Forums

Search
Forums » Memoir '44 Online - English » Absence Stamp in Officer Career page
Show: Today's Posts 
  
AuthorTopic
Yann
-= Crew =-
KS Backer - Skeleton

User Pages
Posts: 2355
Registered:
October 2002
Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Fri, 28 January 2011 15:03
Dear players:

If you go to the new Officer Career page (yours or the one of someone else), you might see a big red stamp across his ID card.

The stamps appears if the player did not play recently, and varies depending on the delay:

[EDIT: we changed the terms to the following ones, so new readers might have a hard time following the logic of the conversation below Wink ]

  • 3-DAY PASS: gone for over 3 days
  • ON LEAVE: gone for over 7 days
  • IN RESERVE: gone for over 30 days

Keep in mind that only Standard multiplayer games are used for this.

Enjoy!

Yann

[Updated on: Thu, 03 February 2011 10:16]

      
clexton27
Senior Member
Advanced Historian

User Pages
Posts: 3107
Registered:
February 2007
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Fri, 28 January 2011 15:56
Hey great idea. Definitely would want to get that DESERTER stamp off my pass.
      
nemesszili
Senior Member
Hauptmann

User Pages
Posts: 946
Registered:
June 2008
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Fri, 28 January 2011 16:16
Another good way of discriminating people who can't play day by day...
      
Randwulf
DoW Content Provider
Major

User Pages
Posts: 1364
Registered:
March 2005
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Fri, 28 January 2011 20:49
I kinda agree with Nemesszii, I would ditch the Deserter.

shift everything... 7 days on leave, 15 days in Reserve and 30+ days MIA.

I am on the computer almost every day, and check the forums when I can, but don't play every day... real life gets in the way, and I know of a few folks that can only play on the weekends...

I vote no on Deserter.
      
Yann
-= Crew =-
KS Backer - Skeleton

User Pages
Posts: 2355
Registered:
October 2002
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Fri, 28 January 2011 21:01
Randwulf wrote on Fri, 28 January 2011 20:49

I am on the computer almost every day, and check the forums when I can, but don't play every day... real life gets in the way, and I know of a few folks that can only play on the weekends...

But then in this case they would not be qualified as Deserters. They would be "in Reserve", or at most, "Missing in Action".

Yann
      
clexton27
Senior Member
Advanced Historian

User Pages
Posts: 3107
Registered:
February 2007
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Fri, 28 January 2011 21:19
I think the gist of what Randwulf and Szili are trying to say is the the term "Deserter" is somewhat derogatory. If you want to encourage folks to continue to play, you want to stay on an upbeat message not one that would seem to try to SHAME people into returning to the game.

I also think that using the first 3
ON LEAVE
IN RESERVE and
MISSING in ACTION are sufficient.
I also think Randwulf's suggestion to extend the time on each of these limits is also a good idea.
............................................................ .....
On the lighter side, my suggestion for replacing the DESERTER with POW (Pissed off Wife) is probably more understandable to most of these guys.
Laughing Laughing
      
Randwulf
DoW Content Provider
Major

User Pages
Posts: 1364
Registered:
March 2005
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Fri, 28 January 2011 21:21
To guys that have served, Deserter is a very bad word. And to link it to a game in my opinion is insulting. And rude to those of us that can't play much, or can't afford a new pack till next month...

Life gets in the way very often. I would rather think of an old friend not seen in months due to family, health, work, or any combination, to be merely Missing in Action as opposed to being a Deserter.

You guys always do the right thing.

Let me put it to you this way. One of us has an accident and dies. Would you want your friends record to state he was a Deserter? Or would you rather remember him as merely MIA?

      
Randwulf
DoW Content Provider
Major

User Pages
Posts: 1364
Registered:
March 2005
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Fri, 28 January 2011 21:30
I have been a POW, but have managed to escape three times.

We called it Prisoner of Wife, and to escape with our Game collections intact, Divorce....

I said after the second escape I would never be captured again...
Now after my third escape I am more cautious when in enemy territory.


      
Yann
-= Crew =-
KS Backer - Skeleton

User Pages
Posts: 2355
Registered:
October 2002
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Sat, 29 January 2011 00:17
Good feedback, we hadn't thought about it this way.

We will likely change Deserter to AWOL ("Away While On Leave") which does not imply Deserter but looks like it would work nicely.

See http://www.thefreedictionary.com/AWOL

Thanks,

Yann

[Updated on: Sat, 29 January 2011 00:32]

      
Phread
Senior Member
Stiff Upper Lip

User Pages
Posts: 1778
Registered:
December 2008
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Sat, 29 January 2011 01:22
Nice new page - I like it.

Could the points gained/lost for each battle also be shown?

      
Randwulf
DoW Content Provider
Major

User Pages
Posts: 1364
Registered:
March 2005
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Sat, 29 January 2011 02:36
AWOL is much better than Deserter...

But needs to be spelled out "Away While On Leave" to separate it from Absent With Out Leave, which is again being a Deserter.
      
eric
-= Crew =-
Advanced Combat Training

User Pages
Posts: 3198
Registered:
October 2002
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Sat, 29 January 2011 03:10
Isn't Without one word though? Very Happy
      
Randwulf
DoW Content Provider
Major

User Pages
Posts: 1364
Registered:
March 2005
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Sat, 29 January 2011 03:19
Smile Yes, but the Army loves their anachronyms.
      
cem0007
Junior Member
Lieutenant Colonel

User Pages
Posts: 3
Registered:
July 2004
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Sat, 29 January 2011 04:25
Yeah - I disagree with this - you are alienating people by MIA and Deserter - please change to played in the past week - On the Front. Played past month - At Regiment. Played past 3 months - On Exercises. Played past 6 months - On Leave. Or some like. Just NO MIA or Deserter. Sheesh!
      
ad79
Senior Member
Major Howard

User Pages
Posts: 789
Registered:
September 2007
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Sat, 29 January 2011 07:46
Yann, I think it is a good suggestion to have these stamps, but I don't really see the use in them.
As it is we have a line that says "Last battle" and that tells all I need to know.
As nemesszili says, these stamps is to me, a clever way of naming and shaming. And I strongly dissagree with that process. (Think TtR forums Sad )

These stamps focus on the negative performance, not the positive : You haven't been here for 3 days, you get a stamp! You have enjoyed a 3 week holiday with the family, you get a BAD stamp!

As a teacher, I believe in telling people how they should behave, rather than telling them how they shouldn't behave.

The feature of stamps is nice, but keep it positive.
Give players a stamp for the number of plays, like the senior member on the forums.
Played hundred games(only standard) get a stamp, Played 250: get a new one, played 500, played 1000.
I don't know what they call it in the different armies, but junior, veteran, senior, etc. comes to mind.

Please, keep negative things neutral and positive things flashy!We are trying to draw in more players here.

Let's do an example: I talk my friend into trying Memoir'44 Online, since he enjoys the boardgame. He tries it, plays a few scenarios, decides he'd rather just play the boardgame. (Some people think boardgames should be played as a sosial thing with real live opponents, and I must say I enjoy Memoir'44 the most in it's boardgame form, closely followed by M'44O)
My friend would then FOREVER have a DESERTER stamp on his Officer page. I don't want any player to get that.
Last battle: 01.01.2011 is enough for me. I don't need to see a "Deserter" or "AWOL" stamp on it too.

Missing in Action can also have a bad ring to some people that have actually lost someone in battle.
      
nemesszili
Senior Member
Hauptmann

User Pages
Posts: 946
Registered:
June 2008
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Sat, 29 January 2011 09:55
This AWOL seems more friendlier than Deserter, though. Smile
      
eldonion
Senior Member
Minesweeper

User Pages
Posts: 159
Registered:
December 2007
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Sat, 29 January 2011 13:14
Stongly agree with the points raised that deserter is not the correct wording to use

In my case as i spend most of my life working in the merchant navy on ships at sea.

As i am unable to download any outside unapproved software to the ships onboard systems. for four months at a time i am unable to access the online version of the game.

On my career page i would prefer something a bit less harsh like
"Working undercover behind enemy lines!"

Generally I love the new pages and changes to career pages etc and the ability to see other peoples pages.

Well done to you all!!
      
rasmussen81
DoW Content Provider
Designer's Oath

User Pages
Posts: 7196
Registered:
July 2007
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Sat, 29 January 2011 13:45
Did everyone miss Yann's post about the "Deserter" stamp? Rolling Eyes He already said that they will change that stamp to "AWOL (Away While On Leave)" to avoid the more negative sound of things. Here's his exact words:

Yann wrote on Sat, 29 January 2011 03:17

Good feedback, we hadn't thought about it this way.

We will likely change Deserter to AWOL ("Away While On Leave") which does not imply Deserter but looks like it would work nicely.

See http://www.thefreedictionary.com/AWOL

Thanks,

Yann


I have to say that I'm not worried one way or the other about this stamp idea...I don't think it's going to cause any psychic trama to anyone if they see that their little book says"On Leave" or "Missing In Action" or "AWOL" because after a single battle the stamp is gone. Granted, I've never been in the military or in combat so maybe some of these phrases hold more meaning for people...but this is a game and I really don't think anyone is going to take it so seriously that DoW couldn't use these stamps.

But that's just my two cents! Take it for what it's worth; not much. Razz
      
Coldwarrior1984
Junior Member
Major

User Pages
Posts: 25
Registered:
December 2010
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Sun, 30 January 2011 21:54
As a veteran, I would like to pipe in on this.

Deserter...the lowest of the low, a coward that betrays his nation and his comrades in arms...one deserving of death if the desertion is "in the face of the enemy."

AWOL...Absent Without Leave...a criminal offense in the military, punishable by imprisonment, fines, loss of rank, and even dishonorable discharge.

MIA...Missing In Action...we fly a black POW/MIA flag to honor those that are held by the enemy or that have not returned.

These terms mean something. Please do not use them in the context of this game.

3 days of not playing...how about this...the guy was on a 3 day pass.

1 week of not playing...the guy was on furlough.

30 days of not playing...the guy was detached to HQ for staff duty.


I know that this is intended in fun, and in that spirit, I offer these substitute terms for the periods of non-game play.

[Updated on: Sun, 30 January 2011 21:57]

      
gorthmog
Junior Member
Major

User Pages
Posts: 7
Registered:
November 2008
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Tue, 01 February 2011 07:05
Coldwarrior1984 wrote on Sun, 30 January 2011 13:54

As a veteran, I would like to pipe in on this.

Deserter...the lowest of the low, a coward that betrays his nation and his comrades in arms...one deserving of death if the desertion is "in the face of the enemy."

AWOL...Absent Without Leave...a criminal offense in the military, punishable by imprisonment, fines, loss of rank, and even dishonorable discharge.

MIA...Missing In Action...we fly a black POW/MIA flag to honor those that are held by the enemy or that have not returned.

These terms mean something. Please do not use them in the context of this game.



I would agree with the above. It seems like there are two groups of people who will receive these stamps - those who can only play irregularly for one reason or another, and those who have just stopped playing. Since the latter group won't ever see the stamps (and hence can't be shamed anyway), you don't want to alienate the people who maybe only play on the weekends, or actually do have to take a month break.

As Coldwarrior1984 suggests, how about something like:

"3 Day Pass" - gone for 3+ days
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pass_(United_States_military)

"On Leave" - gone for 7+ days
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leave_(U.S._military)

"In Reserve" - gone for 30+ days

I like "In Reserve" better than "Detached to HQ" because it's again more of a positive statement - "Detached to HQ" implies that you might never come back from your "desk job", while "In Reserve" sounds like you're ready to just jump back in.

-Chris
      
clexton27
Senior Member
Advanced Historian

User Pages
Posts: 3107
Registered:
February 2007
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Tue, 01 February 2011 14:36
I agree with Gorthmog.
I think these "positive' reasons to be absent are the best.
      
Randwulf
DoW Content Provider
Major

User Pages
Posts: 1364
Registered:
March 2005
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Tue, 01 February 2011 23:24
I also much prefer Gorthmogs Line up.
      
red_zebra
Senior Member
Lieutenant

User Pages
Posts: 333
Registered:
February 2005
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Wed, 02 February 2011 00:43
So, if I paint my toy soldiers during the week, and play the real game (ie not online) during weekends, I get a big red stamp???? Evil or Very Mad

Edit -> an "ON LEAVE" on a French document looks funny! Laughing

[Updated on: Wed, 02 February 2011 00:46]

      
Scragnoth
Senior Member
D-Day Recon Team - Silver

User Pages
Posts: 194
Registered:
October 2005
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Wed, 02 February 2011 10:47
I also agree that the Deserter stamp has to go.
And even while Yann said he would do so, it is still there ! Confused

First time ever I had a negative feeling while dealing with the DoW games or websites.
So if the final call is not made with which to replace it, you beter remove it all together.
Negative names can't be the reward for buying almost all your games, visiting your website daily but not being able to play for a while. Sad

And I have seen so many, in my opinion, over-sensitive statements in the forums, that I would have guessed that DoW could have foreseen this.... Rolling Eyes
      
rasmussen81
DoW Content Provider
Designer's Oath

User Pages
Posts: 7196
Registered:
July 2007
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Wed, 02 February 2011 12:51
Scragnoth wrote on Wed, 02 February 2011 13:47

And even while Yann said he would do so, it is still there ! Confused

First time ever I had a negative feeling while dealing with the DoW games or websites.


Give them a chance!! Confused Days of Wonder is a very responsive company and listens to their customers and fans better than any company I've seen, but changing this stamp probably won't happen until the next beta..which comes out next week.

Just because they haven't fixed it imediatly doesn't mean they won't change things...Yann already said that they intend to! The delay just means that they are busy and will modify the the stamps when they can. Smile
      
eric
-= Crew =-
Advanced Combat Training

User Pages
Posts: 3198
Registered:
October 2002
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Wed, 02 February 2011 16:47
Changes are coming (along the lines positively suggested by gorthmog) - but there's only 24 hours in a day, even for us Rolling Eyes
      
Yann
-= Crew =-
KS Backer - Skeleton

User Pages
Posts: 2355
Registered:
October 2002
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Thu, 03 February 2011 10:17
Dear players:

As suggested, we changed the terms to the following ones:


  • 3-DAY PASS: gone for over 3 days
  • ON LEAVE: gone for over 7 days
  • IN RESERVE: gone for over 30 days


Again, thanks for your feed-back about this feature.

Have fun,

Yann
      
rasmussen81
DoW Content Provider
Designer's Oath

User Pages
Posts: 7196
Registered:
July 2007
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Thu, 03 February 2011 10:24
Scragnoth wrote on Wed, 02 February 2011 13:47

And I have seen so many, in my opinion, over-sensitive statements in the forums, that I would have guessed that DoW could have foreseen this.... Rolling Eyes


There is no way to foresee some things. For people like myself who have never served in the military, the text DoW chose for the stamps was simply 'authentic military wording', while for veterans and troops the wording was apparently harsh and shocking.

Anticipating complaints from people is impossible because I've seen complaints about the most random things here on the forums...what's more important, and something that DoW does better than anyone else, is listening to the feedback and figuring out when a complaint is simply somebody 'blowing steam' or when something needs to be fixed. This was something they recognized as needing to be fixed and it has now been taken care of!

[Updated on: Thu, 03 February 2011 10:25]

      
nemesszili
Senior Member
Hauptmann

User Pages
Posts: 946
Registered:
June 2008
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Thu, 03 February 2011 10:30
No matter how little the problem is, DoW will have a check on it! Well done! Very Happy
      
Nygaard
Senior Member
Général de brigade

User Pages
Posts: 1014
Registered:
May 2006
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Thu, 03 February 2011 11:05
Well played, DoW...
      
Mecket
Junior Member
Major

User Pages
Posts: 8
Registered:
November 2010
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Thu, 03 February 2011 11:44
Indeed
Well done and keep up the good work
      
eldonion
Senior Member
Minesweeper

User Pages
Posts: 159
Registered:
December 2007
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Thu, 03 February 2011 12:51
An interesting discussion

Obviously any changes take time to organize so we have to be patient and wait for the next beta upgrade. (Remember these are ever 2 weeks approx)

As in the last few posts i would also like to say well done to the DOW team for your very prompt responses when things like this occur.

      
rasmussen81
DoW Content Provider
Designer's Oath

User Pages
Posts: 7196
Registered:
July 2007
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Thu, 03 February 2011 13:01
eldonion wrote on Thu, 03 February 2011 15:51


Obviously any changes take time to organize so we have to be patient and wait for the next beta upgrade. (Remember these are ever 2 weeks approx)


I may not have noticed, but the change has already been made! The DoW crew found time in their hectic schedules to update the stamps so they now use "3-Day Pass", "On Leave", and "In Reserve".

Quote:

As in the last few posts i would also like to say well done to the DOW team for your very prompt responses when things like this occur.


Indeed. As always, DoW is prompt and does listen...but they still deserve our patience! We have to give them a chance to make the change before we get frustrated with them!! Rolling Eyes
      
clexton27
Senior Member
Advanced Historian

User Pages
Posts: 3107
Registered:
February 2007
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Thu, 03 February 2011 14:07
Another satisfying response.
Kudos to the DOW staff!!
      
Randwulf
DoW Content Provider
Major

User Pages
Posts: 1364
Registered:
March 2005
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Thu, 03 February 2011 14:52
Much better... my many many thanks.

      
Vulch
Senior Member
Colonel

User Pages
Posts: 404
Registered:
May 2009
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Thu, 03 February 2011 16:47
Well I was in the forces for 24 years and saw nothing wrong with
the original wording from DOW.

Am I the only one who read this thread and thought........"It's just a game guys, lighten up a little"?

Rolling Eyes
      
tinsoldier
Senior Member
FFM44 Member

User Pages
Posts: 504
Registered:
December 2010
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Thu, 03 February 2011 16:51
What is the point of having this stamp, anyway ?
      
Morgiliath
Senior Member
Generalmajor

User Pages
Posts: 165
Registered:
January 2011
Re:Absence Stamp in Officer Career page Mon, 07 February 2011 11:26
Vulch wrote on Thu, 03 February 2011 16:47

Well I was in the forces for 24 years and saw nothing wrong with
the original wording from DOW.

Am I the only one who read this thread and thought........"It's just a game guys, lighten up a little"?

Rolling Eyes



I completely agree with Vulch. Much that I respect Coldwarrior (he is one of my favourite game partners) I think he is overreacting here a bit. It's a game, people!

And thank you DoW for listening to the masses Smile
      
    
Previous Topic:Video
Next Topic:Things you could improve
Goto Forum: