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questioneer
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M44 questions Sun, 13 April 2014 19:26
First of all its a low-down dirty shame that DoW does not reprint the Air Pack or make a second-edition of this. There is no good reason I've heard of that exists- just plain dumb...by the way while I'm on that rant...hope they make a minor nations army pack with Italians infantry and such...long overdue...and they need to sell the Breakthrough decks separate from the WW exp...ok anyway

My question...with the Air Pack...does anyone have any Air Pack variant rules???

I think that the Air Check roll is a little harsh.

Right now we use the Tiger tank rule for the planes...
roll dice...any grenades are rolled again...if at least one grenade is rolled then it is a hit. This make the planes a little stronger than Tigers and worth using in the game.
      
sam1812
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Re:M44 questions Sun, 13 April 2014 20:39
questioneer wrote on Sun, 13 April 2014 13:26

First of all its a low-down dirty shame that DoW does not reprint the Air Pack or make a second-edition of this. There is no good reason I've heard of that exists- just plain dumb...by the way while I'm on that rant

Pardon my curiosity, but do you talk about people to their face this way, too?
Quote:

...hope they make a minor nations army pack with Italians infantry and such...long overdue...and they need to sell the Breakthrough decks separate from the WW exp...ok anyway

My question...with the Air Pack...does anyone have any Air Pack variant rules???

Look at 50th's User Page.
Quote:

I think that the Air Check roll is a little harsh.

It's supposed to be risky. Well over 300,000 planes were destroyed in WW2.
Quote:

Right now we use the Tiger tank rule for the planes...
roll dice...any grenades are rolled again...if at least one grenade is rolled then it is a hit. This make the planes a little stronger than Tigers and worth using in the game.


      
questioneer
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Re:M44 questions Sun, 13 April 2014 23:26
sam1812 wrote on Sun, 13 April 2014 14:39

questioneer wrote on Sun, 13 April 2014 13:26

First of all its a low-down dirty shame that DoW does not reprint the Air Pack or make a second-edition of this. There is no good reason I've heard of that exists- just plain dumb...by the way while I'm on that rant

Pardon my curiosity, but do you talk about people to their face this way, too?
Quote:

...hope they make a minor nations army pack with Italians infantry and such...long overdue...and they need to sell the Breakthrough decks separate from the WW exp...ok anyway

My question...with the Air Pack...does anyone have any Air Pack variant rules???

Look at 50th's User Page.
Quote:

I think that the Air Check roll is a little harsh.

It's supposed to be risky. Well over 300,000 planes were destroyed in WW2.
Quote:

Right now we use the Tiger tank rule for the planes...
roll dice...any grenades are rolled again...if at least one grenade is rolled then it is a hit. This make the planes a little stronger than Tigers and worth using in the game.





1. Do I talk to people to their face that way- rarely, but in this case I would. Makes no sense to me.

2. Already checked 50th's page- no air variants that I see of- unless I missed it.???

3. So you're telling me that 1/6 of all planes crashed in WW2 bc they couldn't get off the carrier??? Just as one example. Just curious here.

4. Where is the best place to buy 1/144 scale (so I've heard this is the scale of the planes in the Air Pack, true???) planes like the ones in the Air Pack???
      
50th
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Re:M44 questions Sun, 13 April 2014 23:30
questioneer wrote on Sun, 13 April 2014 16:26

sam1812 wrote on Sun, 13 April 2014 14:39

questioneer wrote on Sun, 13 April 2014 13:26

First of all its a low-down dirty shame that DoW does not reprint the Air Pack or make a second-edition of this. There is no good reason I've heard of that exists- just plain dumb...by the way while I'm on that rant

Pardon my curiosity, but do you talk about people to their face this way, too?
Quote:

...hope they make a minor nations army pack with Italians infantry and such...long overdue...and they need to sell the Breakthrough decks separate from the WW exp...ok anyway

My question...with the Air Pack...does anyone have any Air Pack variant rules???

Look at 50th's User Page.
Quote:

I think that the Air Check roll is a little harsh.

It's supposed to be risky. Well over 300,000 planes were destroyed in WW2.
Quote:

Right now we use the Tiger tank rule for the planes...
roll dice...any grenades are rolled again...if at least one grenade is rolled then it is a hit. This make the planes a little stronger than Tigers and worth using in the game.





1. Do I talk to people to their face that way- rarely, but in this case I would. Makes no sense to me.

2. Already checked 50th's page- no air variants that I see of- unless I missed it.???

3. So you're telling me that 1/6 of all planes crashed in WW2 bc they couldn't get off the carrier??? Just as one example. Just curious here.

4. Where is the best place to buy 1/144 scale (so I've heard this is the scale of the planes in the Air Pack, true???) planes like the ones in the Air Pack???



YEP,YOU MISSED IT! My air rules, available on my user page, or here:
http://cdn.daysofwonder.com/uploads/userpages/272628/_6025.p df
      
questioneer
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Re:M44 questions Mon, 14 April 2014 01:51
Thanks 50th, I did miss it, I actually thought you were someone else- I forget his name- hes's got variant rules too.

I'll try these...The more I read the Air Pack rules, the more I think that its really overcomplicated.

Strafing is already done in the base game using Air Power, and if I want more of that I just need to add more Air Power cards via buying a couple $5 decks- simple.

Ground Support and Ground Interdiction is really done through other tactic cards and special units

Kamikazee is cool, Recon and Rescue are meh at best.

Acutally, one can just use the Air Power/Air Sortie cards that come in the $5 base deck to do any of these actions if they want- don't have to worry about air check rolls, or your planes being taken out and airfields and such- really unnecessary.

I think I would just add a couple more Air Sortie/Air Power cards to the deck and house rule those special rules in. No real need for the minis and their cumbersome position on the actual board. You can actually make it a lot more simple doing all the things the planes without the hassle of them on the board.

Besides tanks move at 3 and planes at 4. Wow! Tanks must have been really fast back then! Might as well put wings on the tanks! Planes should move at 6 spaces really and at that you really don't need them on the board bc they just fly across it which is what Air Power does anyway.

Hmmm...I just might have convinced myself to put my Air Pack up for sale.
      
Sgt Storm
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Re:M44 questions Mon, 14 April 2014 01:55
Okay so DOW is dumb for not reprinting the Air Pack, but you already have the air pack and you don't like the air rules.

You are apparently very hard to please.
      
questioneer
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Re:M44 questions Mon, 14 April 2014 02:21
Sgt Storm wrote on Sun, 13 April 2014 19:55

Okay so DOW is dumb for not reprinting the Air Pack, but you already have the air pack and you don't like the air rules.

You are apparently very hard to please.


Sorry, I'm going emo on this issue a bit. I'm starting to come full circle and trying to understand why DoW didn't reprint the thing- now as I'm going through the rules- I'm starting to get it. I'm only really valuing the Air Pack bc its out of print NOT for what it brings to the table as far as game play.

Now I see why they made it PDF- bc the actual unit on the board and its cumbersome movements are fiddly and you can actually apply the best of the the Air Rules w/o having the pieces on the board!!! Maybe this is why Richard Borg went sour on the Air Pack (so I've heard anyway).

I'm trying to talk myself into selling it bc its literally $200 on my shelf for an expansion that is really not needed.

Sorry DoW- your not dumb like I thought- I'm starting to get it now. Sincere apologies.

[Updated on: Mon, 14 April 2014 02:23]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:M44 questions Mon, 14 April 2014 05:16
questioneer wrote on Sun, 13 April 2014 17:21

Sgt Storm wrote on Sun, 13 April 2014 19:55

Okay so DOW is dumb for not reprinting the Air Pack, but you already have the air pack and you don't like the air rules.

You are apparently very hard to please.


Sorry, I'm going emo on this issue a bit. I'm starting to come full circle and trying to understand why DoW didn't reprint the thing- now as I'm going through the rules- I'm starting to get it. I'm only really valuing the Air Pack bc its out of print NOT for what it brings to the table as far as game play.

Now I see why they made it PDF- bc the actual unit on the board and its cumbersome movements are fiddly and you can actually apply the best of the the Air Rules w/o having the pieces on the board!!! Maybe this is why Richard Borg went sour on the Air Pack (so I've heard anyway).

I'm trying to talk myself into selling it bc its literally $200 on my shelf for an expansion that is really not needed.

Sorry DoW- your not dumb like I thought- I'm starting to get it now. Sincere apologies.



Richard Borg did not go sour on the Air Pack. There are several very good (and logical reasons) why DoW has not and probably will not reprint this expansion:

1) The cost of materials went up world-wide, so DoW could not produce the expansion for the same price point.

2) The Air Pack ended up not being popular enough to warrant a reprint. It is the most complex expansion and like you, people were sometimes confused by the rules and wrote them off. Personally, I like the Air Rules as is, but not everyone agrees with me.

3) They were able to offer a majority of the expansion online: the rule book and scenarios as a PDF, the Summary Cards in the Commpendium, and the tiles in other expansions. The only thing not available is the planes, and those can be replaced with after-market tiems quite easily.
      
Sgt Storm
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Re:M44 questions Mon, 14 April 2014 05:29
I'm pretty sure the reason the Air Pack has not been reprinted is purely to do with lack of a profitable return on investment and nothing else, as it should be. I'm sure if there were decent profit margins, then a reprint would be a no-brainier, unless of course there are future plans for a replacement, which is highly doubtful.

As it stands, I find the air rules to be pretty simple and abstract. When I need to sate the urge for flying plastic planes around, with some purpose, these rules are sufficient for me. I'm not deluded into thinking that Memoir is the answer to all gaming. It fits the abstract war gaming niche quite well (and the Command & Colors games do also), but has "fiddly" rules all over the place as a result. I don't think Air Rules are any less bizarre than say rules for Tank Destroyers, Mortars, Half tracks, Italian army, artillery etc. Despite these crazy abstractions, the game is a lot of fun. I turn to [other] war games when I want rules to make more "sense."

[Updated on: Mon, 14 April 2014 05:30]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:M44 questions Mon, 14 April 2014 05:48
Sgt Storm wrote on Sun, 13 April 2014 20:29

I'm pretty sure the reason the Air Pack has not been reprinted is purely to do with lack of a profitable return on investment and nothing else, as it should be. I'm sure if there were decent profit margins, then a reprint would be a no-brainier, unless of course there are future plans for a replacement, which is highly doubtful.


If this isn't what I said it's what I meant. The cost of materials went up and there was already a pretty low interest in the expansion because some people didn't like it. I don't think there would have been a profitable return because the price would have had to go up and the demand is relatively low. Ergo, no reprint.

Memoir '44 is indeed an abstract game and certainly has its quirks. It's not for everyone (and not all expansions are for everyone) but I find it to be a lot of fun. Cool
      
General Slim
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Re:M44 questions Mon, 14 April 2014 08:40
rasmussen81 wrote on Mon, 14 April 2014 04:48

Sgt Storm wrote on Sun, 13 April 2014 20:29

I'm pretty sure the reason the Air Pack has not been reprinted is purely to do with lack of a profitable return on investment and nothing else, as it should be. I'm sure if there were decent profit margins, then a reprint would be a no-brainier, unless of course there are future plans for a replacement, which is highly doubtful.


If this isn't what I said it's what I meant. The cost of materials went up and there was already a pretty low interest in the expansion because some people didn't like it. I don't think there would have been a profitable return because the price would have had to go up and the demand is relatively low. Ergo, no reprint.

Memoir '44 is indeed an abstract game and certainly has its quirks. It's not for everyone (and not all expansions are for everyone) but I find it to be a lot of fun. Cool


Yeah - It's always been one of my biggest regrets that I didn't buy the air pack straight away, but thinking about it now, I've decided that i should be able to improvise it anyway (i downloaded the scenarios and rules book the other day), so if that works i can forgive DOW Very Happy !
      
Antoi
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Re:M44 questions Mon, 14 April 2014 14:43
rasmussen81 wrote on Mon, 14 April 2014 05:16




2) The Air Pack ended up not being popular enough to warrant a reprint. It is the most complex expansion and like you, people were sometimes confused by the rules and wrote them off. Personally, I like the Air Rules as is, but not everyone agrees with me.



I'n not one of them Smile I love the airpack and airrules. Mainly because of two reasons:
1: The rules are quite different from other rules in the game. Aircheck for example makes you think every turn if you want to keep your plain airborn.
2: Although the rules make a nice addition, It doensn't alter the game alot. So focus stays on the ground battles.

[Updated on: Mon, 14 April 2014 20:17]

      
Burdie Smith
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Re:M44 questions Mon, 14 April 2014 15:47
Antoi wrote on Mon, 14 April 2014 14:43

rasmussen81 wrote on Mon, 14 April 2014 05:16




2) The Air Pack ended up not being popular enough to warrant a reprint. It is the most complex expansion and like you, people were sometimes confused by the rules and wrote them off. Personally, I like the Air Rules as is, but not everyone agrees with me.



I'n not one of them Smile I love the airpack and airrules. Mainly because of two reasons:
1: The rules are quite different from other rules in the game. Aircheck for example makes you every turn if you want to keep your plain airborn.
2: Although the rules make a nice addition, It doensn't alter the game alot. So focus stays on the ground battles.




I totally agree with the pro airpack fans! It's a must have expansion. I try to use it everytime it's possible and historicly defendable. Yes the impact of the airplanes is big and they easily hit targets but remember that that was the case. The Falaise Pocket in 1944 for instance was simple target practice for the allies and a catastrophe for the axis. I remember my grandfather telling me that the stuka's in 1940 were a nightmare and that the allied infantry units did nothing else than trying to get cover while wondering (hoping and begging) were the allied planes were.
The air check totally makes sense to me either. The more hostile units around your plane, the more chance that you can get hit. If there's an enemy airplane the risk is even getting bigger.
Really, try it out with planes and you will see, it gives the game an extra dimension!
And if you're willing to sell your example, I think many fans will love to buy it from you, questioneer, but I would re-consider it if I was you!

Greetings

[Updated on: Mon, 14 April 2014 15:49]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:M44 questions Mon, 14 April 2014 17:08
I agree that the Air Pack was fun. I'm certainly a big fan and I love using the Air Rules, but I remember when it first came out it wasn't as popular as some of the other expansions have been. The lack of excitement, combined with the increased cost of producing it means that we aren't likely to see a reprint.
      
questioneer
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Re:M44 questions Tue, 15 April 2014 03:44
Thank you gentlemen,

You've calmed my nerves about this pack. I should keep this and I will. I'm gonna let it grow on me and continue to try it out...besides 60+ scenarios is a lot to give up. Also, I've recently found a few hobby model places online that have the same model scales (except Storch which I will just replace with the Italian C.202). I'm going to buy a few and supplement them, pimp my Air pack and triple it so I can try it with Overlord. 3 planes a side should be pretty interesting. Thanks for let me see the "bright side".
      
montrealmovil
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Re:M44 questions Wed, 16 April 2014 01:43
As Alexis Beuve (Praxeo) says in "La guide tactique et stratégique", playing M44 without the Air Pack is like playing "Memoir 1917" and not Memoir 44. Very Happy I got my planes at Amazon and downloaded the rules from DOW. It's not big deal if you really want to get the full experience. I just wonder when M44 will allow Air Rules on M44 online. That would be veeeeery nice Rolling Eyes
      
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Re:M44 questions Wed, 16 April 2014 05:46
montrealmovil wrote on Tue, 15 April 2014 19:13

As Alexis Beuve (Praxeo) says in "La guide tactique et stratégique", playing M44 without the Air Pack is like playing "Memoir 1917" and not Memoir 44.


I would love to use that as signature!
      
50th
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Re:M44 questions Thu, 17 April 2014 14:22
I am a big fan of the airpack, just not the rules system. I use air rules whenever I can. If you missed the airpack, just get yourself some 1:144 airplane miniatures and download either the "official" rules, or my rules. I prefer my rules where ground units can actually shoot at attacking air units. And where you can attack bridges, rail and road hexes.

Razz Laughing
      
blagmasterg
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Re:M44 questions Thu, 17 April 2014 17:50
montrealmovil wrote on Wed, 16 April 2014 00:43

As Alexis Beuve (Praxeo) says in "La guide tactique et stratégique", playing M44 without the Air Pack is like playing "Memoir 1917" and not Memoir 44. Very Happy I got my planes at Amazon and downloaded the rules from DOW. It's not big deal if you really want to get the full experience. I just wonder when M44 will allow Air Rules on M44 online. That would be veeeeery nice Rolling Eyes


On that topic - when is the English translation of that book actually coming out? I've been on tenterhooks for what feels like forever now...
      
Major Duncan
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Re:M44 questions Thu, 17 April 2014 18:15
I have everything for M44 except the air pack and the duffle bag. Not bothered about getting it either. It seems overly complicated for a simple tanks and little men battle game.

I just use the air sortie cards as extra airpower cards and adjust the dice rolled for the time period I am playing.

I would not buy it if it was reprinted.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:M44 questions Thu, 17 April 2014 21:56
blagmasterg wrote on Thu, 17 April 2014 08:50

montrealmovil wrote on Wed, 16 April 2014 00:43

As Alexis Beuve (Praxeo) says in "La guide tactique et stratégique", playing M44 without the Air Pack is like playing "Memoir 1917" and not Memoir 44. Very Happy I got my planes at Amazon and downloaded the rules from DOW. It's not big deal if you really want to get the full experience. I just wonder when M44 will allow Air Rules on M44 online. That would be veeeeery nice Rolling Eyes


On that topic - when is the English translation of that book actually coming out? I've been on tenterhooks for what feels like forever now...


A while back the Author said it was 75% done. I'm sure DoW will be happy to announce it as soon as it's ready. Sorry, not much help! Very Happy
      
blagmasterg
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Re:M44 questions Fri, 18 April 2014 14:58
That's ok Rasmussen, I know how these things go. Just impatient to add it to my collection is all. I did consider trying to master French but I'm too lazy and that's time I could be using to play Memoir Razz
      
david5272
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Re:M44 questions Fri, 25 April 2014 15:56
I need to get back in M44, been too long. like the new expansion coming out.
      
sam1812
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Re:M44 questions Fri, 25 April 2014 23:51
Hey, Dave - come down to WBC in August, and you'll get a chance to play it in its full glory.

Sam
      
francaises_libres
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Re:M44 questions Wed, 30 April 2014 20:47
questioneer wrote on Sun, 13 April 2014 13:26

.by the way while I'm on that rant...hope they make a minor nations army pack with Italians infantry and such...long overdue...



I was also a little frustrated with the lack of army packs so I started buying the 1/72 scale armies put out by a company called Caesar. They're very high quality and have great poses. I already got some Italian and French infantry. Just need to buy some spray paint and you're all set.

This company sells them for low prices: http://www.scalehobbyist.com/
      
Sgt Storm
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Re:M44 questions Thu, 01 May 2014 18:17
francaises_libres wrote on Wed, 30 April 2014 14:47

questioneer wrote on Sun, 13 April 2014 13:26

.by the way while I'm on that rant...hope they make a minor nations army pack with Italians infantry and such...long overdue...



I was also a little frustrated with the lack of army packs so I started buying the 1/72 scale armies put out by a company called Caesar. They're very high quality and have great poses. I already got some Italian and French infantry. Just need to buy some spray paint and you're all set.

This company sells them for low prices: http://www.scalehobbyist.com/


I have the Caesar French infantry, partisans and resistance packs, but haven't painted them yet.

That site you linked looks good for soldiers, but they don't have much in 1/144 vehicles (mostly 1/72 and larger). Memoir is about 1/144. I've been meaning to pick up some German mobile artillery and Alled Tank Destroyer figures.
      
red_zebra
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Re:M44 questions Fri, 02 May 2014 16:34
The Last Square has Perrin

http://www.lastsquare.com/zen-cart/index.php?main_page=index &cPath=347_358

The War Store has Pendraken

http://www.thewarstore.com/Pendraken10mmWWII.html

Tank Destroyers
http://boardgamegeek.com/image/1483550/memoir-44-equipment-p ack

Mobile Artillery
http://boardgamegeek.com/image/1483551/memoir-44-equipment-p ack
      
Sgt Storm
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Re:M44 questions Fri, 02 May 2014 18:01
red_zebra wrote on Fri, 02 May 2014 10:34

The Last Square has Perrin

http://www.lastsquare.com/zen-cart/index.php?main_page=index &cPath=347_358

The War Store has Pendraken

http://www.thewarstore.com/Pendraken10mmWWII.html

Tank Destroyers
http://boardgamegeek.com/image/1483550/memoir-44-equipment-p ack

Mobile Artillery
http://boardgamegeek.com/image/1483551/memoir-44-equipment-p ack


I have the equipment pack, which unfortunately has German styled TDs and Priests for mobile artillery. A complete solution, which I desire, would have different styled units for each side IMO.
      
sam1812
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Re:M44 questions Sat, 03 May 2014 01:04
I find that simply taking off my glasses solves all problems of this sort quickly and inexpensively. Very Happy
      
Jeronimon
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Re:M44 questions Wed, 07 May 2014 20:40
Sam, get the dice out of your coffee, the sugar cubes are over there. Laughing
      
    
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