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Yann
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Expert Mode: please post your comments here Fri, 28 January 2011 14:03
Dear players:

The Beta 16 introduces the Expert Mode. We'd like to hear about your comments, difficulties, ideas, and suggestions. Don't hesitate to post in this thread.

Have fun!

Yann

[Updated on: Fri, 28 January 2011 14:22]

      
Cheesehead
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Fri, 28 January 2011 17:53
Are we going to be able to play all the new scenarios in solo, non expert mode? That was a huge reason I upgraded to the Captain's Package. I'm more into the casual gameplay...
      
Vulch
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Fri, 28 January 2011 17:57
Cheesehead wrote on Fri, 28 January 2011 16:53

Are we going to be able to play all the new scenarios in solo, non expert mode? That was a huge reason I upgraded to the Captain's Package. I'm more into the casual gameplay...



I am thinking NO.........or at least not for a while.

Quote:

The purpose of the Expert mode is to let you let you play any scenario ever designed for Memoir '44 that we haven't had a chance to code the rules for yet!
      
Cheesehead
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Fri, 28 January 2011 18:13
So if I play someone on the Eastern Front, say, I'd want to make sure I read the rules for that expansion? I'm assuming the rules for all the expansions are available for download, right?
      
stevens
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Fri, 28 January 2011 18:19
YES!

http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/content/rules/
      
Cheesehead
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Fri, 28 January 2011 18:26
stevens wrote on Fri, 28 January 2011 12:19

YES!

http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/content/rules/


I guess that would be an affirmative! Razz

Cool!
      
Erik Uitdebroeck
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Fri, 28 January 2011 18:50
Yann wrote on Fri, 28 January 2011 14:03

Dear players:

The Beta 16 introduces the Expert Mode.

GREAT NEWS !
Thanks.
      
Nygaard
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Fri, 28 January 2011 18:59
Just tried it a few times today. Looks awesome and it worked fine. Couldn't help trying to roll 8 dice against an opponent Twisted Evil

You never get to cheat like that when you play in real life (mostly because your opponent won't lend you the dice!)
      
Yann
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Fri, 28 January 2011 21:09
Cheesehead asked

Are we going to be able to play all the new scenarios in solo, non expert mode?


As we wrote in the release notes, new scenarios will often follow this path: they will first appear in Expert Mode - since generally no specific coding is required. This allows us to work on them, develop new UI as needed, and code the (often many) special rules required by the scenarios. When everything is implemented and tested, then the scenarios will move to Standard/Solo Mode.

Nygaard wrote on Fri, 28 January 2011 18:59

Just tried it a few times today. Looks awesome and it worked fine
Glad you like it. Smile

Nygaard added

Couldn't help trying to roll 8 dice against an opponent Twisted Evil
We all did that, it's irresistible Twisted Evil

Have fun!

Yann
      
Nygaard
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Sat, 29 January 2011 09:46
Found one strange bug so far:
When writing in the chatbox in expert mode the back-space button will erase 2 letters at a time instead of just one.
That's particularly annoying since you need the chat function much more in Expert mode, than in regular play.

Some comments:
It would be nice if sandbags disappeared as a default when left by defending units.

I had to add an inf unit to a game I was playing as the Japanese, and all of a sudden a German infantry unit appeared out of the jungle, much to my surprise Smile
So I had to dublicate one of my other units instead...

And the computer doesn't register Jungle tiles as giving -1 dice protection against attacks from inf. So when playing a map with lots of jungle, this requires a lot of dice adjustments.

That's it for now.

Keep up the good work,
Magnus

      
rasmussen81
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Sat, 29 January 2011 10:29
Hey Magnus,

Good finds with the bugs! I think we'll find more bugs in the expert mode than we were finding in Normal and Solo mode simply because it hasn't been tested by as many people for as long.

Make sure that you're still sending these finds to DoW with the Bug Report Form; I'll bet your already doing that but just in case... Smile
      
sam1812
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Sat, 29 January 2011 14:12
Nygaard wrote on Sat, 29 January 2011 03:46

It would be nice if sandbags disappeared as a default when left by defending units.

Can't do that. It would delete Sea Walls in scenarios like First Assault Wave, as well as any other durable sandbags.
      
crono96
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Sat, 29 January 2011 16:49
I think there should be more options, Before the game starts, to what elements should be added into the game (example: The option two change the dice roll or to move farther then you are alowed to, and so on) . AND THAN the rules are locked during the game. Because I Know that expert is made for people that Know the rule and Know how to make them work or change them. But I have seen a lot of people play expert that don't even now the rules or arn't paing attion. so they keep ading dice or bringing units back on the borad because they don't Know the rules. and its always extremly anoing when people move anywere thay want to and add as many dice as thay want to.

I realy like the idea of exspert and it is relly fun to play with people that Know the rules.

And for people that play expert if you have the air pack and any other expantion that Comes wth reference cards. I find it extremly helpfull if i have them with me as I play.
      
eric
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Sat, 29 January 2011 18:33
crono96 wrote on Sat, 29 January 2011 07:49

I think there should be more options, Before the game starts, to what elements should be added into the game (example: The option two change the dice roll or to move farther then you are alowed to, and so on) . AND THAN the rules are locked during the game. Because I Know that expert is made for people that Know the rule and Know how to make them work or change them. But I have seen a lot of people play expert that don't even now the rules or arn't paing attion. so they keep ading dice or bringing units back on the borad because they don't Know the rules. and its always extremly anoing when people move anywere thay want to and add as many dice as thay want to.

I realy like the idea of exspert and it is relly fun to play with people that Know the rules.

And for people that play expert if you have the air pack and any other expantion that Comes wth reference cards. I find it extremly helpfull if i have them with me as I play.


We cannot and won't do that (add a bevy of options re how the Expert mode should play, what is enforced or not, etc..). We know because we tried and it doesn't work. Rolling Eyes

There's at least 2 reasons for this:
- you end up with bewildering array of options
- even if you know the rules perfectly, you still end up picking some wrong options because you didn't realize until you ran into the issue during gameplay that something you thought held true for this scenario quite doesn't.

Furthermore offering options would allow people once some SFTF appear in Expert mode to play the scenarios with a different set of options that those wished by the scenario designer, something which is not desirable.

eric
      
LooneyLlama
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Sat, 29 January 2011 20:37
After playing 3/4 of a game(there was a disconnect)I have a few thoughts. You can not depend on the computer to do your thinking. Some examples, my opponent played Their Finest Hour and rolled 5 dice when he had only 4 cards(he had marines and may have thought he could roll one more die). I don't know if it was a bug or just a mistake. Also he kept rolling maximum dice against units on hills while he was in lower terrain. These weren't close assaults but I think he thought he could use max. dice because they were flamethrowers and engineers. Again, I don't know if he was offered max. dice by the computer or he changed it. I also screwed up by retreating my first Japanese unit. Fortunately I caught it and was able to put him back. That's a nice feature. I think it's a good idea to have the directions handy for each of these new theaters. There may be players who don't have the board versions to refer to so my advice is to print them from DOW. You really have to be an Expert to play these new scenarios.

Eric
      
SirKirby
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Sat, 29 January 2011 21:50
Being able to play Expert solo would be a huge plus.
      
Nygaard
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Sun, 30 January 2011 02:48
SirKirby wrote on Sat, 29 January 2011 21:50

Being able to play Expert solo would be a huge plus.


Yeah, even if you had to play both sides manually, it would be a cool thing to be able to test your scenarios that way.
      
sam1812
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Sun, 30 January 2011 07:03
This evening, I played my first and second fractions of a game in Expert Mode. In the first game, on his first turn, my opponent meant to remove some figures after he stepped on a mine, but accidentally removed the whole unit. He couldn't find a way to undo this, so he tried to create a new unit, and it crashed the game. Totally non-responsive.

Second game, my opponent got past his first turn, but at the end of my first turn, I couldn't find a way to indicate that I was done battling. After a number of seconds, the "Battle" icon appeared at the lower-right corner, but I couldn't click the "Done" button. The program was totally non-responsive. Crashed again.

So from a reliability standpoint, let's just say that the only fun I had was seeing my opponent's 5 Air Power hits wasted. Smile

Specific usability suggestions:

1. Show movement trails on all ordered units. Otherwise, it's impossible to tell whether a unit made a legal move.

2. The white flag to surrender: I didn't get up to the end of a game, but if completed games will automatically feed into the players' won-lost records and/or ratings, then is there a reminder for players who try to exit without indicating who won? If you program the victory conditions as part of the board's setup, you can have the computer ask the players to confirm whether the game is over when the victory conditions appear to have been met. (Include a freeform do-not-auto-detect-victory option for scenarios with unconventional victory conditions.)

3. I'll be curious to see how the "default number of dice" works in various situations. I got crashed out before having a chance to look carefully at this. If there's ever a scenario where a lot of the battles will involve unusual numbers of dice (because of special terrain or unit rules), I can imagine it becoming cumbersome.
      
Erik Uitdebroeck
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Sun, 30 January 2011 10:25
I tried it and I like it very much.
It's easy to play and it looks awsome.
Keep up the good work.
      
Yann
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Sun, 30 January 2011 10:30
sam1812 wrote on Sun, 30 January 2011 07:03

[snip]So from a reliability standpoint, let's just say that the only fun I had was seeing my opponent's 5 Air Power hits wasted. Smile


Could you send us a bug report with the information about the game(s) that crashed and the corresponding log files?

Note: each session is stored in a separate log file, which gets its name from the date and hour. You need to find the log file that corresponds to your crash. It will probably contain the "Exception" word (it's a plain text file). Then zip it (them) and attach it (them) to your bug report.

Thanks in advance!

Yann
      
sam1812
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Sun, 30 January 2011 14:27
Yann wrote on Sun, 30 January 2011 04:30

Could you send us a bug report with the information about the game(s) that crashed and the corresponding log files?

Hi, Yann --

I forgot to say in my post that I had already sent a bug report with all three logfiles.

It's a pleasure to be a step ahead of you for once, since you're usually the one who is a step ahead of us! Smile

Sam
      
Vekkiller
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Sun, 30 January 2011 17:16
hi, anyone knows how the russian command rules work on expert mode?
i tried to use them in the finnish scenario, selecting them before the start, but i can't figure how it can be done once the game starts.
i tried to move a card on the pack but it doesn't work
by the way, retreating on a frozen river, i tried to roll for damages but no dice were rolled (with alt-). maybe because it wasn't immediately following the fight . according to eastern front manual, two dice have to be rolled and stars count for one loss

is it the right procedure ? or is it a bug ?
then soon after the game crashed down with no recovery afterwards

anyway, it is still a great game.
      
Randwulf
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Sun, 30 January 2011 18:47
Russian Command rules are disabled right now. Maybe out in B17???
      
mfnevels
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Sun, 30 January 2011 20:30
I just posted a Bug Report:
"In the event of a retreat towards your own baseline, if you're being blocked by two enemy units or impassable terrain, a retreat is not possible and your unit loses one figure. In Expert Mode, however, the game engine still is blinking the purple circles, so you can choose a hex to retreat onto. EVEN IF IT IS occupied by enemy units! It is rather annoying, you have to manually use Alt + Ignore retreat to solve this."

Ticket#2011013010000312

And I have also experienced firsthand the double deletion of characters by the Backspace button. Awkward, especially in Expert Mode, and you're hitting Backspace again and then start typing to find more characters are missing, you hit Backspace again.. Ad nauseam, ad infinitum...
      
Jokull
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Mon, 31 January 2011 01:25
SUCKED

(I have already filed a bug report)

Sorry to say this was the most unrewarding Memoir Experience Ever!

I was looking forward to playing such missions as Red Barricades Factory but due to lack of opponents I found a nice mister Oaka offering to play Hellfire Pass.

The interface was slow and little fun, but then we found the mines didn't work and then Oaka unknowingly preformed an impossible maneuver when he did an overrun from a ridge hex he had just occupied.

Then the game did an unknown error and crashed.

I payed 30$ to participate in this Beta game and frankly it didn't do it for me. It is so much Beta that it is worse than the 1st Beta version on Memoir and you shouldn't be charging players extra for Expert mode at this stage.

Secondly, just program the missions, you can't expect everyone to know every rule or even agree on them. I know the idea is fair play but it just doesn't work, the game is too complex and in real life mistakes can be corrected but not here and I cannot anticipate every move by my opponent!!!

Lastly do something about the minefields right now, I drive on them, the counter shows 3 but that is ok, since NOTHING happens anyway!

I may try this mode again but seriously so far this is by far the worst Days of Wonder purchase I have made, all others have left me satisfied.

If Oaka reads this he was a nice opponent and none of this is his fault.
      
sam1812
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Mon, 31 January 2011 02:16
Jokull --

I feel your pain, as you can see from my message a little farther up this thread. Coincidentally, my bad experience also happened at Hellfire Pass. (Aptly named.) And I'll admit that I felt pretty frustrated after investing a half hour in my fruitless first attempt at Expert Mode. At least, my opponent and I were able to drown our sorrows in a nice battle of St. Vith afterward.

Let's bear in mind, though, that DoW is a quality company, made up of good people who care about the games they produce. If Beta 16 were as flawed as it seemed in your game and mine, there would be many more frustrated messages. Beta 16 must have worked in their internal test environment, because otherwise, they wouldn't have released it.

There were problems with crashes in earlier versions of the beta, and they fixed them pretty quickly. History suggests that they'll fix the problems here, too.

Maybe it's just that I've played a few hundred games on Vassal, so I'm accustomed to a computer game that (like the actual boardgame) doesn't prohibit impossible moves and doesn't automatically roll for the mines. That's the difference between Standard and Expert modes. (However, as I mentioned previously, Expert Mode does need movement trails, so players can verify whether a move was legal.) Right-clicking on a hex shows the relevant summary cards, so "help" is readily available for people who need some help with the rules. When DoW fixes a few kinks, I'll bet it'll be very playable.

Personally, I'm staying out of Expert Mode until the next version comes out. But I'm still having a little too much fun in Standard Mode.

Sam
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Mon, 31 January 2011 03:21
Sorry to hear you had such a frustrating experience. Don't give up on it yet...I find it to be a very fun way to play Memoir '44 but it does take some getting used to; especially after playing Normal and Solo modes where all of the rules are enforced!

PFC Jökull wrote on Mon, 31 January 2011 04:25

The interface was slow and little fun, but then we found the mines didn't work and then Oaka unknowingly preformed an impossible maneuver when he did an overrun from a ridge hex he had just occupied.


Don't forget that you can do any impossible move you want and none of the rules are enforced, so Mines don't have any effect unless you give it to them. This is done on purpose and you'll have to learn how the system works.


Quote:

I payed 30$ to participate in this Beta game and frankly it didn't do it for me. It is so much Beta that it is worse than the 1st Beta version on Memoir and you shouldn't be charging players extra for Expert mode at this stage.


You payed $30 for a lower price on your GI...and you got access to Expert Mode. Don't forget that you are getting excellent use out of all your GI over in Normal and Solo mode!! Smile Right now Expert Mode needs a little bit of work still but it's certainly worth it for me, though it takes a lot more thinking and a lot more time.

Quote:

Secondly, just program the missions, you can't expect everyone to know every rule or even agree on them. I know the idea is fair play but it just doesn't work, the game is too complex and in real life mistakes can be corrected but not here and I cannot anticipate every move by my opponent!!!


It's called Expert Mode for a reason...because you must know all the rules! That won't change for Expert Mode, though they will program the missions eventually so that you can play them in Normal Mode and not have to know the rules. And yes, you can undo any mistake you make...you just need to know how.

One thing I discovered last time I played Expert Mode (that I didn't think they had) was that the DoW team has all of the terrain and unit cards programed into the map...so you can check the summary card for anything on the board without having to look it up in the rule book just by control-clicking on a hex! It's very useful in Expert Mode so you don't need to have every little thing memorized.

Quote:

Lastly do something about the minefields right now, I drive on them, the counter shows 3 but that is ok, since NOTHING happens anyway!


Like it says, Expert Mode does not enforce any of the rules, including Mines!! You have to do it all yourself. They aren't designed to do anything except flip over...

It sounds like you didn't see the Expert Mode manual, so you might want to read through that before you try Expert Mode again. It explains how to do many of the things you found so frustrating. Here's a link to it:

http://cdn0.daysofwonder.com/memoir44-online/en/img/M44-Expe rtManual-0.3.pdf

[Updated on: Mon, 31 January 2011 04:07]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Mon, 31 January 2011 04:40
sam1812 wrote on Sun, 30 January 2011 10:03

1. Show movement trails on all ordered units. Otherwise, it's impossible to tell whether a unit made a legal move.


I was playing a battle last night and thinking about this suggestion...and I agree that we need some way to track where the unit moved from. I pictured arrows in each hex the unit moved through or footprints or something, but I don't think that movement trails would work (or could be easily programmed). The reason is because there's no way for the computer to know what path a unit took to get to the final hex. And what happens when you're playing Japanese moving through Cave networks?

Instead of movement trails, I think it would serve the same purpose if we could at least see where each unit started the turn and then connect that with there they ended up to see if it was a legal move. But again, it wouldn't work to just have footprints in the starting hexes because in a turn with lots of moves players would have no idea where each unit started...

So I wondered if it would work to create a little number 1 on the first unit you select to order, a number 2 on the next one, a number 3 on the next, etc and then the number could remain in the starting hex of each unit. That way you could verify that unit 1 could indeed move from it's starting spot to its final hex.

It's an idea but I don't know if it would work the way I envision it! Cool
      
sam1812
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Mon, 31 January 2011 05:20
Jesse, movement trails are pretty straightforward. On Vassal (which I'll use as an example because it's the only gaming engine I know), they're paths that begin where the unit was and end where the unit finishes its movement, with nodes at the beginning, end, and any hex in between where the unit touches down.

Most people move their units one hex at a time. Some people move their units directly from start to destination. If a unit moves from one cave to another, you see that long line, too.
      
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Mon, 31 January 2011 05:25
sam1812 wrote on Mon, 31 January 2011 08:20

Jesse, movement trails are pretty straightforward. On Vassal (which I'll use as an example because it's the only gaming engine I know), they're paths that begin where the unit was and end where the unit finishes its movement, with nodes at the beginning, end, and any hex in between where the unit touches down.

Most people move their units one hex at a time. Some people move their units directly from start to destination. If a unit moves from one cave to another, you see that long line, too.


Sounds like that would work! Smile So you can move one hex at a time to show your movement path or you could adjust any of the nodes to show your movement...that makes sense.

I agree with you, Sam...we need some way to see where the units started! Cool
      
sam1812
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Mon, 31 January 2011 05:43
Would it be feasible to have an Undo button in Expert mode?

Also, someone pointed out to me that -- though everybody I've ever run into seems trustworthy (with one possible exception a yaer ago), it would be easy to cheat with the dice, because only the current roll is visible: You roll the dice and miss, you immediately reroll, and even if your opponent notices, he can't prove it. I suspect that one solution would be to have a minimum time lag between rolls. Another solution would be to click a certain way to see a history of recent die rolls.
      
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Mon, 31 January 2011 06:09
sam1812 wrote on Mon, 31 January 2011 08:43

Would it be feasible to have an Undo button in Expert mode?


We don't need an undo in Expert mode, do we? We can undo any move we make, including killed units and missed attacks.

I guess if an undo was possible it would make it easier to correct mistakes we make, but right now I can fix my mistakes pretty quickly...and I make a lot of them! Razz
      
frankeytje
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Mon, 31 January 2011 08:05
played my first expert games yesterday

first of all: i like it,
seems there are a lot of problems, but i didnt encounter them
so over and over again: thx DoW for the fun i've had, i have and will have Very Happy

secondly:
-i think its true about the trails, or the starting positions of a unit;
not only for the other player, but for oneself. I found myself thinking, where in heavens name did this unit start? Confused
-i wondered if there is one complete list, with all rules (including expansion pack rules, breakthrough, etc)
i found i had difficulties remebering all rules, especially if you're playing a lot of different scenarios in a row,

my god, i love this game Cool
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Mon, 31 January 2011 08:11
frankeytje wrote on Mon, 31 January 2011 11:05

played my first expert games yesterday


I was happy to break you into the new way of playing Memoir '44 Online!! It was a fun battle. Smile

Quote:

-i wondered if there is one complete list, with all rules (including expansion pack rules, breakthrough, etc)
i found i had difficulties remebering all rules, especially if you're playing a lot of different scenarios in a row,


Check my User Page for an updated Player Aid. It includes all of the rules in one smaller document that you can check really quickly. Check here for a quick link to the Player Aid.

Enjoy and I'll look for you on the battle field again!! Very Happy
      
SirKirby
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Mon, 31 January 2011 08:39
Wow! The latest version of your player chart is truly Cool Aid Razz !
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Mon, 31 January 2011 08:45
SirKirby wrote on Mon, 31 January 2011 11:39

Wow! The latest version of your player chart is truly Cool Aid Razz !


Laughing Laughing I'm glad you like it! Cool

I'm actually going to run into trouble when I go to update the Player Aid for the Winter Wars expansion...my first page is reserved for Units and it's nearly full! So I think I'll have to spread them out a bit and spill over onto a second page of units... ah well, it'll just make the document a bit longer. Razz
      
frankeytje
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Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Mon, 31 January 2011 09:04
rasmussen81 wrote on Mon, 31 January 2011 02:11

frankeytje wrote on Mon, 31 January 2011 11:05

played my first expert games yesterday


I was happy to break you into the new way of playing Memoir '44 Online!! It was a fun battle. Smile

Quote:

-i wondered if there is one complete list, with all rules (including expansion pack rules, breakthrough, etc)
i found i had difficulties remebering all rules, especially if you're playing a lot of different scenarios in a row,


Check my User Page for an updated Player Aid. It includes all of the rules in one smaller document that you can check really quickly. Check here for a quick link to the Player Aid.

Enjoy and I'll look for you on the battle field again!! Very Happy


thx, real big help indeed, you've done a very good job

btw next time we'll meet on the battlefield i'll crush you like a worm
Rolling Eyes at least; Confused
i'll try Razz
      
rasmussen81
DoW Content Provider
Designer's Oath

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July 2007
Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Mon, 31 January 2011 12:17
frankeytje wrote on Mon, 31 January 2011 12:04

btw next time we'll meet on the battlefield i'll crush you like a worm
Rolling Eyes at least; Confused
i'll try Razz


Like a worm? Well, that gives me good motivation to practice before we meet again so I get crushed by something more interesting...like maybe an ant! Smile

You're on my friend list now, so when I see you online I'll invite you to battle... Cool
      
frankeytje
Member
Commandant

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Posts: 50
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September 2007
Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Mon, 31 January 2011 12:24
rasmussen81 wrote on Mon, 31 January 2011 06:17


Like a worm? Well, that gives me good motivation to practice before we meet again so I get crushed by something more interesting...like maybe an ant! Smile


according the amount of items you posted on this forum, i'd rather crush you like a centipede or a millipede; Very Happy

made you a friend as well, cu on the battlefield
      
SirKirby
Senior Member
Kursant

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Posts: 180
Registered:
February 2005
Re:Expert Mode: please post your comments here Mon, 31 January 2011 12:33
"next time we'll meet on the battlefield i'll crush you like a worm..."

Another of the glorious things about M44: you could moan that it's not sufficiently historically realistic, but then along comes an upstart 2nd Lt who imaines he's a world beater (only kidding).

That's only until Rasmussen's Panzers start to roll Laughing
      
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