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Hecki
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Second accounts Wed, 08 June 2011 03:15
Hi folks,

we had an unproductive discussion today in the lobby, and now i would like to hear your opinions: What do you think about second accounts?

In the last weeks several good 1500+ or 1600+ players created second accounts. I still don't understand the reasons for that.

I believe they are

- a distortion of our competition: A quite good 1600+ player can win his games easier (and can win more points) with his lower 2nd account.

- a deception of your opponents: Sometimes you play versus guy and don't know his real strengthness.

- a signal of incredibility: In the past we had the most problems with 2nd-account-cheaters (remember tüfftüff, Dennis, Neven Subotic & etc.). They observed games from their 1st account with their 2nd account, blamed people with their 2nd accounts, or they won with their 1st against their 2nd account for example. Too many second accounts make many players suspicious - wether they are suspicious or not, but there's still the feeling you could be cheated. And this kills most of the fun in this game.

(Funny thing: Many of those players with 2nd accounts play in closed games with their 1st account. Do they feel cheated too?) Rolling Eyes

Today we had this discussion in the lobby, and one of those players couldn't understand my reason why i told him that i won't play with his 2nd account again. I still love to play my games open cause i still want to trust on the fairplay of my opponents - which gets harder every week.

So what do you think? Am i right? Am i wrong? I'd really love to read your answers to this case.

(Disclaimer: I have a 2nd account too. It was created many years ago when the "kick-out-button" didn't exist and players could stalk you all the time. My 2nd account nowadays is only used for saving my original "Hecki"-name while tournaments. It is not active for playing anymore.)

Thanks for your answers,

Hecki

[Updated on: Wed, 08 June 2011 11:05]

      
Sysyphus
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Re:Second accounts Wed, 08 June 2011 14:33
As it's a discussion we frequently have with Hecki since I shared my investigations to him, and as I faced the same problems towards 2 players, I therefore do agree with him.

It mainly concerns, nowadays, some multi players that realized that it's hard to keep their score high. So, they protect it by playing top 1600+ multis with their highest ranked accounts when they have a chance (which is quite scarce lately), and play random 1450/1500+ multis with their 2nd one.

By doing that, not only they protect their score and stay high, but they also bleed the score of their opponents thanks to their second accounts in those top multis, kill the ratings and lower them down...

To sum up, they reach the top of the rankings by winning multis (which I applaude cause it's quite hard) but they don't fight with their opponents on a fair ground.


Consequences ?

1) Top multis with true top multi players are almost not played any more.

2) Those so-called top multi players have no sense of etiquette. Was hard enough to make them understand that you can't play on a bot. Now, it's impossible to have them understanding that "2nd account" problem.

3) As those behaviours are widespreading, this turns to be the norm to newcomers or new upstarts.

4) Playing multis on those basis is now boring and annoying.


My thoughts.

1) I personally understand the frustration of having your score going down fast because of 2 or 3 unplayable multis after having fought like crazy to reach a decent score.

2) However, you'd gain tons more respect by staying in top 30 with your original account by playing multis than waiting an opportunity to be top 5 with a sleeping account. It's possible to be and to stay at the top of the rankings by playing multis with one account.

3) Thinking you can be 1600 by playing multis within 50 games without being recognized = you think your opponent is stupid.

4) I don't think this has to do with cheating but mostly to protect their score (even if they usually say they don't care about their score).
Watching a multi can be quite entertaining. I'd never think of playing a multi closed... And once again, you can be and stay at the top of the rankings by playing multis, and by playing multis open...

5) To have a true top multis, and in order to have a true intersting game, keep opening 1600+ / 1580+ or grant access to valuable players that you know.

Opening 1500+ might let you play with players that could be 1350 the previous day, and who play such an unthinkable way that they can destroy themselves and kill you in the same time by playing a 1300+ way. I don't mind being destroyed, but being destroyed by a guy who lays tracks at the 4 sides of the board, and who usually don't connect cause his connections are based on pure luck (cause, yes, multi games are not mainly based on luck), is really not fun... But that's not a valuable reason to open a 2nd account if you then play top multi players with it.

6) Deny access to those 2nd accounts and make them play with their first accounts. And if they don't accept, deny access to both accounts.
In order to help : I don't mind giving the name of people concerned.

Danipo7/Nahuel : currently 1694 with his first account. He realized by being 1700 is quite fun and to leave it is not.. So he created Nahuel the same day as he left 1700.

Kaogum / acidcitrik-kaogummie : Opened a 2nd account to train on 2ers. But constantly plays multis with it.

Another (true) top multi player did that some months ago but immediately stop playing with that account. So, please Danipo and Kao, stop using that 2nd account and face your opponents on a fair ground.
As I said earlier, staying in top 20 and reaching top 5 or better with a multi course will give you much more respect from the community than doing it an unethical way.


PS : Those comments might sound snob, but it's important to me to keep and preserve some standards of playing for multi players.




[Updated on: Wed, 08 June 2011 15:48]

      
Mr Bean
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Re:Second accounts Wed, 08 June 2011 21:53
I agree totally, Hecki. Can't see any point in these 2nd accounts and they raise suspicions.

If you feel you have to, at least be open about it and call it xxx (name of first account) 2 or something like that, so you are recognizable for who you are. That would make it easier to avoid you !

Whatever can be wrong with playing your games open and with 1 account? Is it so hard to do?!?
      
DrakeStorm
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Re:Second accounts Thu, 09 June 2011 00:53
What if a second account has a higher rating, then is the first account really the second account, and the second account is the first account....

And shouldn't you really be playing 2P and Multis on separate accounts, since mixing the 2 messes up with one's true score/rating?

Getting a bunch of 2P points and then playing multis and losing then inflates the multi player's scores. I went from 1700 to 1500 playing multis, then climbed back up to 1650 mostly playing 2P.

I do agree it is annoying to play someone who is 1400 but plays like a 1600. Happens to me sometimes playing 1910/Mega/Swiss. Obviously a top who wants to try out the other maps and keep their score. Why not ask just to play unrated or something.

      
Chripo
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Re:Second accounts Fri, 10 June 2011 17:05
As everybody can imagine I agree with the Idea of having 2 accounts; but I also respect all others who doesnt;t like that idea. For methere was never an incongruence in having it, because I never saw a point of acting unethically, distorsioning the competition, or even cheating.

My reasons are quite simple:
First I want to say that I like to play specially multis when there is the opportunity with persons with similar habilities, normally people ranked beginning with 1400. Beside the fun of playing it I also like to improve my scores as a way to see how good or bad I am. After several times going like an elevator between 1500 and 1670 I noticed that once you are on an high score and play against people with much lower score the relation between winning points or loosing it is quite unequal (by a win you receive around 10 points and of you loose they take you up to 25 points), but for the fun you keep playing with them, people you already know and where is a nice ambient.

Very rarely top players have joined multi games with 1500/1400 scores and its quite usual that they play 2. or multis between themselves having always an equal relation between winning points and loosing points. Thats fine for me, but in order to have an opportunity to reach a fair score you must do the same. As I specially like multis and I also dont want to stop playing just because to maintain my score, I decided to open this new account and keep having fun, without missing the opportunity to compete for scores on a fair ground.

There are several ways to assure you staying at the top: not playing anymore, play unrated games, play between people with similar scores, or have a 2. account if you llike to play with other people as well. I dont see the difference.

I have read the arguments from DD Hecki and Sysyphus, and I still dont think thats a bad thing. If somebody wants to cheat there are multiple ways to do it, and if you really wants to cheat it makes no sense for me to open a 2. account and telling who you really are, like Kaogum and I did. Maybe there are a few persons who didnt know or still dont know, but I try to make sure that the persons I usually play with know who I am. There was a suggestion to change the name of my second account to a similar one like the first account. If this helps in a way there is no problem, from now on I am Danipo78-2, so those people who have reasons not to play with a 2. account can avoid me. No problem with that. For the other argument that my second account doesnt show my real strength, well, I need to say that before I had a 2. account my score went from 1500 to 1650 constantly like now my 2. does. Does it mean I am stronger or weaker? No, its just that I also like to play with lower scores too and I explained it before. Thats all.

Said all that I want to point out an important issue. For the last days I have read lots of opinions in the chat, and in lots of cases I have seen negative actitudes, destructive arguments or even insults concerning this matter. Is it really necessary to discredit a fellow because of a 2. account? Are there no other ways to argue about it, if its fair or unfair? A few people have their oppinions about why we do have 2. accounts, but it would have been easier just to ask in a civil way, what a few people did and I explained them. We shouldnt loose the respect in how we treat us. Also the way Sysyphus tried to explain my reasons are not very nice, and I didnt opened my 2. account once I reached 1700 points; I had around 1650 when I opened the 2. one and it was a few days before I reached 1700. In fact they asked me in that moment to change my account to the 1. in order to play a high rated multi, and then I reached the 1700 and the next game I went down to 1694. Not that this fact really matters to me, but once we write something about others it should be at least true and respectfull. On the other hand I do appreciate actitudes like Yaelkas who told me in a polite way they dont want to play with 2. accounts.

Its a nice thing having a nickname but in a way we are still anonymous, so dont act irrespectfully covered by anonymatus. Everything can be discussed in a polite way, even if we dont know each other, or dont agree with other opinions.

Sorry for my English, but I hope I made my points understandable.

[Updated on: Fri, 10 June 2011 20:54]

      
Hecki
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Re:Second accounts Fri, 10 June 2011 21:06
I have never heard that Andrea Petkovic or Rafael Nadal are playing tennis under a different (2nd) name when they want to blow away some top-2000-players. Sorry, Danipo, but I still believe that your concept of 2nd accounts is against the spirit of true sportsmanship - and I hope you will learn that some day.

And is something wrong right only because other players like Kao are doing the wrong thing too? Just to think about.

(Btw: Ich hatte Deinen Namen hier im Ursprungsthread nicht erwähnt, weil ich die Diskussion gerne geführt hätte, ohne einzelne Spieler herauszugreifen. Aber gut, jetzt isses halt doch geschehen.)
      
blubes
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Re:Second accounts Sat, 11 June 2011 07:55
eh,

i like playing multi with kao and dani and will continue to do so
they are both friendly and fun

sysy and hecki make great points though kao and dani and you both should prolly respect their wisdom on this 2nd account business

either way i'll still be battling it out with all multi folks regardless

blubes
      
Sysyphus
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Re:Second accounts Sat, 11 June 2011 12:58
Dani, I was personally not satisfied with that behaviour because :

dani says


because I never saw a point of acting unethically, distorsioning the competition


1) You entered a multi I opened without telling this was your 2nd account.


2) If you tell the community that now, it's because I found out Nahuel was your 2nd account (I can still quote you in the lobby : "How did you know it is me ?") and that you had no choice but making it public.


3) You kept entering other games without letting your opponent know about it : you entered a 2er with Mudda (bad move Laughing ), Mudda didn't play you after I told him.

Changing your nick is good move to preserve ethics.
Though, some things remain to be a problem to me.

Dani says


After several times going like an elevator between 1500 and 1670 I noticed that once you are on an high score and play against people with much lower score the relation between winning points or loosing it is quite unequal




4) Now, you're complaining that there are 2 levels of multis, which is right, so that you need 2 accounts to save your score.
But by playing those kind of multis with a second account, you encourage those games to happen more often.

nahuel says


Very rarely top players have joined multi games with 1500/1400 scores and its quite usual that they play 2.



Where are the top multis right now ? Almost inexistant. There won't be other games like that if you keep playing with your second accounts and don't with your first one.

Do I see Danipo or Kao opening a 1600+ game ? No. You just stall in the rankings...

And if you are 1550 with your second account, 1694 might not be your real strength then...


5) If I open 1600+, it's a way for me to have a certain level of play. Playing with some so-called top multi players because they are 1500+ can be not fun at all...

Drake, I also understand that multi players can be under 1600 because of bad streaks and I'd let you enter my game even if you're under 1600+... and it works for tons other players ( i.e. blubes, tinman, Elka, Hecki -hihi Razz - , U32, Knockando, etc..) if it happens and I'm sure they know it. And if it happens I'm under 16, I'd still not play some kind of players because it's not fun to me.

6)
I personally didn't insult you...

There's an etiquette, I should say an "ethiquette", to preserve the standards of the game, the value of the rankings and the fairness of a game. We tried to explain it to you, even here in the forum (respectfully...)


danahuel says


I didnt opened my 2. account once I reached 1700 points; I had around 1650 when I opened the 2. one and it was a few days before I reached 1700.


The day you opened it, 27th of May, you were 1690 or top ten...

[Updated on: Sat, 11 June 2011 13:04]

      
THEBEEF
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Re:Second accounts Sat, 11 June 2011 18:31
Hi Hecki,

Present in the lobby in the evening of your conversation with Danipo, this one interested me because I had had the same with Belelule some weeks before.

I don't know if we're right or not, but one thing is sure, this community goes more and more badly, and the multiple accounts are a real gangrene for this game.

I like playing multis and I have the pleasure to play frequently on EU map with players for whom I have a profound respect and do not need to protect themselves behind a second account.

Thank you Womble, TT, Sysy, Val and Heizer from the Top player (sorry for those I've forgotten) and thank you very much in all those of my level with whom I play more regularly as Alima, Iron, Fitz, Snow, Hulu etc.....

For the moment on EU map, only Belelule decided to protect his ranking by using Lehmix account in multi. This trend seems to become widespread in particular on the US map.

Then yes Hecki, all this makes me sad because I believe that all players who use several accounts destroy the spirit of the game.

Other disturbing fact: This game exists for 7 years, I am registered only for 2 years and only 3 players (Boman, sysy, Womble) better classified than I played more multis than me. I wonder how many players have changed their names since the beginning.

Difficult to resist to be the other thing than what we are really, especially in the digital life.
      
eric
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Re:Second accounts Sat, 11 June 2011 18:38
DD-Hecki wrote on Tue, 07 June 2011 18:15

Hi folks,

In the last weeks several good 1500+ or 1600+ players created second accounts. I still don't understand the reasons for that.

Hecki


This is actually much more likely due to the fact that lots of these people may have purchased a copy of Ticket to Ride iPad and choose to play with their Game Center account while on the iPad, in addition to using their DoW Online account on Macs/PCs. Nothing nefarious.
      
DrakeStorm
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Re:Second accounts Sat, 11 June 2011 22:40
eric wrote on Sat, 11 June 2011 09:38

DD-Hecki wrote on Tue, 07 June 2011 18:15

Hi folks,

In the last weeks several good 1500+ or 1600+ players created second accounts. I still don't understand the reasons for that.

Hecki


This is actually much more likely due to the fact that lots of these people may have purchased a copy of Ticket to Ride iPad and choose to play with their Game Center account while on the iPad, in addition to using their DoW Online account on Macs/PCs. Nothing nefarious.


I bet at most 1-2 top TTR players have an IPad, and of those 0 maybe 1 have purchased TTR for the IPad.
      
GenuineFauxFarm
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Re:Second accounts Sun, 12 June 2011 00:33
"Nefarious" now that's a good word.

I don't get the feeling that people are suggesting that anyone is out to 'get' anyone else. On the other hand...

I saw the same thing happen in another activity I was involved in some years ago. People began to enter themselves multiple times - and what was the result of it? The number of players went down - even if entries stayed the same.

Think of it this way. Player X plays under 3 accounts. Player X is a top 100 player. Player X's three accounts will likely settle somewhere in the top 100 (OR SO). Now one person occupies three of the top 100 slots. But, when enough top 100's have 2 or 3 accounts - then the top 100 becomes really only the top 75.

Why do I care? I have only TWO reasons.

1. I like to play the top players. But, if people ahead of me are taking 2 or 3 spots, then my ranking is artificially low. My ego doesn't need the ranking to feel good about myself. But, I need an honest ranking to be *ALLOWED* to play in those games. You are taking that honest ranking away from players such as myself - and therefore exclude me from games I am good enough to play in.

Perhaps I take labels on games too seriously. But, I strongly believe that the person setting the table sets the entry rule. I *always* ask before entering if I don't meet the requirements set. And, even then I wait until it seems the game will not fill quickly before I ask.

BEFORE you tell me, "But GFF, you *know* you are welcome in my games.." Thanks for that. But, I also *know* there are times when my score makes you weary - why? Because I *can* and *have* beaten you - and taken points away from you - and not just because I was lucky and you were not. And, because people who have said this to me have also set up games where I am certainly to be excluded (as is their right to do).

2. I like to have some idea as to who I am playing - so lots of aliases doesn't help me there.

Thanks for listening. I am done now.

Rob
GFF
      
Sysyphus
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Re:Second accounts Sun, 12 June 2011 13:16
GenuineFauxFarm écrit le Sun, 12 June 2011 00:33

"Nefarious" now that's a good word.


1. I like to play the top players. But, if people ahead of me are taking 2 or 3 spots, then my ranking is artificially low.


+1. It indeed doesn't affect only top players. It does affect a large range of multi players.


Quote:



BEFORE you tell me, "But GFF, you *know* you are welcome in my games.." Thanks for that. But, I also *know* there are times when my score makes you weary - why? Because I *can* and *have* beaten you - and taken points away from you - and not just because I was lucky and you were not. .





Well, more than a question of being weary, the requirements are set to accept a certain level of play. If you can't enter sometimes, it's because you're not consistent. Don't see arrogance there...

I also faced that situation... any player faces that situation : I tried to reach the level required by playing and inflating my rating by winning. I, therefore, could meet the requirements of games set instead of waiting for top players to lower the requirements.


Some might see it as arrogance but that works with any sports.
In soccer or any other team sports, League 1 teams don't meet teams of League 2 or 3 during the season. It's up to lower league teams to reach League 1.
To enter a tennis tourney, you need a certain ranking or you play lower-class tourneys (Challengers, Future) / try to go through the qualifications.

That's why, rather than lowering the standards, I'd rather defend that certain level of play.




Thx Beef, blubes and gff for giving your point of view.

See Dani, it's not a personal crusade from me or Hecki.
And you're not the first one. It's not a concern of 1600+ multi players...

Kostas did it with Vene, but agreed to stop it. Belelule does it too with Lehmix but doesn't seem to understand it (Thanks Beef for the reminder).

I'll say it one more time. There's an etiquette, a common unspoken agreement among players, existing to preseve the community.
It has already been threatened too often, so some of us think we are legit to voice up and defend it.



Edit : +1 with Drake about Ipad thing Smile

[Updated on: Sun, 12 June 2011 14:07]

      
GenuineFauxFarm
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Re:Second accounts Sun, 12 June 2011 15:38
Sysy,

No worries here. My comment regarding being 'weary' really had nothing to do with anyone in particular. As I said, everyone who opens a game has the right to set the requirements. All I am saying is this:

- Do not discount what I am saying about artificially low rankings because you have said I can play in your games. After all, we all know there are times you will *NOT* play with an admittedly inconsistent player such as myself.

And, yes, if I forced myself to play only when I wasn't tired and really wanted to compete, I suspect my score would be more consistent and a good deal higher. As I doubt I'll take any game quite that seriously*.......

Rob
GFF

*exception being when I represent a team.
      
THEBEEF
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Re:Second accounts Tue, 14 June 2011 22:19
Hi all,

Seen the numbers of contributors to this thread, it seems, that we are only 5 morons who play multi with a single account.


The quality of this game deserved certainly much more authenticity on behalf of those who practice it.

I am persuaded that this community in its big majority has to have for slogan.

" No matter the way, only the result counts "

Just sad, sad for this game, sad for your childs.
      
Kaogum
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Kao : 2nd account Tue, 14 June 2011 23:52
hi all.

I'd like to explain myself with my bad english :

- first , when I paid for this second account , I did it cause there were no 1400+ multi players to play with in the day (french time) ... then I figured I could train 2ers cause I wasn't good at it... but still playing low ranked multis with this account. (I still do prefer playing multi)

- second, I never thought I would reach a high score that fast, actually I was 1500+ with both of my accounts , and I quite increased the both accounts to 1600 in the mean time.

- and yeah I can honestly say that it's more confortable to play with a nickname while you know the other is staying at the same highrank ... I cannot say I'm proud of more easily keeping my points that way. but I never created my second account in that goal. And so I never saw it as cheating , cause cheating is not a part of me, I would hate winning by cheating.

-I'd like to say I could have never said it's me , but I said it cause I like the people who I play with.

-I"m sorry I take two spots on the rankings , but that's all I'll take cause I would never pay for a 3rd account. (maybe to train europe lol... just joking)


-Now I'd like to keep playing with my second account on 2ers , and 1400+ ; 1500+ games.
And I'd be completly good to play with my highest ranked account (or the account they want) with 1600+ players who has a problem with me having two accounts.

and I can understand that, cause I already had that feeling on gof , but never ignored or told anything to the double account's person in question ; in fact I didn't know her at that time , now that I do know her a bit , and before I got my second account I was totally cool with it.
I feel like I'm playing for so many years on many sites with people who behave totally differently that I don't much care anymore of things that seem futile to me, (what I care about is meeting nice people).

-my view about rankings and this game : this is just a game , no money wining , no gifts , I wish I could reach 1700+ or be first place once, that's all. althought I think the rankings is not how u get respect or show how strong u are : it's playing with people that make them know that u don't play stupid, that u are not loathsome, and that u are not making things in order to kill the spirit of the game.

-I would never insult someone , ignore (except for cheating) or whatever... besides, I don't feel like It's irrespectfull to have a second account cause I wouldn't mind if everyone was making that too. and I don't feel like it changes anything about how people want to keep playing their games.

-of course I'm not playing championship; not playing TTR as long as some others did and so maybe I'm not taking it as seriously as some people , or don't understand the consequences of such a thing as being many people having a 2nd account.

-about 1600+ games , I don't open those cause I prefer to not wait 30 minutes to play 20 minutes. and I also like to play with all the players that are less ranked cause they are nice too:
TTR players I mostly play with, are somehow my cyberfriends.

I like to play TTR , and I like to keep good relations with people in order to keep liking TTR.

Now I paid for a second account , I would find it sad to have to separate my self from it , but I can still do it, or starting to play a lot less in general,if this story takes too much proportions or if people force me too.( discussions first would be nice, before ignoring for example ,don't know if u planned that Wink

Hope that u people understand my naive point of vew. I'm indeed sensible , and care to be able to play relaxing games without judging people or being judged by people.

I can also understand feelings of others, and for now things that have been said are not making me angry , just concerned.


everything I wrote here is my (messy) opinion, NOT a judgement on others way of thinking , or an absolute truth.

mes sincères salutations.


Amandine/Kaogum/Kaogummie.









      
Sysyphus
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Re:Kao : 2nd account Wed, 15 June 2011 16:49
Quote:

And so I never saw it as cheating , cause cheating is not a part of me, I would hate winning by cheating.



If u want more support on that point, I can say it again... Kao and Danipo don't do that in order to cheat.

Quote:


-I"m sorry I take two spots on the rankings , but that's all I'll take cause I would never pay for a 3rd account. (maybe to train europe lol... just joking)



Wish GSV3, alias Aioli, alias oxtrexi, alias thib8315 would say that out loud Twisted Evil even if he doesn't try to hide either..


Kaogum écrit le Tue, 14 June 2011 23:52


I cannot say I'm proud of more easily keeping my points that way. but I never created my second account in that goal.
(...)

(...) I don't much care anymore of things that seem futile to me.

(...)
this is just a game , no money wining , no gifts , I wish I could reach 1700+ or be first place once, that's all.
(...)

-of course I'm not playing championship; not playing TTR as long as some others did and so maybe I'm not taking it as seriously as some people




That's why I don't understand you Kao... You're saying you don't care about winning, about these futile things, you don't take it seriously and, still, you're saving your rankings.
The feeling that transpires reading this is that you didn't create your account to have fun with your friends...If it was really the case you'd use only one account.

2nd account was created to stay high.
And as both accounts are regularly at the same level, contrary to Danipo, there's even less reason to own them both !


Like you, I think it possible to reach a top 10 rankings playing random 1500+ people/friends by playing multis.
Like you also, I built tons of frustration to lose tons of points with my account. Tons of other multi players that reached top 10 rankings felt tons more frustration than a 2er player cuz of that.

Like me and some others..after being 1 time or 2 times in top 10, you want to stay there regularly, you ended up taking it seriously and want to be number 1. That's the spirit of competition, and there's nothing wrong with it.

But contrary to you, I didn't create a second account to reach number 1..because I thought it was possible (and it is) to get it by playing multis with one account.
And because I still think it kills the spirit and the fairness of the competition for your opponents who are trying to do the same.

You guys understood the way to play multis. Some good 2er specialists are still trying to figure it out Laughing , and old specialist are still trying to understand what has happened to them over those last 3 years.

But, sincerely, you are skilled enough to reach a nice ranking without a second account and therefore don't need it.

[Updated on: Wed, 15 June 2011 16:51]

      
Pepina
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Re:Kao : 2nd account Wed, 15 June 2011 22:38
well : I created it not because I thought I couldn't reach number one without , just because I first wanted to play with the only people who were there around 11AM 12AM 13AM : 1200+ , 1300+ players.

and that's all. and I'll keep playing with lower scores with kaogummie.

cause I do a bit care of staying in competition with Kaogum , and I'm not afraid to play with it (1550+ preference) with anyone who asks me to...

so... where is the problem ?

I'm happy to be able to choose between two accounts because I'm playing a loooot , if I was playing less it would be equal with the time I pass playing with one of my accounts.. Is it a crime to be able to play a lot with two accounts and therefore being able to play with lower scores too ? do you play multis against 1400 players when u are 1690 ? do I have to wait for 1600+ players being there if I want to play a multi ?
I can do that with kaogummie.

It's fun to keep a great score and improve it... not a goal in my life.

I thought I had quite written a message before that was leading to an open discussion , not making bad summarys of my sentences by trying to see contradictions in what I wrote. that's not the subject here ... I do think you're taking this game too much seriously and seeing problems where there isn't any.

the only problem here is that u start giving to people who make this game live by playing a lot, a sickness of this game.

that would not be a bad thing if I stop playing by the way; just will regret some players that just let the others breathing, without pointing them with the finger for any little whim they had in this game.


no surprise u don't understand me , your idea of what is ethical seems to be closed minded.

je sais je suis pas sympa là mais faut pas me répondre par un message où il est trop facile de critiquer les phrases des gens sans essayer de régler le problème a l'amiable. d'où mon manque de pincettes ici.

si tu veux que j'épluche tes arguments, je peux le faire aussi mais c'est pas comme ça qu'on fait des compromis et de toute façon avec ce que je viens d'écrire peu m'importe l'issue de cette histoire ,à moins que tu réalises que ça va trop loin pour rien , j'irais jouer au tarot. ça me gonfle d'avoir à me justifier pour un jeu auquel j'aime bien jouer c'est tout.


      
ACP Miguel
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Re:Kao : 2nd account Wed, 15 June 2011 22:40
Kao 1st
Kaogum 2nd
Pepina 3rd?
      
Hecki
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Re:Kao : 2nd account Wed, 15 June 2011 22:49
loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

fantastic comedy show here - or is it candid camera?
      
Mr Bean
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Re:Kao : 2nd account Wed, 15 June 2011 23:06
Maybe we should all have 18 accounts :

1600+ USA 2 player
1600+ USA Multi
1600+ CH 2 player
1600+ CH Multi
1600+ EU 2 player
1600+ EU Multi

and then the same set for 1500+ and 1400+ ?!

If you feel like it, add 6 accounts for Mega Game, Big Cities, 1910 whatever ..............

Bored Bored Bored
      
DrakeStorm
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Re:Second accounts Wed, 15 June 2011 23:22
The rating/ranking system is supposed to measure your skill level. The problem is that multi/2P/the various maps are mixed together.

If I wanted to know how good I was at Europe Multi - I'd have no idea. I would have to create a seperate account and just play that.

EDIT: Mr. Bean beat me too it above, but...

So ideally you need like 4 accounts. 1) Only play 2 Player, 2) Only play USA Multi, 3) Only play Europe Multi, 4) Only play Other Multis.

It is also widely accepted that playing a low level player takes a different skill set than a high level player. SO to measure that skill you need MORE accounts. Probably 4 more. One of each of the above where you ONLY play low level players 1400 or less most likely.

So there you have it. 8 Accounts. I will be listing mine later...

Purist will want 21 Accounts. One for 2P, One for each multi map type (or opposite 1 for multi and 1 for each 2P map), then skill level differences really break down into 3 categories 1300 and below, 1300-1550, and 1550+. So 21 accounts. Now we are getting to Baron-Level!!

I first created a second account for a friend to play, then took it over and only played multi on it. It would be nice to have an account where I can play Swiss/1910/Mega multi without messing up my main multi score, but $10 or whatver it is to make an account isn't a high priority right now. Also a lot of the tournaments do seeding based on a rating where my score doesn't truly reflect my skill level due to all the maps/multi I play.

I think as long as you don't try to hide it, it isn't too bad. Players can decide to join or not join your game - as long as you tell the tops that you aren't on your higher rated account, etc.. Clogging up the front page of the rankings is another story.

[Updated on: Wed, 15 June 2011 23:23]

      
Kaogum
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Re:Second accounts Wed, 15 June 2011 23:45
looool pepina is my sister in law , I'm at my brother's home , , and I didn't noticed I was on her account , account which I don't know the password ! but lol indeed.
      
Pepina
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Re:Second accounts Wed, 15 June 2011 23:55
Indeed, i confirm. Kao is my sister in law, and i'll never allow her to play with my account. I was playing when she came in, and didn't disconnected myself. I can prove it : look at my rank Wink More seriously, we just played gof together, ask ~maf.

I just play for fun, not to be the first.

But as far as I am concerned, I don't really see where the problem of having several accounts is : you pay to play, everyone is able to create a lot of accounts... So, it's up to everyone.

My humble opinion.

(PS : Kaogum is asking me to say that she likes when Drakestorm does some maths)
      
ACP Miguel
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Re:Second accounts Thu, 16 June 2011 00:13
if someone A is sister in law of B, then B is brother in law of A?

or am i mistaken...?

[Updated on: Thu, 16 June 2011 00:13]

      
Kaogum
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Re:Second accounts Thu, 16 June 2011 00:15
we are both girls miguel , none of us can be brother in law .
      
ACP Miguel
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Re:Second accounts Thu, 16 June 2011 00:18
Smile but i thought i had u again Smile
      
Pepina
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Re:Second accounts Thu, 16 June 2011 00:20
Kaogum is asking me to say that she likes when miguelmarquez does some maths Razz
      
Kaogum
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Re:Second accounts Thu, 16 June 2011 00:20
Smile mouhahahaha this page starts to look a lot funnier.
      
ACP Miguel
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Re:Second accounts Thu, 16 June 2011 00:30
correction.

not math.


the idea was a syllogism Smile
      
Mr Bean
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Re:Second accounts Thu, 16 June 2011 00:33
Actually maybe i should reveal right now:

Miguel, DrakeStorm and Hecki are my 2nd, 3rd and 4th account Twisted Evil

Oh, and Sysyphus is my mother in law Cool
      
Kaogum
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Re:Second accounts Thu, 16 June 2011 00:39
loool multiple accounts ? u sound like evil Smile lol
      
ACP Miguel
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Re:Second accounts Thu, 16 June 2011 00:47
so u brought the family into the game Kagoum? that's nice
      
multicolor
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Re:Second accounts Thu, 16 June 2011 02:21
yeah they do have the board Smile but my sister in law is the only one playing on internet too.


why I answered with too much fervour earlier (on pepina's name) :

-I already told I would agree to pick highest rank account for anyone who has a pb with the 2 accounts.
-so why wanting more ? what is the problem if it's not just that people <who don't have 2 accounts think that they are doing the right thing and whish people do like them...that it's not fair if they don't do like them.

that is the resume of what u are telling us , empty arguments based on a frustration that people do what your conscience told u not to do. or an ununderstanding that people don't have the same consciousness.
good to have a conscience but let's stop the over thinking and be free to not judge honest people on their choices that have no "real" consequences on the site , the game , the players.
      
multicolor
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Re:Second accounts Thu, 16 June 2011 02:22
... may I add : please.
      
THEBEEF
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Re:Second accounts Thu, 16 June 2011 09:37
Bonjour,

I take advantage of the opening of the high school diploma test in France, by the traditional essay of philosophy, to subject you the following quotation:

I hurry up to laugh at everything for fear of having to cry for it. "Pierre Augustin Caron de BEAUMARCHAIS" Rolling Eyes

On behalf of somebody who does not understand any more much in everything. Sad
      
TIC wasdenn
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Re:Second accounts Thu, 16 June 2011 14:04
I would not want to play a multi account player's account with her/his highest ranking, but with the account with the ranking most representative of her/his skill in the specific flavor of the game, multi, 2p, Europe, US, whatever.

Playing always the highest account would be unfair for her/him, as I would get more points on average than I deserve based on the mutual skills at the game.

In this sense, it might even be considered unfair (against the multi special account players) to have only a single account, because the ranking then reflects a mix of skills, rather than the special skill Surprised.

Thus I vote for 21 (or more) accounts for each player, just like Mr. Bean and Drake, and changing the account for every game with another type as the previous one. Wink

Seriously, if somebody has more accounts, please use the "right" one when playing abainst me, depending on the type of game, then it is ok, and nobody gets cheated rankwise.

One problem with many specialised accounts is, that it takes longer for each one to get into a representative ranking range.

The cheating possibility is the strongest argument to ban multiple accounts entirely, however, and I would prefer everybody to use only a single account.

just my 2 cents
wd

Disclaimer:
Of course multi accounts must be transparent for the opponent, who needs to know whom he is playing against, and must not be used for any kind of cheating, as has too often been done in the past.

      
Kaogum
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Re:Second accounts Thu, 16 June 2011 14:39
I feel like I'll make some friends here...

"L'art de la citation est l'art de ceux qui ne savent pas réfléchir par eux même."
= Art of citation is the art of those who don't know how to think by themselves.( Voltaire.)

"se méfier des penseurs dont l'esprit ne fonctionne qu'à partir d'une citation"
"be wary of thinkers whom brain only works with citations"
(Emil Michel Cioran)

I avoided answering you the beef , cause I felt like you were the less constructive writter about this subject.

"we are gangrene" ,"killing the spirit of the game" "sad for your childs"...etc

u sound like a pancard in a demonstration. sorry , but there's nothing to talk about with you as far as you keep speaking only with presumptions.

I don't understand anything ? Well I'll use my diploma of never having struggles with anyone by never reproaching anything useless to anyone...

you are reproaching something to us , you are demanding too much towards what we already agreed to do.

someone wants to give 10 euros back to us ?

having a second acccount is not useless but not really usefull ether (like sysy said, and that's why I waited 3 years before giving a try to it) ,we are not doing anything wrong , the only thing u can reproach us is that we have been honest enough to tell who we were , not hidding , thinking that we were not doing anything bad for others..and I do think we don't do anything bad. .just wanting that our friends know it's us.
(I think drakestorm explained it well too in his "maths" message)

hidding is the worst , reproaching to people who do the things openly and honestly isn't nice and fair.

telling what you think about it is not forbidden , but making the balance between things, and chosing to let it go can be also a solution. specially towards people you know a bit by having playing a lot with them.

"etre bon, c'est etre en harmonie avec soi même. la discorde , c'est être forcé à être en harmonie avec les autres" Oscar Wilde.

"la discorde est le plus grand mal du genre humain , et la tolérance en est le seul remède" Voltaire.






      
Kaogum
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Re:Second accounts Thu, 16 June 2011 14:48
nice arguments Wasdenn , that's what I understand when I agree to play with the highest account with people who wants me too.

about the main argument : cheating , it doesn't apply to me and danipo cause people who wants to cheat just don't tell who they are.

Wink
      
Kaogum
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Re:Second accounts Thu, 16 June 2011 14:55
oh sorry the beef maybe I didn't understand well the last quotation u wrote ... we don't understand anything ? or you don't understand anything anymore?

anyway , I think your messages before sound too much committed in my opinion.

and I hope that you take things more peacefully, cause there's no real reason having struggles with us.
      
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