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Sysyphus - Pommard
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Masters Tournament 2p USA 2014 Fri, 03 January 2014 23:46
It is still a project to be finalized, but we thought it'd better to make an annoucement before League starts.

As an initiative (based on an idea from DrakeStorm, thanks!) to gather the 4 best players in the 2014 tournaments, we would like to introduce the Most Valuable Player 2014 Final Four.

When ?
It would be held in December 2014 in parallel to the NC finals.
We would bring 2014 to a close with intense competition, with the best teams in NC, and cherry on the cake, the best players of the year.

Who ?
  • The winner of the League, Division A.
  • The winner of SPWC
  • Highest ranked in TELO at the end of the year. (the minimum number of matches played in 2014 still to be determined)
  • A 4th still to be determined.
    (ideas : NC MVP designated by captains, 2nd highest TELO, previous MVP -which does not quite work for a first edition-)

    Format
    Still to be determined. Knock-out bo11 ?
    Any input is more than welcome !

    Enjoy all the tournament organized in 2014, and may the best be the MVP 2014 !

    [Updated on: Mon, 06 January 2014 23:44]

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    Mr Bean
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    Re:Most Valuable Player 2014 Sat, 04 January 2014 12:38
    You would probably also need to decide what happens if 2 (or 3) of these 4 are the same player. If all 4 are the same we should have our winner Cool , but if League A and SPWC are won by same player, does no 2 of League or no 2 of SPWC get the vacant spot or do you just play with 3?
          
    ATN Drake
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    Re:Most Valuable Player 2014 Sun, 05 January 2014 00:17
    Mr Bean wrote on Sat, 04 January 2014 03:38

    You would probably also need to decide what happens if 2 (or 3) of these 4 are the same player. If all 4 are the same we should have our winner Cool , but if League A and SPWC are won by same player, does no 2 of League or no 2 of SPWC get the vacant spot or do you just play with 3?


    My current idea is that the 2nd place person would get the spot if the 1st place person didn't want to play, but after that it would go to TELO (not to 3rd place finishers).

    If the same person wins League and SPWC, then the extra spot would goto TELO.

    For the first year there is no previous MVP winner so there would be an extra spot to fill as Sys mentions above.

    As to the format. I'd like to see a mini round robin which would take 3 weeks. But a Single Elimination would only take 2 weeks, so might be better.

    Still lots of time to finalize everything, but mentioning it now so any Tops that want a chance to play in the event join League to try to get that spot.



    [Updated on: Sun, 05 January 2014 00:19]

          
    onyx puffin
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    Re:Most Valuable Player 2014 Mon, 06 January 2014 18:30
    FAULTY LOGIC HERE.

    So this project idea may be interesting but I am sorry, the name is POOR, and the logic flawed.

    Let me begin with the name: Most Valuable Player (MVP). What makes someone a MVP? Would a player on either my Nation's Cup team or my FUSION Cup team who chooses to play on my team (neither are an elite team, mind you) but this player carries our team to the play-offs. Would he/she be an MVP? Is that better than being on an elitist team of top 20 players who wins the tournament?
    Would this supposed Final Four have space for such an MVP?
    MY POINT: please do not penalize better players who choose to play with people like myself, perhaps a top 100 player, but certainly not a top 20 player!


    Winning the SPWC is an individual thing. How is that an MVP?
    Also, are we now saying winning division A of NEW league is an ultimate thing? Then right there you have shortchanged the majority of the community as they have no shot at being that person for any year in consideration. Which makes lucullupus pointed story in the other thread even more interesting


    Please note, I am not against the idea proposed of trying something to honor great players of the past year. BUT I strongly caution that it avoid becoming Elitist Player of the Year.

    Figure out a different name for such an event, and try to be sensitive to who will play in this event that the event does not become a duplicate of the conversation and issues made in the NEW league and question of, "Oooh, who is in division A of League?"

    A different name like they use in golf, 'Tournament of Champions' where you have to qualify and they have a limit on number of players involved. Like 16, and show the system whereby one qualifies for the Tournament of Champions. My suggestion is: Each champion qualifies. Then there are others added in as duplicates occur or go to 2nd place type people when players cannot play for injury/scheduling issues.

    [Updated on: Mon, 06 January 2014 19:46]

          
    ACP Miguel
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    Re:Most Valuable Player 2014 Mon, 06 January 2014 19:13
    Name it Masters - Like in Tennis. i think the idea was to have a competition between those who were stronger in the hardest competitions of the season.
          
    GenuineFauxFarm
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    Re:Most Valuable Player 2014 Mon, 06 January 2014 19:30
    I'm not sure why you would want something more to compete with NC finals.

    Onyx's post actually prompted me to finally say something.

    In my mind, I wonder about this because I don't see why we think we need to create another way to try to define the 'top players' for a given year. Or, worse yet, another way for people to argue about whether the ranking is accurate or not. But, I have to realize that this is enjoyable for some, so I'm willing to let that point go.

    I also wonder how excited anyone is going to get about this? After all, if a player wins SPWC or League, that is a reward in and of itself. It's not really a competition to see who gets to play in this proposed final match. I suppose you might see it as a way to reward the leading TELO ranked individual. But, if that's what this is about, then run a final four of the top 4 TELO rankings and be done with it.

    I'm not really sure why I am responding to this. I don't expect to ever participate in this as I doubt I'll ever be motivated enough.
          
    ATN Drake
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    Re:Most Valuable Player 2014 Mon, 06 January 2014 23:17
    I did not come up with the name. I think MVP was used by Sys because it was short and fit onto the schedule better. We can call it the 2P USA Masters Tournament from now on.

    And it is Elitist I guess. Most competitions/sports want to crown a champion or determine who the best player is. Over the years there have been many forum posts on who is the best, how the DoW ELO is totally flawed, etc. Up till now, no one event really determined who the best player of the year was. If you did well in NC it could just be from easy match ups, if you won Division A in league it might be because all the best players weren't playing in it, and if you won SPWC it might just be luck of the single elimination format.

    My main goal was to not force players to play in any one particular event. You shouldn't have to play in League to be considered the best, or any other one event. [Most Top players are signed up for the New League, but a few aren't, and if they won SPWC or had the highest TELO, they could still be crowned best player for the year].

    I have virtually no chance of being in this event, but I still think it is a good idea.

          
    Sysyphus - Pommard
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    Re:Most Valuable Player 2014 Mon, 06 January 2014 23:49
    Yes,

    It's just a cultural difference in the meaning.

    MVP is also used in France, but it's used to describe the best individual player in a League or in a tournament, ( not like in the US where it describes the player that adds the most value to his/her team.
    Changed to masters then.
          
    Sysyphus - Pommard
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    Re:Most Valuable Player 2014 Sat, 11 October 2014 00:14
    Talking about dust in a previous thread, here's some more.

    Masters Tournament will gather :

    1. Winner of League, Division A : Truckerteller
    2. Winner of SPWC : TuS Tenniskasi
    3. Best NC player.

    Board will submit a short list of players (5 to 8, could be more if needed) who recorded remarkable performances during NC. Individual records and opponent's strength will be taken into account. Captains will be then vote for their top 3.
    Top 3 will respectively receive 3-2-1 point(s). The player receiving the most points from NC captains will be proclaimed "Best NC player".
    4. Best TELO player (discarding the 3 previous players listed).

    If Truck or Kasi happens to be the "Best NC player", we will take the number 2 in the voting, or the number 3 if needed.


    Format of the tournament :
    4-player Round Robin :
    A vs B
    C vs D
    A vs C
    B vs D
    A vs D
    B vs C

    Match : 10 games, 5 starts each.
    Start : First game random, then alternate.
    Observation mode : open
    Points counted League-style : 1 point for each game won, 0.5 point for a tie.
    We add a 2-point bonus for a match won or a 1-point bonus for a tie.
    Tie-breaker : Points won then head-to-head result.

    If there's an overall tie, then I think 2 players can be proclaimed winner.


    [Updated on: Sat, 11 October 2014 00:15]

          
    Hecki
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    Re:Most Valuable Player 2014 Sat, 11 October 2014 13:04
    I agree with Onyx and GFF: We have League, we have NC, we have SPWC. That should be enough.
          
    AGT-Schachus
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    Re:Most Valuable Player 2014 Sat, 11 October 2014 13:26
    LMT Hecki schrieb am Sat, 11 October 2014 13:04

    I agree with Onyx and GFF: We have League, we have NC, we have SPWC. That should be enough.


    The problem is not, that it is not enough.

    The problem that should be solved is, that it is too much to clearly give an answer to the question
    "who is the best TTR player this year?"
          
    SuperPello
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    Re:Masters Tournament 2p USA 2014 Sat, 11 October 2014 15:30
    Some thoughts:

    - A new tournament in parallel with NC finals. For 4 players, maybe someone in both event. Very interesting for 10 people, maybe 20.

    - Reading the thread I understand that the best TTR player must be the best in USA 2p . And/Or in most of cases won something playing USA 2p .
    In my opinion in this case we have already the best, he won the League Usa 2p , Division A. 15 matches, 90 games Vs the best USA 2p players. For me is enough to say that this year he is the best in USA 2p.

    - So I took some minutes for deciding who is the TTR MVP. In my opinion the best player of TTR is the stronger with all the maps , in 2p and in multi . Because TTR is not only USA map, even if is the most played. So I need an AAT 2p + AAT multi.

          
    Knockando
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    Re:Masters Tournament 2p USA 2014 Sat, 11 October 2014 15:59
    We talked about that in january 2014 : why adding new comments now ? Shocked Shocked
          
    Sysyphus - Pommard
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    Re:Most Valuable Player 2014 Sat, 11 October 2014 16:40
    1. This is a tournament that involves only 4 players. That should be manageable.
    In the same time, we are making an effort to reduce the length of multi-tournaments and AAT seemed to take its last breath.

    2. It is part of an effort to promote the highest level of play.
    We offer players to play a more competitive format than a 6-game match in between 2 other matches.
    Tennis players play tournaments the whole year, and they don't seem to get tired of challenging each other.It interests only 4 players in the end, but it should interest any player signing-up in a 2p USA tournament = 150 players.
    And I consider the Masters only as an experiment for the time-being.

    3. Best TTR player ?
    Aaah, it has been a long debate.
    Tournaments started on USA map 2p, then Euro map 2er. Multi US found its way in 2009 with AAT and SMC. Multi Euro and 2er Asia have only been part of the calendar for a year.
    It seems pretty logical that the US 2p best players have gotten the most recognition online, just because of the competitiveness of the format.

    Is it better to make each TTR map/mode grow stronger individually and improve the overall ranking year after year ?
    Or is better to mix everything in together ?
    A mixed-map multiplayer tournament was an offer, and it found 0 support in the forum. AAT has never attracted many players probably for that reason.
    In track, each athlete gets recognition for their performance in their own specialty. Decathletes have always gotten less recognition that the best 100m sprinter.
    The best ski-jumper or the best nordic skier have always gotten more recognition that the best nordic combined skier.

    It has always been our goal to promote alternative maps/mode (creation of AMC, multi euro, Fusion and now multi Asia) and I believe that it does not prevent from having a more competitive 2p US format.
    In parallel, it is our job to promote the overall ranking better, and to make it stronger and more meaningful. It could look like the Crystal globe in Alpine Ski.

    If you have any strong interest in those matters (I agree that it's an interesting discussion), I'll soon open a thread that will give a chance to contribute more.

    [Updated on: Sat, 11 October 2014 17:10]

          
    Qorlas
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    Re:Masters Tournament 2p USA 2014 Sat, 11 October 2014 18:39
    I would add just a thought:

    to keep AAT tournament alive people should sign up more to play it or ask to move it in another period of the year if they cannot play it in the Summer.

    In the last years always the same 12-15 players played it.
          
    RUS Lexx
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    Re:Masters Tournament 2p USA 2014 Sat, 11 October 2014 23:19
    I'd be interested in watching top players again if I had time. Really don't understand why someone would oppose this idea
          
    AAA_dea1
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    Re:Masters Tournament 2p USA 2014 Sun, 12 October 2014 00:20
    Latest TR News ****** Latest TTR News ******* Latest TTR News ***

    Watching tournament matches is not obligatory (unless you enjoy silly bets of course Wink )

    If you don't have time to watch the games of the Masters or are just not interested, you don't need a written excuse from your parents and you will not be fined any penalty points.

    Conclusion:
    Unless you are (or expect to be) one of the 4 participants, you don't need to worry.
    If you worry that you might qualify but don't want to, I can show you how to avoid it.
          
    GenuineFauxFarm
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    Re:Masters Tournament 2p USA 2014 Sun, 12 October 2014 04:02
    If four players who feel they are top four want, they can have a tourney. If there is some way they want to decide who the four participants are - then fine. Hold a tourney.

    It won't take much time unless they aren't motivated to play. It need not delay any other event. Those who think they want to watch the games can watch the games.

    I still think what we have is sufficient to identify the top player(s) and provide them with adequate glory and praise. But, if those top players feel they have a score to settle with each other, go to it.

    While I am at it. I think I will hold a tourney with 3 other players who think they play about as well or poorly as I do. That way we can determine once and for all (or at least during that tourney) which of us is the best of all the "sort of good, but sort of not good" players. Wink


    Rob
    GFF
          
    ATN Drake
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    Re:Masters Tournament 2p USA 2014 Sun, 12 October 2014 04:58
    So who is the best player (2P USA)?

    Is it Truck because he won league? Is it Kasi because he won SPWC? Or Angel with highest TELO? Or someone else?

    Unless every top player plays in League, I think this master's tournament is the best way to settle it. Even if there isn't a real "need" for it, it would be nice to watch the best of the best play against each other.

    This could be an opportunity to record the matches and host them somewhere so you don't have to be there live to watch it (also would be nice to be able to fast forward through the slow parts.. i.e. drawing up to 40 cards, etc.).


          
    SuperPello
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    Re:Masters Tournament 2p USA 2014 Sun, 12 October 2014 10:20
    Well, the LAST thing I wanted with my thoughts is to flame the discussion. I thank was a good thing offer another point of view but I see was taken only the criticism of the contribution. It's the second time that it happens in a short time so definitely I must learn to be more clear when I write. Sorry again.

    About MVP TTR , the discussion has already turned towards what just saying Drake with the last comment: So who is the best player (2P USA)? Is it Truck because he won league? Is it Kasi because he won SPWC? Or Angel with highest TELO? Or someone else? . I already wrote what I think but I agree with these questions too. So the sense of my contribution in my opinion was understood.

    About new tournament creation and how many players are interested, we are a bit far. And sorry again for flaming, not my will.
    My point of view is the point of view of a worker, husband, father of 3 children and organizer of many fanta games with friends. So the sense was "think about the risk of wasting time and resouces on a thing that could interest few people". That's it. If I'm wrong, I'm happy. But I'm sorry if Sysy think that I want to belittle the organization of the events. Not my will.

    Marco
          
    Sysyphus - Pommard
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    Re:Masters Tournament 2p USA 2014 Sun, 12 October 2014 17:08
    You do not flame the discussion, I just take time to explain the reasoning because we always try to be consistent in our proposal. Contributions, criticisms are more than welcome!

    [Updated on: Sun, 12 October 2014 17:08]

          
        
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