Five Tribes Five Tribes

Forums

Search
Forums » Memoir '44 - English » Questions
Show: Today's Posts 
  
AuthorTopic
Rork
Member

User Pages
Posts: 50
Registered:
November 2006
Questions Wed, 06 November 2013 18:30
Hello fellow wargamers Cool .

After a long pause due to lack of Memoir 44 players in Romania and some personal time shortage, I finally found someone with a shared interest in WWII and boardgames and decided to go through the grand campaigns.
Since I haven't played the game in more than a year (and before that only occasionally), I ran into some problems for which it seems there's no answer in the FAQs/forums - or maybe I haven't looked hard enough, so apologies if this message tackles old topics while mixing in some random thoughts.

General questions
1. If an ordered unit close assaults from terrain/obstacle cover and the Ambush card is played, does the ambushing unit ignores or not battle dice reductions?
2. The Armor Overrun abilty states: " (...) an ordered Armor unit MAY move into the vacated hex and MAY then battle again." I capitalized "may", because if I chose to not take ground, then can the Armor unit still fire a second time?
3. If a Recon 1 card is played on a section with no units, do you still get to draw the extra card?
4. Brandenburger Commandos, Combat Engineers - shouldn't those units be considered as Specialized and/or Elite?
5. In the course of a Grand Campaign, do Reserve Tokens transfer from one campaign to the other?

Campaign Book 1 questions
Unternehmen Fall Gelb campaign
The Bodange scenario only counts as 1 point with no other (general) campaign rules (for instance, number of medals won) applying to it, correct?
Eben-Emaël scenario
- For historical accuracy, reinforcements for the Germans may come in as paradrops or maybe it should be a particular condition for this scenario that the Germans get a single token free infantry unit paradrop.
- Also maybe a more accurate map could be redesigned for the walkthrough format, which leads me to another question: has anyone tried a campaign that combines regular scenarios with the Breakthrough and/or the Overlord format?
Valkenburg Airfield scenario
- "All German troops are either paratroopers or assault infantry units (Troops 2 - Specialized Units)." As far as I know, paratroopers are not listed as specialized units, nor do they have in the game any special abilities to be qualified as such, so what do those scenarios notes mean? Are German reinforcements in this particular scenario come in only as air drops? And what exactly is an assault infantry unit?

Campaign Book 2 questions
Does the Position Control rule also applies to Campaign Book 1?
Fall of Poland campaign
- If the Western Allies "What if?" event is active, does the German player still rolls a die for the reserve rolls (maybe hoping for a free Veteran Star token)?

Thank you very much for any clarifications concerning the above.

[Updated on: Thu, 07 November 2013 09:39]

      
stevens
Senior Member
Memoir '44 Online Betatester

User Pages
Posts: 3013
Registered:
February 2007
Re:Questions Wed, 06 November 2013 19:24
Rork wrote on Wed, 06 November 2013 12:30

Hello fellow wargamers Cool .

General questions
1. If an ordered unit close assaults from terrain/obstacle cover and the Ambush card is played, does the ambushing unit ignores or not battle dice reductions?
Only if the AMBUSHING unit is an Artillery unit or Engineer Unit may it, in general, ignore the battle dice reductions of the terrain the attacking unit is firing from. There are some terrains where even artillery dice are reduced. Just think of AMBUSHING as getting to "attack first" so always consider the abilities of the attacking unit and the defenders terrain.

2. The Armor Overrun abilty states: " (...) an ordered Armor unit MAY move into the vacated hex and MAY then battle again." I capitalized "may", because if I chose to not take ground, then can the Armor unit still fire a second time?
The Armor Overun benefit is an ALL OR NOTHING benefit. If you choose NOT TO (may) or cannot take ground due to terrain limitations, then you can not fire or battle again.

3. If a Recon 1 card is played on a section with no units, do you still get to draw the extra card?
YES!

4. Brandenburger Commandos, Combat Engineers - shouldn't those units be considered as Specialized and/or Elite?
Actually, Brandenburger Commandos are specialized units. Review the card compendium. They may move two and battle on any turn.

http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/content/cards_compen dium/?id=troop_17382

Combat engineers function as standard infantry, they move one and battle or move two and not battle. However, they do have a separate set of benefits related to wire, terrain dice reductions, minefields, etc.


5. In the course of a Grand Campaign, do Reserve Tokens transfer from one campaign to the other?
It is best to read the rules carefully. In some campaigns the allotted number of tokens only relates to the short 3-4 game series. In some of the Eastern front Campaigns, tokens must be alloted way in advance and may only be used in certain times. When in doubt read the rules.

For your specific Campaign Book questions, read the rules. Don't assume that what you think "should be" for historical reasons is actually a part of the rules. Also review the FAQ guides for the campaign Books. You may be able to find them if you read through the ERRATA postings for these books on this site.

Campaign Book 1 questions
Unternehmen Fall Gelb campaign
The Bodange scenario only counts as 1 point with no other (general) campaign rules (for instance, number of medals won) applying to it, correct?
Eben-Emaël scenario
- For historical accuracy, reinforcements for the Germans may come in as paradrops or maybe it should be a particular condition for this scenario that the Germans get a single token free infantry unit paradrop.
- Also maybe a more accurate map could be redesigned for the walkthrough format, which leads me to another question: has anyone tried a campaign that combines regular scenarios with the Breakthrough and/or the Overlord format?
Valkenburg Airfield scenario
- "All German troops are either paratroopers or assault infantry units (Troops 2 - Specialized Units)." As far as I know,
paratroopers are not listed as specialized units, nor do they have in the game any special abilities to be qualified as such, so what do those scenarios notes mean? Are German reinforcements in this particular scenario come in only as air drops? And what exactly is an assault infantry unit?

Campaign Book 2 questions
Does the Position Control rule also applies to Campaign Book 1?
Fall of Poland campaign
- If the Western Allies "What if?" event is active, does the German player still rolls a die for the reserve rolls (maybe hoping for a free Veteran Star token)?

Thank you very much for any clarifications concerning the above.

[Updated on: Wed, 06 November 2013 19:28]

      
Rork
Member

User Pages
Posts: 50
Registered:
November 2006
Re:Questions Wed, 06 November 2013 22:57
Thank you for the answers to questions 1-3.

On question 4, I take it Combat Engineers are no specialized units, therefore they can't be chosen as reserve during a campaign, while Brandenburger Commandos can be chosen as such - correct?

Question 5 was more to make sure of the rule, so here it is re-formulated: unless otherwise specified, unused Reserve Tokens don't transfer between campaigns in a Grand campaign - correct?

I read the rules quite carefully and I've spent quite some time researching some answers on the Internet. I found nothing clear-cut and I'm asking these questions because sometimes the wording is very confusing with the info sometimes missing altogether or spread out over several rulebooks/cards which sometimes conflict with one another.
I did re-read the threads you indicated and these issues are not addressed there. Also nothing in the Campaign Books clears up these specific problems, so nevermind the Eben-Emaël scenario historical accuracies (this is obviously asking too much), but the rest of my questions still stand.

[Updated on: Thu, 07 November 2013 09:40]

      
rasmussen81
DoW Content Provider
Designer's Oath

User Pages
Posts: 7072
Registered:
July 2007
Re:Questions Wed, 06 November 2013 23:14
Rork wrote on Wed, 06 November 2013 21:30


Campaign Book 1 questions
Unternehmen Fall Gelb campaign
The Bodange scenario only counts as 1 point with no other (general) campaign rules (for instance, number of medals won) applying to it, correct?

I would have to look back at it to make sure, but I believe that is correct. The only time they count for extra points towards the total is when they have a Heavy Tank track.

Eben-Emaël scenario
- For historical accuracy, reinforcements for the Germans may come in as paradrops or maybe it should be a particular condition for this scenario that the Germans get a single token free infantry unit paradrop.

This isn't really a question, so I'm not sure what you're looking for. The only units that can be given as reinforcements for this scenario are Infantry (no Tanks for Artillery allowed). But any time you want to change something to make it more fun for you and you're friend, feel free!

- Also maybe a more accurate map could be redesigned for the walkthrough format, which leads me to another question: has anyone tried a campaign that combines regular scenarios with the Breakthrough and/or the Overlord format?

It runs in my mind that someone has, but I don't remember who or where you might find it. It's possible there are some over on BGG, but again, I don't remember exactly.

Valkenburg Airfield scenario
- "All German troops are either paratroopers or assault infantry units (Troops 2 - Specialized Units)." As far as I know,
paratroopers are not listed as specialized units, nor do they have in the game any special abilities to be qualified as such, so what do those scenarios notes mean? Are German reinforcements in this particular scenario come in only as air drops? And what exactly is an assault infantry unit?

This just means they are Specialized Units (Troops 2). The names or types are just for flavor.

Campaign Book 2 questions
Does the Position Control rule also applies to Campaign Book 1?
Fall of Poland campaign

They apply if you and your friend want them to. Again, it's all about having fun, so if it would be fun to apply this rule, then go for it. I apply it when I play any Campaign.

- If the Western Allies "What if?" event is active, does the German player still rolls a die for the reserve rolls (maybe hoping for a free Veteran Star token)?

I would have to look at the situation because I don't know which "What if?" situation you're talking about. As always, you can play the game how you want, so no matter what the answer actually is, you can play as you want.

Thank you very much for any clarifications concerning the above.

You are very welcome! I'm glad you made it back to the game!!


      
Sgt Storm
Senior Member
Lieutenant

User Pages
Posts: 878
Registered:
December 2006
Re:Questions Thu, 07 November 2013 00:09
Rork wrote on Wed, 06 November 2013 16:57

Thank you for the answers to questions 1-3.

On question 4, I take it Combat Engineers are no specialized units, therefore they can't be chosen as reserve during a campaign, while Brandenburger Commandos can be chosen as such - correct?


Correct, if the reserve roll rules say "Elite infantry unit (Troops 2 - Specialized Units)" then it is just that. Combat Engineers and Brandenburger Commandos are different units covered by different rules, that is, read the Troops 2 card and those are the rules that apply.


Quote:

Question 5 was more to make sure of the rule, so here it is re-formulated: unless otherwise specified, unused Reserve Tokens don't transfer between campaigns in a Grnad campaign - correct?


Correct.
      
Sgt Storm
Senior Member
Lieutenant

User Pages
Posts: 878
Registered:
December 2006
Re:Questions Thu, 07 November 2013 00:15
Quote:

Campaign Book 2 questions
Does the Position Control rule also applies to Campaign Book 1?
Fall of Poland campaign



No. But as stated above, you could change the rules if you like. One thing to keep in mind is theoretically, the scenarios were balanced with the applicable rules in place. Not sure that really matters in practice as balance is usually pretty iffy on some scenarios and especially campaigns (just my personal experience).

Quote:


- If the Western Allies "What if?" event is active, does the German player still rolls a die for the reserve rolls (maybe hoping for a free Veteran Star token)?


The "What if?" roll occurs first and in addition to the usual Reserve Roll and Victory Event rolls (between scenarios).
      
Sgt Storm
Senior Member
Lieutenant

User Pages
Posts: 878
Registered:
December 2006
Re:Questions Thu, 07 November 2013 00:24
Quote:

Campaign Book 1 questions
Unternehmen Fall Gelb campaign
The Bodange scenario only counts as 1 point with no other (general) campaign rules (for instance, number of medals won) applying to it, correct?


The grand campaign rules for "Victory" do not indicate you add anything for the introductory scenario, therefore I would not add any points. That is, my assumption is that this is just an introductory scenario to add flavor and has no bearing on the victory.

The key point here is if the rules don't mention something then it must be intentional (until proven otherwise, say by a FAQ entry).
      
Jaykay2010
Senior Member
Michael Wittmann

User Pages
Posts: 579
Registered:
November 2009
Re:Questions Thu, 07 November 2013 00:48
Sgt Storm wrote on Wed, 06 November 2013 23:24

Quote:

Campaign Book 1 questions
Unternehmen Fall Gelb campaign
The Bodange scenario only counts as 1 point with no other (general) campaign rules (for instance, number of medals won) applying to it, correct?


The grand campaign rules for "Victory" do not indicate you add anything for the introductory scenario, therefore I would not add any points. That is, my assumption is that this is just an introductory scenario to add flavor and has no bearing on the victory.

The key point here is if the rules don't mention something then it must be intentional (until proven otherwise, say by a FAQ entry).



Actually, both the Bodange scenario AND the Dunkirk scenario have an affect on the final score/victory...

In the overall score sheet for the Grand Campaign, (found in the CB1 book, on the last page of this campaign), both the Bodange introductory scenario, and the Dunkirk, (closing scenario), are listed, both offering a single Grand Campaign point for the victor of each.

So it IS included in the score tally.

Jim

[Updated on: Thu, 07 November 2013 10:48]

      
Rork
Member

User Pages
Posts: 50
Registered:
November 2006
Re:Questions Thu, 07 November 2013 09:38
Thank you all for the answers.

Seems to me that some official clarification is needed on the content of Specialized Troops. Brandenburgers are not listed as such, nor are paratroopers, so they can't be chosen as Reserve rolls. The wording on Valkenburg Airfield scenarios is misleading: assault troops apparently refers to specialized troops, while paratroopers are... what exactly? If paratroopers are supposed to act like specialized troops on this particular scenario, then a clearer scenario note is needed, as well as one refering to how they enter the map (paradrop seems logical imho).
It's nice to throw lots of cool names around (assault infantry, elite troops and so on), but since a game system should try to be as coherent as possible, then maybe Specialized Troops (as the name suggests) should cover any infantry unit that behaves out of the norm - just a thought.

Sgt Storm wrote on Thu, 07 November 2013 01:15


- If the Western Allies "What if?" event is active, does the German player still rolls a die for the reserve rolls (maybe hoping for a free Veteran Star token)?

The "What if?" roll occurs first and in addition to the usual Reserve Roll and Victory Event rolls (between scenarios).


If said event is active, the the German player loses all reserve tokens for the rest of the campaign. That would mean that rolling for reserve would be useless; however, there are the two star rolls, which are free, so the German player actually can try his luck between scenarios - correct?

rasmussen81 wrote on Thu, 07 November 2013 00:14


Eben-Emaël scenario
- For historical accuracy, reinforcements for the Germans may come in as paradrops or maybe it should be a particular condition for this scenario that the Germans get a single token free infantry unit paradrop.

This isn't really a question, so I'm not sure what you're looking for. The only units that can be given as reinforcements for this scenario are Infantry (no Tanks for Artillery allowed). But any time you want to change something to make it more fun for you and you're friend, feel free!


My mistake, sorry, I should've phrased it otherwise. As noted on another thread, reinforcements for the Axis in this particular scenario can't enter the map. To add a minimum of historical accuracy, a note should be added to the scenario that the Allies get no reinforcements, while the Axis can get one (1) paradropped combat engineers unit; if not paradropped, then a timed entry (say, as soon as the German player occupies - not sabotages - a turret) on the roof of the fort is equally acceptable. Or simply state that no reinforcements are available for either side in this scenario and be done with it Very Happy .
So yea, it was no question, more of a suggestion as to how make things just a tiny bit more realistic. Sure we can use house rules (such as making tanks more vulnerable in difficult terrain or artillery more vulnerable in close assault), but methinks this is a topic for another thread.
      
Aussie_Digger
Senior Member
Lieutenant

User Pages
Posts: 210
Registered:
March 2010
Re:Questions Thu, 07 November 2013 10:28
Rork wrote on Thu, 07 November 2013 18:08

Thank you all for the answers.

Seems to me that some official clarification is needed on the content of Specialized Troops. Brandenburgers are not listed as such, nor are paratroopers, so they can't be chosen as Reserve rolls. .


No Clarification needed as there is a troops card titled Specialized troops.

http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/content/cards_compen dium/?id=troop_2

So the rules says this is what you get. All the other troop types you mentioned have their own cards, so if the rules say you can choose specialized troops then that is what you can get nothing else,
      
stevens
Senior Member
Memoir '44 Online Betatester

User Pages
Posts: 3013
Registered:
February 2007
Re:Questions Thu, 07 November 2013 13:37
Aussie_Digger wrote on Thu, 07 November 2013 04:28

Rork wrote on Thu, 07 November 2013 18:08

Thank you all for the answers.

Seems to me that some official clarification is needed on the content of Specialized Troops. Brandenburgers are not listed as such, nor are paratroopers, so they can't be chosen as Reserve rolls. .


No Clarification needed as there is a troops card titled Specialized troops.

http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/content/cards_compen dium/?id=troop_2

So the rules says this is what you get. All the other troop types you mentioned have their own cards, so if the rules say you can choose specialized troops then that is what you can get nothing else,


Some bit of clarification here. Although I stated that BRANDENBURGERS are a type of specialized troops, they are not the type described by the rules which specify (Troops -2)

http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/content/cards_compen dium/?id=troop_2

Aussie_Digger is bang on in his answer.

[Updated on: Thu, 07 November 2013 13:42]

      
Sgt Storm
Senior Member
Lieutenant

User Pages
Posts: 878
Registered:
December 2006
Re:Questions Thu, 07 November 2013 21:05
Rork wrote on Thu, 07 November 2013 03:38


Sgt Storm wrote on Thu, 07 November 2013 01:15


- If the Western Allies "What if?" event is active, does the German player still rolls a die for the reserve rolls (maybe hoping for a free Veteran Star token)?

The "What if?" roll occurs first and in addition to the usual Reserve Roll and Victory Event rolls (between scenarios).


If said event is active, the the German player loses all reserve tokens for the rest of the campaign. That would mean that rolling for reserve would be useless; however, there are the two star rolls, which are free, so the German player actually can try his luck between scenarios - correct?


The rules don't say the Germans don't roll the dice. They only say they have no reserve tokens (and this in effect means they can't bring in reserve units). Any other role effect would still apply. So if you rolled two stars you would get a Veteran Star as that does not require a reserve token. Same with the air power token/card.
      
Rork
Member

User Pages
Posts: 50
Registered:
November 2006
Re:Questions Thu, 07 November 2013 21:43
If I wanted to split hairs, I'd say that:
1. Brandenburger are commandos and commandos are mentioned as such on the Specialized Troops card;
2. Paratroopers don't have their own card.
But it doesn't really matter, as the question was answered.

I still believe that wording and notes are sometimes confusing and/or not explicit enough, but there's nothing that can't be fixed and tried with minor changes in the rule.
So at one point or another we'll try some scenarios with the house rule that Specialized Units include all units that behave in a different way than in the original rules. Should be fun to have partisans popping up around a previously secured objective Razz . Of course, we'll take into consideration the battle date for Special Weapon Assets, but this house rule might actually balance or add some spice to some scenarios. And it should also impose a new layer of tactical depth as to what Elite unit would be best to choose, given a particular enemy force and battlefield.

I may have other questions as we advance through the campaigns, so I shall return Wink . But meanwhile again many, many thanks for all the answers.

[Updated on: Thu, 07 November 2013 21:51]

      
Aussie_Digger
Senior Member
Lieutenant

User Pages
Posts: 210
Registered:
March 2010
Re:Questions Fri, 08 November 2013 00:05
Rork wrote on Fri, 08 November 2013 06:13

If I wanted to split hairs, I'd say that:
1. Brandenburger are commandos and commandos are mentioned as such on the Specialized Troops card;
2. Paratroopers don't have their own card.
But it doesn't really matter, as the question was answered.

I still believe that wording and notes are sometimes confusing and/or not explicit enough, but there's nothing that can't be fixed and tried with minor changes in the rule.
So at one point or another we'll try some scenarios with the house rule that Specialized Units include all units that behave in a different way than in the original rules. Should be fun to have partisans popping up around a previously secured objective Razz . Of course, we'll take into consideration the battle date for Special Weapon Assets, but this house rule might actually balance or add some spice to some scenarios. And it should also impose a new layer of tactical depth as to what Elite unit would be best to choose, given a particular enemy force and battlefield.


I may have other questions as we advance through the campaigns, so I shall return Wink . But meanwhile again many, many thanks for all the answers.


Basically when the rules state a unit type you just refer to that card.
Brandenburgers have their own set of rules. Originally the specialized troops represented all special units when only the base game was around, as expansion were added to the mix then individual special unit types had their own rules made as they operated a bit different. Para troops are pretty much just specialized troops the only difference is that the para drop action can be used to put them on the board as long as it is mentioned in the scenario special rules. So you could say I want to make my specialized troop a para trooper, but in reality they would operate in the same way as a specialized troop (and you couldn't use the para drop action unless it listed as being able to be used)

With memoir all you need to do is follow the rules literary and correspond the rules listed with the correct titled rules / cards.
      
Rork
Member

User Pages
Posts: 50
Registered:
November 2006
Re:Questions Sat, 09 November 2013 14:16
Having finished the Airborne Operation campaign, I'm back with some questions sooner than I would've expected.

Moerdijk Bridges/Unternehmen Niwi scenarios
Scenario notes: As soon as 3 Allied units are eliminated, the Axis player may call in armor reinforcements (Actions 22 - Armor Breakthrough).
1. Since in most cases a unit can be eliminated only on the Battle sequence of your turn, it means the armor reinforcement can only be called on your next turn - correct?
2. If an Allied 3rd unit is eliminated during the Allies' turn, say as a a result of using the Ambush card, then on the very next Axis turn armor reinforcements may be called in - correct?
3. If 1 depleted Allied armored unit is eliminated, does it counts as 1 Allied unit eliminated (see scenario notes)?
4. The above-quoted card Actions 22 states: (units) may battle and Take Ground this turn, but not Armor Overrun - does this rule still applies to the called in Axis' armor units?

Scenario notes (continued from above): A single armor unit may arrive on the hex "To Breda".
5. What happens if designated hex is already occupied by an Allied unit (question also applies to Unternehmen Niwi scenario)?

Some random thoughts about this campaign:
- Reserve rolls for the Germans should be restricted to only paradropped specialized infantry units, with the option (according to the the symbols rolled) to upgrade to Combat Engineers or other types of units that are not mentioned/included on the Troops 2 card. No Tanks or Artillery unless otherwised mentioned in the scenario notes.
- Reserve rolls for the Allies should be restricted to Belgian/Dutch ones, that is depleted units, with the option (according to the the symbols rolled) to upgrade to French (or maybe British) ones, that is full-strength units.
- Since operations covered in this campaign started very early in the morning, maybe using Night Rules should be taken into consideration (at least optional in some scenarios).
- In the Eben-Emaël scenario, a less luck-influenced sabotage method should be devised: maybe a simple timer, such as continously occupying the turrets for a number of turns. It was extremely frustrating to have three turrets occupied for 4 turns, only to roll 1 star in 24 throws and end up with a single Permanent Objective Medal.
- Blitz Rules should give the Axis 2d for air attacks, overriding the Air Power card.
- Air rules should be mandatory, as Blitzkrieg and Stukas were organically linked... um, wait, no Stuka and I get a Fieseler-Storch?!? Razz

And one final question: is there a thread devoted for suggestions about the game and/or the campaigns?

Again, thanks in advance to anyone who answers.
      
Aussie_Digger
Senior Member
Lieutenant

User Pages
Posts: 210
Registered:
March 2010
Re:Questions Sun, 10 November 2013 02:05
Rork wrote on Sat, 09 November 2013 22:46

Having finished the Airborne Operation campaign, I'm back with some questions sooner than I would've expected.

Moerdijk Bridges/Unternehmen Niwi scenarios
Scenario notes: As soon as 3 Allied units are eliminated, the Axis player may call in armor reinforcements (Actions 22 - Armor Breakthrough).
1. Since in most cases a unit can be eliminated only on the Battle sequence of your turn, it means the armor reinforcement can only be called on your next turn - correct?
2. If an Allied 3rd unit is eliminated during the Allies' turn, say as a a result of using the Ambush card, then on the very next Axis turn armor reinforcements may be called in - correct?


That's correct since it takes an order to bring on the armour units.

Rork wrote on Sat, 09 November 2013 22:46


3. If 1 depleted Allied armored unit is eliminated, does it counts as 1 Allied unit eliminated (see scenario notes)??


This I play as the rules are written since it doesn't refer to 3 medals but eliminated units I would say that the depleted units would count to only stipulation is that they don't count asa medal when eliminated (so they are an allied unit and they can be eliminated).

Rork wrote on Sat, 09 November 2013 22:46


4. The above-quoted card Actions 22 states: (units) may battle and Take Ground this turn, but not Armor Overrun - does this rule still applies to the called in Axis' armor units?


This rule applies for the turn that the called up armour units enter the board (as per the card)

Rork wrote on Sat, 09 November 2013 22:46


Scenario notes (continued from above): A single armor unit may arrive on the hex "To Breda".
5. What happens if designated hex is already occupied by an Allied unit (question also applies to Unternehmen Niwi scenario)?


Then you need to clear the enemy unit from the hex so you can call them in.

Rork wrote on Sat, 09 November 2013 22:46



Some random thoughts about this campaign:

- In the Eben-Emaël scenario, a less luck-influenced sabotage method should be devised: maybe a simple timer, such as continously occupying the turrets for a number of turns. It was extremely frustrating to have three turrets occupied for 4 turns, only to roll 1 star in 24 throws and end up with a single Permanent Objective Medal.


Sounds like your troops were given some faulty equipment. When we last played this the bunkers were all destroyed on the first roll against them (sounds like Mars wasn't with your Germans) Smile

Rork wrote on Sat, 09 November 2013 22:46


- Blitz Rules should give the Axis 2d for air attacks, overriding the Air Power card.


I think the blitz rules which allow recons to be used as air power make up for this since you are able to call in attacks more frequently (plus it seems memoir is going in the direction of airpower being 1d across the board from what has come out recently)




Rork wrote on Sat, 09 November 2013 22:46


- Air rules should be mandatory, as Blitzkrieg and Stukas were organically linked... um, wait, no Stuka and I get a Fieseler-Storch?!? Razz


Well this is what the blitz rules represent so if you have the air pack (it is OOP ) you can use it but works just as well using the cards to abstractly play it. Either way the blitz rules are represented well for the air and ground forces cooperation.
      
Rork
Member

User Pages
Posts: 50
Registered:
November 2006
Re:Questions Sun, 10 November 2013 11:07
Aussie_Digger wrote on Sun, 10 November 2013 03:05

Sounds like your troops were given some faulty equipment. When we last played this the bunkers were all destroyed on the first roll against them (sounds like Mars wasn't with your Germans) Smile

When we first started the Grand campaign, we missed the rule about having to play first Bodange and my friend choose the Germans. In the end he got on Eben-Emaël 10d for 1 star (and we decided to start again from scratch in Poland and work our way through the entire war). And I wont't even count both our reserve/victory rolls over two campaigns now: no double stars ever and only two situations where another star was rolled... Or consider how difficult is to eliminate artillery.
I've also played other boardgames where only one side of the die counted as a hit (usually 6) and a one-in-six chance is rather difficult to achieve. So I'd say yours were extremely lucky rolls; well, that or someone had a secret training base for your combat engineers Very Happy .

Aussie_Digger wrote on Sun, 10 November 2013 03:05

I think the blitz rules which allow recons to be used as air power make up for this since you are able to call in attacks more frequently
(...)
Either way the blitz rules are represented well for the air and ground forces cooperation.


Of course it all depends on the battlefield situation, but usually having to chose between two command cards means a lot more than depleting units that will still fire as if they are full-strength. So it's far more likely to use the Recon 1 cards as intended, not to mention the fact that if you do play them as Air Power, you only order one airplane/turn and no other units, so no, it doesn't feel like Blitzkrieg at all.

Aussie_Digger wrote on Sun, 10 November 2013 03:05

(plus it seems memoir is going in the direction of airpower being 1d across the board from what has come out recently)

Where can I read more about this? It would be a solution that incidentally could pave the way for using 2d only for dive bombers (maybe a sort of add-on - with the Stuka figure Cool ; I'm pretty sure the Americans will get two dive bombers Wink - to the Air Pack).

Maybe it'd be best to keep this thread for rule clarifications only (although we can keep going like this), so I renew my question about whether there's a specific active thread about game suggestions/house rules et all.
      
Achtung Panzer
Senior Member
Leutnant

User Pages
Posts: 1063
Registered:
December 2007
Re:Questions Sun, 10 November 2013 20:26
Rork wrote on Sun, 10 November 2013 10:07



Aussie_Digger wrote on Sun, 10 November 2013 03:05

(plus it seems memoir is going in the direction of airpower being 1d across the board from what has come out recently)

Where can I read more about this? It would be a solution that incidentally could pave the way for using 2d only for dive bombers (maybe a sort of add-on - with the Stuka figure Cool ; I'm pretty sure the Americans will get two dive bombers Wink - to the Air Pack).



Go towards the end of this thread for the Air Power die roll debate:

http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?th=26818&start=0
      
Rork
Member

User Pages
Posts: 50
Registered:
November 2006
Re:Questions Mon, 11 November 2013 10:58
Achtung Panzer wrote on Sun, 10 November 2013 21:26

Go towards the end of this thread for the Air Power die roll debate:

http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?th=26818&start=0

Thank you very much for the link - most interesting.
As a matter of fact, I think we'll use from now on the Early/Late War Air Power rules. It's a very nice tweak of the original rules, so congrats to whoever introduced the idea.

[Updated on: Mon, 11 November 2013 15:42]

      
tank commander
Senior Member
I Love Pineapples

User Pages
Posts: 2072
Registered:
October 2004
Re:Questions Mon, 11 November 2013 15:09
I really like the Position Control rule and would use it in all campaigns. It is a great solution to get around the problem of a 1 fig unit (when another kill ends the game) occupying that objective hex you really want to take.

[Updated on: Mon, 11 November 2013 15:09]

      
Sgt Storm
Senior Member
Lieutenant

User Pages
Posts: 878
Registered:
December 2006
Re:Questions Mon, 11 November 2013 20:41
Quote:


Quote:

Scenario notes (continued from above): A single armor unit may arrive on the hex "To Breda".
5. What happens if designated hex is already occupied by an Allied unit (question also applies to Unternehmen Niwi scenario)?



Then you need to clear the enemy unit from the hex so you can call them in.



That's incorrect. The armor unit may enter on an adjacent hex. Set the CB1 Errata document where it states:

"The tank reinforcement can enter the map on road hex "to Breda" or by a nearby hex if this hex is occupied."
      
Rork
Member

User Pages
Posts: 50
Registered:
November 2006
Re:Questions Mon, 11 November 2013 22:10
Sgt Storm wrote on Mon, 11 November 2013 21:41

The armor unit may enter on an adjacent hex. Set the CB1 Errata document where it states:

"The tank reinforcement can enter the map on road hex "to Breda" or by a nearby hex if this hex is occupied."


Thank you, nice catch Smile. Just found the post on page 2 of the Campaign Book Vol 1 - Official Errata thread. I take it this also applies to the Unternehmen Niwi scenario and I should've added that said hexes can also be occupied by Axis units.

Is there a complete errata for CB1, because it seems a lot of clarifications are spread out in that thread (and in at least one other as well)?

[Updated on: Mon, 11 November 2013 22:53]

      
Rork
Member

User Pages
Posts: 50
Registered:
November 2006
Re:Questions Tue, 12 November 2013 08:41
What exactly is Mobile Artillery supposed to "simulate"? It can't be true light artillery, as it shouldn't have the same range and firepower. And if it's self-propelled artillery, then it should be treated as an armored unit - maybe less mobile, with shorter range and being hit on tank/grenade symbol.

[Updated on: Wed, 13 November 2013 20:00]

      
Zalamence
Senior Member
Bring Boys Back Home

User Pages
Posts: 107
Registered:
June 2010
Re:Questions Tue, 12 November 2013 09:45
deemao has compiled CB errata documents, here's a link to the thread where the files are located in the first post (latest versions)

http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?th=25289&start=0
      
Rork
Member

User Pages
Posts: 50
Registered:
November 2006
Re:Questions Tue, 12 November 2013 09:54
Zalamence wrote on Tue, 12 November 2013 10:45

deemao has compiled CB errata documents, here's a link to the thread where the files are located in the first post (latest versions)

http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?th=25289&start=0

Ah, many thanks. Me blind, I didn't check the rest of the forum since I assumed that such a thread should've been sticky.
      
Sgt Storm
Senior Member
Lieutenant

User Pages
Posts: 878
Registered:
December 2006
Re:Questions Wed, 13 November 2013 19:29
Rork wrote on Tue, 12 November 2013 02:41

What exactly is Light Artillery supposed to "simulate"? It can't be true light artillery, as it shouldn't have the same range and firepower. And if it's self-propelled artillery, then it should be treated as an armored unit - maybe less mobile, with shorter range and being hit on tank/grenade symbol.


There is no official Light Artillery unit that I am aware of. There is Mobile Artillery (MA).

I would be hard-pressed to say M44 "simulates" anything being as abstract as it is. IMO, there are not that many degrees of freedom to simulate anything accurately anyway.

I think MA could maybe represent several things. Generally, I think it represents self-propelled guns such as M7 Priest or Wespe. It could represent heavy mortars on an open top vehicle, maybe. Generally anything more mobile than towed artillery that needs time to unlimber and set up.

[Updated on: Wed, 13 November 2013 19:30]

      
Rork
Member

User Pages
Posts: 50
Registered:
November 2006
Re:Questions Wed, 13 November 2013 19:59
Sgt Storm wrote on Wed, 13 November 2013 20:29

There is no official Light Artillery unit that I am aware of. There is Mobile Artillery (MA).

My mistake, sorry, I will edit it after this reply. Of course, I was referring to mobile artillery, but was thinking about light artillery Embarassed .

Sgt Storm wrote on Wed, 13 November 2013 20:29

I would be hard-pressed to say M44 "simulates" anything being as abstract as it is. IMO, there are not that many degrees of freedom to simulate anything accurately anyway.

It is a... light simulation, but simulation it is imho. And it sometimes reproduces situations eerily close to real events (of course, up to a certain degree and it may all be in the eye of the beholder), but still it does so certainly better than a lot of other more, shall we say, serious wargames.
As for the degrees of freedom, I personally like the open rule system. With a bit of fiddling around, I'm fairly sure more realism could be added without overcomplicating things or upseting gameplay balance.

Sgt Storm wrote on Wed, 13 November 2013 20:29

I think MA could maybe represent several things. Generally, I think it represents self-propelled guns such as M7 Priest or Wespe. It could represent heavy mortars on an open top vehicle, maybe. Generally anything more mobile than towed artillery that needs time to unlimber and set up.

My thoughts exactly, which is why I find it odd that MA is not treated as a version of armored units (the way Tank Destroyers are), including shorter range, more emphasis on mobility and different vulnerabilites. Also, if one wants to be a purist, it should be different from airborne artillery units Razz.
      
Sgt Storm
Senior Member
Lieutenant

User Pages
Posts: 878
Registered:
December 2006
Re:Questions Wed, 13 November 2013 23:07
I don't think mobile arty should be treated as armor in any respect. They are more like arty than tanks and destroyers. They were employed like arty not tanks. Put simply, they are not direct-fire vehicles like tanks, tank destroyers or even assault guns.

But maybe the range could be tweaked, but really, what's the point? IMO, M44 is getting too tweaked.

As I said there are really not enough degrees of freedom to get worried about these subtle differences. By degrees of freedom I mean we have these to work with:

# of Dice rolled in attack
Dice hit: 6 sides only, with special hits on stars etc.
Range: not a whole lot of variation possible here, say from 4 to 6.
Terrain reduction

Compare this to a game like Conflict of Heroes in which there are numerical defense ratings and attack ratings, for armor and soft targets, with defense rated differently front and back. You can model anything.

But you are free to house rule anything you like. I just turn to games like CoH when I want weapon and unit simulations and M44 when I want an abstract game that is more about scenario-level historical simulation and (should be) less about unit-level details.



      
Rork
Member

User Pages
Posts: 50
Registered:
November 2006
Re:Questions Thu, 14 November 2013 23:11
Sgt Storm wrote on Thu, 14 November 2013 00:07

I don't think mobile arty should be treated as armor in any respect. They are more like arty than tanks and destroyers. They were employed like arty not tanks. Put simply, they are not direct-fire vehicles like tanks, tank destroyers or even assault guns.

No, I was referring to self-propelled artillery as compared to field artillery: shorter range, less firepower, more mobility, same vulnerabilities. Yup, there's enough here to play with, esp. if it means addressing the issue that in M44 arty is far more difficult to eliminate than tanks; actually, it's the most difficult unit to eliminate period, even when close assaulted Shocked .

Sgt Storm wrote on Thu, 14 November 2013 00:07

But maybe the range could be tweaked, but really, what's the point? IMO, M44 is getting too tweaked.

The point is to make the game less abstract without upsetting its simplicity and the fact that its rule system so easily allows that is a big incentive in the way of fiddling with it. Surely it's more rewarding than using painted miniatures and other cosmetic changes Wink .

Sgt Storm wrote on Thu, 14 November 2013 00:07

As I said there are really not enough degrees of freedom to get worried about these subtle differences. By degrees of freedom I mean we have these to work with:

# of Dice rolled in attack
Dice hit: 6 sides only, with special hits on stars etc.
Range: not a whole lot of variation possible here, say from 4 to 6.
Terrain reduction

Very nice concept here, I couldn't agree more. I would add the following:
- movement;
- vulnerabilities (according to ground, close assault, etc.);
- a lot of permutations when it comes to those 6 sides Razz .
It also comes to mind that if M44 would really be so abstract, then adding Special Early/Late War Weapons, planes, different figures and so on and so forth would be an unwanted complication. Imho, everything fits in surprisingly well and actually works and makes a difference. A few essential simple variables can produce totally unexpected behavior, while useless complexity can be boringly repetitive; I'd say M44 falls into the former category.

Sgt Storm wrote on Thu, 14 November 2013 00:07

Compare this to a game like Conflict of Heroes in which there are numerical defense ratings and attack ratings, for armor and soft targets, with defense rated differently front and back. You can model anything.

Sure, except for the fact that I could never find the time to actually finish such a game - that is if I got lucky in the first place and found someone willing to play it Laughing . It's a problem I've run into with Axis & Allies and Twilight Imperium, which are not so complex, they just require dedicated and passionate players - and I won't even mention Advanced Third Reich...

[Updated on: Thu, 14 November 2013 23:20]

      
Rork
Member

User Pages
Posts: 50
Registered:
November 2006
Re:Questions Thu, 14 November 2013 23:41
OK, new questions as we move deeper into Belgium:

Terrain 38 - Railroad tracks
1. How does Armor moves ALONG a railroad track?
2. Armor moving onto a railroad must stop; isn't that in direct contradiction with Road crossing a railroad plays as standard road? In fact, can someone please translate the second quote, I'm totally confused as to what it refers to Doubtful .

Hedgehogs
3. Take the following situation: Armor close assaults Infantry in hedgehogs and rolls a Flag (or more). Infantry chooses (or is forced to) retreat, Armor can't take ground since the hex vacated has a hedgehog on it, thereby losing the Armor Overrun - correct?
      
Aussie_Digger
Senior Member
Lieutenant

User Pages
Posts: 210
Registered:
March 2010
Re:Questions Fri, 15 November 2013 06:02
Rork wrote on Fri, 15 November 2013 08:11

OK, new questions as we move deeper into Belgium:

Terrain 38 - Railroad tracks
1. How does Armor moves ALONG a railroad track?
2. Armor moving onto a railroad must stop; isn't that in direct contradiction with Road crossing a railroad plays as standard road? In fact, can someone please translate the second quote, I'm totally confused as to what it refers to Doubtful .


It means that armour must stop every time it moves onto a rail hex but if that hex also has a road (rail crossing) then you ignore the rail and take into account the road instead

Rork wrote on Fri, 15 November 2013 08:11


Hedgehogs
3. Take the following situation: Armor close assaults Infantry in hedgehogs and rolls a Flag (or more). Infantry chooses (or is forced to) retreat, Armor can't take ground since the hex vacated has a hedgehog on it, thereby losing the Armor Overrun - correct?


Correct
      
Jeronimon
Senior Member
Brigadier

User Pages
Posts: 1004
Registered:
November 2007
Re:Questions Fri, 15 November 2013 06:13
Adding to Aussie Diggers answer: Reading the FAQ I understand that only when travelling along the road you can ignore the railroad.

So If you start on a hex not on the road and move onto the crossing you still have to stop.

If you start on the road and come to the crossing you can treat it as a road hex.
      
Rork
Member

User Pages
Posts: 50
Registered:
November 2006
Re:Questions Fri, 15 November 2013 08:51
Thank you both for the answers.
Still, curiosity persists: I can understand a tank slowing down in order to climb an enbankment, but why would it have any difficulty at all when moving along a railroad?
      
Aussie_Digger
Senior Member
Lieutenant

User Pages
Posts: 210
Registered:
March 2010
Re:Questions Fri, 15 November 2013 10:43
You have to remember its not just a tank but a group of tanks. Tanks don't travel on rail lines either, it would be very hard for them to balance and have any traction. With Memoir thus are abstractly represented. So the group of tanks moving along will probably be on both sides of the embankment and have to cross back and forward during their manoeuvres not to mention that they will not be in direct contact like they would be in the open so will be move disorganized so there fore need more time to sort themselves out.
      
Rork
Member

User Pages
Posts: 50
Registered:
November 2006
Re:Questions Sat, 07 December 2013 16:29
Having now finished the Polish campaign and the Fall Geld grand campaign, I'm back with some questions.

Unternehmen Fall Geld campaign
Heavy Tank Track: the rule mentions "enemy heavy tank units" and "Allied armor unit".
1. The Crossing of the Meuse campaign has an "armor unit [that] represents an AMD Panhard-178 unit (armored cars)" in the Combats in Stonne scenario. The grand campaign ends with the Dunkirk scenario which features a British tank unit. Do these units count on the Heavy Tank Track (armored car is not an enemy tank, but it is an armor unit; the Armor Track specifically points out to French tanks)?
2. The Panzer/Heavy Tank tracks show up in three out of four campaigns: do destroyed armor units add up on said tracks for the entire grand campaign or do they only count for each campaign only?

Does the Position Control rule still applies to the following situation?
Tank unit close assaults and eliminates enemy unit (which should count as final victory medal, but discards it), makes an Armor Overrun action, close assaults and eliminates a second enemy unit (which again should count as final victory medal, but again discards it) stationed on a Temporary Medal Objective, Takes Ground as a final action and claims the objective medal thereby ending the game.


And before moving on to Barbarossa, I need some clarifications.

1. Victory Events Rolls are cumulative between the three campaign and the two phases, correct?
Example 1: Axis player starts in Barbarossa Center, wins two battles, moves to South, wins first battle; prior to playing the second center scenario, he rolls 2 + 3 = 5 dice.
Example 2: Having finished the first phase with 4 wins and two losses, Axis player rolls at the start of the second phase 2 + 4 = 6 dice, while Allied player rols 2 + 2 = 4 dice.


2. There are three scenarios (Bug River, Smolensk and Russian Breakout) where the Axis player must win by a difference of 2/3 more medals, otherwise the Allied player wins. If the Axis player wins by a minimal margin, does this means that the medals still counts on the campaign sheet, but the campaign moves to the next scenario as if the Allied player won the scenario instead?

As a final note, is the Russian grand campaign supposed to become more and more punishing for the Germans even if they win all the scenarios?

[Updated on: Sun, 08 December 2013 10:49]

      
Zalamence
Senior Member
Bring Boys Back Home

User Pages
Posts: 107
Registered:
June 2010
Re:Questions Sun, 08 December 2013 11:20
Rork wrote on Sat, 07 December 2013 17:29

Does the Position Control rule still applies to the following situation?
Tank unit close assaults and eliminates enemy unit (which should count as final victory medal, but discards it), makes an Armor Overrun action, close assaults and eliminates a second enemy unit (which again should count as final victory medal, but again discards it) stationed on a Temporary Medal Objective, Takes Ground as a final action and claims the objective medal thereby ending the game.


Position Control allows you to discard medal only in case you instantly receive an objective medal by taking ground. So the answer is no. However, I personally would allow my opponent to try and go for the medal in that specific case.
      
Rork
Member

User Pages
Posts: 50
Registered:
November 2006
Re:Questions Sun, 08 December 2013 17:09
Zalamence wrote on Sun, 08 December 2013 12:20

Position Control allows you to discard medal only in case you instantly receive an objective medal by taking ground. So the answer is no. However, I personally would allow my opponent to try and go for the medal in that specific case.

I was under the impression that taking ground ENDS an ordered unit's turn, so it shouldn't matter when this happens as long as it happens. It's just a specific case with armor taking ground after two battles, so it shouldn't count. And Position Control doesn't specify instantly.

[Updated on: Sun, 08 December 2013 17:09]

      
rasmussen81
DoW Content Provider
Designer's Oath

User Pages
Posts: 7072
Registered:
July 2007
Re:Questions Sun, 08 December 2013 17:34
Rork wrote on Sun, 08 December 2013 20:09

Zalamence wrote on Sun, 08 December 2013 12:20

Position Control allows you to discard medal only in case you instantly receive an objective medal by taking ground. So the answer is no. However, I personally would allow my opponent to try and go for the medal in that specific case.

I was under the impression that taking ground ENDS an ordered unit's turn, so it shouldn't matter when this happens as long as it happens. It's just a specific case with armor taking ground after two battles, so it shouldn't count. And Position Control doesn't specify instantly.


No, the Position Control specifies that it must be the last medal of the game and that medal MUST come from an Objective hex, not from another attack. Normally the game ends immediately when the last medal is won. With this new rule a player could decline the medal from the kill and instead Take Ground and use the objective medal.

[Updated on: Sun, 08 December 2013 17:35]

      
stevens
Senior Member
Memoir '44 Online Betatester

User Pages
Posts: 3013
Registered:
February 2007
Re:Questions Sun, 08 December 2013 19:44
stevens wrote on Sun, 08 December 2013 13:31

Rork wrote on Sun, 08 December 2013 11:33

Having just finished the Fall Geld grand campaign, here are a few points that I'm not entirely clear about (with apologies for some things that are not quite directly related to the CB1

General question
Does the Position Control rule still applies to the following situation?
Tank unit close assaults and eliminates enemy unit (which should count as final victory medal, but discards it), makes an Armor Overrun action, close assaults and eliminates a second enemy unit (which again should count as final victory medal, but again discards it) stationed on a Temporary Medal Objective, Takes Ground as a final action and claims the objective medal thereby ending the game.



It is quite obvious from your question that you have not clearly read the POSITION CONTROL RULE (CB2 p.12):
Quote:

When Position control rules are in effect, a player that eliminates an enemy unit in close assault may choose to discard the medal obtained for eliminating that unit and Take Ground instead. Such a move is only permitted if the enemy unit was on an objective medal and taking this objective ends the game.


Discarding a game ending unit (medal) is only permitted if the unit you discarded was on an objective hex and you are able to take ground and immediately capture the objective hex. You are not permitted to arbitrarily discard medals until you get the one you want. The unit medal you discard must be on the same hex with an objective medal.

[Updated on: Sun, 08 December 2013 19:45]

      
Rork
Member

User Pages
Posts: 50
Registered:
November 2006
Re:Questions Wed, 11 December 2013 01:05
Thanks for the clarification. Guess I forgot to check Post Notification because I didn't knew there was another reply here.

What about the rest of the questions? Moving them to the CB1 thread doesn't seem to have helped much, as there were no answers... yet.

[Updated on: Wed, 11 December 2013 01:05]

      
Pages (2): [1  2  >  » ]     
Previous Topic:Operation Compass
Next Topic:Italian Cavalry
Goto Forum: