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rasmussen81
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C&C Game System Tue, 12 June 2012 07:40
I love the Richard Borg system that he created with Command and Colors...card-driven games where you roll dice, move your troops, and navigate terrain. Hours of fun just waiting to happen!! Very Happy

I've only ever played Memoir '44, so I don't have any experience with the game system as a whole. In another thread, Orc Breath (great User Name, by the way) said that he likes the Ancients series the best.

I know very little about the various C&C systems and wondered what other people think. Which one is your favorite? Cool
      
Phread
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Re:C&C Game System Tue, 12 June 2012 08:10
Jesse aren't you off topic for a M44 forum Question
Shouldn't this be posted in the general forum Question

      
rasmussen81
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Re:C&C Game System Tue, 12 June 2012 08:26
Phread wrote on Tue, 12 June 2012 10:10

Jesse aren't you off topic for a M44 forum Question
Shouldn't this be posted in the general forum Question




You might be right... Rolling Eyes I figured that since it was comparing Memoir '44 with other C&C games it belonged here. Maybe not. Razz
      
ad79
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Re:C&C Game System Tue, 12 June 2012 09:36
Ancients is in the works as an IPad game. Slated for release late summer. I think that would be a good way to try it out.

I think Napoleonics is also planned for the IPad.
      
Jaykay2010
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Re:C&C Game System Tue, 12 June 2012 11:12
A friend of mine tried Memoir 44 the other day, but was left convinced that Ancients is far superior ...

I havent played it myself so cant comment personally, but I'm curious to try it now to see what the differences are ... he mentioned a 'battle-back' rule which he thought made the game far more tactical.

Jim

      
Antoi
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Re:C&C Game System Tue, 12 June 2012 12:17
The problem with memoir is that there is fare more distant fighting. CC ancient is more close combat (like battlelore which i've played a few times) So battle back can be a problem.

Besides that, memoir is less complex that CC ancient (i have only read the rules and there are so many different units) although the last expansions for memoir made it more difficult en complex.

[Updated on: Tue, 12 June 2012 12:19]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:C&C Game System Tue, 12 June 2012 12:54
One of the huge things for me is the figures!! I'm just not sure if I would enjoy a game as much if I'm pushing around little wooden bloacks instead of little army men. Razz

I realize that it's cosmetic, but the truth is that I really like seeing the board all set up with the terrain and units layed out it battle formation and ready to start! Very Happy
      
Nygaard
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Re:C&C Game System Tue, 12 June 2012 13:13
rasmussen81 wrote on Tue, 12 June 2012 12:54

One of the huge things for me is the figures!! I'm just not sure if I would enjoy a game as much if I'm pushing around little wooden bloacks instead of little army men. Razz

I realize that it's cosmetic, but the truth is that I really like seeing the board all set up with the terrain and units layed out it battle formation and ready to start! Very Happy


Couldn't agree more. I've played all of the C&C Ancient and current expansions, but it's not a game I go back to that often for two reasons:
1) It's not as pleasing visually - and the kid in me wants little toy soldiers, not wooden blocks.
2) It takes much longer to teach a new player.

That said, I DO think that Ancients is where the idea of the C&C COMMAND PART of the system is at it's strongest, mainly because that was exactly how fights where often fought in ancient times - and it was the way people thought about a battlefield (Center, left and right flank).

Overall, however, Mem44 has more longevity and more possibilities to evolve.

I'm still looking forward to trying out Napoleonics!
      
rasmussen81
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Re:C&C Game System Tue, 12 June 2012 13:42
See that's just it...I'm extremely reluctant to spend the money (and I've seen some of the other C&C games going for $80+) on a game that has so much lower production quality!

Maybe I'm spoiled from starting with Memoir '44, but part of the fun for me is setting up the battle, and with the figures, the great terrain tiles, the badges, and the new variety of units, this game draws me in. Smile

I'm afraid I would have such a sinking feeling of buyers-regret if I plopped down even $60 on a game that I ended up not liking because it didn't capture my imagination. To be honest, I don't know if I'm enough of a "war-gamer" to overlook the visual side of things and simply see the better rules.

I would be willing to try the other C&C variations, but I don't know anyone who has it so I'm not sure when that might happen! Rolling Eyes
      
ad79
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Re:C&C Game System Tue, 12 June 2012 14:18
Jesse, you could try Ancients on Vassal. Very Happy As long as one of the players own the game GMT is fine with vassal.
That way you don't have to fork out the money for the game to try it out.
That is the route I'm contemplating for both Ancients and Napoleonics.

You could also try Battle Cry. That has miniatures and is about the ACW. You might find that war interesting. It is supposted to be easier than Memoir.
      
trentdep
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Re:C&C Game System Tue, 12 June 2012 17:23
rasmussen81 wrote on Tue, 12 June 2012 07:42



Maybe I'm spoiled from starting with Memoir '44, but part of the fun for me is setting up the battle, and with the figures, the great terrain tiles, the badges, and the new variety of units, this game draws me in. Smile

I would be willing to try the other C&C variations, but I don't know anyone who has it so I'm not sure when that might happen! Rolling Eyes



Absolutely try Battle Cry! Used ( non 150th Anniversary edition ) can be had for under 30$ delivered on ebay...

A little less color than Memoir ( not sure about the 150th ) but just as much fun!!
      
Nygaard
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Re:C&C Game System Tue, 12 June 2012 17:47
trentdep wrote on Tue, 12 June 2012 17:23

rasmussen81 wrote on Tue, 12 June 2012 07:42



Maybe I'm spoiled from starting with Memoir '44, but part of the fun for me is setting up the battle, and with the figures, the great terrain tiles, the badges, and the new variety of units, this game draws me in. Smile

I would be willing to try the other C&C variations, but I don't know anyone who has it so I'm not sure when that might happen! Rolling Eyes



Absolutely try Battle Cry! Used ( non 150th Anniversary edition ) can be had for under 30$ delivered on ebay...

A little less color than Memoir ( not sure about the 150th ) but just as much fun!!


As a stand-alone game, I'd say the original Battle Cry is just perfect. Even easier to learn than Memoir44 and a great range of interesting battles. The 150th Ann. Version is great too, but I actually prefer the older version because it's more fast paced and has less complicated rules. Though you need to take out All-Out-Assault right away - that was just a bad idea.
      
ClanNatioy
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Re:C&C Game System Wed, 13 June 2012 01:31
For me I enjoy napoleonics and ancients more then memoir. And I have found that teaching people napoleonics and ancients is really easy after they have played a couple of games of memoir.

Also about the wooden blocks I like them a ton more then miniatures. Wooden blocks are easier to set up move around the board and put away. They're also much easier to store.
And I like the visual affect of blocks more then miniatures. With miniatures it makes it hard for me to imagine that a hex with four minis is actully more then four guys. When I see an army set up for ancients or napoleonics I really get this feel of big armies smashing into each other.
      
Achtung Panzer
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Re:C&C Game System Wed, 13 June 2012 10:23
I started with Memoir, quickly got all the expansions and have kept up to date with each expansion ever since. It ticks all my boxes for a fast, fun yet challenging WW2 board game.

On the basis of this and being interested in military history, I bought C&C : Ancients and guess what - the same thing happened.

So no surprise that I have the complete C&C: Napoleonic sets too.

Now I agree that DoW's use of figures puts them top of the C&C pile, but my imagination means the wooden blocks aren't a problem. What I'm saying is that each version seems to produce the correct historical feel yet retain the "fast, fun and challenging" aspects of what I'm looking for. And judging by the way the expansions go OoP I'm not alone in this.

Yes, you can spend an awful lot of money on Richard Borg's games, but the ROI and VFM are almost incalculable!
      
rasmussen81
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Re:C&C Game System Wed, 13 June 2012 14:03
Interesting...these are some strong votes for the other C&C systems. It's good to hear that my impression of Memoir '44 having the highest production quality (with figures, good boards, badges, etc) is accurate so at least if I get another game I won't be expecting the same quality as Memoir '44 and therefore be disappointed.

Has anyone heard much about the new-ish Feudal Japan version of C&C that came out recently? I think I remember someone talking about it but don't remember the name or if they said it was good. Razz Feudal Japan is a time period I've read some about, so that might be fun as well. Smile
      
Bayernkini
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Re:C&C Game System Wed, 13 June 2012 14:09
My favorite CC system is CCNapoleonics,
because i love this historical epoche Razz

And i prefer the important different rule of all other CC games,
that units battle only with the current strength Razz

And third, you have a good effort website on
Alessandros http://www.ccnapoleonics.net/


Beside CCN, i love also Battlecry, because its the simplest of all CC games. You know the rules after 3 game (latest) and its ideal for newbies, to learn the CC game system.
Sadly WoC is not Hasbro or GMT, so they didnt allowed also an
effort website similar CCAncients.net or CCNapoleonics.net Sad

But Battlecry is ideal for other variants like the British-Afghan-Wars
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/767614/afghan-wars-varia nt

British-Zulu-Wars
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/631595/isandhlwana

or battles in Wild West
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/629261/little-big-horn-s cenario

as you can see on these examples Smile

and if you want to try Battlecry (new 2010 Edtion) online with the Vassal client, mail me Smile

[Updated on: Wed, 13 June 2012 14:16]

      
ClanNatioy
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Re:C&C Game System Wed, 13 June 2012 15:29
rasmussen81 wrote on Wed, 13 June 2012 08:03

Interesting...these are some strong votes for the other C&C systems. It's good to hear that my impression of Memoir '44 having the highest production quality (with figures, good boards, badges, etc) is accurate so at least if I get another game I won't be expecting the same quality as Memoir '44 and therefore be disappointed.

Has anyone heard much about the new-ish Feudal Japan version of C&C that came out recently? I think I remember someone talking about it but don't remember the name or if they said it was good. Razz Feudal Japan is a time period I've read some about, so that might be fun as well. Smile


The new game is called samurai battles and you can find it here:
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/122913/samurai-battles
and it might be more to your taste if you really enjoy miniatures in your games because it will have a ton of them.

      
rasmussen81
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Re:C&C Game System Wed, 13 June 2012 15:46
CarriCommander wrote on Wed, 13 June 2012 17:29

The new game is called samurai battles and you can find it here:
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/122913/samurai-battles
and it might be more to your taste if you really enjoy miniatures in your games because it will have a ton of them.




Perfect! Thanks for the link and the name of the game...Interesting that it's such a straight forward name. Smile

Does anyone have this yet to say how it actually plays out on the table? Rolling Eyes
      
ClanNatioy
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Re:C&C Game System Wed, 13 June 2012 17:57
rasmussen81 wrote on Wed, 13 June 2012 09:46

CarriCommander wrote on Wed, 13 June 2012 17:29

The new game is called samurai battles and you can find it here:
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/122913/samurai-battles
and it might be more to your taste if you really enjoy miniatures in your games because it will have a ton of them.




Perfect! Thanks for the link and the name of the game...Interesting that it's such a straight forward name. Smile

Does anyone have this yet to say how it actually plays out on the table? Rolling Eyes


I think it is a pretty standard Commands and Colors game. But from what I have heard it might be more close to how battlelore plays. So if you're familiar with that game you will have an idea how it plays.

I believe it has some sort of lore system like battlelore does but you will be collecting honor instead of lore.
Troop types have banners that tell you what weapon they're using (also they have different miniatures for each weapon type) and the different weapon types will have different abilities and different number of dice rolled when you attack.
But then it has section cards to order your units like any other Commands and Colors game.

It is also two games in one. Another designer made rules that use the same components so in the one box you will get two games. I don't know anything about the non Richard Borg version of the game though.

The game looks like it could be a lot of fun but I will probably not be picking it up because I'm worried it will turn into a money sink trying to keep up with each new set of miniatures that comes out.

If Samurai Battles doesn't appeal to you then check out Abaddon. It is another Richard Borg game that came out fairly recently. It has cool sci-fi mech minis and it is simple to learn and teach. It sets up quickly it plays quickly and it gets put away quickly.

Abaddon is different than the Commands and Colors system though. You roll dice to order units and you use cards to make attacks so it is reversed from the usual. You still roll dice to resolve the attacks you just use the cards to make them and they add modifiers to your attack. Also the game uses squares instead of hexes. Terrain and LOS is handed differently. It is a really fun game though and it plays 2, 3, or 4 players which is nice.

Sorry this post is so long
      
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Re:C&C Game System Wed, 13 June 2012 17:59
Also sorry but I forgot to say that Samurai battles isn't actually out yet but it is supposed to be very soon. So everything I have said about it is just the stuff I have read and it is not from actual experience playing the game.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:C&C Game System Wed, 13 June 2012 18:21
CarriCommander wrote on Wed, 13 June 2012 19:59

Also sorry but I forgot to say that Samurai battles isn't actually out yet but it is supposed to be very soon. So everything I have said about it is just the stuff I have read and it is not from actual experience playing the game.


Great! Thanks for all of the information about Samurai Battles. It sounds like an interesting game but in the little research I did it looked like you have to buy sets of troops, so like you I could see that becoming a money pit that I don't want to jump into. Too bad, because it looks interesting.

I'll have to read up on Abaddon because I haven't heard of that one. Sounds like fun! Cool

Thanks again for the information and don't worry about the length of your post...usually long posts simply mean more good information! Very Happy
      
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Re:C&C Game System Wed, 13 June 2012 18:31
Yeah you should definitely look into Abaddon it is a blast. Let me know if you have any questions about the game and I'll do my best to answer them.
      
ad79
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Re:C&C Game System Wed, 13 June 2012 18:33
Videos of interviews of Mr. Borg about Abaddon and Samurai Battles


http://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/11124/boardgamegeek-at-ori gins-2012-day-1-samurai-battl
      
rasmussen81
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Re:C&C Game System Wed, 13 June 2012 21:12
ad79 wrote on Wed, 13 June 2012 20:33

Videos of interviews of Mr. Borg about Abaddon and Samurai Battles


http://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/11124/boardgamegeek-at-ori gins-2012-day-1-samurai-battl


Thanks for sharing that link! What a great series of interviews, and a great insight into the person behind Memoir '44!! Smile

If you have time, everyone should watch these interviews just to get an idea of who Richard Borg is even though he's talking about games other than Memoir '44 (though of course Memoir '44 is talked about a bit)! Cool
      
mwalbion
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Re:C&C Game System Wed, 13 June 2012 23:29
Jesse

Samurai Battles, as is, right now.. is complete for C&C.

The extra unit boxes - are currently for the Art of Tactic part of the game, which allows point costs for armies and not strict set-up according to a scenario map.

Samurai Battles will have extra C&C info in the near future - both online and in the mini packs and there is talk of a siege supplement and more scenarios.

These rules will be for the ninja and monk units as well as the new Samurai troop types.


btw.. Hate wooden blocks ? Want to learn some history..?

Take a look at this..

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/165004/toys-for-my-boys


      
rasmussen81
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Re:C&C Game System Thu, 14 June 2012 04:12
mwalbion wrote on Thu, 14 June 2012 01:29

Jesse

Samurai Battles, as is, right now.. is complete for C&C.

The extra unit boxes - are currently for the Art of Tactic part of the game, which allows point costs for armies and not strict set-up according to a scenario map.

Samurai Battles will have extra C&C info in the near future - both online and in the mini packs and there is talk of a siege supplement and more scenarios.

These rules will be for the ninja and monk units as well as the new Samurai troop types.


Ah, that makes sense. I wondered how the C&C system worked with adding little mini groups of soldiers. If I ever have an abundance of time on my hands and a little bit of money waiting to be spent I might pick that up! Who knows when those two factors will happen, though! Smile


Quote:

btw.. Hate wooden blocks ? Want to learn some history..?

Take a look at this..

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/165004/toys-for-my-boys


Very interesting. I have to admit that the troops on the board look pretty cool! Thanks for sharing the link. Very Happy
      
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Re:C&C Game System Thu, 14 June 2012 12:37
rasmussen81 wrote on Tue, 12 June 2012 06:42

Maybe I'm spoiled from starting with Memoir '44, but part of the fun for me is setting up the battle, and with the figures, the great terrain tiles, the badges, and the new variety of units, this game draws me in. Smile


I totally agree! I played BC before Memoir, but both games drew me in because of the miniatures. And once I read the rules, the simplicity of the rules got me. And the totally cool thing about this game system, is that you can choose the level of complexity that you want. You can play a game with just the basic set if you want, or you can play a breakthrough scenario, an overlord scenario, or a campaign! You choose the expansions to use when you choose the scenario. So I can play a basic game with one friend, while playing a rules intensive game with another!

      
    
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