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GeneralRichter
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April 2013
  Advice For A Hesitant But Prospective Player Thu, 04 April 2013 18:44
I want to preface this post by stating that I have been following Memoire 44 for a while, but ended up picking up Tides of Iron instead, though not for the reason many might think. Bottom line, Memoire 44 did not have the Tiger tank. I state 'did not' mainly because while the Tiger was released in the 'Tigers in the Snow' expansion, that is no longer in print and DoW has stated they have no intention of re-releasing the 'Season 1' map packs. Honestly I could care less about the map/scenario, I just want the tank and its card.

So, I went with Tides of Iron due to not only having access to the Tiger tank (and in quantity), but also the King Tiger.

But recently I've been looking to get a lighter weight WW2 wargame and re-examined Memoire 44. Lo and behold, there is now the Equipment Pack which has not only the Tiger, but the Elefant tank destroyer AND an aircraft expansion. However on closer examination of the pack (which is around $45-50 depending on where you look), it only comes with 3 Tiger tanks and 8 Elefants (How the heck does that make sense, it should be reverse!).

Now I'm hesitant about investing in a game in which the signature tank of the era is still being sidelined. 3 Tiger tanks would mean I would have to buy the Equipment Pack at least 3 times to get a usable number of tanks (at $100 just to get at one tank).

So I'm left wondering if there is *any* hope of a booster being released at some point that might have the Tiger and King Tiger together to augment the Equipment pack only having 3 and DoW refusing to reprint 'Tigers in the Snow'? Granted there are other tanks I'm disappointed are not in Memoir yet besides the Tiger (Hotchkiss, Marder, Panzer II, Panzer III, Jagdpanzer IV, Jagdpather, Jagdtiger, Hetzer, Stug III, the Maus [insert sarcastic 'ha ha']), but considering how iconic it is, the Tiger is something you expect.

And yes, I checked Ebay. Any other suggestions on find the Tiger tank and its card? If not, any suggestions on an alternative miniature based ww2 game?

[Updated on: Thu, 04 April 2013 18:46]

      
tank commander
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Re:Advice For A Hesitant But Prospective Player Thu, 04 April 2013 22:18
My recommendation is to buy the Memoir '44 base game and any expansions you find of interest to you.

You can use your Tide of Iron minis with Memoir '44 and you can find the Tiger card here:

http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/content/cards_compen dium/?id=troop_17384

You can print that out.

If you are not too hung up on getting certain Memoir '44 minis this may work for you.

I hope this is helpful.

      
5 star general
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Re:Advice For A Hesitant But Prospective Player Thu, 04 April 2013 22:50
If you check on ebay under toys and hobbies you will ghq micro armor and find different Tigers at fifferent prices.
Hope this helps you.
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Kaufschtick
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Re:Advice For A Hesitant But Prospective Player Thu, 04 April 2013 23:43
GeneralRichter wrote on Thu, 04 April 2013 12:44

Now I'm hesitant about investing in a game in which the signature tank of the era is still being sidelined. 3 Tiger tanks would mean I would have to buy the Equipment Pack at least 3 times to get a usable number of tanks (at $100 just to get at one tank).


The Tigers in M44 are used only one figure per unit. They're not like the other armor in the game where there are usually 3 figures per unit.

I was reading through the OP, and it struck me that I too am a Tide of Iron owner, and I recently came to the conclusion that for me, M44 was definately the better game. I say that because at 47 years of age, married with 5 children, time is the main ingredient for me these days when it comes to wargames and wargaming.

Aside from that, M44 offers some other advantages, IMHO, over ToI and really, just about any other WWII wargame around. Thats saying a lot too, when you consider games like ASL, Panzer Grenadier, Lock n' Load, Conflict of Hero's, Combat Commander (& Fighting Formations), Flames of War, Axis and Allies Miniatures and Art of Tactic.

All of the above mentioned games are terrific, and each in their own right have exceptional qualities that make them super games depending on what you are looking for in a wargame.

ToIs main drawback, IMO, is the scenarios. Too many of the scenarios that come with the game are imbalanced, which can make for some extremely bad first impressions with new players. The combined fire rule is the only chink in the rules. In some scenarios, it is crucial to have the rule while in others it should be disallowed.

I recently completed painting my pieces for M44, and I rolled into the pieces painted, most of my ToI pieces. What was funny to me in reading the OP was that I preferred the M44 Tigers over the ToI Tigers! The ToI Tiger sculpts are not very good, IMHO. So much so, that I didn't even bother painting them and including them.
      
Kaufschtick
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Re:Advice For A Hesitant But Prospective Player Fri, 05 April 2013 19:28
My kids chased me off the PC yesterday, and posting from my phone gets a little difficult, but I wanted to continue with some thoughts on why M44 was a better choice than ToI, and my main point was going to be company support.

However, today I read that FFG has moved to give some outfit called 1A Games the license to take over the ToI gameline, so investing in ToI isn't dead after all!

The bottom line for me is that M44 and ToI are very similar games, but both are different enough that if you like one, you're most likely going to like the other. Odd to say, I know, but that's how I feel. I'd sum it up like this: M44 has unbelievable game support from DoW, and you're not going to beat it in a million years for an introductory wargame. It has enough scope and depth to keep the more serious wargamers "on the hook" as well.

ToI is a little more time involved, a little more rules involved, until now has had less than desrirable game support, and has a few more bells and whistles. So if you dont mind diving in a little deeper, ToI is a good choice, but its not the game you're going to be able to let sit on the shelf for a long time, then just pick it up with a new player and have fun.

I would say, now that a new outfit is taking over, that it is the next best thing to M44 out there, but keep in mind that M44 is just an amazing game, with unbeatable game support.

I could go on and on about M44, it has something for everyone, and I think that if SEAL team six ever snatched it up in one of their raids, they would definately describe it as a "treasure trove" of a find! Very Happy

[Updated on: Fri, 05 April 2013 19:29]

      
Aussie_Digger
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Re:Advice For A Hesitant But Prospective Player Sat, 06 April 2013 07:05
GeneralRichter wrote on Fri, 05 April 2013 02:14




So I'm left wondering if there is *any* hope of a booster being released at some point that might have the Tiger and King Tiger together to augment the Equipment pack only having 3 and DoW refusing to reprint 'Tigers in the Snow'? Granted there are other tanks I'm disappointed are not in Memoir yet besides the Tiger (Hotchkiss, Marder, Panzer II, Panzer III, Jagdpanzer IV, Jagdpather, Jagdtiger, Hetzer, Stug III, the Maus [insert sarcastic 'ha ha']), but considering how iconic it is, the Tiger is something you expect.




I also own ToI, but have not played it for some time as I found the support that it was given from FFG was very bad (looks like things might change though with 1A games taking it over, though I have invested in The lock and lock series to fill the gap, which i love)

With Memoir you need to remember it is more abstract in the way units are represented, so the tanks that come with the base game would be used to represent all main tank types (some scenarios use less figures to represent light tanks.

The Tigers would also be used to represent all heavy type tanks. while only 3 come with the equipment pack that is still 3 units of tigers (as only 1 is used as a unit, not 3 like the normal tanks) also the scale of memoir dose tend to be on a more zoomed out scale than ToI so your tigers are going to represent platoons, companies or even battalions (so in the case of a platoon 1 tiger would be like 5 tigers in ToI to some degree)

The tanks destroyers that come with the equipment pack (or the badges used to represent them from other expansions)are ment to be used for all types of tank destroyer units (ie Jagdpanzer IV, Jagdpather, Jagdtiger and even allied types)

Although the Tiger is an iconic tank of WW2 the reality is the numbers that took part in the battles were very small compared to other types (which is why there are a lot less included, but if you have the map pack then you would have 9 all up including equipment pack ones.)

After saying all this I do see where you are coming from as it would be nice to have that particular units to represent the type the took part in the battle. I don't really see myself using the Ferdinand (Elephant) to represent American tank destroyers.
      
tank commander
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Re:Advice For A Hesitant But Prospective Player Sat, 06 April 2013 15:07
One other note - the Memoir '44 TD - (Elephant) is much smaller than their Tiger although both were based on the Tiger chassis. Too bad they were not made to the same scale.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Advice For A Hesitant But Prospective Player Sat, 06 April 2013 16:12
To the original poster - it kind of sounds like you enjoy the miniatures element of ToI and you're interested in that part of Memoir '44. But this is not a miniatures game where all of the types of units are represented and look just like the real thing. The Equipment Pack took Memoir '44 a bit further in that direction, but that is not the focus of this game.

If you care a lot about what type of unit you're using (which is sounds like you do) then you might be disappointed by Memoir. It may never reach the level of realism you're looking for because it's a light war game. Cool
      
    
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