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Jaykay2010
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Michael Wittmann

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Cadets of Saumur Fri, 04 February 2011 14:39
Hi folks,

I will be running some Overlord games at a local boardgaming Convention on the last weekend of Feb, a number of players could be seeing Memoir '44 for the first time, so I was just wondering what people thought about the suitability of running Cadets of Saumur.

Do people think this would be a good scenario to use for novices?

What have been peoples experience of playing this one? (I've not played it before myself, but am familiar with Overlord system)
What are the scenarios' good/bad points?
Things to be aware of ... (rules easily missed or confused)?

Any helpful advice would be encouraged

Cheers

Jim
      
jdrommel
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Re:Cadets of Saumur Fri, 04 February 2011 15:21
Hello Jaykay2010,

Maybe you can find an answer seeing the AAR and the rating of the scenario.
http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/editor/view/?id=4554

Yours,
Jdrommel
      
Jaykay2010
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Michael Wittmann

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Re:Cadets of Saumur Fri, 04 February 2011 22:09
A helpful look at the special/additional rules ... the AAR's mostly concentrate on what happened/who won during the game ... does anyone have opinions on how accessible the game is for 'newbies' ? Good points/bad points etc


Ta muchly
      
ad79
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Re:Cadets of Saumur Fri, 04 February 2011 23:02
Caudets is a good scenario and the special rules shouldn't be too bad. Maybe make a helpsheet with just these rules for each person.

Be aware that this scenario might take a long time to play if the Germans play defensively.
To counter this you can houserule that the Germans MUST take atleast 1 of the objectives to win or make sure you play the Germans and keep them offensive.

      
sam1812
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Re:Cadets of Saumur Sat, 05 February 2011 01:25
Hi, Jim --

I think the best Overlord for novices is probably Bastogne. It takes place entirely on dry land, has plenty of units for each side, is very balanced between Allies and Axis, and doesnt't have any special terrain rules to explain.

Saumur is also balanced, but the rafts, train tracks, and half a dozen other special rules complicate things.

Moyland is probably the most exciting "basic" OL, because the two sides come into contact so quickly, but the Allies have won 75% of the reported games.

Sam
      
RBorg
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Cadet

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Re:Cadets of Saumur Sat, 05 February 2011 05:53
Bastogne may be better as Sam suggested Razz

Richard Borg
      
ChizelMonkee
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Re:Cadets of Saumur Sun, 06 February 2011 01:17
We played Cadets with mostly new or newer players. I think the session went fine and everyone had fun.

Having run Overlord for new or nearly new players several times, I think the maps with the most volume or most variety of terrain cause the most confusion. Cadets, IIRC, might fall a bit into the former category.

I don't think you'll have problem running it but it may not be the best for entirely new players.

I haven't played Bastogne as others have suggested or any other non-Battle Map Overlord matches. If you're looking for a pre-printed one, I happen to think Operation Market Garden (part of the Tigers in the Snow Battle Map) is among the most "clean" scenarios. Not a ton of units, pretty straightforward terrain, and while it has new units (Tigers) there is only one on the map and its rules are easily grasped.

I think the Battle Maps are great, especially in a convention setting.

Good luck!

[Updated on: Sun, 06 February 2011 01:18]

      
Jaykay2010
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Michael Wittmann

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Re:Cadets of Saumur Sun, 06 February 2011 21:25
ChizelMonkee wrote on Sun, 06 February 2011 01:17

We played Cadets with mostly new or newer players. I think the session went fine and everyone had fun.

Having run Overlord for new or nearly new players several times, I think the maps with the most volume or most variety of terrain cause the most confusion. Cadets, IIRC, might fall a bit into the former category.

I don't think you'll have problem running it but it may not be the best for entirely new players.

I haven't played Bastogne as others have suggested or any other non-Battle Map Overlord matches. If you're looking for a pre-printed one, I happen to think Operation Market Garden (part of the Tigers in the Snow Battle Map) is among the most "clean" scenarios. Not a ton of units, pretty straightforward terrain, and while it has new units (Tigers) there is only one on the map and its rules are easily grasped.

I think the Battle Maps are great, especially in a convention setting.

Good luck!




That's helpful ChizelMonkee ... I might try taking Market Garden AND Cadets ... but start off with Market Garden ... Bastogne is an interesting scenario I hadnt come across before, so thanks for the pointers guys Smile
      
Jaykay2010
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Michael Wittmann

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Re:Cadets of Saumur Fri, 25 February 2011 19:53
After taking in the advice above I've decided to run an 8 player Overlord of Operation Market Garden at the convention (which is tomorrow!)

A quick question I have is:

The special rules talk about the Allied troops being specialist troops, and lists particular battalions where this applies (101st, and 82nd). On the map itself both these troops are listed, but the British troops on FAR RIGHT section are listed as XXX Corps ... Do these troops receive the specialist rule? I'm guessing no, as they aren't specifically listed ...


Also, could anyone relate how the game plays with the Allies losing a Command with every unit lost, with the Axis gaining a card ... it sounds a tough call for the Allies! If so, I might make sure a few more experienced players are given the Allied side ...

Any other advice/thoughts/comments about this excellent looking scenario would be welcome before tomorrow! Smile


Cheers


Jim
      
Achtung Panzer
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Re:Cadets of Saumur Fri, 25 February 2011 20:22
No, the British infantry with XXX Corps are not specialist - only the British aand US paratroopers are specialist.

The card rule is quite straightforward and explained in the special rules section on the map. As soon as an Allied units is destroyed the Allied player looses a card, chosen blind by the German player and then discarded. Also the German player gains a new card from the top of the deck. This happens as soon as the unit is lost, not at the end of the turn.

There are limits for maximum and minimum numbers of cards held in both the Allied and German hands.

This effectively creates the 'race against time' element of the scenario. The Allies start strong and must take advantage of this but the Germans gradually recover, get organised and start to press their counter-attacks.

It's a great scenario and not too difficult for new players to pick up.

[Updated on: Fri, 25 February 2011 20:24]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:Cadets of Saumur Fri, 25 February 2011 20:23
Check page 48 of the Official FAQ for some help with this scenario. You can find a link to the FAQ in my signature if you don't already have it printed out. Cool

I've only played it once (as the Axis) but I've heard that the Allies have to be really aggressive and take the initiative to win. It would be good to have the more experienced players as Allies (like most scenarios where there's a more challenging side to play).

Have fun and good luck!! Smile
      
ad79
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Re:Cadets of Saumur Fri, 25 February 2011 20:24
Jaykay2010 wrote on Fri, 25 February 2011 19:53

After taking in the advice above I've decided to run an 8 player Overlord of Operation Market Garden at the convention (which is tomorrow!)

A quick question I have is:

The special rules talk about the Allied troops being specialist troops, and lists particular battalions where this applies (101st, and 82nd). On the map itself both these troops are listed, but the British troops on FAR RIGHT section are listed as XXX Corps ... Do these troops receive the specialist rule? I'm guessing no, as they aren't specifically listed ...


Also, could anyone relate how the game plays with the Allies losing a Command with every unit lost, with the Axis gaining a card ... it sounds a tough call for the Allies! If so, I might make sure a few more experienced players are given the Allied side ...

Any other advice/thoughts/comments about this excellent looking scenario would be welcome before tomorrow! Smile


Cheers


Jim


All German units that start in town hexes should have Sandbags. That is also in the FAQ.

If the Axis elliminates an Allied unit, the Axis player chooses a card from the Allied hand that gets discarded and at the same time the Axis player draws a card from the deck and puts it into his hand.

This mechanism doesn't affect the maximum hand size for either side.

No special rules for the XXX corps.

Good luck.
      
ChizelMonkee
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Re:Cadets of Saumur Fri, 25 February 2011 23:30
We played two tables of Market Garden last week. We had a nice mix of experienced and new players.

As the host, I gave a little history lesson on the actual operation. It didn't help my Allies though as, like in real life, there were some early successes but ultimately the XXX Corps couldn't reach Arnhem in time to give the 1st a hand.

Given my familiarity with the real operation (my own research) I found the scenario tremendously enjoyable and is one of my favorite.

You could really feel the swing in momentum as my cards as C-in-C started to dwindle. Ultimately, I held only two artillery bombard cards with only one artillery unit in the XXX Corps in a decidedly useless position. It is a neat mechanic that I think everyone enjoyed even if you were on the Allies' side!

Interestingly, the single Tiger unit played hardly any role in the contest. Now in Tigers in the Snow on the other hand (which we played next) . . . Very Happy

[Updated on: Fri, 25 February 2011 23:35]

      
Jaykay2010
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Michael Wittmann

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Re:Cadets of Saumur Mon, 28 February 2011 16:51
A brief synopsis to complete the thread ...:

The 8 player Operation Market Garden was a huge success ...

I had 3 newbie players (Field Generals), and 5 players who had played before (one who had played online only).

The game was a hit! (Well, especially for me as I ended up on the winning side) Wink

People here got it right, it's a great scenario to introduce new players to the basic rules of ordering troops, getting accustomed to terrain, and discerning tactics. Throw into that the challenge of hand management, and the need (for the Allies) to strike while the iron's hot, and you've got a fantastic scenario.

The Axis team looked beaten before the game started because of the sheer number of tanks coming in from the Allied right flank. Add to that the fact I only had 3 Command Cards to work from, it didn't look too good ... morale was low!

But surprisingly the Axis' took out a few Allied units early, without any loss, edging up their medal count, as well their hand of cards, and slowly the momentum changed ...

There was a finely balanced couple of turns when the Axis players lost one bridge, with its corresponding medal, and the town majority looked to be going the Allies way too, they had also secured a good few medals by now, (I think 7 or 8 ), with the Axis count on 10 ... before a push by the central Field General won back the bridge, and together with the loss of further allied units in the central field (the Allies now increasingly limited with a small hand of cards), the Axis' team secured a hard fought victory!

I should point out that as CinC I found it really hard to allow my FG's to do their own thing, getting caught out offering advice to more than one of them each turn, and with newbies playing, it was hard to explain the rules mid-game without offering a strategic opinion at the same time!

** We thought we could remedy this by having rules questions answered by the opposing CinC next time! **

It's worth mentioning that at one stage in the game, (a good 5 or 6 turns in), one of the newbie FG's had thrown an amazing 100% hit rate with his dice! I would like to think this has won him over to Memoir 44 Smile This proved really vital in the early turns to add some much needed cardage to my hand.

Also, it was really encouraging to find that the player who had only ever played online before, really grasped the Overlord version, and furthermore really enjoyed the full on interaction that comes with it. Overlord is THE way to play Memoir imo.

Furthermore, a new friend was made for some 1to1 battles online! Smile

Fyi ... The Tiger hardly came into play, as mentioned above .. but the sheer presence of it provided a significant threat to the Allied left flank.

All in all a great gaming session!

Thankyou to everyone for your input over the last week or so, it's been really useful to have your opinions and experience.


nb. (Please note, history is only ever recorded by the victors).

Wink



Jim

[Updated on: Mon, 28 February 2011 17:00]

      
ChizelMonkee
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Re:Cadets of Saumur Mon, 28 February 2011 17:39
Great! Glad it well for you. Thanks for the report.

We're running M44 at a con in April and am really considering running Market Garden again.
      
    
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