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50th
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Air Power in Equipment Pack Tue, 22 January 2013 15:26
Why did they change the air power card on page 11 of the Equipment Pack rulebook? I can understand the change of air superiority with time. That's why in my own air rules I gave air superiority to the Axis from '39 to '43, and to the Allies after that. But it doesn't make sense to always have it equal as the new rule on page 11 states. Since they have late war rules on special weapons assets (SWA's), why not late war rules on air power? I think this is how this should be handled instead of just making it equal.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg214/ronh51/Graphic%20Elements/EPAPRules_zpsacd00f35.jpg

[Updated on: Tue, 22 January 2013 21:42]

      
Almilcar
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Tue, 22 January 2013 16:18
50th wrote on Tue, 22 January 2013 15:26

Why did they change the air power card on page 11 of the Equipment Pack rulebook? I can understand the change of air superiority with time. That's why in my own air rules I gave air superiority to the Axis from '39 to '43, and to the Allies after that. But it doesn't make sense to always have it equal as the new rule on page 11 states. Since they have late war rules on special weapons assets (SWA's), why not late war rules on air power? I think this is how this should be handled instead of just making it equal.




Interesting point of view 50th. I think you may be right, since the Late War concept is already introduced in the game.
      
JFKoski
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Tue, 22 January 2013 17:38
I don't have Equipment pack, so this thread came as a surprise to me. I'd missed the box on page 11 of the pdf that says,
Quote:

Important Note: Unless written otherwise, air rules
are not in effect. If present in your deck, Air Sortie
cards should be removed and set aside. They will not
be used. In addition, unless stated otherwise, when
playing an Air Power card in any of the scenarios that follow, roll only
1 die against each unit, regardless of which sides you are playing
from, even you are the Allies.


Emphasis mine.

I don't suppose the Equipment Pack comes with an Air Power card that reads 1d for each side? That could come in handy for games with Winter Weather, too, since both sides roll 1d. (The BT Air Power says 2d for each side, and I've said elsewhere we could use a reverse Air Power, 2d Axis and 1d Allies for those Crete sceanarios with Air Superiority.)
      
50th
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Tue, 22 January 2013 21:21
No, the EP did not come with a new air power card, or a new action card explaining the new AP rule.

      
Sgt Storm
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Tue, 22 January 2013 22:56
My understanding of the rule was it applied to the scenarios in the Equipment Pack...and only there unless stated otherwise.

Anyway, I always play with equal die rolls regardless of what the rules say. Just a preference that we house rule regularly. I find it way too powerful with 2 die otherwise.
      
50th
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Wed, 23 January 2013 13:24
Sgt Storm wrote on Tue, 22 January 2013 15:56

My understanding of the rule was it applied to the scenarios in the Equipment Pack...and only there unless stated otherwise.




Then why did they put it into the rulebook and not the scenario book?

      
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Wed, 23 January 2013 14:05
Sgt Storm wrote on Tue, 22 January 2013 16:56

My understanding of the rule was it applied to the scenarios in the Equipment Pack...and only there unless stated otherwise.

Anyway, I always play with equal die rolls regardless of what the rules say. Just a preference that we house rule regularly. I find it way too powerful with 2 die otherwise.



I would question the application of that "rule" as several EE scenarios occur in 1944.

Also, as no scenarios really follow that rules section (as pointed out above-it is in the rule book(which has no scenarios), not the scenario book).

Then there is the bonus EE scenarios. Fortunately, all but one have special rules to cover Air Power.
      
Sgt Storm
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Wed, 23 January 2013 20:00
50th wrote on Wed, 23 January 2013 07:24

Sgt Storm wrote on Tue, 22 January 2013 15:56

My understanding of the rule was it applied to the scenarios in the Equipment Pack...and only there unless stated otherwise.




Then why did they put it into the rulebook and not the scenario book?




The rule book is the equipment pack rule book, is it not? Hence it applies to the equipment pack scenarios. There is already an established rule for Air Power in standard/overlord scenarios in other expansions, as printed on the card, and to my knowledge that has not been overridden anywhere else (except in individual scenarios and where noted above).

Most folks, like you, look at these rules from a historical perspective. I personally care more about balance of play and have always hated that Air Power was the only card that was unbalanced. I hope this is a move towards balancing the cards regardless of historical accuracy, but that's just my personal wish, and contrary to common sentiment.

[Updated on: Wed, 23 January 2013 20:06]

      
50th
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Wed, 23 January 2013 23:00
[quote title=Sgt Storm wrote on Wed, 23 January 2013 13:00]
50th wrote on Wed, 23 January 2013 07:24

Sgt Storm wrote on Tue, 22 January 2013 15:56

My understanding of the rule was it applied to the scenarios in the Equipment Pack...and only there unless stated otherwise.


The rule book is the equipment pack rule book, is it not? Hence it applies to the equipment pack scenarios


But to apply that logic would imply that those rules in the terrain pack rulebook only apply to the terrain pack, or that the rules in Winter Wars for SWA's would only apply to WW, ect. SWA rules apply in whatever scenario uses SWA's, blowing up bridges rules apply in whatever scenario uses this rule, but every game uses air power (unless using the air pack).
      
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Thu, 24 January 2013 02:55
[quote title=50th wrote on Wed, 23 January 2013 17:00]
Sgt Storm wrote on Wed, 23 January 2013 13:00

50th wrote on Wed, 23 January 2013 07:24

Sgt Storm wrote on Tue, 22 January 2013 15:56

My understanding of the rule was it applied to the scenarios in the Equipment Pack...and only there unless stated otherwise.


The rule book is the equipment pack rule book, is it not? Hence it applies to the equipment pack scenarios


But to apply that logic would imply that those rules in the terrain pack rulebook only apply to the terrain pack, or that the rules in Winter Wars for SWA's would only apply to WW, ect. SWA rules apply in whatever scenario uses SWA's, blowing up bridges rules apply in whatever scenario uses this rule, but every game uses air power (unless using the air pack).


I was not trying to apply logic to something that is beyond logic's ability to explain. The note in the EP rules (pg 11) that was referenced above is written in a manner that, upon reading, implies it applies only to the scenarios. At least that was my impression when first reading. The fact it is in a box, on the last page, and the way it is worded all points to it being a note about how to play the EP scenarios. Examples of this scenario-leaning phraseology:

"Unless written otherwise, air rules are not in effect." - worded just like a special scenario rule

They will not be used" - sounds like preparatory info for the scenarios to come, particularly use of "will"

"in any of the scenarios that follows" - pretty much seals it for me

Nothing about this note makes me think this is an override of the original rule. Here's the note again for reference:

Quote:

Important Note: Unless written otherwise, air rules
are not in effect. If present in your deck, Air Sortie
cards should be removed and set aside. They will not
be used. In addition, unless stated otherwise, when
playing an Air Power card in any of the scenarios that follow, roll only 1 die against each unit, regardless of which sides you are playing from, even you are the Allies.


But ultimately I guess we wait and see, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it nor would I alter how Air Power is played in any scenarios outside of EP.
      
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Thu, 24 January 2013 03:08
I think Sgt Storm has a pretty solid case. The line that seals it for me (and is actually quite clear on the matter) is,

"In addition, unless stated otherwise, when playing an Air Power card in any of the scenarios that follow, roll only 1 die against each unit, regardless of which sides you are playing from, even you are the Allies."

It's pretty clear this note is not a general rule to be applied to the overall game. It's talking about the Equipment Pack. If it was talking about all future scenarios, I think it would say so. Smile But that's just my take on it and not official. Cool
      
Almilcar
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Thu, 24 January 2013 07:58
rasmussen81 wrote on Thu, 24 January 2013 03:08

I think Sgt Storm has a pretty solid case. The line that seals it for me (and is actually quite clear on the matter) is,

"In addition, unless stated otherwise, when playing an Air Power card in any of the scenarios that follow, roll only 1 die against each unit, regardless of which sides you are playing from, even you are the Allies."

It's pretty clear this note is not a general rule to be applied to the overall game. It's talking about the Equipment Pack. If it was talking about all future scenarios, I think it would say so. Smile But that's just my take on it and not official. Cool


Jesse, even though you are right it's a bit confusing having rules for one expansion that don't apply in others in the same way.

Does your statement mean that any scenario from now on regardless its historical date have to apply this rule and not the former?

I think, and you may concur, that the need of a consolidated Air Rule/Air Power rule is not only necessary but also paramount.

As somebody said earlier, why not a general "Late War Air Rule" and its summary card to be used for the whole game?

"Keep it Stupid Simple, if feasible"

[Updated on: Thu, 24 January 2013 13:44]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Thu, 24 January 2013 08:48
Almilcar wrote on Thu, 24 January 2013 10:58

rasmussen81 wrote on Thu, 24 January 2013 03:08

I think Sgt Storm has a pretty solid case. The line that seals it for me (and is actually quite clear on the matter) is,

"In addition, unless stated otherwise, when playing an Air Power card in any of the scenarios that follow, roll only 1 die against each unit, regardless of which sides you are playing from, even you are the Allies."

It's pretty clear this note is not a general rule to be applied to the overall game. It's talking about the Equipment Pack. If it was talking about all future scenarios, I think it would say so. Smile But that's just my take on it and not official. Cool


Jesse, even though you are right it's a bit confusing having rules for one expansion that don't apply in others in the same way.

Does your statement mean that any scenario from now on regardless its historical date have to apply this rule and no the former?

I think, and you may concur, that the need of a consolidated Air Rule/Air Power rule is not only necessary but paramount.

As somebody said earlier, why not a general "Late War Air Rule" and its summary card to be used for the whole game?

"Keep it Stupid Simple, if feasible"


You bring up a good question, and I'm afraid I don't have any answer for you. Very Happy
      
Almilcar
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Thu, 24 January 2013 13:41
rasmussen81 wrote on Thu, 24 January 2013 08:48

You bring up a good question, and I'm afraid I don't have any answer for you. Very Happy



Which of both?

A) Does your statement mean that any scenario from now on regardless its historical date have to apply this rule and not the former?

B) Why not a general "Late War Air Rule" and its summary card to be used for the whole game?

Cheers



[Updated on: Thu, 24 January 2013 13:42]

      
50th
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Thu, 24 January 2013 16:29
I hope I didn't upset anyone, I now wonder if this rule applies to the bonus scenario's too, or what. And why is this in the rulebook and not the scenario book if it only applies to the scenarios in the EP? Why not a late war rule? In my own air rules, I have it!

      
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Thu, 24 January 2013 17:15
50th wrote on Thu, 24 January 2013 10:29

I hope I didn't upset anyone, I now wonder if this rule applies to the bonus scenario's too, or what. And why is this in the rulebook and not the scenario book if it only applies to the scenarios in the EP? Why not a late war rule? In my own air rules, I have it!




It's all good! I like 50th's air power card idea. I also like the Blitz rules for early war Axis air dominance.

It seems as if there is a trend away from the air rules, which makes sence when the air pack seems to be out of production.

That is one expansion that I just couldn't bring myself to buy more than one. The planes would have been nice, but the extra copies of the scenario book, possibly the duplicate terrain tiles (I don't think extras of those tiles would have come in especially handy anywhere, but can one ever really have too many terrain tiles?Smile) and the extra card decks seemed to me to be too much wasted material to buy multiples. One copy, definately worth/essential buying!Smile
      
Almilcar
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Thu, 24 January 2013 19:38
50th wrote on Thu, 24 January 2013 16:29

I hope I didn't upset anyone, I now wonder if this rule applies to the bonus scenario's too, or what. And why is this in the rulebook and not the scenario book if it only applies to the scenarios in the EP? Why not a late war rule? In my own air rules, I have it!




I'm sure you didn't. You brought up something that is on the air, awaiting to be resolved. Hopefully, once and for all.

It would be cool to have a single, simple Air Rule. I love your idea of Early War & Late War, to reflect the hegemony of both sides depending on the moment of the war.

Cheers
      
JFKoski
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Thu, 24 January 2013 20:20
I'd like cards for 4 situations:
Axis 1, Allies 1, Winter Weather & Equipment Pack
Axis 2, Allies 1, Crete (Air Superiority)
Axis 1, Allies 2, standard
Axis 2, Allies 2, BT

If you want to put them by date, that sounds good too.
      
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Thu, 24 January 2013 20:47
JFKoski wrote on Thu, 24 January 2013 20:20

I'd like cards for 4 situations:
Axis 1, Allies 1, Winter Weather & Equipment Pack
Axis 2, Allies 1, Crete (Air Superiority)
Axis 1, Allies 2, standard
Axis 2, Allies 2, BT

If you want to put them by date, that sounds good too.


I like 50th's idea because it's simple: 1 for early and another for late war, thus both sides can have their air superiority reflected.

For other situations, as those you have mentioned, it could be included in the Special Rules, modifying the general air rule.

That is what I would set, but that is something Richard has to do.

Regards
      
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Thu, 24 January 2013 23:41
I looked over the EE scenarios and also the bonus EE scenarios(now I am making an assumption here that they also fall under that special EE rule)

Of the 16 EE scenarios:

Sc # 04 - the Allies cannot use AIR POWER
Sc # 10 - AIR POWER must be used as BARRAGE
Sc # 13 - AIR POWER must be used as ARTY BOMBARD
Sc # 16 - AIR POWER must be used as BARRAGE

So that leaves 12 scenarios.

One (Sc # 14) has a note to the effect that the allies roll 2d when they play AIR POWER. The rest have no notes so I would say they default to the 1d per side rule.

Of the 8 EE bonus scenarios:

Sc # 03 - AIR POWER must be usec as BARRAGE

Of the 7 left:

Sc # 01 & 02 - Germans roll 2d / Allies roll 1d
Sc #04,05,07 & 08 -- both sides roll 1d. What is strange here is the inclusion of this note when it should not be needed (as the default rule would be 1d per side anyway.)
Sc # 06 - no notes


      
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Fri, 25 January 2013 07:57
tank commander wrote on Thu, 24 January 2013 23:41

I looked over the EE scenarios and also the bonus EE scenarios(now I am making an assumption here that they also fall under that special EE rule)

Of the 16 EE scenarios:

Sc # 04 - the Allies cannot use AIR POWER
Sc # 10 - AIR POWER must be used as BARRAGE
Sc # 13 - AIR POWER must be used as ARTY BOMBARD
Sc # 16 - AIR POWER must be used as BARRAGE

So that leaves 12 scenarios.

One (Sc # 14) has a note to the effect that the allies roll 2d when they play AIR POWER. The rest have no notes so I would say they default to the 1d per side rule.

Of the 8 EE bonus scenarios:

Sc # 03 - AIR POWER must be usec as BARRAGE

Of the 7 left:

Sc # 01 & 02 - Germans roll 2d / Allies roll 1d
Sc #04,05,07 & 08 -- both sides roll 1d. What is strange here is the inclusion of this note when it should not be needed (as the default rule would be 1d per side anyway.)
Sc # 06 - no notes



This reinforces the idea of having a simple & general rule for Early and Late War.


[Updated on: Fri, 25 January 2013 07:58]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Fri, 25 January 2013 14:40
Almilcar wrote on Fri, 25 January 2013 10:57

tank commander wrote on Thu, 24 January 2013 23:41

I looked over the EE scenarios and also the bonus EE scenarios(now I am making an assumption here that they also fall under that special EE rule)

Of the 16 EE scenarios:

Sc # 04 - the Allies cannot use AIR POWER
Sc # 10 - AIR POWER must be used as BARRAGE
Sc # 13 - AIR POWER must be used as ARTY BOMBARD
Sc # 16 - AIR POWER must be used as BARRAGE

So that leaves 12 scenarios.

One (Sc # 14) has a note to the effect that the allies roll 2d when they play AIR POWER. The rest have no notes so I would say they default to the 1d per side rule.

Of the 8 EE bonus scenarios:

Sc # 03 - AIR POWER must be usec as BARRAGE

Of the 7 left:

Sc # 01 & 02 - Germans roll 2d / Allies roll 1d
Sc #04,05,07 & 08 -- both sides roll 1d. What is strange here is the inclusion of this note when it should not be needed (as the default rule would be 1d per side anyway.)
Sc # 06 - no notes



This reinforces the idea of having a simple & general rule for Early and Late War.


If you like that idea, you can always play with it, but I wouldn't expect it to become Official. Even if this situation is a bit unclear, it's clearly not the "Late War" option that 50th uses. It's a good idea, but it's just another one of 50th great House Rules. Smile
      
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Fri, 25 January 2013 16:41
rasmussen81 wrote on Fri, 25 January 2013 07:40


If you like that idea, you can always play with it, but I wouldn't expect it to become Official. Even if this situation is a bit unclear, it's clearly not the "Late War" option that 50th uses. It's a good idea, but it's just another one of 50th great House Rules. Smile


Thanks, Embarassed

      
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Fri, 25 January 2013 17:19
50th wrote on Fri, 25 January 2013 19:41

rasmussen81 wrote on Fri, 25 January 2013 07:40


If you like that idea, you can always play with it, but I wouldn't expect it to become Official. Even if this situation is a bit unclear, it's clearly not the "Late War" option that 50th uses. It's a good idea, but it's just another one of 50th great House Rules. Smile


Thanks, Embarassed




No problem. You have some great house rules! Very Happy

I don't play with House Rules, but if I did your User Page would be the first place I would visit. Smile
      
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Fri, 25 January 2013 19:36
50th,

do you have any "general" house rule for the Air Power issue?

Cheers
      
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Fri, 25 January 2013 19:53
Almilcar wrote on Fri, 25 January 2013 22:36

50th,

do you have any "general" house rule for the Air Power issue?

Cheers


Go to his User Page; he has a whole document of his own Air Rules that you could use. Cool
      
50th
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Sat, 26 January 2013 13:40
Almilcar wrote on Fri, 25 January 2013 12:36

50th,

do you have any "general" house rule for the Air Power issue?

Cheers


I use my own air rules, but one thing I've been thinking about is this. Since the Allies had air superiority during the later war, wouldn't it be more logical for them to roll 2 dice then? I think maybe this thing is backwards. Since the Axis had air superiority early in the war, maybe they should roll two dice (as per my air rules)in early war scenarios. It's just a thought, of course you can house rule it any way you want to when you play. (That's when it becomes a house rule). I like house rules, I think that as long as all players agree, it can be fun, and can make a scenario a little more historical sometimes (depending on the rule).

By the way, I'm going over my rules and will finish a new version soon!
      
50th
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Mon, 28 October 2013 05:39
In reference to the air power card, I do believe that a ruling that there be an early war reading on the card, and a later war reading on the card would reflect the changing of air superiority during the war. The difference would be small, but that it would change at some point. And maybe the change shouldn't be an across the board all theaters change. Remember that in Russia, the Germans were losing more and more airplanes as the Russians were gaining them through their own manufacturing and the Lend-Lease aircraft coming from America and Great Brittan.
      
JFKoski
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Mon, 28 October 2013 16:19
I'd forgotten this rule when I started playing with Italian High Command this Summer in North African and East African scenarios.

I decided to start playing these scenarios with what I call "Equipment Pack Rules" in August.

-Italian High Command (start w/6 cards, lose unit: lose card),
-French Army (Stay-in-Place Attack),
-Early War Machine Guns (SWAs #8 replaces #7), and
-1d Allied Air Power.

I think we discussed in another thread that when Eastern Front came out they looked for a way to balance the 2d Allied Air Power and went with Blitz. Then they came out with the Air Pack which reduced Strafing to 1d each (and removed Blitz from some Eastern Front scenarios). After that was Winter Wars with "Winter Weather - Actions 26" which has 1d Air Power.

I've gotten used to 1d Air Power. I like it and play it more as Axis since I'm no longer afraid of Counter-Attack. It seems appropriate in these 1940-1942 scenarios. There was one time where I would have liked to use it to roll 2d against one 2-fig unit on the baseline.

It was a bit of a shock to see 2d Allied Air Power again in a tournament game (I scored 5 tank hits on 6 dice). Also, I figured that the Allies dominated the skies after Sicily, so we used 2d for a December 1943 scenario in Italy.

It's too bad RBorg didn't just say, "From now on, only scenarios in 1944 Western Europe get the 2d Allied Air Power, here's a 1d Air Power card to substitute for other scenarios."

[Updated on: Mon, 28 October 2013 19:09]

      
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Mon, 28 October 2013 18:15
Sgt Storm wrote on Tue, 22 January 2013 21:56

Anyway, I always play with equal die rolls regardless of what the rules say. I find it way too powerful with 2 die otherwise.


But wasn't air superiority the deciding factor in many campaigns (e.g. Blitzkrieg and Normandy) so it should be powerful?

Unless specifically stated in a scenario, we house rule (Western and Eastern Fronts):

1939 - end of 1941 = 1d Allies, 2d Axis
1942 - end of 1943 = 1d Allies, 1d Axis
1944 - 1945 = 2d Allies, 1d Axis

[Updated on: Mon, 28 October 2013 18:17]

      
Almilcar
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Mon, 28 October 2013 21:12
Hopefully we will get a consolidated rule for all the fronts, all the periods.
      
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Mon, 28 October 2013 22:23
Almilcar wrote on Tue, 29 October 2013 00:12

Hopefully we will get a consolidated rule for all the fronts, all the periods.


Who are you hoping to get this from?
      
Sgt Storm
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Mon, 28 October 2013 23:34
Achtung Panzer wrote on Mon, 28 October 2013 13:15

Sgt Storm wrote on Tue, 22 January 2013 21:56

Anyway, I always play with equal die rolls regardless of what the rules say. I find it way too powerful with 2 die otherwise.


But wasn't air superiority the deciding factor in many campaigns (e.g. Blitzkrieg and Normandy) so it should be powerful?

Unless specifically stated in a scenario, we house rule (Western and Eastern Fronts):

1939 - end of 1941 = 1d Allies, 2d Axis
1942 - end of 1943 = 1d Allies, 1d Axis
1944 - 1945 = 2d Allies, 1d Axis



That's a good way to handle it.

I use equal die rolls because:
1) I normally only play a single side in a game and desire balance between sides. Often I play against my son and he likes German side. I feel guilty if I use Air Power and use 2 dice. Too much of a walk in the park.
2) Air Power is the only unbalanced card and too much of a luck factor when drawing it. I'd rather win by skill than luck and evening out this card is one way to remove a small part of the luck element.
3) I don't think this card adds any realism to the game, as the game is already pretty unrealistic, by that I mean highly abstract and air power is poorly represented in the game anyway

I think the whole air rules/air power aspect of WWII is difficult to handle in this type of game and could probably have been better implemented.

These are my opinions of course and expect most folks to disagree. But in reality I don't think worrying about the Air Power card and whether DOW will issue corrective cards or explanations is worth any effort.
      
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Tue, 29 October 2013 09:06
Actually that's a really good point. And in reflection, the Blitz and Air Superiority rules provide the air cover benefit to one side.

I was mostly thinking of the 2 x dice as being used as battlefield tactical bombing e.g. Stukas to attack armour but often strategic bombing of strong points had little effect. So perhaps 2 dice is too powerful.

I think I may adopt the 1 die for both sides after all.

Great debate and an example of this Forum at its best. Wink
      
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Tue, 29 October 2013 19:54
rasmussen81 wrote on Mon, 28 October 2013 22:23

Almilcar wrote on Tue, 29 October 2013 00:12

Hopefully we will get a consolidated rule for all the fronts, all the periods.


Who are you hoping to get this from?


Hehe, Jesse, always have a prompt-question as an answer for me... Maybe I ask many senseless questions....

Well, I was thinking of someone who have created the game or someone from DoW. That is to say, an official wording.

In the meanwhile we will adopt one of those house rules.

Regards
      
tank commander
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Wed, 30 October 2013 06:25
My take on Air Power.

The worse case scenario is playing the Axis and being the second player when the Allies play Air Power on their first turn.

You did not get a chance to even move and you lose 8 figs (and perhaps even a unit if an arty is wiped out). I have been there and that is not fun at all. It certainly makes winning that type of scenario a lot more difficult.

I have been on both ends of that situation. I have won as the Germans in Ponyri after my left flank armor was blasted by Air Power and have lost as the Russians in the same scenario after bombing the c___ out of the panzers. I have also seen total whiffs with AP. It is sort of like TFH in this regard and you never know how well you shall do with it.

If you get blasted by Air Power later in a game because you did not spread out your units then you get what you deserve Laughing

However, is it the most unbalancing card play? How about Armor Assault where up to 32 (or even 36 dice if the Marines are involved) can be rolled in one turn? How about BEL which can net up to 3 medals in one turn like in Breakout to Lisyanka? How about Inf Assault with the several Japanese full strength units or even Close Assault with the same Shocked How about a 6 order TFH?

There are several card plays that can be devastating depending on the scenario and special rules involved.

Overall I think the 2d Air Power is just another beastie that can be managed with good card play. Sometimes you may not have enough turns and / or cards to break up groupings of his units and get them off the baseline before Air Power hits. But usually you can take some of the sting out of that card.

      
Sgt Storm
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Wed, 30 October 2013 17:54
Quote:

However, is it the most unbalancing card play?


I should have been more specific, but what I meant is it is the only card that provides more capabilities to one faction than the other, all other considerations aside. In that sense the card itself is inherently unbalanced.

Sure there are special rules for Troops and units, and there are situations where one side gets a disadvantage to others, but these are special rules not baked into the cards themselves. The AP card is the only card that gives more dice to one side than another, period, without any other qualifications.

That's why I think its not a great implementation. That is, it might be better to have special rules or something else to determine any unbalancing effects (e.g., Blitz rules) with the card merely conferring an order to use Air Power. (I probably still wouldn't like it if it favored one side or another, but on a scenario-to-scenario basis, as special rules to the scenario, I might not mind too much.)

[Updated on: Wed, 30 October 2013 17:56]

      
Rork
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Wed, 13 November 2013 20:09
If playing with the Air Power house rule for Western and Eastern Fronts scenarios:
1939 - end of 1941 = 1d Allies, 2d Axis
1942 - end of 1943 = 1d Allies, 1d Axis
1944 - 1945 = 2d Allies, 1d Axis
which I like a lot, does it also apply to the strafing action?

And are there any reasons why this shouldn't also cover the Pacific scenarios?
      
Achtung Panzer
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Wed, 13 November 2013 20:48
Rork wrote on Wed, 13 November 2013 19:09

If playing with the Air Power house rule for Western and Eastern Fronts scenarios:
1939 - end of 1941 = 1d Allies, 2d Axis
1942 - end of 1943 = 1d Allies, 1d Axis
1944 - 1945 = 2d Allies, 1d Axis
which I like a lot, does it also apply to the strafing action?

And are there any reasons why this shouldn't also cover the Pacific scenarios?


This was my House Rule suggestion. It can apply to the Pacific theatre with perhaps some movement in dates? I'm not sure when, where or if, the Allies gained complete air superiority in the various land campaigns, including Burma, which the extra die would represent.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Air Power in Equipment Pack Wed, 13 November 2013 21:39
Achtung Panzer wrote on Wed, 13 November 2013 23:48

Rork wrote on Wed, 13 November 2013 19:09

If playing with the Air Power house rule for Western and Eastern Fronts scenarios:
1939 - end of 1941 = 1d Allies, 2d Axis
1942 - end of 1943 = 1d Allies, 1d Axis
1944 - 1945 = 2d Allies, 1d Axis
which I like a lot, does it also apply to the strafing action?

And are there any reasons why this shouldn't also cover the Pacific scenarios?


This was my House Rule suggestion. It can apply to the Pacific theatre with perhaps some movement in dates? I'm not sure when, where or if, the Allies gained complete air superiority in the various land campaigns, including Burma, which the extra die would represent.


Don't forget to take into account how effective the Air Power was. By giving the Japanese or Americans 2 dice, you're indicating that Air Power were effective and dangerous to the other side. With the Pacific Theater, planes might not have been as effective (and therefore never get 2 dice) because the Japanese troops were so hidden in caves that planes couldn't do too much.
      
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