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Red Is Dead
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How is this "Free to play"? Thu, 13 October 2011 02:22
Please don't advertise your game on Steam as Free to Play when you have to spend money to play it Rolling Eyes.
      
eric
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Thu, 13 October 2011 02:50
You are correct. It is not strictly Free to Play, but rather Free to download and play until you run out of your initial 50 Gold Ingots.

Unfortunately there is no Game category that precisely covers this type of offer on Steam. That is why we devoted a whole paragraph to describe this on the About the Game section of the Game's description on Steam.

But try it out and see for yourself. 50 Gold Ingots should be plenty enough to help you decide whether this is something you might like and want to spend some money on (or not!).

best,
eric
      
sam1812
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Thu, 13 October 2011 03:53
If the pricing on Steam is similar to the pricing on the DoW website (which includes a credit toward future DoW purchases), buying the big pack of ingots gets you nearly 1,000 games at less than 5 cents per game. For most people, a game averages 20-30 minutes. It works out to something like 400+ hours of play for a net cost of about $30.

So if you decide to go beyond the free introductory period, it's an incredible bargain.
      
Zathael
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Thu, 13 October 2011 08:32
I checked out the DoW packs vs the Steam packs, and most of them are not the same. Using Steam, you can purchase 125 GI for $5, 400 GI for $15, or you can buy 1000 GI for $30 and get access to Expert mode. The "incredible bargain" 2400 point pack that gives you Expert mode and also gives you credit towards a future DoW purchase for $60 doesn't exist.

That being said, I would never spend $60 on *any* computer game, let alone one that after spending that much, I don't own it. If the game were $20 and then I could play it for free forever, I would buy it without thinking twice. As it is, I don't know if I am going to continue playing once my free GI are gone. It is a great game, just too expensive to play it long term.

      
rasmussen81
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Thu, 13 October 2011 09:27
Zathael wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 10:32

That being said, I would never spend $60 on *any* computer game, let alone one that after spending that much, I don't own it. If the game were $20 and then I could play it for free forever, I would buy it without thinking twice. As it is, I don't know if I am going to continue playing once my free GI are gone. It is a great game, just too expensive to play it long term.




This is a sentiment shared by other players, but because of the continued work, development, and improvement of the game, it makes sense to me that they don't just charge a one-time fee. As it is, I don't have to pay a set amount for time I might not use on the game and my GI will last me for years.

But I understand your feelings and I know that others share your view. Enjoy the game while you have GI, and good luck! Cool
      
Zathael
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Thu, 13 October 2011 10:51
rasmussen81 wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 03:27

As it is, I don't have to pay a set amount for time I might not use on the game and my GI will last me for years.


See, that's the part I don't get. I have been playing the game for *one day* and have already used up half of my free GI points. So if 50 GI points = 2 days of play, then even the 1000 GI point pack would only last a little over a month. Confused
      
Nygaard
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Thu, 13 October 2011 11:30
Zathael wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 10:51

rasmussen81 wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 03:27

As it is, I don't have to pay a set amount for time I might not use on the game and my GI will last me for years.


See, that's the part I don't get. I have been playing the game for *one day* and have already used up half of my free GI points. So if 50 GI points = 2 days of play, then even the 1000 GI point pack would only last a little over a month. Confused


You know you "pay" GIs per game, not per day, right?

A game costs between 2 and 3 GIs. Giving you between 16 and 25 games. Each game lasts between 10 and 40 minutes (if it's longer than that it's an EPIC game). That gives you between 2.5 to 16.5 hours of game play for free. After that it's up to you if you like it enough to play with the rest of us.

A 1000 GI point pack gives you between 333 and 500 games, or between 55.5 and 333 hours of play. Believe me - 1000 GIs will last you a good long time, unless you keep playing Arracourt again and again... Smile

Magnus

[Updated on: Thu, 13 October 2011 11:31]

      
Zathael
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Thu, 13 October 2011 12:22
Nygaard wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 05:30

Zathael wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 10:51

rasmussen81 wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 03:27

As it is, I don't have to pay a set amount for time I might not use on the game and my GI will last me for years.


See, that's the part I don't get. I have been playing the game for *one day* and have already used up half of my free GI points. So if 50 GI points = 2 days of play, then even the 1000 GI point pack would only last a little over a month. Confused


You know you "pay" GIs per game, not per day, right?

A game costs between 2 and 3 GIs. Giving you between 16 and 25 games. Each game lasts between 10 and 40 minutes (if it's longer than that it's an EPIC game). That gives you between 2.5 to 16.5 hours of game play for free. After that it's up to you if you like it enough to play with the rest of us.

A 1000 GI point pack gives you between 333 and 500 games, or between 55.5 and 333 hours of play. Believe me - 1000 GIs will last you a good long time, unless you keep playing Arracourt again and again... Smile

Magnus




I know I pay GI's per game, not per day. I am saying that because I like this game, I have already played it 10 times *today*, taking 3.7 hours and costing me 26 of my free GI. If I spent 26 GI per day, every day, a 1000 point pack would last me approximately 38 days.

Maybe that amount of playtime is considered excessive by most of the people here. It may be that this game was designed with the idea that someone would only play it a couple nights a week, for only an hour at a time. I am not that type of gamer. Once I find a game I like, I will play it constantly. That is what is so frustrating about this game. I really like it, but absolutely cannot afford to play it as often as I would want to.

      
silenttimo
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Thu, 13 October 2011 12:45
Zathael écrit le Thu, 13 October 2011 12:22

I know I pay GI's per game, not per day.
(...) If I spent 26 GI per day, every day, a 1000 point pack would last me approximately 38 days.


You'll see that some maps (meatgrinder, red barricades, 1st wave, at the doors of Moscow...) will require more time to be played.
And you may play with guys who thinks a lot before drawing a card (I have met some players who take time to play, analyzing everything !).
I would say one of the last time I played "red barricades", the 1st game (me being russian) lasted about 40-45 minutes !
It was about 1h15-1h20 for 2 games !!

Zathael écrit le Thu, 13 October 2011 12:22

Maybe that amount of playtime is considered excessive by most of the people here. It may be that this game was designed with the idea that someone would only play it a couple nights a week, for only an hour at a time.

Yes it is.
And I love that game. Can't spare enough time to play it more than 6-8 hours a week.

You'll see that :
- if you work (job or studies) ;
- if you live maritally ;
- if you have kids ;
- if you hang out with friends ;
- if you read / watch movies / go to see exhibitions (paintings, sculpturs, anything !) ;
- if you have any activity related to a sport ;
- if sometimes you taker a few days off WITHOUT an internet's access ;

your amount of GIs will last quite a time.

You want your GIs to last longer !?
Get a job, find the right wife, have some kids, make lots of friends, go out, and they will last longer !
Very Happy


I played about 270 games in over a 3-months time, and still I have over 550 GIs.

(after using my free GIs, buying a sergent pack then a major pack : 1250 GIs overall)

You may also buy the "colonel pack" : 2400 GIs !!
That's MANY hours and days of play !

[Updated on: Thu, 13 October 2011 12:45]

      
player833882
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Thu, 13 October 2011 13:03
I just want to say, as much as I like DoW boardgames, I am amazed how many different tactics developers come up with all the time to keep charging us constantly. Good old days, you went out, bought a game, installed it, played as much as you liked. Then after a reasonable time an expansion might be released packed with content. And multiplayer used to be free.

Now you have subscriptions.
You have DLCs that are in many cases just some multiplayer maps that used to be free charged for a lot of money considering their value, but due to the structure of multiplayer matchmaking in said games if you don't get it, you can forget playing multiplayer at all.
You have item shops, which in the good case scenario sell only cosmetic items, but in worse cases also sell power, making the whole game pointless, why play when you can pay to win?

And now you have this. And I resent it with all my heart. I hope noone of the big game companies will see this and decide it's a good idea. This again is a threat to my gaming days, just like the above mentioned things, but maybe even worse. This is like those coin eating machines at an arcade, except in my home. Imagine playing gears of war where you have to play for each chapter and then every time you want to play a multiplayer game. Or starcraft, or anything else. Nonononononono!

And just one more thing, to reply to the above poster. What kind of a justification for this pricing structure is "if you make yourself not to have time to play it, you don't have to pay so much"?

[Updated on: Thu, 13 October 2011 13:04]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Thu, 13 October 2011 14:58
player833882 wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 15:03

And now you have this. And I resent it with all my heart. I hope noone of the big game companies will see this and decide it's a good idea. This again is a threat to my gaming days, just like the above mentioned things, but maybe even worse. This is like those coin eating machines at an arcade, except in my home. Imagine playing gears of war where you have to play for each chapter and then every time you want to play a multiplayer game. Or starcraft, or anything else. Nonononononono!

And just one more thing, to reply to the above poster. What kind of a justification for this pricing structure is "if you make yourself not to have time to play it, you don't have to pay so much"?


All of these points and many more were brought up when this game first came out. After a slight modification, DoW seems to have decided on a pay-to-play system where you buy Gold Ingots and play as much as you want until you run out. Some players don't like the plan because they want to play constantly (which means it's a good game) or because it goes against their sense of 'fair'.

Either way, the pricing system is not likely to change. Either you are willing to pay to keep playing the game, or you aren't. For many of us, it's well worth the money and we are happy to play our favorite board game online. For others, they would rather buy a video game, buy it once, and play it forever!

I hope you'll discover that you like the game so much that you're willing to buy some more GI, but if not we'll understand. Cool
      
JamesJacked
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Thu, 13 October 2011 15:02
I'm with Zathael on this one. I've already run out of credits on my steam account. I quite liked the game but it wasn't made clear anywhere as far as I can see about this 50 gold limit.

When I loaded in first time and saw that expert was not available I figured there was probably a paid version plus access to other maps and that the basic version was free as advertised.

TBH I think you should go this basic and paid version rather than micro transactions. I'd pay for this game £5 - £10 for access to everything but not nickel and dime over 1000 points. Psychologically that's not an investment.

I believe these board game players might think that's a lot but steam players can easily rack up 50 hours a week.

I didn't even get to play multiplayer I spent 50 on solo and that lasted 4hrs according to steam. I didn't even see the gold until it was down to 2.

It's disappointing.
      
stevens
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Thu, 13 October 2011 16:52
Quote:

I believe these board game players might think that's a lot but steam players can easily rack up 50 hours a week.


Consider the cost as a form of behaviour modification. If you are spending 50 hours a week playing video games, you might need to consider doing something else. All of life costs something... that's why we call it spending time.

Very Happy



[Updated on: Thu, 13 October 2011 16:59]

      
Nygaard
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Thu, 13 October 2011 17:19
player833882 wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 13:03

(snip)
And now you have this. And I resent it with all my heart. I hope noone of the big game companies will see this and decide it's a good idea. This again is a threat to my gaming days, just like the above mentioned things, but maybe even worse. This is like those coin eating machines at an arcade, except in my home. Imagine playing gears of war where you have to play for each chapter and then every time you want to play a multiplayer game. Or starcraft, or anything else. Nonononononono!
(snip)


How is it a new thing to pay for what you use? Pay-per-view has been around for ages.
How's it their responsability if you can't stop feeding coins into the "arcade machines"?

DoW need a steady revenue to keep developing their games. They do this by selling expansions to their board games, and by charging a fee for using their online services. If you don't want to pay, you don't have to. If the price is too high, well then it's DoW's problem, because they loose customers.

I, for one, like the model because it roots out those who don't take it serious enough to pay. "Free" online games are teeming with people (mostly kids it seems) who have nothing better to do than ruining other people's fun.

Anyway, that's my 0.02 DKK,
Magnus
      
Henry Pelham
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Thu, 13 October 2011 17:38
50 hours a week of time to spend on a computer, and you can't afford to pay 30 cents an hour? That is so decadent. It is living like a retired millionaire on a twelve-year-old's allowance.

I like the micropayments because I want to support game development and like the idea of a world where people have jobs making and improving games like this. I like them even more if they keep out children and whiny full-grown parasites.

There is a lot of greed in the world that is worth being angry about. Charging 30 cents an hour to play a game of this complexity is not an example of this.

[Updated on: Thu, 13 October 2011 17:38]

      
Blastpop
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Thu, 13 October 2011 17:40
I tend to play in fits and starts. For those who play a game constantly as is apparent by some of the Steam players, maybe a higher upper level GI structure could be implemented.

As an example: for $100 you would get, say 2500 points and 25% off all future GI points as a possible example. I am sure the details would need to be refined.

It would encourage game loyalty and repeat play and for those who play all the time, their marathon play would be rewarded. When the games interest in the future wanes, it might keep opponents available in the lobby.
      
player833882
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Thu, 13 October 2011 18:10
Nygaard wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 11:19


How is it a new thing to pay for what you use? Pay-per-view has been around for ages.
How's it their responsability if you can't stop feeding coins into the "arcade machines"?



It's been around, yes, but you don't usualy pay to view than pay to view again. It's used for movies and big sporting events that are special and you don't want to miss. Not for everyday programmes. And also I'm unaware of any case where pay-per-view landed its feet in videogaming before now, and I'm just not happy to see it.

It's not their responsibility, and I don't have that problem, because I've never thrown a coin into any of those. They can do what they want, I'm sure many will pay, and it will work well for them. I'm just sad, that's all. Fortunately I don't have to pay/play for boardgames yet, unfortunately I don't have as much chances to play with them as I'd have online, but o well, life's tough Smile
      
JamesJacked
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Thu, 13 October 2011 18:12
Okay 50 hours is excessive, but what!? You can't criticise someone for their hobbies. [@Henry where does parasite come into it, you want customers or not? Don't act like micropayments are the only way to support game development. Clearly they are not.]

I've got 41.9 hrs in the past 2 weeks spread over different games, it's not always like that though, and I do other things.

My point was you might spend 10-30hrs on a shooter or 50-70 hours on a single player game, but some (especially strategy games) are much more, especially over the lifetime of owning a product.. The gold bars are per game as well, which can go fast in solo, not time.

Some examples of time I've put into games over their lifetime:
Frozen Synapse 147 hours
Dawn of War 2 :retribution 405 hours
Dawn of War 2 : Chaos Rising 33 hours
Dawn of war 2 55 hours
Civ 5: beyond the sword 235 hours
Stalker: soc 73hours

There's probably another 10 games with 15-20 hours on them each, I've had steam from 2009 and have 171 games. I'll also point out when you buy a game you have no idea how much time you will put in to it, so buying it outright for a set price is valuable.

I, and I imagine a lot of others, have bought all of these games ONCE. Now even if I spent the same amount of time playing M44 the fact is when I have spent that same amount of time I then need to spend even more to continue playing.

You can complain about time/money ratios all you like but when the competition is offering the same then taking away the psychological barrier is important in selling your game.

just a p.s on the cost: £13 for 400credits, that's only 200 games!! The next one was £27 for 1000= 500 games. News flash most people wait for steam sales at the £5-10, even new super hyped games are £30 and drop quickly after two months ordering a boxed copy and activating on steam.

Frankly the longer someone plays your game the more chance they will buy something, so keep some of the single player maps free. Offer some free multipler games, ideally release the full game for £13 at most.
      
sdnative
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Thu, 13 October 2011 18:15
I do enjoy M44 but do not like the current system of pay as you play and seems expensive to me the $8 pack could be $5 etc.
What about letting players pay a monthly fee and play as much as they like? Or having a sale where you can buy gold at 30 to 50% off if purchased on a certain day..
      
Glass Joe
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Thu, 13 October 2011 19:18
So what it boils down to is that the people who plan to play a lot want a flat rate, so that the folks who play just a little end up paying for the extra games. Not sure how I feel about that--it sounds like a pyramid scheme to me.

Even an all-you-can-eat buffet limits you to the damage you can do in a single visit. You don't get free food for the rest of your life.

We've been spoiled with lots of on-line games allowing free access forever (Starcraft, Call of Duty, etc), but there _are_ ongoing expenses associated with running these games: bandwidth, additional content, etc. Not to mention the initial investment in development. And don't forget Valve's (substantial) cut for anything you purchase through them.
      
JamesJacked
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Thu, 13 October 2011 19:53
sdnative wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 17:15


What about letting players pay a monthly fee and play as much as they like?


No that's a terrible idea. Subscription is dead. Haven't you heard?
      
Henry Pelham
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Thu, 13 October 2011 22:23
James, thanks for your response.

I think gaming is a great hobby. I'm just not persuaded that there is some injustice in charging per play. Bowling alleys do this, for example. No one complains that you can't pay one fee and then bowl as much as you like, whenever you like.

My point in my post above was that if someone says (a) I play 50 hours of games per week, and (b) I cannot afford to pay 30 cents an hour to support the people who make my hobbies so enjoyable, then I would say that maybe you could be doing something else with those 50 hours of week on a computer. With 50 hours a week and a computer you could acquire and practice all kinds of knowledge and skills that could lead to you being in a financial situation where the micropayments do not seem excessive.

"Parasite" is a strong word, and I'm sorry I used it. I just don't think it's fair to expect someone to make something and then not be compensated for the work of making it and the work of maintaining and improving the place where you play it.

If you want unlimited play for one fee, there is a board game version of M44.

I don't play Starcraft or Call of Duty so I guess I am out of touch with the experience of getting tremendous bang for your buck with gaming.

[Updated on: Thu, 13 October 2011 22:26]

      
Kelly's Hero
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Thu, 13 October 2011 22:26
Nygaard wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 09:19



I, for one, like the model because it roots out those who don't take it serious enough to pay. "Free" online games are teeming with people (mostly kids it seems) who have nothing better to do than ruining other people's fun.

Anyway, that's my 0.02 DKK,
Magnus


Actually a very good point. I agree.
      
Jeronimon
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Thu, 13 October 2011 22:50
Kelly's Hero wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 22:26

Nygaard wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 09:19



I, for one, like the model because it roots out those who don't take it serious enough to pay. "Free" online games are teeming with people (mostly kids it seems) who have nothing better to do than ruining other people's fun.

Anyway, that's my 0.02 DKK,
Magnus


Actually a very good point. I agree.

Although I do think "the kids" are not actually trying to ruin everyone's fun but are trying to have a good time themselves, I do agree on the point that it keeps out the Rif-Raf. If you pay to play we (usually) would only get serious M44 player. (And by serious I mean dedicated, because I have a good laugh now and then while meeting other players. Very Happy )


Speaking on behalf of and in defense of some of the Rif-Raf we get now: they expect free stuff and someone tells them afterwards they have to pay. A point that I have gone into a little deeper in the Steam-topic/thread.
      
Quit2
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Thu, 13 October 2011 22:54
silenttimo wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 12:45


You want your GIs to last longer !?
Get a job, ...


The everlasting dilemma:
- If you get a job, you have money to buy games, updates, online currency to play games, etc ... but you don't have the time you'd like to play the games.
- If you don't have a job, you have all the time you want to play games, but you don't have the money to pay for the good games.

And now to the real content of the discussion:
The supplier of the game has the right to choose how to charge for the game. The supplier of this game chose to impose a "pay per play" system. If you don't like this system, it is your right to "not pay and not play". You just walk away.
If the majority of people agrees with you, the supplier will not have enough customers, and will either stop the service or change the payment system.
It is as simple as that.

Don't forget to have fun!
      
sam1812
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Fri, 14 October 2011 02:49
Playing games is all about having fun, mental challenge, some camaraderie, and maybe the occasional great story you can tell to certain friends. In the big picture, I hope and believe we can all agree on that.

Everybody is entitled to their own feelings about how they like to pay for their entertainment (including games). We don't have to reach a consensus about what method is best.

No method will be perfect. Is a monthly subscription fee a good idea? For very heavy players, yes, but for the person who pays his fee and then suddenly gets too busy to play for a few weeks, it's not so good.

Would you rather play Memoir for free online? It's available right now, on Vassal, including the multi-player version. The drawback is that far fewer players are there these days. Also, you have to familiarize yourself with the rules, because Vassal is like a regular boardgame; it doesn't enforce the rules for you.

(Two years ago, I didn't think I'd be paying to play a game online that I was already playing there for free. Now, I do it happily, because it's worth it to me. Then again, when I was a kid, television was free, instead of $150/month.)

Some companies deliver free games with an ad-supported business model. I suspect that if DoW started showing commercials and banner ads, there would be a lot of flaming here on the Forum from their most loyal core customers.

I have been highly impressed with DoW's quality, integrity, and dedication to their customers. Personally, I think they charge a fair price for a great product. (And by the way, there are over 200 official Memoir scenarios, so there's much more to come online.) I respect the ways they're trying to grow their business while earning a decent living. Will they come up with additional "payment plans" to keep more customers? I don't have a crystal ball.

Steam players, I'm delighted to have you here in the neighborhood, and I hope a bunch of you like it enough to stick around!

[Updated on: Fri, 14 October 2011 02:51]

      
sdnative
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Fri, 14 October 2011 03:45
JamesJacked wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 10:53

sdnative wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 17:15


What about letting players pay a monthly fee and play as much as they like?


No that's a terrible idea. Subscription is dead. Haven't you heard?


Uh is that why the last time I checked there are over 10 million Word of Warcraft players???
Looks like subscription is still doing very well..
Many players on here are hard set on the way M44 is run and they do not like change.. Cool
      
Phread
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Fri, 14 October 2011 04:07
sdnative wrote on Fri, 14 October 2011 14:45

Many players on here are hard set on the way M44 is run and they do not like change.. Cool


Good Sir I disagree.

Many players here are comfortable, or even happy, with the way M44 Online has developed and how we pay for it. I would not call that hard set.

In the 11 months I have been play M44 online I have seen Days of Wonder (DoW) listen to and respond to the feedback we - the users - have given them.

The initial M44 online had a different pay-2-play model which was more expensive per game (on average) than the current model. People complained (and complained and complained .....) and DoW changed the model.

Now I am not suggesting more complaints will get a pay-once-2-play model. Reasoned, well thought, discussion may influence DoW's thinking.

I like to play M44 online, I play between zero and forty plus matches per week. (1844 games in 47 weeks 39/week on average.)

I buy Major Packs US$ 60 for 2400 GI plus $30 discount at DoW online store. I am on my 3rd Major pack. The online store has helped me purchase other DoW stuff. Special discounts/bonuses given at the start and when the charging model was changed mean I have a bit more than 7200 GI.

$180/year = $15/month = $0.50/day. A price I don't find unreasonable as I'd spend more than that on coffee/day.

Sure I'd like to have only paid a single fixed price but not if that meant there would be no ongoing development of M44 online.

I also have the M44 board game all expansions except the bag. I don't expect buy the base game and get expansions free either.

Those asking for a fixed price would soon be complaining about how boring it was if there was only the 16 basic scenarios in the base board game.

I commend M44 online to everyone. If the pricing model doesn't suit you then enjoy your 50 free GI and move on.

Please, please, please, don't waste your precious time and energy repetively telling us all how you don't like the pricing model. We know you don't, we respect that. Respect that we do and agree to disagree, please.
      
sdnative
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Fri, 14 October 2011 04:47
Phread wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 19:07

sdnative wrote on Fri, 14 October 2011 14:45

Many players on here are hard set on the way M44 is run and they do not like change.. Cool



Sure I'd like to have only paid a single fixed price but not if that meant there would be no ongoing development of M44 online.





With all due respect that is why on games like Call of Duty there are map packs and expansions that you can purchase as the game develops...Example you could choose to purchase a 15 Scenario pack for $12 or so..
Anyways I do enjoy M44 and will continue to play and I do salute all the hard work that DOW has put into it and the forums for letting us speak our minds.

[Updated on: Fri, 14 October 2011 05:00]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Fri, 14 October 2011 05:33
sdnative wrote on Fri, 14 October 2011 06:47

Phread wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 19:07

sdnative wrote on Fri, 14 October 2011 14:45

Many players on here are hard set on the way M44 is run and they do not like change.. Cool



Sure I'd like to have only paid a single fixed price but not if that meant there would be no ongoing development of M44 online.





With all due respect that is why on games like Call of Duty there are map packs and expansions that you can purchase as the game develops...Example you could choose to purchase a 15 Scenario pack for $12 or so..
Anyways I do enjoy M44 and will continue to play and I do salute all the hard work that DOW has put into it and the forums for letting us speak our minds.


What a great way to disagree but still remain polite! Nice work, Phread and sdnative! Very Happy As older players who have been around since the start of Memoir '44 Online, it's often interesting to hear a new perspective, but frustrating to hear the same arguments re-hashed by new players when they see the pay-to-play model.

sdnative, you did a great job bringing a new idea to the table in a polite way...nice job! Welcome to the community, and I hope you stick around longer than just the 50 free Ingots! Cool
      
Wehrwolf
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Fri, 14 October 2011 08:36
Never mind, deleted my sarcastic comment that noone deserved Sad

[Updated on: Fri, 14 October 2011 08:38]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Fri, 14 October 2011 10:05
Wehrwolf wrote on Fri, 14 October 2011 10:36

Never mind, deleted my sarcastic comment that noone deserved Sad


Appreciated! Cool
      
Morgar
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Fri, 14 October 2011 10:59
I'm pretty sure you guys have sidestepped the question. Steam users don't care if the game isn't using an f2p model, we have bought plenty of games and have no issues with paying to play anything.

But why are you advertising the game as a free-to-play game when it is in fact not an f2p game?

Putting it in the f2p category, and using terms like free-to-try would make a lot of people think it is a normal f2p game. Vaguely mentioning in a paragraph how after some time you would need to pay to continue playing? Sounds like a dubious tactic to me.

No matter how much you say it's free-to-try it is simply, in fact, a demo. And there is a category for demo, with even games like EVE online in it.

Tell me something, did steam knowingly agree to falsely advertise it as an f2p game?

[Updated on: Fri, 14 October 2011 11:00]

      
silenttimo
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Fri, 14 October 2011 11:11
Morgar écrit

No matter how much you say it's free-to-try it is simply, in fact, a demo. And there is a category for demo, with even games like EVE online in it.


It is not a demo.

It's the complete game, as we, M44-OL players, practice it.

However, it's indeed a "limited" free-try of a real & complete game.

Not happy of the game ?
Of the gaming conditions ?
Do not reconnect.

The truth is, also, that people who do pay for practicing a game do not (generally speaking) act like players who do not.

Disconnect during a game you're losing makes you lose your gold ingots, as an obvious example.
But it is also a way to let you know that acting like this is very rude toward the other player.

      
Morgar
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Fri, 14 October 2011 11:26
"Free-to-try" is still not in any shape or form a free to play game. False advertising to people who are specifically looking to play an actual f2p game.

And, um,

Quote:

It is not a demo.

It's the complete game, as we, M44-OL players, practice it.

However, it's indeed a "limited" free-try of a real & complete game.

You know what that sounds like?
Quote:

Generally, playable demos are stripped down versions of the full game, restricting gameplay to some levels, only allowing access to some features, or limiting the amount of time playable in the game.

A demo.
      
silenttimo
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Fri, 14 October 2011 11:39
Morgar écrit

A demo.



OK Mr Right, I'll whip my back, kneel down, make amend, and add : do not reconnect if you're not happy, you'll spoil the games of hundreds of players who are.

I like the game and I do not want to pay $xx/month.
Here, I buy a big amount of "credits" (like it used to be for "arcade games") and use them just like I want.

I do not want to play for 2 months : OK, I do not lose money !

That's the way it is here, I guess.
      
Morgar
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October 2011
Re:How is this "Free to play"? Fri, 14 October 2011 11:48
What is wrong with you people?

How does "change the category of the game so that it does not falsely advertise and mislead people" get read as "change your pay-model" ?

I've been seeing this throughout this thread.

All people want is for the devs to change the category. At least remove it from f2p and leave it in simulation/strategy/casual and make it clearer that you have to pay as you play.

You will probably even gain customers/players instead of pissing off f2p players.
      
Red Is Dead
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October 2011
Re:How is this "Free to play"? Fri, 14 October 2011 15:13
eric wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 02:50

You are correct. It is not strictly Free to Play, but rather Free to download and play until you run out of your initial 50 Gold Ingots.

Unfortunately there is no Game category that precisely covers this type of offer on Steam. That is why we devoted a whole paragraph to describe this on the About the Game section of the Game's description on Steam.

But try it out and see for yourself. 50 Gold Ingots should be plenty enough to help you decide whether this is something you might like and want to spend some money on (or not!).

best,
eric


I'm completely dumbfounded. So you admit that it's not free to play, and knew it when chosing which categories to place your game in, you still put it in there.

Yeah, I'm sorry to break it to you, but that's false advertising.

I understand perfectly that my request to move it off the free to play list will be completely ignored as the potential cash you'll get from that lie is far greater than doing things right and you obviously don't have anything that remotely looks like any form of ethics.

See, I have absolutely no problem with subscription based games (and yes, this is a subscritpion. Except instead of suscribing for a month you do so for a number of games.) but advertising your game as free to play is a lie, and it's because of people like you that F2P games gets a bad reputation.
      
silenttimo
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Fri, 14 October 2011 15:34
I have never seen something that is TOTALLY free.

I guess a F2P game is free because paid by ads you see on websites.
EDIT : those adds are directed ESPECIALLY for the public usually going on a specific site ; those adds have a cost, so anyway, you pay to play, but an indirect cost : maybe +x USD each time you get Nike shoes, +x USD for buying the new "grinning monkeys" disc, +x USD for buying the new apple item...).

Here, you got a game that is on a constant evolution.
I guess lots of more options and scenarios will be added, and this has to be tested, this needs programming etc...

Programming & testing has a cost (money & time), so if the community of players wants new options added, they agree to pay a small amount of money (after all, I have everything released for the M44 boardgame, and still, I pay to be able to play more !) for the development of the online game.
You also need lots of computer to support the game : this has also a cost.

Well, I may seem old-fashioned, but when I see that anyone can get almost anything for free with the web, I can assure you that music, movies, books & games will be impoverished with gratuitousness.

You want a nice gaming community, a game that will be constantly on the move, a game that is always different (depending on your opponent, your cards, your strategy...) ?

Then yes, this has a price !

Leisure has a cost, whether you like it or not (at the notable exception of running barefeet in a field or a park, or swimming in a lake or a river).

[Updated on: Fri, 14 October 2011 15:36]

      
Elendil90
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Re:How is this "Free to play"? Fri, 14 October 2011 16:14
As an M44 and Steam player, all I can say is I was surprised to find M44 on Steam, even more surprised to find it listed as free, then a bit annoyed to find out that it isn't free after all. I think DoW just made a mistake, or maybe miscommunicated with Valve (the company that operates Steam).

I would agree with the people who say the free program should be labelled as a demo, but I don't agree that this is some kind of sneaky trick. DoW are venturing into a new area, and mistakes like this happen.

Just relax and enjoy. Cool
      
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