Five Tribes Five Tribes

Forums

Search
Forums » Small World - English » Did I find Corrupt Weakness
Show: Today's Posts 
  
AuthorTopic
joker7100
Junior Member

Posts: 1
Registered:
August 2009
Did I find Corrupt Weakness Sun, 09 January 2011 03:54
Are you still required to pay the owner of a corrupt race if you have no coins?

I.E. 1st turn I Go after the corrupt Kobolds they conquer 7 spaces. I Then spend all of my 5 opening coins to buy hoards of gypsies. I can then conquer 3 kobold territories and with no coins to pay the corrupt kobolds at this time do I jew them out of it or do I write them an IOU until the end of my turn.

My interpretation is you pay at time of conquest there for if you have no coins at this time you can't pay.
      
rasmussen81
DoW Content Provider
Designer's Oath

User Pages
Posts: 7083
Registered:
July 2007
Re:Did I find Corrupt Weakness Mon, 10 January 2011 04:25
joker7100 wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 06:54

Are you still required to pay the owner of a corrupt race if you have no coins?


I don't believe you would have to pay or owe coins...if you're broke then you avoid that power for one turn.

Quote:

do I jew them out of it


Please refrain from racial comments like this on the forum. Some of the other members may well be Jewish and we don't want to offend anyone. Thanks! Cool
      
panamafever
Junior Member

User Pages
Posts: 18
Registered:
February 2011
Re:Did I find Corrupt Weakness Mon, 14 February 2011 22:12
Yes, it's a great counter to corrupt, I was just thinking of this today!

And as a non-jewish person I'd also like to ask that you please not use the term "jew" in that way.

Thanks!
      
DannyMack
Senior Member
KS Backer - Triton

User Pages
Posts: 155
Registered:
June 2010
Re:Did I find Corrupt Weakness Tue, 15 February 2011 10:57
The rules state that for each successful conquest of a region held by your Corrupt race your opponent must pay you a coin.

So you are half-right. You do pay at the time of conquest.

But to me this situation is no different than when you want to conquer a region that requires 5 tokens to conquer it, but you only have 3 to use--you don't take it if you don't have what it takes to conquer it. (I'd say this is common sense, but I don't want to offend anybody.)

There are other territories available on the map, even though it is a small world. So you are not forced to conquer one you can't afford. If you want to play this way anyway, I'd say it's up to your "Corrupt" opponent whether he is content to take an IOU. Either way, I'd say it is against the spirit of the rules to rob him of his due just because you don't have what it takes to do it right. He should not be penalized.

In fact, to my way of thinking, it is breaking the rules to not pay him a coin, as that is what the Corrupt power clearly demands in the rules. Any time you are following the rules there will be moves you are not allowed to make. I think this is one of those times.
      
panamafever
Junior Member

User Pages
Posts: 18
Registered:
February 2011
Re:Did I find Corrupt Weakness Tue, 15 February 2011 20:59
Ya, this one is tricky. I was all set to be persuaded by Danny Mack's logic til I reread the Corrupt badge:

"Collect 1 Bonus coin from any opponent each time they successfully conquer one of your active regions."

The problem with Danny's reasoning is that he's considering Corrupt to constitute a duty on the part of the attacker, rather than just a privilege of the attacked (note that he inserted the word "must" into the rules)

So, honestly, I could see this being ruled either way. Each makes sense to me. Under Danny's interpretation, Corrupt could have been better worded as "Opponents who conquer one of your active regions must pay you one victory coin per conquered region."
      
DannyMack
Senior Member
KS Backer - Triton

User Pages
Posts: 155
Registered:
June 2010
Re:Did I find Corrupt Weakness Wed, 16 February 2011 08:49
Well, otherwise, it sounds pretty voluntary, doesn't it?
If it's not required, just suggested, that I pay the Corrupt player when I conquer his regions...why would I ever? Just to be nice?
Powers are optional for those who own them.
You can't be forced to deploy your Encampments, or collect coins for Wealthy, or take regions for 1 less token with Mounted...but it's common sense to make use of the power. On the other hand, opposing players don't have the option to hold out on you when you Ransack their regions, nor can they tell your Dragon "you shall not pass."
When a player's actions bring him into contact with another player's special power he needs to follow the rules imposed on him by the special power. Corrupt is no different than any other power in this regard.
Why does this even need an explanation? (Really?)

[Updated on: Thu, 03 March 2011 00:27]

      
panamafever
Junior Member

User Pages
Posts: 18
Registered:
February 2011
Re:Did I find Corrupt Weakness Thu, 17 February 2011 08:29
I understand your arguments, and they're all persuasive, but none are dispositive.

Corrupt gives you the ability to collect one coin. But it can be argued that that ability is nullified by the opponent's not having the ability to pay.

As I said, your arguments are strong, but in a perfect world I'd love a ruling by Eric on this, as "Collect one coin from" is not nearly as clear as "Opponent must/is required to." I think that there's a middle ground between "mandatory" and "voluntary," and that ground might be defined as the line between "enforceable" and unenforceable." (Note that payment is only required AFTER successful conquering--i.e., payment is not explicitly a prerequisite, but rather a "postrequisite," if you will.)
      
panamafever
Junior Member

User Pages
Posts: 18
Registered:
February 2011
Re:Did I find Corrupt Weakness Thu, 17 February 2011 08:40
Oh, beautiful--here's the relevant analogy:


"Each time you successfully conquer a
Region containing an opponent's active
Race token, he must immediately pay
you 1 Victory coin from his own personal
stash (unless he has no coins left).
You cannot ransack In Decline Ghouls."

I think this is about what Corrupt asks as well. YES, I understand your argument that Corrupt still gives the attacker the *choice* to not attack at all, whereas Ransacking doesn't. But what's the difference--ransacking allows a player to refuse to pay a coin--demanded by right by an opponent--because no coins exist.

Again, you could counter that corrupt *doesn't* have this text about zero coins, thus making it clear that 0 coins=no attack allowed. But I still hold that it will need to be house ruled until clarified.


      
eldonion
Senior Member
Minesweeper

User Pages
Posts: 159
Registered:
December 2007
Re:Did I find Corrupt Weakness Mon, 21 February 2011 21:08
A very good question that again i think needs a proper response from the DOW staff

Both sides have raised some good points

I agree with the view that if you can't pay then you can't conquer the area, but if the ruling goes the other way i can live with that as well
      
DannyMack
Senior Member
KS Backer - Triton

User Pages
Posts: 155
Registered:
June 2010
Re:Did I find Corrupt Weakness Tue, 01 March 2011 08:56
If you play against me, and I have either Corrupt- or Ransacking- I'll take IOU's...
      
eric
-= Crew =-
Advanced Combat Training

User Pages
Posts: 3194
Registered:
October 2002
Re:Did I find Corrupt Weakness Wed, 02 March 2011 03:28
If you're corrupt, an opponent that successfully attacks you MUST be able to pay you the 1 coin before occupying the region.

The reason for the AFTER btw was because you don't get paid by someone who fails a die-reinforced conquest attempt for example.

Hope this clarifies things up.
      
DannyMack
Senior Member
KS Backer - Triton

User Pages
Posts: 155
Registered:
June 2010
Re:Did I find Corrupt Weakness Thu, 03 March 2011 00:40
In that case, guys, no IOU's. PAY UP!!!
(Thanks again, Eric.)

I posted a link to this clarification over on the Geek, where they were having the same quandary. Hopefully this will help everybody out.
      
    
Previous Topic:RULES
Next Topic:My Race Idea
Goto Forum: