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tinsoldier
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Do you play with the Air Pack ? Thu, 29 September 2011 16:39
(everything is in the title)
I don't, too much distraction from the battle field.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Thu, 29 September 2011 16:45
Whenever I can! I really enjoy the added danger that the planes bring to a battle. Cool
      
Achtung Panzer
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Thu, 29 September 2011 17:34
Sometimes - and they add a dimension when I do. It's just that I can't always remember all the rules when I do!

Que shameless post from 50th... Laughing
      
red_zebra
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Thu, 29 September 2011 17:49
Every time I can (ie not forbidden by the rules) Laughing

I look at the air pack rules as "air support" more than "air combat"

      
rasmussen81
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Thu, 29 September 2011 17:52
Achtung Panzer wrote on Thu, 29 September 2011 19:34

Sometimes - and they add a dimension when I do. It's just that I can't always remember all the rules when I do!

Que shameless post from 50th... Laughing


How about a shameless plug by me?! I have trouble remembering the Air Rules as well and so I always use my Player Aid to help. Then all of the rules are in one place... Very Happy
      
Erik Uitdebroeck
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Thu, 29 September 2011 18:35
I'm with Red Zebra : I always play with Air Pack, except when it's forbidden by the rules.
      
JJAZ
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Thu, 29 September 2011 18:46
Some scenario's are a disaster with the air rules if only one side can use them.(and i know during the war that it sometimes was like that)
Otherwise i love them.
      
JFKoski
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Thu, 29 September 2011 20:48
When I first got it, I played a few scenarios, then lost interest in Memoir '44 for a couple years. At the start of this year, I started playing again including scenarios from Air Pack with Air Rules. I found I don't like having a plane flying around, risking losing a medal.

However, a quick Air Strike can change the odds of an unbalanced scenario. If my Air Check is 0, I'll keep going.
      
Erik Uitdebroeck
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Fri, 30 September 2011 07:36
Remember that you don't always risk a medal if you loose a plane. That chance is rather small.

[Updated on: Fri, 30 September 2011 07:37]

      
Aussie_Digger
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Fri, 30 September 2011 07:53
I do like the air rules and how they are used, it adds another layer of strategy to a scenario
      
Freeloading Phill
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Fri, 30 September 2011 07:56
Always unless it's not allowed by the scenario set up.

Of course planes don't always appear.

Phill
      
Fred the Obscure
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Fri, 30 September 2011 08:46
Greetings All,

I use the 'planes when ever I can. I think they look really cool flying over the battle field, very menacing.

And they add colour (since I use standard supplied troops)

Fred the Obscure,
Durban, South Africa.
      
djedi gamer
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Fri, 30 September 2011 09:45
I fly planes when I go on my vacations. Laughing
I don't use them on the board.
      
50th
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Fri, 30 September 2011 16:34
Achtung Panzer wrote on Thu, 29 September 2011 10:34

Sometimes - and they add a dimension when I do. It's just that I can't always remember all the rules when I do!

Que shameless post from 50th... Laughing


Why thank you!!

http://cdn.daysofwonder.com/uploads/userpages/272628/_4548.p df

(OK, couldn't resist!) Laughing

      
Scragnoth
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Fri, 30 September 2011 20:19
When possible I use them because they add to the flavour ...
      
Lujo
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Fri, 30 September 2011 22:59
Always when the rules allow and the opposing player knows the air rules well enough!
I'm delighted that the Breakthrough deck gave the planes new life with its 'on the move' cards so our plains fly much longer now Smile
      
eldonion
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Sat, 01 October 2011 14:12
Whenever i can provided that my opponent is familiar with the rules, otherwise it becomes too big an advantage.

They are excellent at digging out those pesky dug in rear artilliary!
      
Lujo
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Sat, 01 October 2011 17:30
eldonion wrote on Sat, 01 October 2011 14:12


They are excellent at digging out those pesky dug in rear artilliary!

Especially that!
Very Happy
      
TheMarshalUK
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Sun, 02 October 2011 12:11
Our Regiment uses the Air Pack when we can but we found on a "beer and pretzel" night some of the players forget the rules. So if we are playing overlord we tend to have a small house rule.

When the Air Pack is in play the Field Marshal doubles up as the Air Marshal So the usual restrictions on discussing tactics with the ground forces apply, but when a plane is in play he can discuss "air tactics" with any of his team.

I know that this could lead to "Cheeky cheating" but on a "beer and pretzels" night we keep it all in the spirit of the game. We found it gets round the issues of players that have forgotten or are unsure about the planes or maybe have had just 1 to many "pretzels" Razz Very Happy

[Updated on: Sun, 02 October 2011 12:14]

      
Erik Uitdebroeck
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Sun, 02 October 2011 17:50
TheMarshalUK wrote on Sun, 02 October 2011 12:11

Our Regiment uses the Air Pack when we can but we found on a "beer and pretzel" night some of the players forget the rules. So if we are playing overlord we tend to have a small house rule.

When the Air Pack is in play the Field Marshal doubles up as the Air Marshal So the usual restrictions on discussing tactics with the ground forces apply, but when a plane is in play he can discuss "air tactics" with any of his team.

I know that this could lead to "Cheeky cheating" but on a "beer and pretzels" night we keep it all in the spirit of the game. We found it gets round the issues of players that have forgotten or are unsure about the planes or maybe have had just 1 to many "pretzels" Razz Very Happy


Looks like fun !!! Smug
      
OldBloodandGuts
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Mon, 03 October 2011 16:29
I own but never use the Air Pack. I've written this before in posts, but air power in WW2 primarily played a strategic, not tactical, role, and M44 is primarily a ground tactical game, so it always seems out of place to me. I think the Air Power cards included with the base game adequately cover the limited tactical parts played by air power.
      
Achtung Panzer
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Mon, 03 October 2011 18:38
OldBloodandGuts wrote on Mon, 03 October 2011 15:29

I own but never use the Air Pack. I've written this before in posts, but air power in WW2 primarily played a strategic, not tactical, role, and M44 is primarily a ground tactical game, so it always seems out of place to me. I think the Air Power cards included with the base game adequately cover the limited tactical parts played by air power.


I see your point about strategic role of air cover, but strafing Rommel seems a pretty tactical situation worthy of a Memoir scenario... Rolling Eyes
      
pizzaboer
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Mon, 03 October 2011 21:27
I don't use the air pack very often because the rules are a bit complicated.
Air pack 2.0 with more simply rules would be welcome
      
tank commander
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Mon, 03 October 2011 22:18
Lujo wrote on Sat, 01 October 2011 11:30

eldonion wrote on Sat, 01 October 2011 14:12


They are excellent at digging out those pesky dug in rear artilliary!

Especially that!
Very Happy



Sometimes too good.

In back to back scenarios during a Falaise Branch Campaign (part of a Normandy Grand Campaign) I lost my arty -- in Whittman's Final Battle to a total of 4d - a 1d strafing flag then a 3d attack from a tank when I had to retreat to my baseline -- then in Opportunity at Falaise to two strafing attacks. so a total of 6 dice wiped out two arty units.

I think I only got off one attack with my arty.

Arty is usually an important part of a defensive position in most sceanrios and in these one could rightly say they are the keystone of the defense as they are placed in / around allied objective medal hexes.

What the use of the Air Rules did here was throw the balance of the scenarios totally out of whack.

I do use the Air Rules on occasion but in many scenarios their use can be decisive and not allow the "defender" in a scenario to sit back as he may very well be strafed to death.
      
OldBloodandGuts
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Tue, 04 October 2011 17:35
Achtung Panzer wrote on Mon, 03 October 2011 12:38


I see your point about strategic role of air cover, but strafing Rommel seems a pretty tactical situation worthy of a Memoir scenario... Rolling Eyes


I'm not familiar -- is "strafing Rommel" a scenario?
      
Achtung Panzer
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Tue, 04 October 2011 21:58
OldBloodandGuts wrote on Tue, 04 October 2011 16:35

Achtung Panzer wrote on Mon, 03 October 2011 12:38


I see your point about strategic role of air cover, but strafing Rommel seems a pretty tactical situation worthy of a Memoir scenario... Rolling Eyes


I'm not familiar -- is "strafing Rommel" a scenario?


Wink no, but an example of the local impact of aircover rather than strategic carpet bombing.

[Updated on: Tue, 04 October 2011 21:58]

      
OldBloodandGuts
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Wed, 05 October 2011 16:18
Achtung Panzer wrote on Tue, 04 October 2011 15:58

OldBloodandGuts wrote on Tue, 04 October 2011 16:35

Achtung Panzer wrote on Mon, 03 October 2011 12:38


I see your point about strategic role of air cover, but strafing Rommel seems a pretty tactical situation worthy of a Memoir scenario... Rolling Eyes


I'm not familiar -- is "strafing Rommel" a scenario?


Wink no, but an example of the local impact of aircover rather than strategic carpet bombing.



Ah, I see. No doubt air power played a huge role in diminishing German tanks throughout the war, on three or even four fronts (eastern, western, N. Africa, Italy).

But I would argue that is still an example of air power's strategic role. Who would want to play a scenario that is just airplanes strafing a column of tanks, after all -- especially since most of the tanks couldn't shoot back? Smile

What M44 gives you, and what I can't get behind, is air power attacking forces that are already engaged. Given the general chaos of the battlefield, the relatively poor communications and coordination between ground and air forces (particularly among the Axis countries), and the "dumb" weapons of the period, these strikes were very rare indeed in WW2. You had almost as good a chance of hitting your own troops as of hitting the enemy -- or of getting shot down by them.

It's a historic argument, I guess, and I could be wrong. And even with all that said, M44 is still a game, so people should play it how it's fun for them! Very Happy
      
50th
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Wed, 05 October 2011 16:30
But the air pack rules, as written, does not give you the same opportunity to disrupt communication, and the deployment of material that true ground interdiction did. Sure, under the air pack rules, you can keep a ground unit from moving, but what about after that? How many railroad bridges, locomotives, and stations were destroyed by ground interdiction? Under my air rules, you can do these things. conveys were strafed and bombed, bridges were destroyed, and telegraph wires were destroyed by bombs. These are the things that P-51's, P-47's and P-38's did after we had air superiority. They went after "targets of opportunity". I never felt that the air pack rules gave the player the same flavor of destroying bridges, trains, or generally creating havoc for ground forces. And I have always hated the air check system, I mean an air check for flying over a minefield??? I also always felt that even a solder on the battlefield could shoot at an airplane with his rifle, and sometimes they shot airplanes down. Tank columns had tracked or wheeled anti-aircraft units with them many times. My rules includes rules for anti-aircraft artillery (flak guns). While I don't think that anything I have come up with is perfect, I think it more accurately models the air and ground interdiction that was a part of the WWII battlefield.

      
Sgt Storm
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Wed, 05 October 2011 19:48
JJAZ wrote on Thu, 29 September 2011 12:46

Some scenario's are a disaster with the air rules if only one side can use them.(and i know during the war that it sometimes was like that)
Otherwise i love them.


I usually only play with air rules when both sides are permitted to fly airplanes to avoid any possible imbalance.

I also do not play the Air Power card as written and only allow Allies to roll 1 die.
      
OldBloodandGuts
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Wed, 05 October 2011 20:53
Sgt Storm wrote on Wed, 05 October 2011 13:48



I also do not play the Air Power card as written and only allow Allies to roll 1 die.


Ha! I do that one too (well, sort of)...depending on the month/year and theater of war. Late-war (post-D-Day) Europe I usually play the card as written. Early war Mediterranean or Eastern Front, I actually give the axis the two dice and the allies only one.
      
PanzerRunes
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Wed, 05 October 2011 23:23
I bought two copies of the Air Pack for some reason it rarely gets to the table.

I like the scenarios, planes and tiles but the rules just seem to... wonky.

I think the representation of air power is important for M'44 but feel it would have been better introduced/implemented through a deck like Urban Combat or Winter War.

      
ScreamingEagle
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Re:Do you play with the Air Pack ? Thu, 06 October 2011 03:53
PanzerRunes wrote on Wed, 05 October 2011 17:23

I bought two copies of the Air Pack for some reason it rarely gets to the table.

I like the scenarios, planes and tiles but the rules just seem to... wonky.

I think the representation of air power is important for M'44 but feel it would have been better introduced/implemented through a deck like Urban Combat or Winter War.




Well said. I still like playing with them though, just because their cool:)
      
    
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