT BRITAIN 10 PM
WEST = UTC+1 --> PORTUGAL 10 PM

AMERICA (Daylight Saving Time)
EDT = UTC-4 --> New York, Detroit, Toronto... 5 PM
CDT = UTC-5 --> Chicago, Winnipeg... 4 PM
MDT = UTC-6 --> Denver, Edmonton... 3 PM
MST = UTC-7 --> Phoenix... 2 PM
PDT = UTC-7 --> Los Angeles, Seattle, Vancoucer... 2 PM
AKDT = UTC-8 --> Anchorage... 1 PM
HST = UTC-10 --> Honolulu... 11 AM




Daylight Saving Time ends

EUROPE
FINLAND Oct 31 (3am=2am)
CENTRAL EUROPE Oct 31 (3am=2am)
GREAT BRITAIN Oct 31 (2am=1am)
PORTUGAL Oct 31 (1am=12am)

AMERICA
EASTERN TIME --> New York, Detroit, Toronto... NOV 07 (2am=1am)
CENTRAL TIME --> Chicago, Winnipeg... NOV 07 (2am=1am)
MOUNTAIN TIME --> Denver, Edmonton... NOV 07 (2am=1am)
PACIFIC TIME --> Los Angeles, Seattle, Vancoucer... NOV 07 (2am=1am)
ALASKA TIME --> Anchorage... NOV 07 (2am=1am)
HAWAII TIME --> Honolulu NO CHANGE

Please check, if there are any errors...
      
Elric - Sancerre
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Fri, 10 September 2010 20:41
Thx Dom for precision about time zones.

Many (most ?) of us are in " CEST " time zone, and more (even those which are not in this time zone) give information about their matches in the forum, by using it.

So, could it be also the same in Ticki pages (instead of UTC), like in the previous years ?
I think there could be less confusion than with UTC... no ?
      
AGT-DN
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Fri, 10 September 2010 20:49
..I don't care if we use Anchorage time on Tiki pages Laughing

If especially American friends are okay with using CEST there, I will change!
      
ommie
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Fri, 10 September 2010 20:59
Can we please use the CEST and CET times? I have no clue what UTC is and it's hard enough already to figure out europe time. Smile


      
AGT-DN
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Sat, 18 September 2010 11:31
Ticki team pages are completed, please >>CHECK YOUR TEAM<< and post any error...
      
RFAD - Saint-Emilion
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Sat, 18 September 2010 16:31
as usual : great work Dom Surprised
      
JenAck
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Sun, 19 September 2010 13:48
yes DOM great work,thx

I think we all can help Dom to make his work with the tiki in less time.

I've noticed that some of their nc resultat postet not or only so
TRUE Mary vs SMP-Häxxli 3:2(my mistake Embarassed )


presumably it would be so much easier for Dom?
results:
TD blubes - OLE sebbo
106 - 91
113 - 84
113 - 114
110 - 127
72 - 112


I think we owe it to Dom him his work to make it as easy as possible.
      
AGT-DN
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Sun, 19 September 2010 14:54
Thx, but no need to put in the games' results in here at all - I extract them from the players' history with an excel macro, no big thing...
      
JenAck
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Sun, 19 September 2010 14:59
ok Smile
so my mistake is no more so big^^
      
AGT-DN
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Sun, 26 September 2010 11:06
Check the >>Statistics Corner<< on Ticki!
      
Sysyphus - Pommard
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Mon, 11 October 2010 21:28
ITA_Qorlas écrit le Mon, 06 September 2010 18:00

My idea,

to consider the best second place the match with the 7th placed team will not be considered for the 2nd team in group C.

(probably Dom wrote exactly the same thing Wink )



I'm writing here as a Board Rep. here.

Do we have a definitive rule for that ?

Shall we not count the results from the games against the 7th ? 6th and 7th ? or taking into account results only vs the top 4 of any groups ?

We are just wondering, now that we are reaching a crucial point of the tourney and will probably have a hard fight for this 4th seat.

Thx for helping !

[Updated on: Tue, 12 October 2010 14:46]

      
onyx puffin
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Mon, 11 October 2010 21:50
Sysy brings up a great question, and may I ask someone to start a thread about play-off structure. I am not sure of the current rules on placements, and how they will (or are supposed to work) with the format team numbers we have.

One consideration on tie-breaker factors: Since there is an uneven set for group C, could percentage be used in tiebreaking formula?

[Updated on: Mon, 11 October 2010 21:50]

      
Qorlas
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Mon, 11 October 2010 23:54
We can use the same rule we used last year for 21 teams sending 12 teams to the playoff:
----------------
21: (1,6,7,12,13,18,19), (2,5,8,11,14,17,20) and (3,4,9,10,15,16,21), 11 weeks
4 teams advance per group, the group with the best 2nd comer will be renamed to group D, the next groups circular to E and F, then the pairings for first rd KO will be:
1E-bye, 3F-3D, 2D-bye, 2F-4E ---- 1F-bye, 2E-4D, 1D-bye, 3E-4F
best 2nd comer will be determined according to the tiebreaker rules (13.7)
Quarterfinal: 1Evs3F-3D; 2Dvs2F-4E;;; 1Fvs2E-4D; 1Dvs3E-4F

-----------------

We have just to determine the best second. My suggestion:
discard all the games played by the 7th placed team in group C to calculate the best 2nd placed team.
I don't like the use of percentage because being second with a 5-1 record would be better of being 2nd with a 4-1 record but the difference would be just the win against the 7th placed team.

Q.
      
dea1
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Tue, 12 October 2010 01:27
Let's try to clarify here

My understanding is:

For determining who is 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th in group C (and therefore qualifies for KO) ALL CLASHES COUNT of course.

Just after that - only in order to determine the best 2nd - we count the result of the 2nd placed team again without this team's clash against the 7th.

It might be, that this team wouldn't be 2nd if the original calculation was made without the results agains the 7th - that doesn't matter, they still stay 2nd. The results without 7th are ONLY used for the comparison to the runner ups of the other groups.

No idea if that's the perfect solution, but I don't think it's very crucial, so I'm fine with it.
      
Qorlas
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Tue, 12 October 2010 01:59
agree with Dea
      
Sysyphus - Pommard
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Re:NC 2010 what u need to know/want to ask ... Tue, 12 October 2010 02:24
Yeah, there's no willing to not count the clash vs 7th for the final classification of the group.
It's clear that it only concerns to best 2nd team.
Just wanted to know what was the rule and checking if there was any possibility to be best 2nd or not Smile
(to know if there's a need cheer for TIC and Tus vs AT or not Razz )

[Updated on: Tue, 12 October 2010 02:29]

      
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