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Almilcar
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Equipment Pack - Mortars (Late War) Wed, 08 August 2012 23:28
Hello,

If I'm not wrong this is one of the rules than have been slightly updated.

Now, a Late War Mortar always ignore the terrain battle protections, but if it moves, it does need line of sight unlike the former rule.

Please, confirm if I understood correctly

Cheers Razz
      
stevens
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Re:Equipment Pack - Mortars (Late War) Wed, 08 August 2012 23:34
This question was hashed out with great deliberation months ago.

If a Late War Mortar remains in place, it fires at 3-2-1-1 and does not need LOS. (it is firing its pre-ranged mortar)

If a Late War Mortar moves it fires at 3-2-1 as if it were a regular infantry unit. And yes, it needs LOS just like a regular infantry unit. (they are using their carbines while on the move)

 http://cdn0.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/img/mm_compendium_swa_6.jpg

[Updated on: Wed, 08 August 2012 23:36]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:Equipment Pack - Mortars (Late War) Wed, 08 August 2012 23:37
stevens wrote on Thu, 09 August 2012 01:34

This question was hashed out with great deliberation months ago.

If a Late War Mortar remains in place, it fires at 3-2-1-1 and does not need LOS. (it is firing its pre-ranged mortar)

If a Late War Mortar moves it fires at 3-2-1 as if it were a regular infantry unit. And yes it needs LOS just like a regular infantry unit. (they are using their carbines while on the move)


I can't remember, and don't have the information in front of me, but was this included in the FAQ information for the next update? Rolling Eyes
      
stevens
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Re:Equipment Pack - Mortars (Late War) Wed, 08 August 2012 23:38
rasmussen81 wrote on Wed, 08 August 2012 17:37

stevens wrote on Thu, 09 August 2012 01:34

This question was hashed out with great deliberation months ago.

If a Late War Mortar remains in place, it fires at 3-2-1-1 and does not need LOS. (it is firing its pre-ranged mortar)

If a Late War Mortar moves it fires at 3-2-1 as if it were a regular infantry unit. And yes it needs LOS just like a regular infantry unit. (they are using their carbines while on the move)


I can't remember, and don't have the information in front of me, but was this included in the FAQ information for the next update? Rolling Eyes

To the best of my knowledge it was, but I will check when I get home. I know I was on the LOSING side of the argument so no question about how it turned out. Confused Mad
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Equipment Pack - Mortars (Late War) Wed, 08 August 2012 23:46
stevens wrote on Thu, 09 August 2012 01:38

rasmussen81 wrote on Wed, 08 August 2012 17:37

stevens wrote on Thu, 09 August 2012 01:34

This question was hashed out with great deliberation months ago.

If a Late War Mortar remains in place, it fires at 3-2-1-1 and does not need LOS. (it is firing its pre-ranged mortar)

If a Late War Mortar moves it fires at 3-2-1 as if it were a regular infantry unit. And yes it needs LOS just like a regular infantry unit. (they are using their carbines while on the move)


I can't remember, and don't have the information in front of me, but was this included in the FAQ information for the next update? Rolling Eyes

To the best of my knowledge it was, but I will check when I get home.


I'll see if I can get access to it and check as well.

Quote:

I know I was on the LOSING side of the argument so no question about how it turned out. Confused Mad


Ah, but it's not about winning and losing!! Cool Especially when it comes to the FAQ, where the goal is knowledge, and if we learn an answer we've all won! Very Happy Stevens, you always do a good job searching for the answers... Smile

[Updated on: Wed, 08 August 2012 23:47]

      
stevens
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Re:Equipment Pack - Mortars (Late War) Thu, 09 August 2012 01:56
From the document I sent you Jesse:
Quote:

5NOV11
Late War Mortar
Q. Does a Late War Mortar never need LOS, or does it only need LOS if it moves to battle?
A. If a unit with a Late War Mortar moves it combats like a normal infantry unit at [3-2-1] and it will need LOS to its target. If the unit with a Late War Mortar does not move, it does not need LOS and it may increase its firing range an additional hex [3-2-1-1].


So if you were to search the forums for that date under Mortars you would probably find the discussion:

http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?goto=231667#msg_231667

Check out my comment of Nov. 6, 2011

Quote:

This is obviously a question that, in the end, will be decided by DOW and appear in any update to the FAQ.


Was I prescient or what? Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

[Updated on: Thu, 09 August 2012 02:01]

      
sam1812
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Re:Equipment Pack - Mortars (Late War) Thu, 09 August 2012 01:59
That question is not currently addressed in the published FAQ or supplement.

I can see how someone might misinterpret the last bullet on the summary card. It probably would be good to explicitly spell it out.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Equipment Pack - Mortars (Late War) Thu, 09 August 2012 02:08
sam1812 wrote on Thu, 09 August 2012 03:59

That question is not currently addressed in the published FAQ or supplement.

I can see how someone might misinterpret the last bullet on the summary card. It probably would be good to explicitly spell it out.


Sure, we can do that. What should we write instead?
      
Almilcar
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Re:Equipment Pack - Mortars (Late War) Thu, 09 August 2012 11:37
sam1812 wrote on Thu, 09 August 2012 01:59

That question is not currently addressed in the published FAQ or supplement.

I can see how someone might misinterpret the last bullet on the summary card. It probably would be good to explicitly spell it out.


Yea, I do know sometimes I don't make a deep research, but for this specific topic I went straight to the FAQ and I did a double check in the original summary card and in the manuals.

Since the summary card has been updated for the upcoming expansion, I'm guessing it is to clarify what Stevens said it was discussed some months ago.

Sorry for re-asking.

[Updated on: Thu, 09 August 2012 11:38]

      
sam1812
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Re:Equipment Pack - Mortars (Late War) Thu, 09 August 2012 13:33
rasmussen81 wrote on Wed, 08 August 2012 20:08

Sure, we can do that. What should we write instead?

"When the mortar does not move, it ignores line of sight."

The ambiguity comes from the fact that the LOS comment was made a separate bullet, rather than being included in the bullet about when the unit doesn't move.

By the way, this raises another interesting question. Since early-war SWA can't move and battle, but they are permitted to battle on BEL ... if you order a mortar on BEL, can it ignore LOS on a ranged attack?
      
Quit2
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Re:Equipment Pack - Mortars (Late War) Thu, 09 August 2012 18:19
sam1812 wrote on Thu, 09 August 2012 13:33

rasmussen81 wrote on Wed, 08 August 2012 20:08

Sure, we can do that. What should we write instead?

"When the mortar does not move, it ignores line of sight."

The ambiguity comes from the fact that the LOS comment was made a separate bullet, rather than being included in the bullet about when the unit doesn't move.

By the way, this raises another interesting question. Since early-war SWA can't move and battle, but they are permitted to battle on BEL ... if you order a mortar on BEL, can it ignore LOS on a ranged attack?

I would say YES.
BEL gives anti tank gun his bonus "hits on star" even for early war anti tank gun. So ordering a swa with BEL seems to mean that it can battle as if it didn't move.
      
stevens
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Re:Equipment Pack - Mortars (Late War) Thu, 09 August 2012 20:10
sam1812 wrote on Thu, 09 August 2012 07:33

rasmussen81 wrote on Wed, 08 August 2012 20:08

Sure, we can do that. What should we write instead?

"When the mortar does not move, it ignores line of sight."

The ambiguity comes from the fact that the LOS comment was made a separate bullet, rather than being included in the bullet about when the unit doesn't move.

By the way, this raises another interesting question. Since early-war SWA can't move and battle, but they are permitted to battle on BEL ... if you order a mortar on BEL, can it ignore LOS on a ranged attack?


I would think so as well. The BEL allowing movement trumps the movement restriction for the unit.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Equipment Pack - Mortars (Late War) Thu, 09 August 2012 22:44
I would agree, but I'm including it in my list of questions for Richard Borg and we'll find out for sure! Cool This, along with lots of other new questions, will appear in the next FAQ update. Smile
      
JFKoski
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Re:Equipment Pack - Mortars (Late War) Fri, 10 August 2012 05:13
stevens wrote on Wed, 08 August 2012 17:34

This question was hashed out with great deliberation months ago.

And yes, it needs LOS just like a regular infantry unit. (they are using their carbines while on the move)

 http://cdn0.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/img/mm_compendium_swa_6.jpg


Sure, we discussed it a while ago, but apparently you got the wrong answer. Each point is a rule, so the ignore line of sight is not dependent on whether it moves. Ignoring TERRAIN is dependent on whether it moves or not.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Equipment Pack - Mortars (Late War) Fri, 10 August 2012 05:20
JFKoski wrote on Fri, 10 August 2012 07:13

stevens wrote on Wed, 08 August 2012 17:34

This question was hashed out with great deliberation months ago.

And yes, it needs LOS just like a regular infantry unit. (they are using their carbines while on the move)

 http://cdn0.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/img/mm_compendium_swa_6.jpg


Sure, we discussed it a while ago, but apparently you got the wrong answer. Each point is a rule, so the ignore line of sight is not dependent on whether it moves. Ignoring TERRAIN is dependent on whether it moves or not.


Are you sure about that? Because in the document I just sent off to Richard (for him to check over before I put it in the FAQ) I had that question...and I believe the answer we got was that if the unit moves, it needs LOS on its target.
      
Kelly's Hero
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Re:Equipment Pack - Mortars (Late War) Fri, 10 August 2012 07:11
JFKoski wrote on Thu, 09 August 2012 21:13

stevens wrote on Wed, 08 August 2012 17:34

This question was hashed out with great deliberation months ago.

And yes, it needs LOS just like a regular infantry unit. (they are using their carbines while on the move)

 http://cdn0.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/img/mm_compendium_swa_6.jpg


Sure, we discussed it a while ago, but apparently you got the wrong answer. Each point is a rule, so the ignore line of sight is not dependent on whether it moves. Ignoring TERRAIN is dependent on whether it moves or not.



Here is the answer from Antoine (taken from the thread linked to earlier by stevens)

Antoine wrote on Wed, 09 November 2011 08:27

ad79 écrit le Sat, 05 November 2011 16:16

Simple question I didn't find a clarification for in the Faq(Excellent work, by the way, Jesse and Stevens)

Does the fourth bullet point on the card (Ignore line of sight) applies
1. At all times
or
2. Only when the unit does not move?

Answer is 2. Only when the unit does not move.

When you order your mortar unit to battle, it can
- either stay where it is and use the mortar (as I said on the French forum, imagine that your men are deploying the mortar on the battlefield). In this case, range increases to 4 hexes (3,2,1,1) and the unit ignores LoS and battle terrain restrictions.
- or move 1 hex and battle like an infantry unit - ie exaclty like an infantry unit (your men do not use their mortar, they use their rifles). In this case, LoS is required (battle restrictions still apply and range does not increase).

Sorry if the card was not clear enough.


      
stevens
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Re:Equipment Pack - Mortars (Late War) Fri, 10 August 2012 12:53
Kelly's Hero wrote on Fri, 10 August 2012 01:11

JFKoski wrote on Thu, 09 August 2012 21:13

stevens wrote on Wed, 08 August 2012 17:34

This question was hashed out with great deliberation months ago.

And yes, it needs LOS just like a regular infantry unit. (they are using their carbines while on the move)

 http://cdn0.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/img/mm_compendium_swa_6.jpg


Sure, we discussed it a while ago, but apparently you got the wrong answer. Each point is a rule, so the ignore line of sight is not dependent on whether it moves. Ignoring TERRAIN is dependent on whether it moves or not.



Here is the answer from Antoine (taken from the thread linked to earlier by stevens)

Antoine wrote on Wed, 09 November 2011 08:27

ad79 écrit le Sat, 05 November 2011 16:16

Simple question I didn't find a clarification for in the Faq(Excellent work, by the way, Jesse and Stevens)

Does the fourth bullet point on the card (Ignore line of sight) applies
1. At all times
or
2. Only when the unit does not move?

Answer is 2. Only when the unit does not move.

When you order your mortar unit to battle, it can
- either stay where it is and use the mortar (as I said on the French forum, imagine that your men are deploying the mortar on the battlefield). In this case, range increases to 4 hexes (3,2,1,1) and the unit ignores LoS and battle terrain restrictions.
- or move 1 hex and battle like an infantry unit - ie exaclty like an infantry unit (your men do not use their mortar, they use their rifles). In this case, LoS is required (battle restrictions still apply and range does not increase).

Sorry if the card was not clear enough.






JFKoski,
Yes, I am very sure because I had the answer from Antoine that Kellys Hero just referenced. And because of that, I wrote the following question and answer in the above post - which is correct:

Quote:

5NOV11
Late War Mortar
Q. Does a Late War Mortar never need LOS, or does it only need LOS if it moves to battle?
A. If a unit with a Late War Mortar moves it combats like a normal infantry unit at [3-2-1] and it will need LOS to its target. If the unit with a Late War Mortar does not move, it does not need LOS and it may increase its firing range an additional hex [3-2-1-1].


Thanks Jesse for putting it in the forthcoming FAQ update.
Smile

[Updated on: Fri, 10 August 2012 13:51]

      
JFKoski
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Re:Equipment Pack - Mortars (Late War) Sat, 11 August 2012 04:54
You are correct. I was the one who went by the bullets on the card and forgot Antoine's answer. Sorry.

I do think that if the reference cards are wrong, we need to have new ones in the card compendium for people to print out, like they did for Behind Enemy Lines. Specifically, Road/Railroad Crossing and this Late War Mortar.

I use the reference cards all the time, but don't play with some rules for months and don't have a list handy of official answers that are NOT in the FAQ.

I just posted questions from the Winter Wars FAQ thread on the FAQ request list. Some I found Antoine's official answers, like this one. In the thread from last November I also linked to other discussion threads, but they didn't have official answers.

[Updated on: Sat, 11 August 2012 05:02]

      
stevens
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Re:Equipment Pack - Mortars (Late War) Sat, 11 August 2012 13:02
I appreciate your apology sir.

Thanks for adding those other questions to the FAQ list. I think it may be some time before the next FAQ as Jesse will have his hands full, but it is good to have al that information in the same place.
      
    
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