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Sysyphus - Pommard
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Your opinion about the different TTR maps Sun, 15 June 2014 06:48
Has anyone played any of the map not published online ? (India, Africa, Nordic, Marklin, Nederland).

If yes, what did you think about them ?

And generally, how would you rank all (including the ones online) the maps you know from the most interesting (competitionwise - skill involved) to the least interesting ?

I do not need a debate over tunnels in Europe, just a ranking !

Thanks for the input

[Updated on: Sun, 15 June 2014 06:48]

      
Hecki
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Re:Your opinion about the different TTR maps Sun, 15 June 2014 10:26
1. Europe
2. USA
3. Märklin
4. Asia
5. Swizzerland
6. Europe 1912
7. Germany
8. Africa
9. Nordic Countries
10. USA 1910 Big Cities
11. India
12. USA 1910 Megaspiel
13. USA 1910
14. Netherlands

[Updated on: Sun, 15 June 2014 13:38]

      
RUS Sivorro
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Re:Your opinion about the different TTR maps Sun, 15 June 2014 12:06
I'm not play all maps, but can rate some:

1. Europe
2. USA
3. Netherlands
4. Asia
5. Africa
6. Marklin
      
Requiem For A Dream
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Re:Your opinion about the different TTR maps Sun, 15 June 2014 12:10
1-USA




Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Razz Very Happy
      
GenuineFauxFarm
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Re:Your opinion about the different TTR maps Mon, 16 June 2014 01:09
1. Asia
2. US
3. Nordic
4. India
5. Big Cities
6. Switzerland
7. Africa
8. 1910 US
9. 1912 Europe
10. Europe
11. Mega US

Wish I had opportunities to try the team Asia map with people online. It has some real potential with skilled players.

Each game has to have time to mature the strategies for each. So, I hesitate to say any map is terrible until I feel I've played it enough with skilled players to say that there has been time to explore, develop and use new strategies. So, for example, I freely admit I haven't given Europe as much a chance as some of the others because it just hasn't caught my imagination. On the other hand, I've probably played more Nordic games offline than any other board game, so it may be inflated a little. I'm still exploring Mandala's in India and the Terrain cards in Africa. They both intrigue me, but I'm afraid I have not had the chance to play either very competitively. I've been playing some unranked 1910 US lately and am finding some interest there, but I'm still not so sure about it.

[Updated on: Mon, 16 June 2014 01:10]

      
Qorlas
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Re:Your opinion about the different TTR maps Mon, 16 June 2014 02:37
Europe
Marklin
Switzerland
Asia
USA
USA 1910 Big Cities

(large gulf here)

USA 1910 Mega
USA 1910
Netherlands


Cosnidering only the maps I played few times

[Updated on: Mon, 16 June 2014 02:38]

      
dandee
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Re:Your opinion about the different TTR maps Mon, 16 June 2014 09:24
1. Marklin
2. USA
3. Europe
4. Team Asia
5. Netherlands
6. Nordic Countries
7. Swizzerland
8. India
9. Africa
10. Germany
      
V a l
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Re:Your opinion about the different TTR maps Mon, 16 June 2014 13:43
I've played all but Africa.

Thou Nederlands and Märklin only in the Finnish championships, game or two.

Nordic was the one I started with my family. That was part of wedding gift from friends. Wife really liked it also, thou during the years she has also stated that sometimes seems I'm married to the game Wink

Nordic is great as 3er, thou after my 5-year-old defeated me, so I don't like to play that so much anymore Smile

Simple is great, so USA is the best. Games are really great as they evolve after the number of games played, as tactical knowledge between the players rises. I really have noticed that lately as I'm playing much less online than few years ago. Winning gets harder every day.

Europe is good. Yes luck has a factor, but in the big run I see luck equalizing in the games.

Asia has great potential on becoming the second after USA. Multi gaming suites well in Asia.

Swiss, mega, 1910 and BC every of those have too much luck factor or little window for variating your game.

I have India home at the moment. Haven't played too much yet, but it seems for for starters.

----------

1. USA
2. Asia
3. Europe
4. Nordic
5. BC
6. India
7. Swiss
8. Nederlands
9. 1910
10. Märklin
11. Mega

      
Sysyphus - Pommard
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Re:Your opinion about the different TTR maps Mon, 16 June 2014 15:43
Again talking about a competitive standpoint.
I think a map has more competitive depth when you can assess what you and your opponents are doing. If you can not tell if you're winning or not, or at least have an idea about it, nor you can weigh on the dynamic of a game, I'd say that there's less/no competitive interest.

Like Val, a clear top 3 :

1. USA
The most balanced, especially in 2ers and the most able to show patterns of skills

2. Asia
It offers several ways to win. The value of tracks and tickets is pretty well balanced. Works in multi and 2er. Great Map.

3. Europe
I like it in multi better, but can still show a pattern of skill in 2ers on a large range of games

Goodies
4. Big Cities
Though 6 black and start could be more crucial than in US. It just has less depth than US without bonus. Only in 2ers

5. Swiss/Nordic
Pretty similar gameplay. They are a bit too color-oriented. An opponent can be luckily blocked without any intent. Some tickets are too similar.

6. USA 1910
The starting idea is not bad. But when you start fiending, then it's over. If players were allowed to start with 2 tickets only, and to keep one only in each draw, that would be a slightly more interesting. Yet, does not compare with top 3 maps.

7. Mega
To play with your family, for fun. Roll the dice

The other maps
Africa
I like the terrain mecanism, you have to find the balance between terrain/tracks and tickets. Fiending is not very rewarded unless the whole table goes for fiending, but the color distribution is favoring the player alone on his side of the map.

India
It can be a butchery in multis due to the middle of map tightness. In 3/4 moves you can lock up the map. Kingmakering can happen : I killed your loop (Mandala) but not the one of another opponent.
Mecanism maybe more interesting in 2ers, but yet to be tested

Netherlands
If you can score 300 points, you can not assess if you're doing good or not. Like Mega, fiending is highly encouraged, and the bonus can barely compete with it.

Marklin/Deutschland
Never played any those 2.

[Updated on: Mon, 16 June 2014 16:31]

      
dandee
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Re:Your opinion about the different TTR maps Mon, 16 June 2014 18:28
Sysyphus - Pommard wrote on Mon, 16 June 2014 15:43

.

Marklin/Deutschland
Never played any those 2.


I think Marklin is perfect table game.
The inclusion of passenger balances the luck of the tix.

There are multiple ways to win.
      
AAA_dea1
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Re:Your opinion about the different TTR maps Mon, 16 June 2014 20:32
1) USA
maybe because it's the original and we have the best competition there?
maybe because "keep it straight forward and simple" is the best for a good game?
Don't know

2) Asia
really new and interesting concept that you can "shorten" the game for your opp by playing the "X" tracks
still a lot to discover here

3) Märklin
too bad that doesn't exist online
the passenger idea gives room for many different strategies - but can't really be explored at length on the board because the handling is clumsy and takes too much time

4) Europe
stations change the style of blocking - nice idea
Probably the best map to start with and/or for playing with "not so competitive" players (you still lose if you play badly but are spared the frustration of being blocked out of your destination completely)

5) Switzerland
structure of the map makes it good

6) 1910
Fiending is not my style, but if you like it, that's the map

7) BC
I like the "longbot style" - but if all players know it, it very much depends on tickets and who gets the blacks

Cool India
Maybe I didn't play it enough, but the concept with the loops didn't strike me that much

9) Nordic
nothing new but a looooooong tunnel

10) Mega
Too many options to develop real strategy - throw dice instead, that's faster

11) Germany
Märklin without passengers - why?

Don't know the others
      
GenuineFauxFarm
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Re:Your opinion about the different TTR maps Tue, 17 June 2014 17:01
Reading each of these posts is very interesting. Clearly, for most of these maps, it is highly dependent on exposure to the map with opponents that are also interested in developing playing style.

Guess I'd better give Europe a little more attention and see if I can overcome my feelings about it.

If I had to lobby DoW for an online game addition, I would still ask for Team Asia. But, you have to remember, in rural Iowa, you have to wade through acres of corn and soybeans before you can find another person to play a board game. And, it is really hard to carry a board game that far.

So - I'm just looking for a way to get to play that one a few times when I don't have to explain all the rules to people who may or may not have played ANY TTR game before.

Rob
GFF
      
Cromze - Pouilly-fumé
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Re:Your opinion about the different TTR maps Tue, 17 June 2014 18:21
Cool thread Smile

The tops :

1) USA
Simple, competitive, unflagging. The obvious number 1.

2) Europe
I started playing TTR with it (before playing online). I can join the tunnel bashing, but it's still my favorite for a sunday family board game. The difference of strength between big tickets (see Ed-Ath vs Pal-Mos) is a problem for serious competitive play, especially with 2ers. Yet I really enjoy Euro multis, some very interesting situations most of the time. Have to try 1912 !

3) Asia
I don't like playing it that much but it's objectively a good competitive map (more competitive than Europe imho). Many options and tactics are possible. The mountains are a great idea. But not fun enough for me : being blocked after 2 moves without having done anything doesn't entertain me. The Kobe area also is trashy, I never win with Omsk-Ko. Well I don't win a lot on this map, maybe that's why I underrate it Wink !

The good ones :

4) USA 1910
I like the idea of new tickets with the classic map. Problem is some tickets are just incredibly strong (see LA-Okla or Van-Duluth : Calgary-Pho now looks like crap).

5) BC
Not bad but without bonus it's like something is missing to build a strategy. Well I didn't played this variant a lot.

6) Switzerland
Too lazy to play it but I've already watched some very interesting games during Fusion. I guess I'll try it more seriously someday Wink

7) Nordic
I liked to discover this one but again the balance between tickets is weird (the big north-south tickets are very hard to do and not that much rewarded). The 9er is so good that you can take it whatever your tickets are = all the early games is a race for the 9er = too much repetitive.

The "why does it exist" ?

8 ) Mega
Not serious but still a fun variant.

9) Team Asia
The idea is great but it just doesn't work. Communication with your teammate is terrible and very frustrating. As you can't help talking everyone cheats and it makes no sense. Actually what A.R Moon tried to do here is discovering TAG... and TAG is soooo much better !

10) India
Didin't try it in multi but an evening of 2ers put the box on the bottom of the cupboard. Why did this map win the contest and not mine ??!!

Only tried Africa once, looked nice. Never tried the others. Reading this thread it seems I have to try Märklin !! Not sure if I'll try Germany and Netherlands !
      
Sysyphus - Pommard
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Re:Your opinion about the different TTR maps Tue, 17 June 2014 18:50
Thx for the input guys.
Indeed about team Asia : I wonder how much Alan R. Moon was inspired by the community and its tag system when designing this map. Alan Moon was incitating players on boardgamegeek to challenge top players online, so he had an eye on the community.

We've been playing in a way less restrictive way since 2006, allowing full communication between players (the advantadge of playing online). We are still promoting that mode of play during Fusion Cup.
Despite promoting Tag-team games, it's still hard to find partners even online. It is pretty time-consuming. Not sure it'd would work that well online.

As a side remark, Cromze and Val have designed TTR maps in the past and participated in the designing contest.
Cromze is also a game designer, trying to have one game published at the moment.
Hecki has a blog about boardgames in German.

[Updated on: Tue, 17 June 2014 18:51]

      
DrakeStorm
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Re:Your opinion about the different TTR maps Tue, 17 June 2014 22:31
Guess I should add my opinion, though alot depends on number of players, and any offline game is hard to judge since I think you need at least 20 games played to get a feel for it, and then need another 20 or more with good competition to be able to evaluate it.

Also just playing a 2-3 game match doesn't offset the luck of most maps.

1.) USA. Main reason is there are plenty of 6ers to go around, 1 in each color, there are alot of areas where you can make creative loops and get longest, and no tunnels or ferrys required to set a player back 1 or more turns.

Good 2P and Multi. Only stagnant part in 2P is almost always drawing face down and only fiending on last turn. Doesn't make it bad, just a little repetitive. In multi, you really have to know the opponents play style in terms of blocking to succeed.

2.) Swiss. Having only 2 6ers and no 5ers, and no wilds, makes this game very interesting. Ticket choice is important, and allows for more bluffing than USA since it is easier to block. Also requires you to draw face up more to get the colors you need.

Good 2P, not very good 3P. In 3P its hard to end the game before one of the other 2 players has begun to fiend heavily, and then it turns into a luck fest. Also in 3 player if 2 players are in the same area, the 3rd player has a big advantage.

3.) Europe. Hard to win without keeping big ticket or small tickets matching up well. Also Locos play a big roll. Still, having longest as a bonus adds skill that newer maps don't have.

Good 2P and Multi. Having stations makes multi decent with a good mix of going for longest, fiending, drawing face up. Only problem in multi is getting weak tickets and not being able to get a 6er or the 8er to make up for it.

4.) Asia. Newest online map, so still things to learn. Decent 2P, but I think there is a power gap between big tickets, more so than in Europe, and easier to get blocked (on purpose and on accident).

Good 2P, doesn't seem very good multi, but I could be wrong.

5.) Big Cities. 6 Black is important, but you can win without it. Alot depends on colors and how your tickets match up to opponents.

Decent 2P, probably bad Multi.

6.) 1910. Is actually not too bad 2P. Sure sometimes a player can get 3 tickets that go together, and the 15 point bonus kills you (not sure why it wasn't just 10 points!), but most of the time its better to just keep 2 and both players tie for the bonus.

Decent 2P, not as good multi because the game usually doesn't end fast enough before 1 player starts to fiend, and if they get lucky you can't do much to stop it.

7.) Mega. It is not that much worse than the others, but can easily hinge on initial tickets.

Decent 2P, and multi isn't that bad since so many tickets to fiend for, you always have options (rather than in USA multi where you can just draw dead tickets alot).

Offline Games - haven't played any of them enough to have an educated opinion.

Europe 1912 - Seemed pretty good. Actually would be nice if DoW added the tickets to online (without the Depots). Some of the Big tickets in 1912 are better than others just like regular Europe, but playing Mega Europe might minimize bad ticket combos.

Marklin - The passengers add something, but not sure if it makes the game better. Having a good mix of tickets and train routes is more important (and I haven't played enough to know if Marklin has that).

India - Might be good 2P, my 2 games of multi seemed kinda lucky.

Africa - The terrain cards are interesting, but don't think it adds much. Need more plays.

Nordic - Didn't seem that great.

Netherlands - Too random with big tickets and the bonus.
      
Mr Bean
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Re:Your opinion about the different TTR maps Tue, 24 June 2014 19:01
1. USA
2. Switzerland
3.
4.
5.Europe Twisted Evil
      
    
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