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Almilcar
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Overlord - Constructing a Pontoon and crossing it in the same turn Tue, 08 May 2012 23:17
Hello gents,

the following situation showed up while testing/practising "The Cadets of Saumur" OL Scenario.

My opponent wanted to build a Pontoon (Terrain 33) according to Special Rules using an Attack Card; on the other hand, he wanted to hand out a second Section Command Card to the same FG. As long as I'm aware, nothing prevents him from building a pontoon and using troops of the other section - but same FLANK aka same FG - to cross it in the same turn.

Is it the construction of the pontoon considered a Special Action preventing the use of other cards by the same FG in that turn?

Hopefully the question is worded correctly.

Thanks in advance.

[Updated on: Tue, 08 May 2012 23:29]

      
Flemish_Havy
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Re:Overlord - Constructing a Pontoon and crossing it in the same turn Tue, 08 May 2012 23:51
The question in short would be:

" can a FG build a pontoon (perform a special action) and play a second card to move troops from his other section ? " (he can play 2 section cards normaly)

i would say yes, if it is in another section card. Smile

If he can play a second card, " Can a FG build a second pontoon in the same turn (with his second card that is ) ? "

i would say yes, playing his second section card. Smile ( a second special action)

In a normal game, since you can only play one card at a time, it would take you the turn to build the pontoon, so the second question is : " can you actualy use that pontoon the same turn as it is build to cross troops over it or do you have to sit out the turn (time) to build the pontoon as in real life ? "

/-> Taking the last remark in mind, having to give it time to build the pontoon looks reasonable to me ! So i would NOT allow the pontoon to be crossed the same turn Smile


ALL IS OPEN FOR DISCUSSIONS !
-----------------------------
In case you CAN use the pontoon on the same turn it is build, this would give big tactical changes and possibilities to Blitzkrieg ! Rolling Eyes

p.s.aint MM44 challenging us over and over again Very Happy

[Updated on: Tue, 08 May 2012 23:58]

      
Sgt Storm
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Re:Overlord - Constructing a Pontoon and crossing it in the same turn Wed, 09 May 2012 00:40
I don't see why you can't build the bridge with one card then use another card to order troops across it (as long as you obey card rules in OL).

This was discussed in the FAQ thread:

http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?th=17900&start=280

[Updated on: Wed, 09 May 2012 00:40]

      
sam1812
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Re:Overlord - Constructing a Pontoon and crossing it in the same turn Wed, 09 May 2012 01:11
When the CinC gives two section cards to one FG, the FG must play one in each of his two sections. (He can't play them both in the same section.)

If the FG builds a bridge at or near the boundary between his two sections, he can use his other section card to order units in the other section to use the bridge.

The same thing can be done by two neighboring FGs.
      
Flemish_Havy
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Re:Overlord - Constructing a Pontoon and crossing it in the same turn Wed, 09 May 2012 05:04
so it is an ALL GO ! ! ! as i originaly planned it in the game, but then we started questioning it ...

and minds get twisted around resulting in my post above Shocked
      
Almilcar
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Re:Overlord - Constructing a Pontoon and crossing it in the same turn Wed, 09 May 2012 07:50
Ok, so here is the trick.

Now about the timing when building a pontoon.

Instead of ordering units, you can build a pontoon, not ordering any units. But in what phase of the turn?

Should the pontoon be built in the Battle Phase of the turn (instead of battling), thus all your units should have moved BEFORE you CAN build the pontoon?

Depending on the timing, and strictly following the sequence of a turn, I don't know if you can BUILD and CROSS a PONTOON in the same TURN, regardless the cards your FG has got in his hands.

[Updated on: Wed, 09 May 2012 07:55]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:Overlord - Constructing a Pontoon and crossing it in the same turn Wed, 09 May 2012 08:57
Almilcar wrote on Wed, 09 May 2012 09:50

Ok, so here is the trick.

Now about the timing when building a pontoon.

Instead of ordering units, you can build a pontoon, not ordering any units. But in what phase of the turn?

Should the pontoon be built in the Battle Phase of the turn (instead of battling), thus all your units should have moved BEFORE you CAN build the pontoon?

Depending on the timing, and strictly following the sequence of a turn, I don't know if you can BUILD and CROSS a PONTOON in the same TURN, regardless the cards your FG has got in his hands.



Great point! Cool
      
ad79
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Re:Overlord - Constructing a Pontoon and crossing it in the same turn Wed, 09 May 2012 09:58
Regarding timing on when a pontoon bridge is built.

I play my card, and INSTEAD of ordering units I build the bridge, so to me it looks like the bridge is built during the ordering phase of the turn.

In OL I say that if my left FG gets 2 cards, he can order units in one section and build a Pontoon bridge in the other section(or on the boundary hex.

Thus when the movement phase comes, there is a bridge for the untis to cross.

That is my opinion.
      
Almilcar
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Re:Overlord - Constructing a Pontoon and crossing it in the same turn Wed, 09 May 2012 12:53
Hello,

Even though I do understand your thoughts, I can't agree. Building a bridge/pontoon should take the whole turn for that sector/section. But that is my opinion, thus pointless. I'd rather like to hear an official word about the timing of building bridges/pontoons.

IMHO and for this case, I do understand "ordering" as the whole process of SELECTING UNITS, MOVING and BATTLING, not simply the "ordering" phase of the turn itself.

To my mind, that is the "Special Action" described in Terrain #33. However, to really know the spirit of the rule, the designer or somebody from DoW CS should say something.

Regards
      
stevens
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Re:Overlord - Constructing a Pontoon and crossing it in the same turn Wed, 09 May 2012 13:37
I really think you are way overthinking this issue and making it much more complicated than it is.

http://static.memoir44.com/lang/english/images/mm_compendium_terrain_33.jpg

The card simply states that in lieu of ORDERING any units, you place a bridge. So it takes place in the ordering phase.

ORDER: build a bridge, choose units

I think Stig's answer is correct.
      
Almilcar
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Re:Overlord - Constructing a Pontoon and crossing it in the same turn Wed, 09 May 2012 13:52
If you guys use to play this card like that, AMEN!

Have nothing else to say. I'll try not to overthink more rules, because it's pointless.

As a last word though, it doesn't make any sense to me and it gives a huge advantage to the player using this feature in a single turn. For future summary cards, it should be included in the wording the timing of the building process to avoid any ambiguity

Again, we will play it like that.

Thanks to all for the answers and thoughts.

Regards

[Updated on: Wed, 09 May 2012 13:55]

      
Flemish_Havy
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Re:Overlord - Constructing a Pontoon and crossing it in the same turn Wed, 09 May 2012 15:22
So reading allt he above correctly, the answers would be.

Yes, you can build a bridge and the same FG can move units across it with a second section card played in the neighboring section.

Yes, adjecent FG's can use the bridge, since it is build in the order fase off the other FG, before the move fase.

Yes, since you can play 2 section cards, a FG can build 2 bridges in the same turn, in adjecent sections.

This gives Blitzkrieg another meaning at The Cadets of Saumur ! Cool
      
Almilcar
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Re:Overlord - Constructing a Pontoon and crossing it in the same turn Wed, 09 May 2012 15:42
Yes, it looks like you can my friend! Razz
      
    
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