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Almilcar
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BEL + Combat Card "Heat of Battle" Sat, 21 April 2012 15:51
Hello,

I'd like to know whether this sequence breaks any stated rule or not. I have taken some screenshots to help you guys understand the whole process.

1.- Starting Point: I played "BEL"

http://i39.tinypic.com/21bm8n5.png

2.- Ordered unit to carry out the BEL, did the 3 hex movement and closed the range to perform a Close Assault against the INF on the town hex of Wardin

http://i43.tinypic.com/29dbg1w.png

(continue in the next reply, max images allowed 2)
      
Almilcar
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Re:BEL + Combat Card "Heat of Battle" Sat, 21 April 2012 15:52
3.- Succeeded, I took ground and afterwards, I played the HoB Combat card, I claimed my second Close Assault, this time against the INF unit located on the Road Block.

http://i43.tinypic.com/10oif14.png

4.- I won the battle and I wanted to do the second "3 hex movement"

According to my opponent, I can't make the 3 hex movement to complete the BEL card because I broke the sequence doing a second Close Assault using the HoB Combat Card.

What are your thoughts?

I'd say yes, cos according to the Combat Cards "they are usually played in conjunction with unit(s) ordered with a Command Card, to enhance these units' actions".


Thanks

[Updated on: Sat, 21 April 2012 15:57]

      
deemao
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Re:BEL + Combat Card "Heat of Battle" Sat, 21 April 2012 16:27
I'm not used to use this cards, but i'll definitely say that you can make the second 3 hexes move. Can't see anything that prevent you to do that. Rules are clear for me in this case.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:BEL + Combat Card "Heat of Battle" Sat, 21 April 2012 17:20
You can definitely take your second set of movement! There is nothing in any of the rules that say that 'breaking up your move' in that way will prevent you from finishing your move.

It was a good move and was perfectly legal. Cool
      
Flemish_Havy
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Re:BEL + Combat Card "Heat of Battle" Sat, 21 April 2012 18:24
rasmussen81 wrote on Sat, 21 April 2012 17:20

You can definitely take your second set of movement! There is nothing in any of the rules that say that 'breaking up your move' in that way will prevent you from finishing your move.

It was a good move and was perfectly legal. Cool


Even if you do a second 'battle', as in this case, with that HoB card !? Shocked

If it is as you say sir, you could play several 'combat (urban) cards' inbetween the 'fases' and in the end do the 3 hex move , to finish the BEL! ? Rolling Eyes

It personly thought you play the BEL card in full and then after that, you can play your extra ' combat ' card ! Rolling Eyes

But reading the rules, you play the combat card(s) "in conjunction with the command card, so can you use all possiblities from both cards together and in random order ? ! Rolling Eyes

WE SHURELY ARE IN NEED OFF FAQ FOR WINTER AND URBAN COMBAT CARDS ASAP Rolling Eyes Confused Rolling Eyes

/-> another exemple:
http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?goto=245169#msg_245169

[Updated on: Sat, 21 April 2012 18:36]

      
stevens
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Re:BEL + Combat Card "Heat of Battle" Sat, 21 April 2012 20:50
rasmussen81 wrote on Sat, 21 April 2012 11:20

You can definitely take your second set of movement! There is nothing in any of the rules that say that 'breaking up your move' in that way will prevent you from finishing your move.

It was a good move and was perfectly legal. Cool


Looks good to me too.
      
sam1812
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Re:BEL + Combat Card "Heat of Battle" Sun, 22 April 2012 04:41
Havy, think of some other Combat cards like Street Fight or Winter Forest and you'll realize that Combat cards definitely can be played in the middle of a BEL.
      
tank commander
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Re:BEL + Combat Card "Heat of Battle" Sun, 22 April 2012 14:41
stevens wrote on Sat, 21 April 2012 14:50

rasmussen81 wrote on Sat, 21 April 2012 11:20

You can definitely take your second set of movement! There is nothing in any of the rules that say that 'breaking up your move' in that way will prevent you from finishing your move.

It was a good move and was perfectly legal. Cool


Looks good to me too.




I am with them guys - lol.


"...I broke the sequence doing a second Close Assault using the HoB Combat Card"

I see no merit in the above statment regarding BEL - you should have been allowed to make that second 3 hex move.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:BEL + Combat Card "Heat of Battle" Sun, 22 April 2012 15:07
tank commander wrote on Sun, 22 April 2012 16:41

stevens wrote on Sat, 21 April 2012 14:50

rasmussen81 wrote on Sat, 21 April 2012 11:20

You can definitely take your second set of movement! There is nothing in any of the rules that say that 'breaking up your move' in that way will prevent you from finishing your move.

It was a good move and was perfectly legal. Cool


Looks good to me too.




I am with them guys - lol.


"...I broke the sequence doing a second Close Assault using the HoB Combat Card"

I see no merit in the above statment regarding BEL - you should have been allowed to make that second 3 hex move.



I think the key is that Combat Cards are played in conjunction with other cards to enhance their effect...which means that they can be slipped in or played at any time when it would be allowed.

So in this example, since the conditions of the HoB Combat Card were met, it could be played without any problem.
      
Flemish_Havy
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Re:BEL + Combat Card "Heat of Battle" Sun, 22 April 2012 18:36
It s always great to get fast and to the point responses to questions ! THX GUYS ! Cool

I now see i have to be more openminded toward combat cards ... Embarassed but nevertheless there must be limits agreed ... and some extra rules toward that created ... Rolling Eyes
      
rasmussen81
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Re:BEL + Combat Card "Heat of Battle" Sun, 22 April 2012 18:39
Flemish_Havy wrote on Sun, 22 April 2012 20:36

It s always great to get fast and to the point responses to questions ! THX GUYS ! Cool

I now see i have to be more openminded toward combat cards ... Embarassed but nevertheless there must be limits agreed ... and some extra rules toward that created ... Rolling Eyes


What kind of limits are you thinking of? Rolling Eyes
      
Flemish_Havy
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Re:BEL + Combat Card "Heat of Battle" Sun, 22 April 2012 19:27
rasmussen81 wrote on Sun, 22 April 2012 18:39

Flemish_Havy wrote on Sun, 22 April 2012 20:36

It s always great to get fast and to the point responses to questions ! THX GUYS ! Cool

I now see i have to be more openminded toward combat cards ... Embarassed but nevertheless there must be limits agreed ... and some extra rules toward that created ... Rolling Eyes


What kind of limits are you thinking of? Rolling Eyes


Rolling Eyes I was thinking off the other combination i put online, being CLOSE ASSAULT and BEL. Other tread linked : http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?goto=245169#msg_245169
Can you play 'frozen ground' together with it ?

Rolling Eyes What about FIREFIGHT, where you can not move units normaly, can you play ' infiltrators ', ' frozen ground ' together with it ?

In my humble oppinion, when you play a command card where your troops are 'initialy not moving', you shouldnt be able to move even when combined with a combat card. (Maybe except for the infiltrators, but then only part 2 off the card, regarding the retreating move off 3 hex.

Rolling Eyes Another question arises, when you combine ' Close assault ' and 'infiltrators', do the extra dice ad up or not ?





      
rasmussen81
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Re:BEL + Combat Card "Heat of Battle" Sun, 22 April 2012 20:57
Flemish_Havy wrote on Sun, 22 April 2012 21:27

Rolling Eyes I was thinking off the other combination i put online, being CLOSE ASSAULT and BEL. Other tread linked : http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?goto=245169#msg_245169
Can you play 'frozen ground' together with it ?


I see what you mean about being unsure how these interact with each other. To answer your question about if "Frozen Ground" can be played with it, the answer would be yes if you can indeed move. Combat Cards can be played in any combination and as many as you have.

Quote:

Rolling Eyes What about FIREFIGHT, where you can not move units normaly, can you play ' infiltrators ', ' frozen ground ' together with it ?


That's unclear to me and looks like it will require some clarification. Very Happy

Quote:

In my humble oppinion, when you play a command card where your troops are 'initialy not moving', you shouldnt be able to move even when combined with a combat card. (Maybe except for the infiltrators, but then only part 2 off the card, regarding the retreating move off 3 hex.

Rolling Eyes Another question arises, when you combine ' Close assault ' and 'infiltrators', do the extra dice ad up or not ?


Dice do stack, but in this case they would not stack because your unit would first do a Close Assault, then move and attack but after the initial attack your unit doesn't get the Close Assault bonus.

But if you did play cards where the benefit gave you +1 for dice for each (Their Finest Hour combined with Infiltrators), you would get +2 for your attack. Cool
      
Flemish_Havy
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Re:BEL + Combat Card "Heat of Battle" Sun, 22 April 2012 22:03
Thx again Rasmussen for clearing out most off our questions and mindbreakers ! Cool

To show my appreciation, may i devote my time into a vassal Winter Wars match against you sir, in the near future !? Rolling Eyes
      
rasmussen81
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Re:BEL + Combat Card "Heat of Battle" Sun, 22 April 2012 22:30
Flemish_Havy wrote on Mon, 23 April 2012 00:03

Thx again Rasmussen for clearing out most off our questions and mindbreakers ! Cool

To show my appreciation, may i devote my time into a vassal Winter Wars match against you sir, in the near future !? Rolling Eyes


Thanks for the offer and you are most welcome for the answers that I can provide. I don't play on Vassal, so I'm afraid I won't be able to join you for a game of Winter Wars. Have fun! Cool
      
Morrell
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Re:BEL + Combat Card "Heat of Battle" Mon, 23 April 2012 04:59
I agree with everyone on this that addition movement would be legal and should have been allowed.

I do have one question: Once the Heat of Battle card is played for the second attack would the unit still get the +1 dice modifier for this attack since the unit already used the modifier on the original BEL attack?
      
Morrell
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Re:BEL + Combat Card "Heat of Battle" Mon, 23 April 2012 05:26
rasmussen81 wrote on Sun, 22 April 2012 13:57

Flemish_Havy wrote on Sun, 22 April 2012 21:27

Rolling Eyes I was thinking off the other combination i put online, being CLOSE ASSAULT and BEL. Other tread linked : http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?goto=245169#msg_245169
Can you play 'frozen ground' together with it ?


I see what you mean about being unsure how these interact with each other. To answer your question about if "Frozen Ground" can be played with it, the answer would be yes if you can indeed move. Combat Cards can be played in any combination and as many as you have.


I disagee about what Mr. Rasmussen81 states here and the reason why is the original cards state you can not move for the units to be able to conduct a round of combat. Therefore the CLOSE ASSAULT and FIREFIGHT as stated would mean that if you moved with the use of a combat card, then you would not be able to conduct combat with those units because you have gone against what is stated on the orginal card, which is the card that allows you to attack. I do think if you use the Infiltrators card you would not be able to move the first 3 hexes, that is if you wish to attack with this unit, but you would get the +1 dice advantage and would then be able to move 3 hexes after combat.

Then again this is my humble opinion on this matter.

[Updated on: Mon, 23 April 2012 05:28]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:BEL + Combat Card "Heat of Battle" Mon, 23 April 2012 05:38
Morrell wrote on Mon, 23 April 2012 07:26

rasmussen81 wrote on Sun, 22 April 2012 13:57

Flemish_Havy wrote on Sun, 22 April 2012 21:27

Rolling Eyes I was thinking off the other combination i put online, being CLOSE ASSAULT and BEL. Other tread linked : http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?goto=245169#msg_245169
Can you play 'frozen ground' together with it ?


I see what you mean about being unsure how these interact with each other. To answer your question about if "Frozen Ground" can be played with it, the answer would be yes if you can indeed move. Combat Cards can be played in any combination and as many as you have.


I disagee about what Mr. Rasmussen81 states here and the reason why is the original cards state you can not move for the units to be able to conduct a round of combat. Therefore the CLOSE ASSAULT and FIREFIGHT as stated would mean that if you moved with the use of a combat card, then you would not be able to conduct combat with those units because you have gone against what is stated on the orginal card, which is the card that allows you to attack. I do think if you use the Infiltrators card you would not be able to move the first 3 hexes, that is if you wish to attack with this unit, but you would get the +1 dice advantage and would then be able to move 3 hexes after combat.

Then again this is my humble opinion on this matter.


Actually, I was saying that if we figure out you can combine the effect of Close Assault and Infiltrators, you would then also be able to add in the effect of Frozen Ground. My point was that Combat Cards can be stacked. Smile

At this point I don't know what the rule is for combining those cards. Razz
      
Morrell
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Re:BEL + Combat Card "Heat of Battle" Tue, 24 April 2012 03:07
I then stand corrected and apologize Embarassed

However I still stand behind my assessment of using certain combat cards with the CLOSE COMBAT and FIREPOWER cards Twisted Evil
      
ad79
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Re:BEL + Combat Card "Heat of Battle" Tue, 24 April 2012 08:26
Close assault and Firefight has no movement phase before combat, so my opinion is that you can't play a combat card that modifies movement, (frozen ground), but you can play combat card that modifies the combat phase or puts in an additional movement phase after the combat phase. (Reposition)

Maybe we need a combat card sticky thread?
      
Almilcar
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Re:BEL + Combat Card "Heat of Battle" Tue, 24 April 2012 09:28
ad79 wrote on Tue, 24 April 2012 08:26

Maybe we need a combat card sticky thread?

+1

Also, I'm surprised about the lack of information about the proper use of these cards.
      
50th
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Re:BEL + Combat Card "Heat of Battle" Wed, 25 April 2012 18:03
I would say that the clarification would be in the wording of the combat cards. You said, "modifies movement", but if there is no movement available, you cannot modify it! I think command cards set the primary ruling. If you cannot move, you cannot move, period!

      
Flemish_Havy
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Re:BEL + Combat Card "Heat of Battle" Wed, 25 April 2012 22:55
50th wrote on Wed, 25 April 2012 18:03

I would say that the clarification would be in the wording of the combat cards. You said, "modifies movement", but if there is no movement available, you cannot modify it! I think command cards set the primary ruling. If you cannot move, you cannot move, period!




my exact idea in the first place Very Happy
      
Sgt Storm
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Re:BEL + Combat Card "Heat of Battle" Thu, 26 April 2012 23:10
50th wrote on Wed, 25 April 2012 12:03

I would say that the clarification would be in the wording of the combat cards. You said, "modifies movement", but if there is no movement available, you cannot modify it! I think command cards set the primary ruling. If you cannot move, you cannot move, period!




I agree. Movement before Firefight and Close Assault battle phase makes little sense, since these cards prohibit it (at least until someone from DOW says otherwise). You could play the Combat card, but wouldn't be able to use its movement effects.

Nor do I think you could use the Firefight or Close Assault to "order" units and then move some of the "ordered" units using Combat cards and have the others (that didn't move) perform combat. That would not be in keeping with the spirit of the Command card rules.

[Updated on: Thu, 26 April 2012 23:10]

      
    
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