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numquam retro
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Bitter Resitance in WinterWars Fri, 05 November 2010 11:12
Hello again, one more question about "ignoring flags":

The new combat cards offer the possibility to use (most of) the cards as an Bitter Resistance combat card. The roolbook titels:

Bitter Resistance action: The unit you play Bitter Resistance on may ignore a flag rolled against it.

1. Is this rule also cumulative (like in case of increasing number of rolled battle dice) so i.e. play three combat cards as Bitter Resistance on the same unit => the unit will ignore the first three flags?

2. In addition to our discussion of Artillery and ignoring flags when attacking (http://www.daysofwonder.com/de/msg/?th=20474&start=0) I think, that this rule counts to the unit's inherent resistance against one flag and would always remain intact, even in case of "Ground Support", Barrage-Card or Airpower-Card (like the japanese or italian artillery units).

Am i right?

Thank you very much for your endurace in answering my questions Smile



      
stevens
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Re:Bitter Resitance in WinterWars Fri, 05 November 2010 11:46
QUESTION #1

Are you right? I believe personally that you are regarding your thoughts on the Bitter Resistance Card Play, but that is for DOW to clarify specifically.

I agree with your argument based on two things:
P. 5 Winter Wars states:

1.
Quote:

Bitter Resistance action: The unit you play Bitter Resistance on may ignore a flag rolled against it.

2.
Quote:

There is no limit to the number of Combat cards a
player may hold or the number of Combat cards he
may play during his, or an opponent's, turn.


So if you have 3 Flags rolled against you and you play 3 combat cards as BITTER RESISTANCE, that should nullify the three flags.

The basic discussion will arise based on the issue of whether in the case of the AIPOWER or BARRAGE card which rule trumps the other. These cards both state as the last line on each card:
Quote:

Flags may not be ignored.


Some may argue that the Command Card Rule trumps the Combat Card Rule. My argument in that case would again agree with you. You are not "ignoring" the FLAGS, you are "redeeming" them with each of your combat cards.

So enjoy the game and play on as you have until further discussion on the Forum either validates or negates your decision. Smile

QUESTION #2

I think the official answer in the case of a unit ignoring a flag based on it's inherent resistance is limited.

The RULES clearly state that a Japanese infantry if attacked by an AIRPOWER CARD or a BARRAGE card must retreat, despite the fact that he has [inherent resistance] the ability to ignore the first flag tossed against him.

P.31 FAQ
Quote:

Q. May Japanese Infantry ignore Flags from a Barrage or Air Power Command card?
A. No. Command cards that state "Flags may not be ignored" will still force Japanese Infantry units to retreat. This includes Strafing Airplanes.


So in the case of these cards, the Japanese, the Italian Artillery, etc. must still retreat when they are played. And if you are STRAFED as part of an Air Action you must also retreat.

As far as whether you have to retreat if GROUND SUPPORT is used as Air Action, may still be in debate. At least by me... Laughing Laughing Laughing
I am still considering the fact that since it is an Air Action just like STRAFING that it should bear the same application of not only nullifying Terrain Protections, but also "inherent resistance". But that is something for DOW to decide.


I hope this is helpful. Don't be surprised if you get some different opinions from others on the forum.

[Updated on: Fri, 05 November 2010 12:12]

      
sam1812
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Re:Bitter Resitance in WinterWars Fri, 05 November 2010 12:51
Personally, I'm inclined to wait a week for the actual package to arrive, to see whether anything else in there answers it, but for the moment, I'll throw all caution to the wind, anyway.

Bitter Resistance seems to be the flip side of the Street Fight action in the Eastern Combat deck. You can play 3 of them on the same unit and get +3 dice. If you play it on a TFH, you get +1 for the TFH and +1 for the Street Fight.

There's no doubt in my mind that you can play multiple Bitter Resistance cards to ignore multiple flags. And there's no doubt in my mind that if the unit is in terrain that protects it against some number of flags already, then Bitter Resistance will permit the unit to ignore an additional flag.

Barrage and Air Power? The Command card says "flags may not be ignored." The WW rule book says Bitter Resistance means "the unit ... may ignore a flag rolled against it." Richard has ruled that the attacker's special privileges always overrule the defender's. (I'm paraphrasing there. I don't recall his exact words.)

Making Bitter Resistance an exception to that universal rule would open the door to other exceptions to that universal rule, which would make things confusing.

So unless there's an official ruling to overrule the previous official ruling, I'd assume that Bitter Resistance can't be played against Barrage, Air Power, or Strafing.
      
sam1812
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Re:Bitter Resitance in WinterWars Fri, 05 November 2010 12:58
Hmmmm...If you're attacking and the enemy Ambushes you, can you play Bitter Resistance to ignore a flag and preserve your attack?

The way the rule book is worded, nothing seems to prevent that.
      
ad79
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Re:Bitter Resitance in WinterWars Fri, 05 November 2010 13:52
sam1812 wrote on Fri, 05 November 2010 12:58

Hmmmm...If you're attacking and the enemy Ambushes you, can you play Bitter Resistance to ignore a flag and preserve your attack?

The way the rule book is worded, nothing seems to prevent that.


I see no reason why you can't. A very good use of Bitter Resistance in my book.

Stig Morten
      
numquam retro
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Re:Bitter Resitance in WinterWars Fri, 05 November 2010 19:59
sam1812 schrieb am Fri, 05 November 2010 12:51

Richard has ruled that the attacker's special privileges always overrule the defender's. (I'm paraphrasing there. I don't recall his exact words.)

Making Bitter Resistance an exception to that universal rule would open the door to other exceptions to that universal rule, which would make things confusing.

So unless there's an official ruling to overrule the previous official ruling, I'd assume that Bitter Resistance can't be played against Barrage, Air Power, or Strafing.


OK, that makes sense, I remember the question of "Sniper vs. Sniper" where Richard told this "overruling" too (attacker s rules will apply instead of the defenders, so a star form a sniper will hit another sniper...).

Thats a good input Cool => roger that!
      
RBorg
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Re:Bitter Resitance in WinterWars Mon, 08 November 2010 04:09
Combat cards in many cases make exceptions and will modify a rule.
We play that Bitter Resistance, when played on a unit allows the unit to ignore one flag.

Richard Borg
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Bitter Resitance in WinterWars Mon, 08 November 2010 08:23
RBorg wrote on Mon, 08 November 2010 07:09

Combat cards in many cases make exceptions and will modify a rule.
We play that Bitter Resistance, when played on a unit allows the unit to ignore one flag.

Richard Borg


Hmm, that makes it sound like you guys play that a unit can ignore one flag from any attack (including Air Power and Barrage). Is that the intention? Smile

It makes sense...if a unit is ordered not to retreat and is willing to put up a Bitter Resistance, it wouldn't retreat no matter what was thrown at it. I like the idea of them staying in place no matter what! Very Happy

[Updated on: Mon, 08 November 2010 09:43]

      
stevens
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Re:Bitter Resitance in WinterWars Mon, 08 November 2010 13:45
There you have it numquam - straight from the creators keyboard.

Thanks for the concise answer Richard.

I am truly enjoying the new Winter Wars and especially the Breakthrough cards with the added movement feature.

[Updated on: Mon, 08 November 2010 13:47]

      
numquam retro
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Re:Bitter Resitance in WinterWars Mon, 08 November 2010 19:44
rasmussen81 schrieb am Mon, 08 November 2010 08:23

It makes sense...if a unit is ordered not to retreat and is willing to put up a Bitter Resistance, it wouldn't retreat no matter what was thrown at it. I like the idea of them staying in place no matter what! Very Happy


Yes, that's it! My men will hold the position - under all circumstances, when the combat-command "bitter resistance" was given!

Quote:

I am truly enjoying the new Winter Wars and especially the Breakthrough cards with the added movement feature.


Definitely! Me too! Smile

Thank you all for your answers!
      
    
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