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stevens
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CB#2 - Singapore Scenario Rules Question Fri, 03 February 2012 12:53
In this scenario, the Axis forces are separated from the Island of Singapore by a causeway (represented here by a broken bridge). The rules give a method for the repair of the bridge, however, there is nothing specific about limiting the access to the mainland ONLY through the causeway.

Should units on the mainland be able to cross the sound (the channel of water between the island and the mainland) using the ocean hexes to move across OR is the causeway the ONLY way?
      
tank commander
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Re:CB#2 - Singapore Scenario Rules Question Fri, 03 February 2012 14:01
stevens wrote on Fri, 03 February 2012 06:53

In this scenario, the Axis forces are separated from the Island of Singapore by a causeway (represented here by a broken bridge). The rules give a method for the repair of the bridge, however, there is nothing specific about limiting the access to the mainland ONLY through the causeway.

Should units on the mainland be able to cross the sound (the channel of water between the island and the mainland) using the ocean hexes to move across OR is the causeway the ONLY way?


Hi Paul.

Units can indeed move into an ocean hex and nothing to limit such movement was mentioned in the special rules.

I would say that the causeway (when repaired) is just a quicker method for those units to move to the mainland - but not the only way. That is the way I played it in this one.

      
stevens
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Re:CB#2 - Singapore Scenario Rules Question Fri, 03 February 2012 16:06
tank commander wrote on Fri, 03 February 2012 08:01

stevens wrote on Fri, 03 February 2012 06:53

In this scenario, the Axis forces are separated from the Island of Singapore by a causeway (represented here by a broken bridge). The rules give a method for the repair of the bridge, however, there is nothing specific about limiting the access to the mainland ONLY through the causeway.

Should units on the mainland be able to cross the sound (the channel of water between the island and the mainland) using the ocean hexes to move across OR is the causeway the ONLY way?


Hi Paul.

Units can indeed move into an ocean hex and nothing to limit such movement was mentioned in the special rules.

I would say that the causeway (when repaired) is just a quicker method for those units to move to the mainland - but not the only way. That is the way I played it in this one.




Unfortunately John I agree with you, however, Stig has been chatting with Don Clarke who created the scenario and says it should be otherwise. I am just wondering if it was an oversight of DOW to mention the specific limiting rule or if maybe DOW changed Don's scenario a bit. Regardless, Stig and I will play it with limitations, but I would like some official response from the DOW folks, hence the post.
      
tinsoldier
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Re:CB#2 - Singapore Scenario Rules Question Fri, 03 February 2012 16:44
We played the sea hexes as impassable.
If the engineer unit is destroyed before the bridge is repaired, the other units are stuck on the island.
That is what happened in our game, but the Japs won anyway.

In all scenarios, sea hexes are impassable to ground units, unless of course the unit starts in the sea, but then it is supposed to be on boats. As we know, you cannot retreat on sea hexes.

My 2 cents (in euros).
      
stevens
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Re:CB#2 - Singapore Scenario Rules Question Fri, 03 February 2012 17:05
tinsoldier wrote on Fri, 03 February 2012 10:44

We played the sea hexes as impassable.
If the engineer unit is destroyed before the bridge is repaired, the other units are stuck on the island.
That is what happened in our game, but the Japs won anyway.

In all scenarios, sea hexes are impassable to ground units, unless of course the unit starts in the sea, but then it is supposed to be on boats. As we know, you cannot retreat on sea hexes.

My 2 cents (in euros).


http://static.memoir44.com/lang/english/images/mm_compendium_terrain_7.jpg

Movement in ocean hexes is limited, but not impassable.

Impassable terrain is usually designated in the scenario in the special rules or a specific characteristic of the terrain (i.e. Escarpments). There is no designation in the special rules of this scenario. Thanks for your Euros worth (I think it is actually worth more than our cents). Laughing

 http://static.memoir44.com/lang/english/images/mm_compendium_terrain_63.jpg
      
tank commander
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Re:CB#2 - Singapore Scenario Rules Question Fri, 03 February 2012 19:08
Hi Paul.

Do the ocean movement limitations you are playing with include the Japanese left and right flank arty too?
      
tank commander
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Re:CB#2 - Singapore Scenario Rules Question Fri, 03 February 2012 19:14
stevens wrote on Fri, 03 February 2012 11:05

tinsoldier wrote on Fri, 03 February 2012 10:44

We played the sea hexes as impassable.
If the engineer unit is destroyed before the bridge is repaired, the other units are stuck on the island.
That is what happened in our game, but the Japs won anyway.

In all scenarios, sea hexes are impassable to ground units, unless of course the unit starts in the sea, but then it is supposed to be on boats. As we know, you cannot retreat on sea hexes.

My 2 cents (in euros).


http://static.memoir44.com/lang/english/images/mm_compendium_terrain_7.jpg

Movement in ocean hexes is limited, but not impassable.

Impassable terrain is usually designated in the scenario in the special rules or a specific characteristic of the terrain (i.e. Escarpments). There is no designation in the special rules of this scenario. Thanks for your Euros worth (I think it is actually worth more than our cents). Laughing

 http://static.memoir44.com/lang/english/images/mm_compendium_terrain_63.jpg


Right -- as per the FAQ:


Q. Can a unit move (not retreat) from a Beach hex back onto an Ocean hex?

A. Yes. Although it seems strange, units can move from a Beach hex onto an Ocean hex or from one Ocean hex to another,
though movement is still restricted to 1 hex in the Ocean.

But also note, a move does not have to be from / to a beach - it can be any passable terrain (except where mentioned in the special notes) that is adjacent to an ocean hex.
      
tinsoldier
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Re:CB#2 - Singapore Scenario Rules Question Thu, 09 February 2012 10:12
tank commander écrit le Fri, 03 February 2012 19:14

Right -- as per the FAQ:


Q. Can a unit move (not retreat) from a Beach hex back onto an Ocean hex?

A. Yes. Although it seems strange, units can move from a Beach hex onto an Ocean hex or from one Ocean hex to another,
though movement is still restricted to 1 hex in the Ocean.

But also note, a move does not have to be from / to a beach - it can be any passable terrain (except where mentioned in the special notes) that is adjacent to an ocean hex.



My mistake. We should have allowed the armour to dive into the sea.
      
JJs Juggernaut
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Re:CB#2 - Singapore Scenario Rules Question Thu, 09 February 2012 17:17
tinsoldier wrote on Thu, 09 February 2012 04:12

tank commander écrit le Fri, 03 February 2012 19:14

Right -- as per the FAQ:


Q. Can a unit move (not retreat) from a Beach hex back onto an Ocean hex?

A. Yes. Although it seems strange, units can move from a Beach hex onto an Ocean hex or from one Ocean hex to another,
though movement is still restricted to 1 hex in the Ocean.

But also note, a move does not have to be from / to a beach - it can be any passable terrain (except where mentioned in the special notes) that is adjacent to an ocean hex.



My mistake. We should have allowed the armour to dive into the sea.


Well, I didn't own the CB #2 but from what I'm hearing you might not be wrong Tinsoldier. You may have played it right, but DoW just didn't clearify that the sea hexes are imapassable. Special rules in scenarios can overule the regular ocean rules, which allow units to mve through the ocean one hex at a time. It would be nice to get some offical rueling on this from DoW, but I haven't seen them on the forums much...hopefully they're buisy working on the next update for the online game Very Happy Laughing Very Happy
      
stevens
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Re:CB#2 - Singapore Scenario Rules Question Thu, 09 February 2012 18:18
Yes, I believe we still have no OFFICIAL RULING as of yet. Only our opinions.
Shocked
      
JJs Juggernaut
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Re:CB#2 - Singapore Scenario Rules Question Thu, 09 February 2012 18:25
stevens wrote on Thu, 09 February 2012 12:18

Yes, I believe we still have no OFFICIAL RULING as of yet. Only our opinions.
Shocked


Well sir, your opinion is so educated that it's almost an official ruling. Laughing Shocked Laughing
Do I get bonus points for that? Very Happy Maybe a good word with the men upstairs. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

[Updated on: Thu, 09 February 2012 18:25]

      
ad79
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Re:CB#2 - Singapore Scenario Rules Question Thu, 09 February 2012 19:54
Here is a copy of my conversation on facebook with Yangtze(scenario designer)

Me
Hi
Another rules question.
In the Singapore scenario: Can the tanks on the causeway move into the ocean to get inland or do they have to use the bridge when/if it is repaired?


Yangtze
Bridge only I'm afraid Smile

I haven't asked about the artillery batteries, but I would guess the same rules apply for them. The ocean hexes represent the actual terrain feature around Singapore.
The bridge was blown to hinder Japanese advances.

I also aksed Yangtze to come to this forum and clarify, but he's likely been too busy so far.

Stig Morten (British defender in peril)
      
stevens
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Re:CB#2 - Singapore Scenario Rules Question Thu, 09 February 2012 22:06
Stig and I are currently involved in this battle, and even though he was kind to allow me the opportunity to cross the waters via ocean hexes, I have not done it. Nothing kindhearted on my part. I just haven't had the cards to make a push. The bridge was repaired in the meantime. So in our case, it is not a debatable issue.

I am glad he took the time to contact YANGTZE. I appreciate his desire to play as intended as it is mine as well. DOW will eventually give us an answer (but by that time Singapore may have fallen). Laughing Laughing

See you on Vassal Stig!

[Updated on: Thu, 09 February 2012 22:07]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:CB#2 - Singapore Scenario Rules Question Fri, 10 February 2012 01:50
stevens wrote on Fri, 10 February 2012 01:06

DOW will eventually give us an answer (but by that time Singapore may have fallen). Laughing Laughing

See you on Vassal Stig!



In this case, an answer from Yangtze is Official since he created the scenario...so I'm not sure why you need to wait for an answer from DoW. Razz
      
stevens
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Re:CB#2 - Singapore Scenario Rules Question Fri, 10 February 2012 14:20
I think Jesse is correct. Since Stig has taken the time to ask the author of the scenario we should consider this case closed. All units on the mainland at game start should use the bridge ONLY or not cross the waterway.

I would thinking that keeping the artillery on land is also in the spirit of that thought.

However, I would anticipate that Reserve Units may still enter from the last hex regardless of terrain type (as long as it is passable). Otherwise there would have to be a limitation of NO reserves, as the only open hexes at game start are OCEAN hexes.
      
tank commander
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Re:CB#2 - Singapore Scenario Rules Question Fri, 10 February 2012 17:22
stevens wrote on Fri, 10 February 2012 08:20

However, I would anticipate that Reserve Units may still enter from the last hex regardless of terrain type (as long as it is passable). Otherwise there would have to be a limitation of NO reserves, as the only open hexes at game start are OCEAN hexes.


A good point. I would say that the Japanese player should be able to deploy 2 Reserve units (depending on his Reserve rolls) at game start on those 2 empty baseline ocean hexes.

Of course, he would also have the option of placing any Reserve Units in his Reserve Area in the hopes that the bridge would be repaired. That way, units that start on the island could move off the baseline by crossing the bridge and clear the way for deployment of Reserve Area units onto the board.
      
yangtze
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Re:CB#2 - Singapore Scenario Rules Question Sat, 11 February 2012 22:19
Apologies for my lateness to this thread!

The intention is that neither tanks not artillery may enter the Johore Strait. So the only way the tanks can get ashore on Singapore Island is via a repaired Causeway.

The British may find the Japanese in their rear areas sooner than expected if they spend too much effort trying to stop the engineers. As someone has already pointed out, the Japanese can win without the tanks...

My apologies for the lack of clarity. Nothing to do with the guys at DoW!

Don Smile

[Updated on: Wed, 15 February 2012 13:30]

      
stevens
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Re:CB#2 - Singapore Scenario Rules Question Sat, 11 February 2012 22:34
kudos for coming online and giving us the story Don.
Smile
      
yangtze
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Re:CB#2 - Singapore Scenario Rules Question Sat, 11 February 2012 23:05
It's a pleasure!

The Japanese did actually tow some tanks across on rafts, but we can assume those are integral to the infantry units. The Japanese objective in this sector was to shield the Causeway repairs. They needed to get the Causeway functional in order to facilitate supplies and reinforcements, hence the tanks waiting impatiently on the mainland Smile

Don
      
ad79
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Re:CB#2 - Singapore Scenario Rules Question Wed, 15 February 2012 07:57
Thanks for clearing up the issue, Don.

Great campaign and I have enjoyed it very much the two times I've played it.
If only there were a rule to allow the British to gain more medals I would have a chance against stevens.

He has shown me how to properly use airplanes in this campaign.

Well played, stevens.
      
    
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