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Almilcar
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Paradrops - Any alternatives? Sun, 08 April 2012 21:37
Hello,

I'd like to know if you guys use any alternative when using Paradrops rather than dropping the figures onto the board.

Thanks
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Mon, 09 April 2012 04:08
Why would you want an alternative to the Paradrops? I love the scenarios where I get to drop my troops onto the board and launch my attack from the unexpected spots!! Very Happy It's one of the exciting little parts of the game that I enjoy... Razz
      
Almilcar
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Mon, 09 April 2012 08:11
Hello Ras,

yea, I know. Though I do like the way it is implemented in Vassal. 1 spot to drop the paratroopers and a roll to check where they safely - or not - land.

I wondered if ppl had any other alternatives.

Regards
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Mon, 09 April 2012 08:45
Almilcar wrote on Mon, 09 April 2012 10:11

Hello Ras,

yea, I know. Though I do like the way it is implemented in Vassal. 1 spot to drop the paratroopers and a roll to check where they safely - or not - land.

I wondered if ppl had any other alternatives.

Regards


Ah, I see. Well good luck in your search! The Vassal way of doing the drop sounds like an interesting one. Smile
      
Nygaard
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Mon, 09 April 2012 10:24
You could make little parachutes and have them come out of a paper plane...
      
Phread
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Mon, 09 April 2012 12:28
Why not use the real aircraft? Several are still flying in New Zealand.
My son & I have been on a scenic flight on one of them.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Mon, 09 April 2012 13:20
Phread wrote on Mon, 09 April 2012 14:28

Why not use the real aircraft? Several are still flying in New Zealand.
My son & I have been on a scenic flight on one of them.


That's a brilliant idea!! Very Happy Talk about making the game 'realistic'! The trick might be hitting the board with your men from 1,000 m but if you manage that, I say the units land safely. Laughing
      
JJAZ
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Mon, 09 April 2012 14:27
You could do it like in vassal.
Take a starting point and roll a regular 6 sided die as we use to do it on vassal(alocate each number with a direction).
I have even a special die with the winddirections written on the die itself.
I believe also this is a better way especialy for tournaments.
      
Almilcar
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Mon, 09 April 2012 15:16
JJAZ wrote on Mon, 09 April 2012 14:27

You could do it like in vassal.
Take a starting point and roll a regular 6 sided die as we use to do it on vassal(alocate each number with a direction).
I have even a special die with the winddirections written on the die itself.
I believe also this is a better way especialy for tournaments.


Hello JJAZ, I do prefer this method rather the "dropping figures" one. I'm gonna try to work out decals for them... let's see what I do get.

Regards
      
JFKoski
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Mon, 09 April 2012 17:42
Make the scenario with the editor, start the game with Johnny, then use the drop results, before quitting.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Mon, 09 April 2012 17:52
JFKoski wrote on Mon, 09 April 2012 19:42

Make the scenario with the editor, start the game with Johnny, then use the drop results, before quitting.


That's an interesting way of creating a Random Drop and not something I would have thought of. It would cost a few GI each time, but would be an interesting method! Very Happy
      
djedi gamer
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Mon, 09 April 2012 23:44
Almilcar wrote on Sun, 08 April 2012 21:37

Hello,

I'd like to know if you guys use any alternative when using Paradrops rather than dropping the figures onto the board.

Thanks


Put your soldiers in the middle of the board and just firmly shake the table. Sometimes you will experience with a brand new scenario!
Laughing

You know I'm kidding?
      
Phread
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Mon, 09 April 2012 23:54
rasmussen81 wrote on Mon, 09 April 2012 23:20

Phread wrote on Mon, 09 April 2012 14:28

Why not use the real aircraft? Several are still flying in New Zealand.
My son & I have been on a scenic flight on one of them.


That's a brilliant idea!! Very Happy Talk about making the game 'realistic'! The trick might be hitting the board with your men from 1,000 m but if you manage that, I say the units land safely. Laughing


I was thinking more of you could sit on the steps of the C47/DC3 and drop the figures on the board.

Proper paratroopers would struggle to hit the board from 1000 feet.
I know I would have (struggled to hit the board) when I was jumping - and I had the benefit of a RAM air canopy.
      
JFKoski
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Tue, 10 April 2012 07:20
rasmussen81 wrote on Mon, 09 April 2012 11:52


That's an interesting way of creating a Random Drop and not something I would have thought of. It would cost a few GI each time, but would be an interesting method! Very Happy


You get your GIs back when you quit.

I think quitting with Johnny doesn't affect your honor, but I can't be sure. I've been testing scenarios/rules vs Johnny without finishing. I've also had connection problems with the game server, so wasn't able to reconnect to complete 3 games lately against human opponents. Now my honor's 2, but is it from quitting with Johnny all the time or from these few disconnects?

I guess it's been more than 3 this past month, since there were a few SFTF games that didn't work right so we quit by mutual agreement, and didn't finish (no record).

[Updated on: Tue, 10 April 2012 07:25]

      
Almilcar
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Tue, 10 April 2012 20:02
JJAZ wrote on Mon, 09 April 2012 14:27

You could do it like in vassal.
Take a starting point and roll a regular 6 sided die as we use to do it on vassal(alocate each number with a direction).
I have even a special die with the winddirections written on the die itself.
I believe also this is a better way especialy for tournaments.


I have to try how this fits on my blank dice:

http://i40.tinypic.com/33abfis.png
      
stevens
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Tue, 10 April 2012 21:17
Almilcar wrote on Tue, 10 April 2012 14:02

JJAZ wrote on Mon, 09 April 2012 14:27

You could do it like in vassal.
Take a starting point and roll a regular 6 sided die as we use to do it on vassal(alocate each number with a direction).
I have even a special die with the winddirections written on the die itself.
I believe also this is a better way especialy for tournaments.


I have to try how this fits on my blank dice:

http://i40.tinypic.com/33abfis.png


A HEX only has 6 sides in Memoir ' 44

So these are the only directions you need:

- NE
- NW
- E
- W
- SE
- SW
      
Almilcar
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Tue, 10 April 2012 21:39
I did all of them, cos I wasn't sure what cardinal points to choose. But thanks for the clarification.

Regards
      
Phread
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Tue, 10 April 2012 22:01
stevens wrote on Wed, 11 April 2012 07:17

Almilcar wrote on Tue, 10 April 2012 14:02

JJAZ wrote on Mon, 09 April 2012 14:27

You could do it like in vassal.
Take a starting point and roll a regular 6 sided die as we use to do it on vassal(alocate each number with a direction).
I have even a special die with the winddirections written on the die itself.
I believe also this is a better way especialy for tournaments.


I have to try how this fits on my blank dice:

http://i40.tinypic.com/33abfis.png


A HEX only has 6 sides in Memoir ' 44

So these are the only directions you need:

- NE
- NW
- E
- W
- SE
- SW


There is a 7th option - drop on the target hex, i.e. no drift.
      
stevens
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Tue, 10 April 2012 23:38
Phread wrote on Tue, 10 April 2012 16:01

stevens wrote on Wed, 11 April 2012 07:17

Almilcar wrote on Tue, 10 April 2012 14:02

JJAZ wrote on Mon, 09 April 2012 14:27

You could do it like in vassal.
Take a starting point and roll a regular 6 sided die as we use to do it on vassal(alocate each number with a direction).
I have even a special die with the winddirections written on the die itself.
I believe also this is a better way especialy for tournaments.


I have to try how this fits on my blank dice:

http://i40.tinypic.com/33abfis.png


A HEX only has 6 sides in Memoir ' 44

So these are the only directions you need:

- NE
- NW
- E
- W
- SE
- SW


There is a 7th option - drop on the target hex, i.e. no drift.


Not when you are using a dice to determine the drop point. It may be that ALL your movement puts you directly back on the drop designated hex, but you will always move first.
      
JFKoski
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Wed, 11 April 2012 02:10
If you're going to roll dice you may as well roll a 20-sided + a 6-sided die four times. The 20 represents the target hex #1 + 18 surrounding hexes. #20 means it flew off the board!

--9-A-B
-8-2-3-C
J-7-1-4-D
-I.-6-5-E
--H-G-F

------->K

The 6-sided die represents which hex line it crosses.

-1-2
6-X-3
-5-4

So a roll of 11,5 means it lands in B, if both B and 3 are clear.

[Updated on: Wed, 11 April 2012 02:16]

      
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Wed, 11 April 2012 05:45
JFKoski wrote on Wed, 11 April 2012 04:10

If you're going to roll dice you may as well roll a 20-sided + a 6-sided die four times. The 20 represents the target hex #1 + 18 surrounding hexes. #20 means it flew off the board!


This is a good point...if you're going to roll dice, you have to have some way of knowing if the unit flew off the board! Because otherwise you have 100% chance of landing, which isn't following the original rule system of dropping units. Confused
      
Antoine
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Wed, 11 April 2012 12:04
Here is an alternative chart that some friends of mine are using.
They first choose a landing hex, then roll a 8-sided die.
1= paradrop failed
8= unit lands on target hex
2-7= unit lands 1 hex away, going clockwise.

http://tof.canardpc.com/preview/24332313-e80e-4263-8715-7357738bd3bb.jpg

Edit - as far as I'm concerned, I prefer playing as per the official rule, as you can guess Smug

[Updated on: Wed, 11 April 2012 12:05]

      
stevens
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Wed, 11 April 2012 12:18
I think that there is some confusion for how the Paradrop rules work in Vassal.

Yes, there is a (6) sided dice generator, however, you don't just get (1) roll of the dice from the targeted drop hex but (5) rolls. So there is actually a sequence of moves that follow from the original spot. It is possible that you could end up a maximum of 5 hexes in any direction from that drop point.

EXAMPLE 1
I roll for the first unit and I get:
W-W-W-W-W

If the original target drop hex is 3 hexes from the Western side of the board, then the unit will ACTUALLY move off the board and is thus unable to make a safe drop. It will start in the target hex and move 1 hex west, then another hex west, etc. Until it has literally moved off the board.

EXAMPLE 2
I roll for the second unit and get:
W-NE-E-NE-SE

Once the unit moves these directions, one hex at a time from the target hex, it turns out it is in a another hex ALREADY OCCUPIED by another unit previously on the board. The drop is unsuccessful and the unit does not make a safe drop. No sharing hexes.

EXAMPLE 3
I roll for the third unit and get:
W-E-SE-SE-NE
The unit ends its drop movements on an empty hex. This drop succeeds.

All these units START at the same target hex but each drop is handled separately. I hope this makes what I have said previously make more sense.

[Updated on: Wed, 11 April 2012 12:31]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Wed, 11 April 2012 13:36
stevens wrote on Wed, 11 April 2012 14:18

I think that there is some confusion for how the Paradrop rules work in Vassal.

-Snip-

All these units START at the same target hex but each drop is handled separately. I hope this makes what I have said previously make more sense.


Yes, that makes much more sense! Thanks for sharing the detials of the Vassal system with me. By my thinking, that would be a quick and effective random generator for a computer but would take a lot of time for the table-top game.

Like Antoine, I would much rather play by the official rules for airdrops...but everyone likes something a little different and I think that's what makes this such a great community. Smile

Almilcar, have you decided which method you'll try using?
      
Almilcar
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Wed, 11 April 2012 15:18
rasmussen81 wrote on Wed, 11 April 2012 13:36


Almilcar, have you decided which method you'll try using?


Yes, we'll stick with the Vassal method. And my guessings about how it was implemented there were more or less accurate.

So, in my graphic, the "Paradrops" circular token represents the spot in which the player is trying to deploy the units.

Afterwards, he will throw 5 dice for each unit to get where the unit will safely - or not - land.

We will use six-sided dice containing the following cardinal points: NE - E - SE - SW - W - NW

I'm working on the decals, and I'll share them with the community.

Regards

[Updated on: Wed, 11 April 2012 15:19]

      
50th
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Wed, 11 April 2012 17:23
I would like to add that you could do it this way;
First roll as above to find a target hex, then roll drift:
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg214/ronh51/Games/HexDrift.jpg

You could then roll another 6 sided die to find range of drift.
Re-roll for each figure dropped.

      
Almilcar
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Tue, 08 May 2012 18:30
Ok, we finally made our mind and ended up building our own set of dice for the paradrops.

Here is a screenshot of the decals.

http://i45.tinypic.com/24fl65e.png

Next project:

http://i48.tinypic.com/o8i8ux.jpg

to spice up the 3D feeling!

[Updated on: Tue, 08 May 2012 19:45]

      
JJAZ
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Wed, 09 May 2012 07:27
stevens wrote on Wed, 11 April 2012 12:18

I think that there is some confusion for how the Paradrop rules work in Vassal.

Yes, there is a (6) sided dice generator, however, you don't just get (1) roll of the dice from the targeted drop hex but (5) rolls. So there is actually a sequence of moves that follow from the original spot. It is possible that you could end up a maximum of 5 hexes in any direction from that drop point.

EXAMPLE 1
I roll for the first unit and I get:
W-W-W-W-W

If the original target drop hex is 3 hexes from the Western side of the board, then the unit will ACTUALLY move off the board and is thus unable to make a safe drop. It will start in the target hex and move 1 hex west, then another hex west, etc. Until it has literally moved off the board.

EXAMPLE 2
I roll for the second unit and get:
W-NE-E-NE-SE

Once the unit moves these directions, one hex at a time from the target hex, it turns out it is in a another hex ALREADY OCCUPIED by another unit previously on the board. The drop is unsuccessful and the unit does not make a safe drop. No sharing hexes.

EXAMPLE 3
I roll for the third unit and get:
W-E-SE-SE-NE
The unit ends its drop movements on an empty hex. This drop succeeds.

All these units START at the same target hex but each drop is handled separately. I hope this makes what I have said previously make more sense.


I recently played some paradropscenario's from CB2 on vassal.
(Drop in the night 82nd and 101st)
My opponent landed 100% of his troops from 3 given starting points so i believe the die generator is a good system.
      
Almilcar
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Wed, 09 May 2012 07:42
JJAZ wrote on Wed, 09 May 2012 07:27


I recently played some paradropscenario's from CB2 on vassal.
(Drop in the night 82nd and 101st)
My opponent landed 100% of his troops from 3 given starting points so i believe the die generator is a good system.


I'm very fond in the way Vassal has implemented this feature and that is why we have built our own set of dice.

Very Happy
      
ad79
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Wed, 09 May 2012 10:05
Almilcar wrote on Wed, 09 May 2012 07:42

JJAZ wrote on Wed, 09 May 2012 07:27


I recently played some paradropscenario's from CB2 on vassal.
(Drop in the night 82nd and 101st)
My opponent landed 100% of his troops from 3 given starting points so i believe the die generator is a good system.


I'm very fond in the way Vassal has implemented this feature and that is why we have built our own set of dice.

Very Happy

When me and stevens played the Air Aces on vassal I only landed 4 out of 6 paratroopers in Rescue of Mussolini, so it isn't always safe to drop, even the vassal way Laughing
      
sdnative
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Thu, 10 May 2012 15:54
50th wrote on Wed, 11 April 2012 08:23

I would like to add that you could do it this way;
First roll as above to find a target hex, then roll drift:
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg214/ronh51/Games/HexDrift.jpg

You could then roll another 6 sided die to find range of drift.
Re-roll for each figure dropped.




Like it! Not only covers direction but how many hexes to drift, if I remember right this is the way the ASL system handles airdrops but hexes in ASL are much smaller than the hexes in M44 so might make the drift 1-2 = 1 hex 3-4 = 2 and 5-6 = 3 hex drift.

P.S.
This way is much simpler and you do not need to make any special dice! Unless you are the OCD type Laughing Laughing Laughing

[Updated on: Thu, 10 May 2012 17:41]

      
bdgza
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Thu, 10 May 2012 17:05
I'm glad people like my paradrop die Smile. In module 8.x and before people rolled figure dice a few times, but that would skew the landing (since 2x INF). And I also felt 5x was about the right amount to roll. I see you agree.
      
Ann W
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Thu, 17 May 2012 18:19
Some interesting ideas. Personally I find physically dropping the little guys onto the board amusing and fun while making little aircraft noises or saying lines from war movies, but I could see where that would not be for everyone - especially if you went to the trouble of painting your figures.

A scenario in one of the Warhammer 40K books (I play orks) has one dropping little pieces of paper onto the map for artillery barrages. One could do something like that for the paratroop drops I imagine?

The various dice and computer schemes for doing the drops look interesting but they aren't going to have quite the same types of possibilities or basic range of results as physically dropping stuff onto the board.

-- Ann

[Updated on: Thu, 17 May 2012 18:20]

      
Almilcar
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Re:Paradrops - Any alternatives? Thu, 17 May 2012 18:55
bdgza wrote on Thu, 10 May 2012 17:05

I'm glad people like my paradrop die Smile. In module 8.x and before people rolled figure dice a few times, but that would skew the landing (since 2x INF). And I also felt 5x was about the right amount to roll. I see you agree.


Bart, I'm eagerly awaiting for version 10.7 Smile
      
    
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