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tank commander
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Re:opinions on air pack? Mon, 12 March 2012 02:25
Sheridan wrote on Sun, 11 March 2012 18:18

However, each time i had my go, i would move units adjacent to the plane to see if i could get a medal on the next air check roll. This did happen and i got some "cheap medals" during the campaign by doing that.


A clever opponent can avoid high ACs and these are often difficult to get any way. Then if you try and "surround" a plane with your units, a German AS - AP or Recon card can order the plane with no fear of an AC. The plane can then strafe those surrounding units with no problem. Of course, even if you do roll for an AC you still have to roll at least one grenade - I do not know how "cheap" that type of medal is in the end.
      
Aussie_Digger
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Re:opinions on air pack? Mon, 12 March 2012 02:57
In the end I think there are strenghts and weaknesses for both sides of the argument it just depends how effective you are at expoliting air rules or no air rules. And the situation you are in at the time.
      
Aussie_Digger
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Re:opinions on air pack? Mon, 12 March 2012 03:26
I can recall a scenario where not having air rules in effect was a big part in the germans winning. (as the air attacks and german advance would not have been as effective if they were)
It was an overloard game "sword of stalingrad"
My right flank general was having a tough time advancing, until I ended up drawing some recon 1's for his section, i played them as air power cards which ended up weakening the russian defences and allowed the german adavnce to be more effective.

We won by 2 medals but i think if we had used air rules it would have come right down to the wire.

As each time recon1 was ordered I was a able to cover 4 to 3 units with the attacks (if air rule were in place in this scenario I would have been only ab;e to cover 2 units at the most in each attack) Also it would not have been in our interest to leave the plane on the board as the airchecks would have been huge also the right general needed all his orders to advance as many troops forward.

So if we had air rules in this one we would have left more defencive units intaced and less units would have been ordered forward, as my general would most probably used orders to try and soften up the units more (also leaving more oppertunities for the enmy to atempt to take down the aircraft and not getting the units forwarded we needed to win)

In this case it proved that the air rules not being used was more powerful, even the russian cic was wishing they were as he was getting very frustrated with the attacks.
      
50th
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Re:opinions on air pack? Mon, 12 March 2012 16:04
Not to down anybody who don't play with house rules, because I understand that. But I have never played with the "official" air pack rules because I just couldn't see an aircraft moving only one more space than an armor unit when the aircraft is moving at around 200 mph and the armor unit is probably moving around 24 mph. I also like my rules ability to damage roads, railroads, and bridges, which is what real ground interdiction did, and the ability to destroy units in bunkers while having the damage reduced by the bunker itself. My rules does away with the air checks, another point of the "official" system I could not use. Why would a pilot crash because he is flying over a minefield? I know the air check system is a representation of units on the ground firing back, but why not just give units on the ground the ability to fire back? I did that with anti-air artillery.

I believe that with the speed of the aircraft flying at that time, and although I know that the Memoir 44 system uses an abstract scale, but I believe that the air unit could fly over the board and be gone by the time the armor unit moves it's full movement. That's why, I made my rules so that the air figure is only on the board when attacking or when landed on an airstrip or aircraft carrier. Please, if you like the idea of using air to ground attacks, try my rules. Maybe one day, I'll actually try the "official" rules (though I doubt it).

      
yangtze
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Re:opinions on air pack? Mon, 12 March 2012 20:48
Hi all! Smile

At the risk of boring you silly (I've already said it on BGG), the scenario of mine that I'm most fond of is the Rescue of Mussolini from the Air Aces Campaign in CB2. The thing with this scenario is that you don't have to play it as part of the campaign. It's a quick and easy standalone scenario. Victory? Simple: rescue Mussolini! Or stop him being rescued...

I'm not saying it's a great scenario; that's for you to decide. What I am saying is that everyone I've played it with has had a blast and, whilst it's not your typical air scenario, before you condemn the air rules give it a try.

I'd be very interested in any feedback Rolling Eyes
      
Sgt Storm
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Re:opinions on air pack? Mon, 12 March 2012 20:59
Personally I think the air rules are just fine - meaning they are fun and pretty easy to understand. However, whenever I play a scenario where air rules are optional, I allow both sides to play, with the exact same air advantage (except for the planes), in order to maintain scenario "balance". That means, the same number of Air Sorties to start etc. where reasonable.

I don't much care whether one side or the other historically had air superiority. That's just me, though. I much prefer balance to historical accuracy.
      
Aussie_Digger
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Re:opinions on air pack? Tue, 13 March 2012 00:08
Sgt Storm wrote on Tue, 13 March 2012 05:29

Personally I think the air rules are just fine - meaning they are fun and pretty easy to understand. However, whenever I play a scenario where air rules are optional, I allow both sides to play, with the exact same air advantage (except for the planes), in order to maintain scenario "balance". That means, the same number of Air Sorties to start etc. where reasonable.

I don't much care whether one side or the other historically had air superiority. That's just me, though. I much prefer balance to historical accuracy.



I understand what you are saying but in some scenarios iv seen one side has had a slight advantage on the ground but then the other side has had all the air sortie cards, which would help balance it back.
      
Sheridan
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Re:opinions on air pack? Tue, 13 March 2012 14:50
tank commander wrote on Sun, 11 March 2012 21:25

Sheridan wrote on Sun, 11 March 2012 18:18

However, each time i had my go, i would move units adjacent to the plane to see if i could get a medal on the next air check roll. This did happen and i got some "cheap medals" during the campaign by doing that.


A clever opponent can avoid high ACs and these are often difficult to get any way. Then if you try and "surround" a plane with your units, a German AS - AP or Recon card can order the plane with no fear of an AC. The plane can then strafe those surrounding units with no problem. Of course, even if you do roll for an AC you still have to roll at least one grenade - I do not know how "cheap" that type of medal is in the end.


I agree with this, but i was only referring to my experiences in the Yellow Plan campaign only, which i very recently played for the first time with the air pack. Surrounding a plane forced the Axis player to play an air sortie or equivalent if they didn't want an AC roll - reducing future chances of getting a new plane on the board as i knew i had drawn and used/discarded recon 1, air power and sortie cards previously. If they didn't want to use a card, then they let the plane leave the board - so my artillery on the baseline hex would be safe for a bit longer (bar a barrage card attack of course). Of course you have to roll a grenade to get the medal, but it is the only time you can get a medal with a single dice role on a unit.

I'm not really sure how plane strategy will work with all the other campaigns, as the Yellow Plan is the first full grand campaign we used with the air pack. However, i think that surrounding a plane is a viable tactic, but only at the right time.
      
JFKoski
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Re:opinions on air pack? Tue, 13 March 2012 18:32
CarriCommander wrote on Mon, 26 July 2010 15:38

What do people generally think of the air pack? I have the expansion but haven't gotten around to playing it yet.



I like the reference cards and the scenarios that use terrain pack tiles.

I don't care for the Air Rules. They do help some scenarios that are really unbalanced without them. I'd prefer to play better-designed scenarios, instead.
      
Sgt Storm
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Re:opinions on air pack? Tue, 13 March 2012 21:48
Aussie_Digger wrote on Mon, 12 March 2012 19:08

Sgt Storm wrote on Tue, 13 March 2012 05:29

Personally I think the air rules are just fine - meaning they are fun and pretty easy to understand. However, whenever I play a scenario where air rules are optional, I allow both sides to play, with the exact same air advantage (except for the planes), in order to maintain scenario "balance". That means, the same number of Air Sorties to start etc. where reasonable.

I don't much care whether one side or the other historically had air superiority. That's just me, though. I much prefer balance to historical accuracy.



I understand what you are saying but in some scenarios iv seen one side has had a slight advantage on the ground but then the other side has had all the air sortie cards, which would help balance it back.


Well, I am assuming the scenario is balanced to start with, if it is an official scenario (which is not always the case). So, when air rules are required, I play as written, and when optional, then giving balanced additional rules to each side (e.g., equal amounts of air sorties to start) to a presumably balanced scenario to start with, should keep roughly the same balance.

[Updated on: Tue, 13 March 2012 21:49]

      
Antoi
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  Re:opinions on air pack? Thu, 19 April 2012 10:45
I Finaly got myself an air pack last week.
It took a few days to fly from Austria to Holland but it arrived savely.

I sure like the expansion Very Happy
As said before, it improves the game without chancing it to much.
And the nicely painted airplanes are great to look at Razz

I wonder if there is going to be some sort of Air pack 2 expansion. I know it is out of print (took me long enough to get one) but in the new campaign book we see a new bomber and some new rules.....
      
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Re:opinions on air pack? Thu, 19 April 2012 12:48
Antoi wrote on Thu, 19 April 2012 12:45

I Finaly got myself an air pack last week.
It took a few days to fly from Austria to Holland but it arrived savely.

I sure like the expansion Very Happy
As said before, it improves the game without chancing it to much.
And the nicely painted airplanes are great to look at Razz

I wonder if there is going to be some sort of Air pack 2 expansion. I know it is out of print (took me long enough to get one) but in the new campaign book we see a new bomber and some new rules.....


It's entirely possible that we'll see an Air Pack 2 expansion (I'm always amazed with the expansions we see for Memoir '44) but I wouldn't look at the Campaign Book 2 Scenario as a clue that we might see something...

DoW included the Air Aces Campaign as a 'gift' to players who own the Air Pack and because they had room for it. I think it's a wonderful thing for people who own the Air Pack already, but they have made it clear that they have no plans to reprint the Air Pack.

But I'm with you! I would love to see an Air Pack 2 expansion some day. I really enjoy the addition of the Air Rules! Cool
      
Volkscamper
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Re:opinions on air pack? Mon, 16 July 2012 21:30
Got the airpack when it first was published, and was glad to get the much needed winter hill tiles, and the scenario book.

Also like the painted models, and the plastic stands. Nice scale for the planes,also. Fits nicely in relation to other pieces. Missing the famed Stuka dive bomber however.

Not that thrilled with the air rules, and prefer just simply having plane fly on board, from owning players edge, and move to attack any single enemy unit on the board, making a bomb attack rolling 3 dice, or strafe attack, against any 3 units in row, connected, rolling one die/unit. After the attack, the plane then flys off board, or flys to land on an airfield on board, where it could be used again next turn if using recon card, or if another air power/sortie card drawn.

No air checks. Instead, when the plane moves to a hex adjacent to an enemy unit (to bomb) or to the 1st unit of 3 (strafe), the unit targeted may roll one die as a premptive AA attack, and if rolling a grenade, the plane is shot down before it can execute attack.

Certain special AA units like 88 flak gun battery, could roll 2 die against a plane if the plane attacks a friendly unit within 3 hexes of the 88 flak gun unit.




      
JJAZ
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Re:opinions on air pack? Tue, 17 July 2012 16:33
tank commander wrote on Mon, 12 March 2012 02:25

Sheridan wrote on Sun, 11 March 2012 18:18

However, each time i had my go, i would move units adjacent to the plane to see if i could get a medal on the next air check roll. This did happen and i got some "cheap medals" during the campaign by doing that.


A clever opponent can avoid high ACs and these are often difficult to get any way. Then if you try and "surround" a plane with your units, a German AS - AP or Recon card can order the plane with no fear of an AC. The plane can then strafe those surrounding units with no problem. Of course, even if you do roll for an AC you still have to roll at least one grenade - I do not know how "cheap" that type of medal is in the end.


1 thing i can add maybe is that also the figure count is only 1 to your opponent if he gets the plane down!
So on tie breakers that gives you maybe the edge.
      
GI John
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Re:opinions on air pack? Wed, 21 November 2012 02:38
There is a learning curve with the Air Pack. I had to read the rules 4 or 5 times before I got comfortable enough to play a game. I was once very critical of the Air Pack. But, I was DEAD WRONG.

The Air Pack completes the M44 System and M44 is more enjoyable to play with the Air Rules than without.
      
Quit2
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Re:opinions on air pack? Wed, 21 November 2012 09:44
I agree.

To my feeling, alot of players don't make optimal use of the planes and therefor think the rules are bad.

When you have 8 infantry units and just one tank in a scenario, you don't just send the tank foreward to attack the enemy without any support. It would get surrounded and attacked with the retreat path blocked. However, if you attack with your infantry, the tank can come rolling in when the opponent has only 1 and 2 fig units in the open so that the thank gets most use out of the armor overrun.

The same goes for the airplane. If you send it in alone agains the enemy, it might take out a few figs but will quickly get surrounded, and destroyed. However, if you send in a plane during a well organised attack, it can be used to take out a few one fig units, it can help assault a fortified position, prevent units to move (either by blocking the path or by ground interdiction), ...

The air pack is an expansion of Memoir 44. When you use it, you still play memoir 44 with the occasional use of an airplane. You don't play just with airplanes. If that is your thing, the air pack is not what you are looking for (hence your disappointment). There are other games that allow you to play with airplanes. Wings of War is a good example, and quite fun.
      
Achtung Panzer
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Re:opinions on air pack? Wed, 21 November 2012 10:01
I like the Air Power expansion - I just find the rules a little confusing - AS is an AP equivalent, but it's not (i.e. one in, one out of your hand).

I think this is down to very infrequent use of the rules and a fading memory! Rolling Eyes
      
clexton27
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Re:opinions on air pack? Wed, 21 November 2012 13:27
Whether you like the Air Rules or not it is nice to know that Richard and DOW spent some time to factor in the air element and allow us the opportunity to spice up the game with it. I am happy with the rules as they are. I know that for some scenarios, air rules can dominate the play, but most of the time the buzzing airplanes are a pesky nuisance that keeps you on your toes.

Thanks for the effort DOW.

I really like my shiny planes (all 16 of them).

http://cdn1.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/img/mm_ap_messerschmitt.jpg
      
JFKoski
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Re:opinions on air pack? Wed, 21 November 2012 19:53
Now that it's out of print, maybe they can print some of the scenarios in a new printing of the Terrain Pack that don't use Air Rules. Some are unclassified:
Mont Mouchet w/Roads,
Valkenswaard,
Saverne Gap w/Roads.
      
player1251980
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Re:opinions on air pack? Sat, 02 February 2013 01:10
I enjoyed playing with my friends air pack. I would like to know will there be a re-release of the air pack?
      
rasmussen81
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Re:opinions on air pack? Sat, 02 February 2013 03:51
player1251980 wrote on Sat, 02 February 2013 04:10

I enjoyed playing with my friends air pack. I would like to know will there be a re-release of the air pack?


DoW has made it pretty clear that they will not reprint the Air Pack. But you can buy a PDF version of the rules and such, if you want.
      
player1251980
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Re:opinions on air pack? Sat, 02 February 2013 05:36
Thank You for the information. I am new to the Memoir 44 community and have not made it thru the entire forum. I have purchased the PDF version. I did not know DoW was not going to reprint the Air Pack. Anyhow, Thanks for answering my question.
      
tank commander
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Re:opinions on air pack? Sat, 02 February 2013 11:43
player1251980 wrote on Fri, 01 February 2013 23:36

I am new to the Memoir 44 community and have not made it thru the entire forum.


Hello and welcome. We are always glad to have an additional player on board.

Good luck on reading the entire forum Laughing There is a lot of info in them and some make very good reading but that is a big task indeed.

Be sure to ask any questions you may have either in an exisitng thread or by starting your own. By and large this is a very helpful group.

John S.
      
JFKoski
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Re:opinions on air pack? Sun, 03 February 2013 05:37
We've been practicing some scenarios with Air Rules to get ready for the tournament in Charlottesville, and I still don't like them. It seems I get grenades rolled against my plane for Air Check more than my opponent's. (I also get 2 grenades on 3 dice versus my artillery more often than you'd think, but that's another story.)

For Counter-Attack at Mortain, in both games the Allies weren't dealt a Recon in the starting hand, and didn't stay on the hill long enough to benefit if one came along after round 2+. Still, it was more fun going to 6 medals than 4.

For Operation Cobra, as Allies, I tried to go up the Right with the plane, but rolled a retreat so didn't get to use Ground Support rule.
>When my opponent was Allies, he decided to ignore the plane so it vanished the first turn.

For Mabatang, neither side chose to go Kamikazee. As Japanese, I lost one plane to Air Check roll (1d), then drew Air Sortie, brought in a plane and lost that one to Air Check too (2d)!
>When my opponent was Japanese, he did a couple strafing runs over infantry in sandbags (rather than artillery), knocking them to 2, then allowed his plane to withdraw rather than roll 3 dice for Air Check (after I'd moved units next to his plane). I drew both Air Sorties as Allies but didn't have the Center cards to go strafing his artillery, which had moved off the baseline.

For Montélimar, both games the Allies drew Air Sortie in their starting hand, so the Axis had to get off the runway or risk losing it to an easy strafing medal! As Axis, I played TFH and rolled a star, so was happy until my Air Check came up a grenade (2d)!
>As Allies, after the Germans used BEL to attack then pull back a lone-fig inf 3 spaces, I played Air Sortie w/Right to bring in a plane, block retreat and strafe to kill for the win.

For Counter-Attack at Arras, as Germans I brought in my plane with Assault-Center to fly over his artillery and hover in the clear. He pulled up his lone-fig armor next to it, ending in the adjacent town after A-O and TG. My Air Check was OK (1d) so my plane headed right, and strafing killed his tank in the Center. I got his other lone-fig armor in the forest by strafing, making 2 kills by plane! Allies didn't bring in their plane.
>When I was Allies, Germans brought in their plane to try to kill my lone-fig inf in the 2nd rank on the Right, but missed. Assault-Right brought in my plane and moved 3 units next to his plane to make his Air Check=5. He wisely decided to remove his plane rather than roll 5d. He then won on the ground.

[Updated on: Wed, 13 February 2013 19:49]

      
tank commander
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Re:opinions on air pack? Sun, 03 February 2013 11:53
In one Overlord (SFtF - Iwo Jima) game my Kamikze attacks took out 4 units-2 combat Eng infantry,a Flame tank and an infantry-without medal loss to myself. It was nice to wipe out entire units like that Very Happy
      
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